User talk:129.105.4.169

Facts of opinion
Do you know the Wikipedia policies? Facts of opinion are neutral points of view. It is a fact of opinion that Michael Jordan is widely considered the greatest... because it is a FACT that he is considered by all major, credible and expert sources the greatest. That is the whole point to fact of opinion. Try reading the discussion page. This is the same as can be seen on Wayne Gretzky's page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.105.4.169 (talk)
 * You don't need to make the argument to me. I agree with you. The consensus on the current wording was reached during the featured article discussion. There is no currently consensus to change it. --Onorem♠Dil 17:14, 18 January 2008 (UTC)


 * You don't reach a "consensus" on Wikipedia policies.. It's not people's opinions that decide it.  You obey Wikipedia policies.  They're already set principles.  Feel free to try to change the policy on facts of opinion at its actual discussion page, not on an article.  Stating his description any other way in fact makes it a less informative and less accurate article, and understates the person's historical importance.--129.105.4.169 (talk) 17:22, 18 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Consensus is a Wikipedia policy. There is nothing "wrong" with the way the wording was. I won't revert you again, but I'm guessing your version won't stick around very long without more people being convinced on the talk page. --Onorem♠Dil 17:30, 18 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Facts of opinion is an overruling policy. Why?  Because it's a FACT.  "Consensus" is OPINION.  And I don't know how they would be convinced, what with the complete lack of a valid argument being made against him being the greatest...--129.105.4.169 (talk) 17:33, 18 January 2008 (UTC)


 * My apologies if you've linked to it on the talk page discussion somewhere. Could you give me a link to the "Facts of opinion" policy page?
 * Side note: During a request for comment in June, it looked like a suggestion was made that nobody objected to.
 * Groovyman suggested the following wording:
 * The NBA calls Jordan "greatest basketball player of all time."1 He has been named the basketball athlete of the century 2 34and is regarded as the "greatest player who ever lived" by many sportswriters5, players6, and coaches7.
 * Maybe that could be a starting place for the current discussion, or maybe it's time for another WP:RFC. --Onorem♠Dil 17:43, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

That looks like a good argument to make on the talk page. I almost cut/pasted it there myself on your behalf. I still think there are some stubborn editors who are going to fight hard against this one. --Onorem♠Dil 18:03, 18 January 2008 (UTC)