User talk:14.228.243.14

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Happy editing! --Donald Trung (talk) 06:40, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

Elysée accords
Note that I specified ratification as the accords didn't get into effect until February 1950 and the ceremony officially ending the protectorate also occurred in 1950. They were only signed in 1949 and the local government already ended in 1948, this is why "1948 (1950)" is a better date. The signing of the accords didn't end the protectorate as the French parliament needed to ratify it (December 1949) and the French President needed to ratify it as well to go into effect (2 February 1950), this is why I used the ratification date. Just like the protectorate didn't get established until 1884, because the 1883 treaty was rejected by the French. --Donald Trung (talk) 06:40, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * This is intriguing. I'll look it up. I find non-communist primary sources in Vietnamese celebrated, and later, annually commemorated the date of Elysée Accords, so I thought this date would be authoritative enough. 14.228.243.14 (talk) 08:02, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Well, yes of course they're going to celebrate it as the signing marked the end of the protectorate in Annam and Tonkin, but a law could be passed today and go into effect next year, the monumental thing being that the law was enacted in 2023 but we can only say that it's effective from 2024. But if historians generally consider the 1949 date to be the symbolic (rather than de jure) end of the protectorate to be the end date of the protectorate then 1949 would be a better date. Communist Vietnamese historians usually maintain March 1945 as the end of the protectorates as they don't recognise any actions by the French after this date other than being "reactionary" against the revolution. The Nguyễn Dynasty unilaterally itself relinquished these treaties following the Japanese coup d'état but the French tried enforcing them as late as 1949. But then again, the Infoboxes also currently use 1883 as the start date of the French protectorates of Annam and Tonkin, but the Harmand Treaty wasn't ratified and the Binh Thuan Province was also never annexed by the French either, so the 1883 was never legally enforceable and Vietnamese historians usually see 1884 as the true beginning of the Pháp thuoc. -- — Donald Trung (talk) 08:11, 13 April 2023 (UTC)