User talk:172

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''No complex project can be expected to yield satisfactory results without a clear vision of what the goal is – and here I mean what a worthy internet encyclopedia actually looks like – and a plan to reach that goal, which will include a careful inventory of the needed skills and knowledge and some meaningful measures of progress. That vision of the goal must do something that Wikipedia and Wikipedians steadfastly decline to do today, and that is to consider seriously the user, the reader. What is the user meant to take away from the experience of consulting a Wikipedia article? The most candid defenders of the encyclopedia today confess that it cannot be trusted to impart correct information but can serve as a starting-point for research. By this they seem to mean that it supplies some links and some useful search terms to plug into Google. This is not much. It is a great shame that some excellent work – and there is some – is rendered suspect both by the ideologically required openness of the process and by association with much distinctly not excellent work that is accorded equal standing by that same ideology. One simple fact that must be accepted as the basis for any intellectual work is that truth – whatever definition of that word you may subscribe to – is not democratically determined. And another is that talent, whether for soccer or for exposition, is not equally distributed across the population, while a robust confidence is one's own views apparently is. If there is a systemic bias in Wikipedia, it is to have ignored so far these inescapable facts.'' Robert McHenry taken from User talk:Adam Carr Full article

Notes

Hey
It's *very* nice to see your name again. :) SlimVirgin  talk| contribs 22:55, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * It is nice to see you. I won't quibble about whether 172 is a name, exactly. >-;

Sovereign state
welcome back! Look, you need to read the article Sovereign state and all the talk on the talk page to understand where the opposition to your edits is coming from. I am not sure I agree with them, but they are actingin good faith and you better understand why and appreciate that fact. Slrubenstein  |  Talk 10:26, 8 July 2009 (UTC) How about changing the name of "Sovereign state" to "State (political)?" At least then we would be following the conventions of actual political anthropologists and political sociologists. Slrubenstein  |  Talk 16:38, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I have reverted page State to its former use as a disambig page. See previous discussion in Talk:Sovereign state. If you want that decision to be re-discussed, I will start another formal move request discussion. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 12:55, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I think the best solution is to merge the current article with a better one. Any merge will atract some controversy, the solution is to make the destination page (the new article) so clearly superior. My advice to you is to solicit a partnership with JohnK. Discuss what kind of State(polity) would do justice to the title. I have very little to offer and I will offer all of it in a subpage to my userpage, just hang on. Anyway, create a subpage to your user page and work on a superior article, I really urge doing this hand in hand with John K. Make sure it complies to the letter with NPOV, NOR and V, and make sure that it is well-written and scholarly. Then propose the merge and pray that people see the logic in merging an inferior article into a superior article. Slrubenstein  |  Talk 18:28, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Okay, this is the best I can offer you and I need to take a break:User:Slrubenstein/Hey 172!!.

My advice is to mull over this a few days and perhaps discuss it with John Kenney, I ask only that each of you think about it for a few days before any action. Then go ahead and make whatever changes you wish to the outline, and start writing. When he two of youhave an article you are both poud of I will comment on it. When it is clearly far superior, we for a merge. Slrubenstein  |  Talk 19:19, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Content dispute of Russian Constitutional Crisis of 1993
Hlleo, I just wanted to inform you of the discussion posted at Wikipedia's noticeboard regarding the edits you and User:Miacek have disputed. This link will take you to the discussion where you may wish to submit your opinion and reasoning to counter Miacek's argument. During this dispute, it would benefit both of you not to edit the disputed article so as to keep your names in the clear. --  ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ  τ ¢  19:46, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

File:BigStick.jpg
Hi. Might you be able to add some info (eg description, date, source, anything else useful) to File:BigStick.jpg which you uploaded years ago? Thanks much. Cheers, -- Infrogmation (talk) 03:10, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

FYI
I thnk someone with your understanding of politics ought to participate in this discussion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Advisory_Council_on_Project_Development. Slrubenstein  |  Talk 13:50, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

File:Ukraineworkersb041126.jpg listed for deletion
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Welcome back
I do hope you find the material I left for you useful.

On another note: I am leaving this message at talkpages a fairly random sample of people who oftn edit policy pages. You care about good content, and policies, so perhaps you can make a constructive contribution here: wp:Areas for Reform? I created this project after an acrimoneous RfC. So far it seems to be working as a way to channel constructive an focused analysis of specific problems, and potential solutions. Few have your commitment to a great enxyxlopedia, and experience with the various challenges in sustaining an ongoing open collaboration. I really hope you will "watch" this and pick one or teo areas near and dear to your heart to try to work on. Slrubenstein  |  Talk

the state
Hey, did you ever read over the material I laid out for you - content as well as ideas for organization of an article? Any feedback? Slrubenstein  |  Talk 17:15, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Indefinitely blocked
Checkuser evidence has shown that you are the same person as User:Cognition, who has been banned since 2006. As a result, you have been blocked indefinitely. If you wish to appeal this block, please email the Arbitration Committee at. Hers fold  (t/a/c) 23:12, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
 * This is absolutely ridiculous. 172, who was a Wikipedia administrator whose account goes back to before Wikipedia was 2 years old, had written much of Wikipedia's historical content in its earlier years. He was also involved in blocking pro-LaRouche editors. Cognition, a very pro-LaRouche nutter, is a banned user, whose point of view contrasts with 172's. This is impossible. -J 216.241.55.204 (talk) 04:42, 5 September 2009 (UTC)


 * See discussion here. SlimVirgin  talk| contribs 04:52, 5 September 2009 (UTC)


 * It is my belief that the account is compromised, because this seems impossible. If they are the same person, then Cognition would be a sockpuppet of 172, right? And why would 172 create that account anyway? So that he can have someone to paint LaRouche followers as lunatics? What?


 * Also, I use an IP address which is used by many computers as well. My ISP provides residential and public computer services at casinos, and it uses the same IP address. Could this be the case? Because the majority of contributions listed as made by this IP address are not mine... -J 216.241.55.204 (talk) 05:01, 5 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I suspect we'll find either that 172's account was compromised, or that the accounts in question were using public computers, though CU indicates otherwise. A number of people are looking into this, so I'm sure it'll get sorted. SlimVirgin  talk| contribs 06:33, 5 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Check user is not infallible. "A number of people" who believe this are not considering the potential for errors with the system. -J. 216.241.55.204 (talk) 07:27, 5 September 2009 (UTC)


 * A point:
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&dir=prev&target=Cognition says that Cognition's first edit is 01:27, 29 June 2005 File:Kantportrait.JPG
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&dir=prev&target=172 says that 172's first edit is 09:46, 23 December 2002 User talk:172
 * I do not see how User:Cognition can have created User:172 as a sockpuppet. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 08:22, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
 * True. But 172, an anti-Lyndon LaRouche editor, could have created Cognition as a pro-LaRouche stalking horse in order to discredit other editors with similar points of view.  Whatever the case, they edit from two IPs, one of which is obviously shared with a number of unrelated editors, and one of which appears by every available test to be a residence.  Even if this IP really is shared as well, be aware that there are at least 4 accounts involved, not just Cognition and 172, and consider whether it is likely Cognition, 172, Mrs. Breedlove and Tha-HGIsrqNA would all, just by coincidence, 1) work at the same employer, 2) frequent the same coffee shop or library, and 3) never edit from their own residence.  Also, check the times of day that the accounts edit; is it plausible that none of these accounts has a home internet connection and every edit made by these 4 accounts is made from a workplace or public access point?  Whatever the case, either the account has been engaged in long term deception, or Cognition hacked into 172's account, or 172 hacked into Cognition's account.  Either way, indefinite blocking is appropriate pending a satisfactory explanation, if it ever comes. Thatcher 12:33, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Odd that I forgot it last year, but it is known that when 172 started in 2002 (and you probably know this, too), he was an AOL client with the IP addresses from the 172. ... block, hence his username of course (he listed those on his userpage). If the addresses ascertained in August, 2009 (User:172, Cognition and co) where still of of the same block of AOL, the sock puppetry accusation would seem more plausible. If the provider had changed, we might consider that the account was hijacked by Cognition. (I noticed today an edit by an AOL user to an article in my watchlist, and this remined me of the 172 affair). Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (t) 15:46, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Please contact ArbCom
To clarify: this account has been blocked pending confirmation that this account has not been compromised and is not otherwise involved in abusive editing. User:172 should contact at earliest possible convenience. Cool Hand Luke 23:09, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

A Conspiracy
I am a long-time watcher of Wikipedia and other Wikis and I look at this case with great interest. Particularly users of extremist viewpoints are ones I have monitored most closely. What I will note is that some are saying this case of dual identity is unrealistic because they see Marxism and the ideology of Lyndon LaRouche as somehow polar opposites. Obviously this is not the case; for the first decades of his career in politics LaRouche was a Marxist if an unorthodox one, and during the period in which he shed the Marxist jargon the content of his ideas went nearly unchanged. We can note that LaRouche has in recent years attacked Karl Marx himself in somewhat severe terms as a British dupe (albeit possibly a well-intentioned one), but LaRouche has always from the 1970s until even recent weeks exalted the writings of Marxist Rosa Luxemburg in the highest possible terms: http://www.larouchepac.com/node/11296

LaRouche as an economist begins from a Marxist perspective, but unlike the Marxists does not imagine finance capital as merely being confined to a historical process. Rosa Luxemburg's writings surpass and supplant those of V.I. Lenin on the topic of imperialism through her understanding that capital can only thrive through constant exploitation of "primitive" pre-industrial economies and the steady surplus advantage this provides the exploiters. Luxemburg however posits that during this process of exploitation, these "primitive" economies themselves industrialize (a process we have seen occur in the cases of China and India), leaving the entire world in the mode of industrial production, upsetting the prior power balance whereby imperialism could occur, and effectively ending it. Luxemburg may be forgiven for not understanding that the forces of the accumulation of capital themselves could look ahead through this process and attempt to thwart it so that their advantage may be maintained.

LaRouche, for all of his faults which clearly are a great many, is the only economist starting from the perspective of Rosa Luxemburg who understands the process through which imperialism may continue to prosper through thwarting and even reversing industrial progress itself, a progress which Luxemburg assumed could only steadily advance over time. Certainly we can note that various policies taken against the nations of sub-Saharan Africa have prevented the development of even basic industrial infrastructure in that region; conversely we can note that the United States and Britain have themselves largely de-industrialized. The United States presently has a smaller manufacturing sector than it did 65 years ago when its population was a third of its present size. Largely but not entirely this has occurred through the impositions of phoney environmentalist movements, some of which (like the World Wildlife Fund) are not terribly subtle about the British imperial role they play.

This is a bit beside the point regarding the case at hand of the user 172, however. For those that monitor other Wikis, we may note a promulgation of extremist political speech occurring on many of them. I would like to point attention here to the Wiki Encyclopedia Dramatica, notorious home to a great deal of pornography and hate speech.

One of the most notorious users on this site maintains something very suspicious on his user page. (I am unable to link to this due to what appears to be a server block, but I am speaking of User:Cardinal_Contarini on encyclopediadramatica.com.)

"I am a historian focusing on international political economy."

One can note that here on Wikipedia, 172 identifies himself in exactly identical language. We can also note that this Cardinal_Contarini, responsible for the now-infamous "Madoff dollar bill" ("symbolizing our entire fraudulent Jew-controlled debt/monetary financial system"), makes edits over his user history to pages on that server regarding Lyndon LaRouche ("the most successful long-term economic forecaster on the planet, and correctly predicted the 2008 financial crisis") and even Chip Berlet, and engages in among the most severe anti-Semitic attacks seen across the entire internet (a difficult act to accomplish) but particularly focusing on a certain historical narrative of Jewish financial control. We would all do well to re-read Marx's "On The Jewish Question." Through charting certain sequences we can note that certain "memes" originating from this user have already influenced less "satirical" anti-Semites operating on the internet.

I doubt any of you observing this case understand at all what's actually happening. One Who Watches (talk) 17:56, 10 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I, for one, am totally confused. Can you shed any more light on it? SlimVirgin  talk| contribs 05:41, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

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I'm Sorry
I'm sorry for getting mad at you a while back.

CJK (talk) 23:06, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

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