User talk:173.191.172.135

March 2023
Please do not remove content or templates from pages on Wikipedia, as you did to Lumbee, without giving a valid reason for the removal in the edit summary. Your content removal does not appear to be constructive and has been reverted. If you only meant to make a test edit, please use the sandbox for that. Thank you. Sundayclose (talk) 01:14, 14 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Sundayclose, being cited is not a very good rationale for inclusion of all things, right? It is actually a case of stuff existing. If it says they eat pizza, would that merit inclusion in an article on the people? Cornbread and collards are eaten by Southerners in general. It's not a Lumbee thing that stands apart. Someone shoehorned that in but not because it is truly descriptive of the Lumbee.
 * I stand by the removal as an improvement to the article. It was constructive as were my other edits. To suggest that my removal was nonconstructive is an assumption of bad faith. You also used a template that states that I didn't leave a valid edit summary for the removal but I clearly wrote "this is not culturally distinct" and it isn't.173.191.172.135 (talk) 13:59, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
 * You're wrong that your edit should remain as you made it. A food can be part of more than one cultural group. In this case, "Southerners" is a distinct cultural group from "Lumbees", just as Cherokee is a distinct cultural group from Caucasians. They have different histories, different cultural norms, and different historical languages, not to mention different racial identities. Your pizza example is absurd. Pizza, of Italian origin, has become so widespread that it is no longer associated exclusively with Italian heritage. The foods mentioned in the information you removed are not nearly as widespread. And the article clearly states that the cuisine "intersects with Southern cuisine", so there is no attempt to claim that the foods are exclusively Lumbee. You can "stand by" your edit here, just don't remove it from Lumbee again. Sundayclose (talk) 16:05, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Sundayclose, that is a terrible analogy. Lumbees are Southerners generally. They wouldn't identify otherwise. They eat Southern food. The two groups are not exclusive of one another whereas the Caucasian and Cherokee are exclusive of each other. Try telling a Lumbee that they aren't Southern.


 * You got one out of four right and that is the different racial identity. I can tell that you know nothing of the Lumbee because they have never had their own language and they do have Southern cultural norms but nothing distinct.


 * You didn't seem to acknowledge that my edit was made in good faith because I thought it improved the article. I stand by my edit that it was constructive which is what I meant by standing by. Calling the pizza comment absurd once again puts you at maligning my comments in bad faith. Chicken and dumplings, cornbread, collard greens, fatback and chow-chow are normal Southern cuisine and are widespread. I personally don't add fatback to things but I grew up with the rest of it. My point there is that all of this except maybe sandwiching the collards together is widespread throughout North Carolina. They adopted Southern food. My pizza comment means everyone eats it but I am in North Carolina so my way of looking at the cuisine section of the article is in exactly the same way. This is stuff everyone eats in NC except fatback. Some add that. Your ridicule of my pizza comment is a fairly bad way of following up on impugning one's motives.


 * My previous edit on another IP was reverted as "non-constructive". Do you agree with that? I'm trying to determine between constructive and non-constructive here. If I'm being non-constructive when making these edits then I would like to understand that.173.191.172.135 (talk) 17:58, 18 March 2023 (UTC)


 * In case this isn't evident, I removed the section because they don't have a particular cuisine that is notable as it is non-distinct from other Southern cuisine. Having a whole section called "Cuisine" just to get the collard/cornbread sandwich mentioned is lame and disingenuous to the reader. Looks like cruft. Readers don't really learn anything from it. If they moved it toward the article review process, it would likely be stripped wouldn't it? Or do you think that section would be in a featured article?173.191.172.135 (talk) 18:46, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
 * No more absurd than your pizza analogy. Just don't remove it from the article again. I'm finished here. There's no point in my wasting my time messaging someone who refuses to listen to what I say. Don't ping me again. If you're tempted to ignore that request consider it a warning and read WP:HARASS. If I want to read any of your comments I'll decide myself to come here, but that's very unlikely. Sundayclose (talk) 19:13, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I didn't say it was absurd, I said that it was a terrible analogy because it doesn't work. My pizza comment is an analogy that does work but I can see that you don't have the temperament for what you are doing and continue to IDHT what I've been telling you. You seem to be the one trying to escalate and exacerbate with a failure to acknowledge any wrongdoing on your part and without the desire to discuss the article content which is what I was trying to do. I only removed it once and have not reverted anyone at all. You keep telling me hands off but I haven't done anything except asking you why or why not is the edit considered nonconstructive. I don't get your hostility except that you seem to not have logical replies to my questions so you seem angry about that. I'm not harassing you. You started this above on this talk page by leaving me a message. I just noticed that it is a level 2 warning. Did my other edits that precede the section removal look like I was up to no good such as to warrant a level 2 section blanking and then all of this hostility?173.191.172.135 (talk) 20:06, 18 March 2023 (UTC)