User talk:2001:8F8:1473:7A9F:1992:CDB1:A094:8A64

December 2023
Hello, I'm Sungodtemple. I noticed that you recently removed content from Coptic Catholic Church without adequately explaining why. In the future, it would be helpful to others if you described your changes to Wikipedia with an accurate edit summary. If this was a mistake, don't worry; the removed content has been restored. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks. Sungodtemple (talk &#8226; contribs) 22:52, 15 December 2023 (UTC)


 * @Sungodtemple the content that I have removed was because it was misinformation and the citation to it was irrelevant. Also, the dates were wrong and that should have been obvious considering that this is in AD, not BCE. And it is also because no pope in the history of the Coptic Orthodox church of Alexandria ever submitted to Rome. Please remove the content I have initially removed as it is false. Thank you. 2001:8F8:1473:7A9F:1992:CDB1:A094:8A64 (talk) 16:36, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Sungodtemple also the dates were 1714-1442, which, once again makes no sense as this would be going back in time as it is in AD. thank you once again. 2001:8F8:1473:7A9F:1992:CDB1:A094:8A64 (talk) 16:38, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Sungodtemple sorry meant 1713*** 2001:8F8:1473:7A9F:1992:CDB1:A094:8A64 (talk) 16:47, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Saying 'misinformation' is a very aggressive claim to make. That is why I reverted your edit. Reading the sentence more carefully, it seems there were two separate proposed unions, one in 1442 and one in 1713. The sentence structure could be tweaked to be more easily read. Sungodtemple (talk &#8226; contribs) 23:46, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Sungodtemple It is misinformation. once again I'll repeat, no coptic orthodox patriarch ever submitted to Rome. This is misinformation based on misinformation from another wiki site. It may be "two separate proposed unions" as you have said, which is different from what the page says, and the page says, that the coptic Orthodox patriarch submitted to Rome (again???). Again, that is false. 2001:8F8:1473:7A9F:A9FF:BD5A:8C9C:181B (talk) 23:20, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Are you talking about this? It seems to be valid, since it is from Wikisource, which is really just copying and pasting free texts onto a wiki. The page on there says:
 * "... have had a vicar Apostolic since 1781. Before that (in 1442 and again in 1713) the Coptic patriarch had submitted to Rome, but in neither case was the union of long duration. As the number of Catholics of this Rite has increased very considerably of late years, Leo XIII in 1895 restored the Uniat patriarchate. The patriarch lives at Cairo and rules over about 20,000 Catholic Copts. 4. Uniat Abyssinian Church"
 * By the way, thank you for discussing this rather than edit warring. Sungodtemple (talk &#8226; contribs) 23:28, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Sungodtemple Yeah that's what I am referring to, it's not true. There has been no coptic orthodox pope (patriarch) who has submitted to Rome at all. Perhaps if a name was mentioned it would have allowed more room for discussion, but there isn't. As far as I have known the only presence of coptic catholics goes back to that one bishop (I don't recall his name) who became catholic and started his own coptic church under Rome, but later on converted back to (coptic) oriental orthodoxy. Thank you. 2001:8F8:1473:124E:A9FF:BD5A:8C9C:181B (talk) 17:42, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
 * WP:Verifiability, not truth. Is there a reliable source that backs up your statement? Otherwise the original text should stand. Sungodtemple (talk &#8226; contribs) 18:04, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Sungodtemple During 1442 AD, the Patriarch was John XI of Alexandria, 89th Pope. During 1713 AD, the Patriarch was John XVI of Alexandria, was the 103rd Pope. The burden of proof lies on you to provide a 'reliable' source to back up the claim that there was ever a coptic pope that submitted to Rome. Because that wiki site used as evidence does not itself cite where it got this from. These are ahistorical claims, no such thing that is being claimed ever happened. Infact, there is barely any information regarding both of those coptic patriarchs as they had very little influence historically. The claim that there was ever a coptic pope after the schism between the non-Chalcedonian and the Chalcedonian church is hearsay it seems. if these popes infact did what is being claimed there would have definitely been more information regarding them as this would be a big event. I'm not trying to switch the question up on you but another wiki site isn't proof 2001:8F8:1473:124E:A9FF:BD5A:8C9C:181B (talk) 18:51, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Sungodtemple also I just rechecked the source, it even has information missing right before this claim. 2001:8F8:1473:124E:A9FF:BD5A:8C9C:181B (talk) 18:53, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Checking Wikisource, it is taken from Catholic Encyclopedia (1913). It seems to be fine? There is no information missing before the claim, probably just a page break. Sungodtemple (talk &#8226; contribs) 21:50, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Sungodtemple I don't know about you but there is for me. And if so, the catholic Encyclopedia is wrong. There's no proof of a coptic patriarch submitting to Rome and converting back. Can you provide me with a historical source outside of the catholic Encyclopedia? Because once again, there is no reliable evidence of any patriarch of the coptic Orthodox church ever doing this, we know slim to none about them infact 2001:8F8:1473:124E:719A:EC09:54B7:321F (talk) 10:22, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I ask the same question to you. I see nothing wrong with using the Catholic Encyclopedia as a source. Sungodtemple (talk &#8226; contribs) 12:50, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Sungodtemple The catholic Encyclopedia isn't a reliable source, it's outdated (1913) and there are later more updated versions that released later on. It doesn't say where it got this information from to make such a claim. And, it would obviously be biased towards the catholic side of things, as the coptic Orthodox church is apart of the Oriental orthodox communion and both sects see the other as false. So once again, if you can provide me with a different source that actually supports this notion, it would be great. Thank you. 2001:8F8:1473:124E:719A:EC09:54B7:321F (talk) 15:18, 19 December 2023 (UTC)