User talk:2601:645:8300:C6D0:8012:C538:AE56:7EBC

questionable moves by editors
@El C I don't know why things that I wrote to you such as @willondon called me names and nit picked and made up rules and reverted edits -- this was the real destructive editing, my belief is that they were trying to make it difficult for new content to be created. Please look into that. My notes on that were taking down @SpinningCeres as well. I think that the editors were working together (especially with one IP) and making things up such as "the source has to say Burke's" when I don't think that's a hard and fast rule. This was not collaborative, and it wasn't me. Please take a close look at what happened with this and if there's a further appeal, please have other editors look at it closely. @Twsabin Please go in and review and look closely at the content that you collapsed for conciseness. I don't agree. There's copy that was ready to be looked at just as this page was intended. I invited other editors to build consensus. I was creating -- not flooding. Please ask for more opinions and look closely at the text. It's arguable @willondon was blocking legitimate work with concern about content being made big and saying that altered their comments. It didn't. They slowed down work and then blocked me and any consensus. From the terminology (KDBS) it's possible @Willondon is involved with the school. I don't want to accuse since that's an acronym, but it was also called that for short and the alum magazine was named Kay-De-Bee for many years until Burke's became the branding pretty recently. My suspicion is that @willondon is invested with the school and the user hasn't said they are not. Please look at the edits and the work should speak for itself. Silencing is never particularly productive and that's what people were asking for. "Listen quietly" but no one else was adding. They were only subtracting. And of the secondary sources most DID mention Burke's so I believe @SpinningCeres criticism in invalid and there's a record of that in the talk with the sources. So since I was working hard on this; please put in the effort to see what happened in the past week. Thanks. It's also possible that there are lawyers working on this as I think through the language and especially comments to "the record." I was threatened with being reporting by @spinningceres -- and that has been more blocking and less lawyering, but @willondon pointed me in the direction of Wikilawyering and it would not surprise me if this was someone's counsel. Wiki editors @twsabin please look at it with that possibility.

I am going to post the content that was ready to be discussed here so that it's still available and you can see the amount of copy and real Wikipedia style editing that's being suppressed:

Sections to reinstate to the Katherine Delmar Burke's page
Here is the copy that I believe should be reinstated:

Accounting for inflation from the 1980s tuition of around $5,000, Burke's would be about 11,000 today. That's the cost of one competitor Notre Dame des Victoires[1] and other parochial schools that have also had a long history in San Francisco. The other independent schools in the California Association of Independent Schools have increased more and are in the $40,000 to $50,000/annual tuition. Burke's gave out $1.9 million in financial aid in the last tax year.

The calculation was removed by the same user who removed most material and did not respond to my invitation to participate in talk yesterday. The calculation is NOT original research by Wikipedia standards. Feedback is welcome

Potentially new content
Girls' schools

The 2004 Mean Girls film popularized a notion that most alumnae of all-girls schools know too well: girl-based bullying. Since then the phrase has been part of the discussion around Burke's as shown in the alumnae reviews posted online as well as in novels. This bullying as described in the parent training can also become part of the parent culture, and in some cases the alumnae parents.

As the damage of bullying in childhood gets understood more (long-term chronic damage), there's also attention on how mothers can do the same things within independent schools and that's what can keep bullying so cyclical in a school environment -- it's being reinforced by parents. Miss Porter's school was infamous when there was a "mean girls lawsuit" covered in Vanity Fair and the key aspect is that alumnae moms would encourage the bullying on campus by a sanctioned group. The Mean Girls film was also planned to be made into a sequel around 2015 called Mean Moms that would have starred Jennifer Aniston.

Managing parents is left with the head of school along with other administrators who are at least aware of if they are "loyals" who have donated for the past nine years. Since the head is also tasked with crisis and managing parents, the skills to push back can become essential in this environment. Otherwise the balance of power is off for the head of school as has been shown during the COVID19 pandemic when private schools re-opened in many cases earlier than public schools. This drew more national attention to the private-public school divide; and Burke's has represented private school in San Francisco for more than a century so it's been in contrast with the nearby public schools like Alamo Elementary and Presidio Middle School.

Potential new content

Since Burke's was one of the only private schools in early 1900s San Francisco, its graduates have formed a portion of the city's elite society since the start. There are pictures in the book about Pacific Heights of old families whose children (known as scions) are now students at Burke's. Many "Burke's girls" each year are debutantes and everyone is invited to learn to dance at the MidWeeklies (now in its sixtieth year) with the other private schools in the network. [1][2]

"This is the little-known world of the MidWeeklies, an invitation-only dance school for sixth- and seventh-graders. The event marks an important steppingstone in a San Francisco social education, the path to etiquette classes, the Cotillion and eventually to the exclusive Francisca and Pacific-Union clubs," states a San Francisco Chronicle piece from 2011.

Mid-weeklies are described as looking like this, from the article, "On a spring afternoon outside the California Club, San Francisco society arrives for an evening affair. Expensive cars pull up to the curb, releasing taffeta-clad ladies in 1-inch heels and white gloves, gentlemen in bow ties and cuff links. The oldest is 13."

This is a lesser-seen side of San Francisco, but Burke's girls have been part of it from the start and it's a way to socialize with boys from the "brother school" Town or the other boys schools.

Here is the background from the Chronicle story:

"The schools whose rosters are used as invitation mailing lists have denied any association with it. Yet for eight nights during the academic year, 400 private-school children in the sixth and seventh grades gather at San Francisco's California Club for the invitation-only dance classes.

Everything about the MidWeeklies - its exclusivity and 80-year history, its arcane dress code and wedding-style invitations, the way people shuffle and flinch when its name arises - seems from another era."

This forms a small world among the San Francisco private school graduates. There is also notable movement of teachers within the independent schools (they don't offer pensions as rewards for staying like the public school). Later these alumnae may meet again at the Olympic Club or the Metropolitan Club (the once women's equivalent of the Olympic Club when it was all male). The annual Burke's luncheon is at the Metropolitan Club and often there are lineages of women who have gone to the school through the decades as well as past teachers and staff. The school's alumnae magazine also prominently features these alumnae and staff gatherings where there is a photographer known for society functions.

The recent job posting for a Associate Director of Advancement to handle alumnae affairs shows the shift in recent years towards fundraising. This position as recently as 2016 was the Director of Annual Giving and Alumnae and wasn't directly in charge of a group of donors as the next position will be. These donors may be "loyals" which is also referenced in the magazine and the web site whose gifts in fact keep the school going. This allows for a rich history with traditional families. It can also make for an isolating experience for those from a different background.

Parents and alumnae communities

Burke's alumnae newsletter as far back as 2012 listed the number of students of alumnae who were at the school, and then the number was 15. With the competition steep to get into kindergarten, alumnae are known to have an advantage, especially if they are also loyals. This creates a system where some families keep the school in business. Head of Schools need to please these families especially and admissions watches out for them as they are known to ensure the survival of the school.

The pressure of private school parents has grown as the tuition has increased. A 2016 article "Parents Who Bully" by the National Association of Independent School's Independent Magazine describes how frustrated or entitled parents can create issues in a school environment. This describes the parents as three types that can cause victimization in teachers. The types are called: The Righteous Crusader, the Entitled Intimidator, and the Vicious Gossip.

A Harvard professor of education termed the phrase "Volvo Caucus" for the area that the gossiping will occur and the malice of the rumors will become bullying by adults. Parents lobbying like this for changes in independent schools is now against the National Association Independent School best practices, an organization that oversees Burke's accreditation and aims to be the voice of independent schools nationwide.

Another similarity of many small independent schools is they share the same attorney at Folger Levin firm in San Francisco.[3] The school list includes Burke's, Hamlin's, University High School, Branson High School, and also recently an attorney of theirs was quoted for Sonoma Academy.[4]

The San Francisco independent schools will have events together often Burke's-Town School for Boys (sister-brother schools) or Burke's-Town-Hamlin's-Stuart Hall. In the 1980s, these schools had four school play days at the Burke's campus with its sports equipment. Now they alumnae clubs will hold events that keep a small circle of people in contact over the decades.

Another one of the competitor schools is Sacred Heart Convent school for girls whose student high school newspaper recently had a piece on toxic friendships in the small, elite girls' school environment, "Toxic Friendships diminish self esteem."[5] These issues are similar to Burke's that hosts many speakers in to discuss friendships of the issues around privilege (such as Madeline Levine).

Where I was when blocked
Just getting info on Madeline Levine speaking at Burke's.

Text from web site: Great Girls Deserve Great Schools Symposium The Great Girls Deserve Great Schools Symposium was started by Burke's alumna Doris Fisher '49 in the early 2000s to bring prominent educators from around the United States to campus to speak about the challenges of teaching girls in our modern society. Recent guests have included Tim Wise (pictured), a well-known speaker on racism and inequality, Jennifer Bryan, an expert on gender and identity development in children, and Madeline Levine, Ph.D., bestselling author of The Price of Privilege. https://www.burkes.org/support/events

My defense
This is creating content -- not flooding -- in fact I had just collapsed the intensive tutorial in the exact hierarchy of the talk page given to me by @willondon and the critique of sources that were in fact very good to point to consensus. My work was legit and my contribution constructive. Please look at this as suppressing new content. Also see where the conversation towards the end was going before there was a block made. @Twsabin

New section
The social milieu of Burke's is also described in the book "Oh the Glory of it All," by Sean Wilsey. When the books was published in 2005 Armistead Maupin, the famed writer of Tales from the City, said there was it was like a dark cloud hung over Pacific Heights.

The New York Times in 2005 stated that the fallout in Pacific Heights was thought to be huge. The book features the Mid-Weeklies and Wilsey dances with a Burke's girl at one point. His stepmother Dede Wilsey's lawyers put a claim in to the publisher but the book went ahead and was published anyways, and was one of the first non-fiction books about this part of San Francisco society. (Dede Wilsey is also involved with Burke's and appears in pictures and in donations having to do with the school.) She was also involved in a scandal after the book publication and around the time she became involved with Burke's and she stepped down from a position as President of the Fine Arts Museum.

This points to the insularity of the upper crust in San Francisco, also noted by Vanity Fair in a story that featured Wilsey's son Todd Traina prominently. This group of people -- Folger, Traina -- have also traditionally sent their girls to Burke's and some for generations. The school's alumnae magazine often shows lineages and is proud of that traditional aspect of the school.

My objections stated
copied from talk page. all to @willondon

@willondon another point is: Do not bite the newcomers: If someone does something against custom, assume it was an unwitting mistake; gently point out their mistake (referencing relevant policies and guidelines) and suggest a better approach. Also fifth pillar. I think you're edits are stricter than the conception in Wikipedia pillars. I also believe that you're being too rigid in the code you're telling me. I'm not looking to join a cult; just to add to this page and to be available to discuss material and edits. I've written copy at the end that has responded to your criticisms. If it's constructive, that's great. I believe the order of commenting is nit picky since it can be understood and you're being a little too critical.2601:645:8300:C6D0:9097:AB7E:6821:8D97 (talk) 16:29, 11 February 2022 (UTC) I am answering under the question I wrote. I am asking for other comments to build consensus. Not answering after the question would be more confusing to follow. Please chill on these edits. Competency about verifiability is more important.2601:645:8300:C6D0:9097:AB7E:6821:8D97 (talk) 16:31, 11 February 2022 (UTC) Please see how these real areas that consensus is needed broke down into nit picking without my doing anything really. I will make more of an effort to not make it look like you said anything, but when the rules are flexible, this level of detail is distracting and adding to the mess.2601:645:8300:C6D0:9097:AB7E:6821:8D97 (talk) 16:33, 11 February 2022 (UTC)@willanon

From Wikilawyering
@Twsabin Wikipedia policies and procedures should be interpreted with common sense to achieve the purpose of the policy, or help with dispute resolution. Typically, wikilawyering raises procedural or evidentiary points in a manner analogous to that used in formal legal proceedings, often using ill-founded legal reasoning. It can serve to evade an issue or obstruct the crafting of a workable solution.

As another example, the three-revert rule is intended to prevent edit warring. An editor who reverts the same article three times day after day is violating the spirit, if not the letter, of the rule, and can thus be sanctioned for edit warring.

Please consider this -- I did not revert any text. Also @willondon went in and inserted a mistake in making it up-stander rather then one word upstander. These were minor and actually not improvements.

The sprit of Wikipedia was violated by others -- please pay attention to that.