User talk:28bytes/Archive 19

DYK for M Network
The DYK project (nominate) 00:03, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

ANI
28bytes - I disagree with your closure of this ANI thread. Canvassing is very much a topic for administrator attention and I have seen NorthAmerican1000 spamming that ARS tag on many articles that have no chance of saving. I think what needs to happen is that NA1K needs to be banned from using the rescue template. I would like it if you would reopen the thread.--v/r - TP 14:55, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
 * You have my blessing if you wish to reopen it. I think an RfC would be much more appropriate for a general ARS discussion (and it appeared to have turned into be a general ARS discussion when I closed it), but if you want to propose a sanction for a specific editor, that's certainly a reasonable thing to do at AN/I, IMO. 28bytes (talk) 15:04, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I don't have the time now but later today I'll gather the diffs and present open the thread.--v/r - TP 15:07, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Sounds good. 28bytes (talk) 15:11, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry, just saw your note at SG's page after I redid the archiving; incidentally I posted this query Wikipedia_talk:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents last Sunday, and will probably RFC the thing if discussion doesn't start soon. Nobody Ent 15:47, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
 * No problem. Whatever you, Salvio, TParis, et al decide on the closing/archiving is fine with me. Re your question on WT:ANI, my answer is "closer discretion"; if there's an official guide somewhere I'm not aware of it. Prior to becoming an admin I'd hat some AN/I conversations and simply close others, and nothing I got in the secret Admin Orientation Package™ suggested I should do things differently. 28bytes (talk) 16:02, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
 * You can find it in your "So you want to join the cabal" guidebook on page 9 paragraph 4.2.--v/r - TP 18:31, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
 * It doesn't seem that the diffs I've provided have helped to outline the problem of canvassing and the need for administrative action to deal with it. The topic seems to be focused on the meta-discussion over ARS itself and the use of the template than on the actions of the user I was concerned with.  If you still feel it should be closed, feel free.  I've made my point.--v/r - TP 02:07, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, anything touching on ARS will tend to get overwhelmed with pro- and anti-ARS discussion. I'll leave it for another admin to close, but thanks for the note. 28bytes (talk) 02:11, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

excuse me Doctor ...
cough cough — Ched : ?  04:48, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
 * LOL, am I the resident AN/I thread closer now? 28bytes (talk) 04:53, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
 * 28bytes, AICD (ANI Doctor) :) . Reading your ANI closes, it seems that there's no reason for anyone to dispute it.Jasper Deng (talk) 04:54, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
 * :-) ... well, you and Jayron do seem to do the bulk of it lately. IJS. — Ched : ?  04:57, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

want text of removed article
I was in the process of updating an entry to coincide with a company name change and before I could finish it was deleted. the entry was 'Blackwater Watch' which I was changing to 'Academi Watch'. can you please either restore the entry so I can finish updating it or sendme the text so I can create a new entry? thank you. Cstalberg (talk) 12:35, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅. Check your e-mail. 28bytes (talk) 15:58, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
 * sorry to bother you again but my email address changed. I have updated it now. can u please resend that entry. thank you so much! Cstalberg (talk) 22:37, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
 * No problem. Re-sent. 28bytes (talk) 23:18, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

My first attempted close
I decided that I was going to try to close a proposal. This was my first try and I just have the feeling that it wasn't perfect.Jasper Deng (talk) 05:25, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Looks like a reasonable enough close to me. 28bytes (talk) 05:28, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Of course, though, this is much easier than ANI closes...Jasper Deng (talk) 05:31, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, those can be tricky. If I were you I'd stay focused on content building... you've got a great start with those DYKs, don't get distracted by the "meta" stuff. 28bytes (talk) 05:34, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Agreed, wholly. Been taking a break from major edits because of life issues, but I've been doing copy-editing lately. Wasn't as hard as I thought it was.Jasper Deng (talk) 05:35, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, copy editing is a great way to contribute... there are always plenty of articles in dire need of it. 28bytes (talk) 05:39, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Prophet (company) article
Dear 28bytes,

I posted this article in the mainspace last week and would greatly appreciate it if you could please review it when you have a chance. I also could use your help in an administrative capacity. While creating this article I inadvertently created another version, which I am unable to locate (see the top of the posted article while in Edit mode - there appear to be references to the earlier version there). I intended it to be a draft on my sub-page but something went awry. If you can please remove the earlier version, that would be wonderful. Thank you!Braedon Farr (talk) 13:26, 17 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Hi Braedon. I'd be happy to help locate the earlier version, but I don't see anything in your contributions (either live or deleted) that points to another copy of the article. The only thing I see is a redirect to it here, which I can delete if you like. As for reviewing it, unfortunately I won't have time to do that this week, but there are plenty of new page patrollers around, so I'm confident someone will give it a review before too long. 28bytes (talk) 18:09, 17 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Thank you very much for checking! Yes, I suppose it would be best to delete the redirect. (That must have been what I was seeing while in Edit mode.) If you could please do that, I would be grateful. Thanks again!Braedon Farr (talk) 12:23, 24 January 2012 (UTC)


 * ✅. 28bytes (talk) 14:43, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you!Braedon Farr (talk) 11:43, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Hi, why can't i become an admin? Is it because I don't have enough experience?
I'm a new user, but I'm pretty enthusiastic to learn, and I feel I have a lot to contribute. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Veritas77777 (talk • contribs) 20:56, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi Veritas77777. It's great that you have enthusiasm, and I'm sure you have a lot to contribute! There are plenty of ways to contribute without admin tools, though, and adminship is not for new users. The community generally likes to see about a year and a few thousand edits before granting the admin tools. 28bytes (talk) 21:05, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm the guy who helped you make the article on IRC, remember? We appreciate that you feel you have a lot to contribute and will not stop you with that, but I'm afraid you're right, you need more experience to be granted administratorship. Normally, you need at least a year, if not more's editing, regular activity, and a demonstration to have understood all our policies. We can't really give the mop to somebody who may delete the wrong pages, protect the wrong pages or block the wrong people. We're not saying you will, but it is a precaution we must take. See also WP:NOTNOW and WP:RFAADVICE. You're welcome to try again in six months perhaps though, after some hard work.  Rcsprinter  (chat)  21:06, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

You've joined the exclusive club...
...of users who made entries in Recent Changes during the blackout. You are entitled to display this userbox, along with a handful or two of other admins!Jasper Deng (talk) 05:19, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Heh. Someone fussed at me on meta for it. Blackouts are serious business! 28bytes (talk) 05:21, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
 * ...as are revdeletes, especially those made for copyvios.Jasper Deng (talk) 05:23, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I'm reading a detailed thread at WP:AN about it right now. With a table and everything! Fascinating the level of effort people put into analyzing such things. 28bytes (talk) 05:30, 19 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Me too.  Eagles   24/7  (C)  19:28, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I was wondering why you didn't get a message at meta like the rest of us outlaws. Looks like you got hunted down at Commons instead. Is B jonas on the WMF staff, or just a concerned citizen, I wonder? 28bytes (talk) 19:33, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
 * The latter, I believe.  Eagles   24/7  (C)  19:55, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

nice to see you made it ..


congrats... — Ched : ?  05:55, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you sir! Glad to be back. The blackout gave me some time to make my first ever edits to Wikiquote and Wiktionary, among other things. Two new word entries and a quote page, not too bad for a day's work! 28bytes (talk) 06:04, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Just opened 2 ANI threads
They seem to be non-controversial enough. However no-one with the mop is responding to them.Jasper Deng (talk) 06:00, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Patience, my friend. :) Also: it's not really that urgent if blocked trolls are trolling on their own talk pages. Someone will shut them down sooner or later. I think that's what Beeblebrox was trying to convey with his suggestions on your talk page. 28bytes (talk) 06:28, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
 * The 1st was asking for CU and other measures. The second was because this guy was not posting unblock requests (not auto-reporting themselves).Jasper Deng (talk) 06:30, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Ping :)
Steven and I are going to switch out the 28bot templates today (probably in the next hour or so), if you're cool with that. Will reply here again once we've made the change! Maryana (WMF) (talk) 19:11, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Sounds good. You can test the changes by doing this to any page that has "28bytes" anywhere in the title. The bot will revert and leave a user talk page message. 28bytes (talk) 19:16, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I should add that it will take the bot a few minutes to notice your edit. :) It pulls the recent change list in batches, not in real time. 28bytes (talk) 19:37, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
 * ... and now I'm eagerly awaiting my warning :D Maryana (WMF) (talk) 19:44, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh wait. Duh. I was logged in, and I have tons of previous edits that aren't tests. Time to log out and do some "anonymous" test editing.... Maryana (WMF) (talk) 20:07, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
 * It should have picked it up regardless; I'm not sure why it's so slow today. You can drop a test edit on any of my sandbox pages (User:28bytes/bt1 would work) as an IP though, to see if that gets picked up quicker. 28bytes (talk) 20:08, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, done making the switch. We're testing out the new messages in Steven's sandbox, and they seem to work just fine. We'll keep an eye on the bot to make sure it doesn't do anything weird; please lemme know if you spot any irregularities. I still haven't gotten a warning, but maybe it's just being slow today... SOPA lag? :) Maryana (WMF) (talk) 21:20, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the update. I don't know why the bot's not warning you, but I expect its processing rate is just not keeping pace with the recent change influx today. I'll take a look at its logs when I get home tonight and see what the trouble is/was. 28bytes (talk) 21:24, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Looks like I'm having some bandwidth issues with my ISP. The bot did issue one warning, though. 28bytes (talk) 16:31, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
 * A thought (completely up to you of course, no pressure): if it would make your life a little easier, you could move the bot to WM Labs. If you're interested, you should talk to User:Petrb (who helped migrate CluebotNG to Labs) and email User:Ryan Lane (WMF), the Foundation ops guy in charge of the project. They'd both be happy to have another bot op on board. Maryana (WMF) (talk) 19:41, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm intrigued! It would be nice not to be at the mercy of my ISP. 28bytes (talk) 19:48, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Tooth Protectors
— HJ Mitchell &#124;  Penny for your thoughts?  00:03, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

ANI closure; Dream Focus
That's a relief. Oddly, I managed to edit the closed version without getting an edit conflict. If you feel like tidying up further, Dream Focus has an "on-hold' unblock request pending the result of the ANI review. pablo 16:06, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Good point. I'll go deal with that now. 28bytes (talk) 16:09, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅. (Let me know your secret for avoiding edit conflicts; I got two of them trying to close that monstrosity.) 28bytes (talk) 16:14, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

It's a mystery to me - it had the white background when I started editing it, then the buff one once I had saved. Possibly because I was just editing one section of the monster but I don't really know how the conflict handler works. pablo 16:23, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

I was not aware of the action against Dream, an editor I had repeatedly raised concerns about when I brought up ARS on ANI. Personally, I find the notion of it being merely humorous to be a bit charitable. Have you looked over Dream's userpage? Here are some choice sections: 1 2 3. Some of those entries are old (there is one that is just about a year old), but they all remain right there on Dream's userpage despite two separate deletion discussions where people raised concerns about material like that. The second discussion is particularly notable given that in addition to many delete votes there were quite a few keep votes who called on Dream to remove the WP:POLEMIC attacks on "deletionists" (I put it in quotes as Dream seems to think all opponents are deletionists). I think that user should be more clearly compelled by some means to remove such material. At the very least there should be a warning left telling Dream to remove that kind of material, after the block ends naturally.--The Devil&#39;s Advocate (talk) 16:50, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, MfD is always available should you wish to compel him to remove some or all of his userpage. (Of course, it would be best to wait until his block expires before initiating one, so that we don't have to ferry all his comments from his talk page over to the discussion page.) 28bytes (talk) 16:54, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

'ACF Car Finance' - new article
Hi there

I have today produced my first article to inform people about 'ACF Car Finance', a motor retail company. Unfortunately it was deleted as it was deemed there was a conflict of interest. Please could you place a copy of that article content on my user page (drafts), in order that I can make any necessary changes and submit it for a proofread?

Many thanks,

Jane — Preceding unsigned comment added by JaneW ACF (talk • contribs) 15:27, 27 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Hi Jane. The article has not yet been deleted... it's still at ACF Car Finance. You can request at the deletion discussion here that it be moved to your user space if the consensus is to delete it. Alternatively, if the company has received coverage in third-party sources, you can list those sources at the deletion discussion; if there is sufficient coverage, the article may be kept. 28bytes (talk) 15:37, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Requests for comment/F&aelig;
A request for comments has been opened on administrator User:F&aelig;. You are being notified due to your prior participation in ANI, RfA, or RfC discussions regarding this user. Thank you, MadmanBot (talk) 19:37, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

hmm...
I commented on your oxide table idea at Oxide's talk page. ←TCO


 * Quite a necrobump, that! Looked like the enthusiasm for such a table was fairly mild, but I'm happy to help with the formatting and whatnot if there's a feeling over there that some sort of oxygen-compound table would be useful. I'll re-watchlist it for a while and see what develops. 28bytes (talk) 05:59, 29 January 2012 (UTC)


 * I like the two rows under look. Um...and blackboards, not whiteboards.  I actually think a sortable wikitable would be more use.  although am very intrigued by the look of a periodic table.  Like the table of quality is fasinating.TCO (talk) 06:09, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Your statement in closing my ban discussion
I made no effort to defend myself in those discussions and I likely didn't even read all of the comments made, but your closing statement makes reference to violations of WP:OUTING, which I don't believe were part of the discussion. User:Ash self-identified here several times. Fæ is quite open about their identity and their role with WMUK. The connection between the accounts has been openly discussed at ANI, well before I re-opened the RFC/U. When pressed to make the connection between the two accounts, I deferred to ArbCom, but they declined to be of any use whatsoever. In making the connection between the two accounts, I deliberately avoided revealing any more information than was necessary. I chose my example carefully to avoid unnecessarily directing people to information which might prove embarrassing to Fæ. I have taken care not to violate WP:OUTING here. I don't expect you to change your closure statement or your opinion, I'm simply letting you know that I was surprised by your statements. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 03:14, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, I must disagree that WP:OUTING violations weren't part of the discussion; the title for the ban proposal itself was "harassment and outing", and several editors, including Crazytales, WereSpielChequers and Sceptre, explicitly referenced or linked to the policy in their support for the ban. 28bytes (talk) 03:36, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

FYI
 Eagles   24/7  (C)  18:25, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the heads-up. 28bytes (talk) 18:26, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Facts and good will
Some time ago we exchanged that you and I agree that BarkingMoon was not Rlevse. Now look at BarkingMoon, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:00, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the heads-up. To clarify, I have no idea whether BarkingMoon is/was Rlevse. I'm not a checkuser and have had little if any contact with BarkingMoon, and have not investigated their contributions. But I have raised your concern at WP:AN. 28bytes (talk) 18:33, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
 * BarkingMoon is a student/family member/associate, or something like that. Hurricanefan25  ( talk  ·  contribs ) 20:02, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I spoke up one more time, now here. I am convinced that replaying old stories is a waste of time, looking at more important issues. Please have a look if that is clear or if it needs "translation" from German. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:13, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, I think your English was perfectly clear. :) We're in a bit of a conundrum here, since the closing admin of the ban discussion stated there is consensus that Rlevse should not be community banned, but should be indefinitely blocked, which is something I don't believe I've seen before. It doesn't really point to a good way forward. 28bytes (talk) 08:20, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you! What's a conundrum, please? My suggestion: block Rlevse, unblock PumpkinSky, leave BarkingMoon alone. That is certainly easier said than done. We had another discussion recently where I said: if this is the result of the rules, the rules have to be questioned, they are no holy scriptures. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:44, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
 * conundrum; I was using it in the "difficult question" sense, in that it's not clear what the solution to this situation is. Your suggestion is perfectly reasonable but it's not clear to me that he wishes to continue editing as PumpkinSky. I've not spoken to him, so I don't really know what his intentions are. If his intentions are to abandon the PumpkinSky account and start another (disclosed or not), there would be little point in unblocking PumpkinSky. If it were me, I would continue with the PumpkinSky account, but perhaps he's not willing to edit from an account that's tied to his previous one. He's got a lot to offer the project, but he simply can't go picking fights with Raul654 et al under the pretense of being a new user. If he's willing to do things "by the books" I would be happy to help him do that. 28bytes (talk) 08:54, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you, sounds good to me, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:18, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

idk much anymore .. but, ...
you may want to ping Raul on that AN thread. I hadn't seen anything new, and I still strongly believe that BM and Rlevse were not the same editor; unfortunately while I might be able avoid any outright "outing", my moral integrity doesn't allow me to violate some confidence and privacy issues. — Ched : ?  18:40, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I've pinged him (thanks for the reminder.) As I told Gerda, I'm not a checkuser; nor am I privy to any of the e-mails from BarkingMoon or Rlevse, so I would be a right idiot to stick my neck out asserting they are or are not the same person. 28bytes (talk) 18:50, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
 * (Forgive me changing your response, but it's my name, smile.) I don't want to see your neck in danger, don't expect you to assert, just to raise awareness that there is reason for doubt, stress on reason - which seems to be lacking in some discussions I observe, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:53, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Apologies for the misspelling. :) I think you were right to bring this up. Whether the tagging was correct I don't know but I think it's better to discuss such things when there are good-faith doubts about it. 28bytes (talk) 20:59, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I am also quite amazed by this list of productivity, 560 articles touched within half a year, which deserves attention and more checkers. I was involved in 29 and checked them off, what I read is "good, constructive, helpful, gnoming" --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:25, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Rlevse
I don't know what the rules are on posting emails, though as a general principle I don't think private messages should be posted publicly. I'd presume that PumkinSky/Rlevse has implicitly consented by posting them. I don't see what benefit there is to making them public, but this is an unusual circumstance and I guess I can see how it'd be helpful to post them to end speculation or misrepresentation. Unfortunately, they were posted in a scrambled form. In any case, you have my permission.  Will Beback   talk    05:14, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the reply, and the permission. I agree that posting them in the first place was a terrible idea on his part, but since people are discussing their contents it didn't seem right to keep non-admins in the dark unless you objected. (Non-admins who don't read WR, that is. I did see Cla68's post there.) Anyway, thanks again, I will undelete them shortly. 28bytes (talk) 05:23, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

MSU Interview
Dear 28bytes,

My name is Jonathan Obar user:Jaobar, I'm a professor in the College of Communication Arts and Sciences at Michigan State University and a Teaching Fellow with the Wikimedia Foundation's Education Program. This semester I've been running a little experiment at MSU, a class where we teach students about becoming Wikipedia administrators. Not a lot is known about your community, and our students (who are fascinated by wiki-culture by the way!) want to learn how you do what you do, and why you do it. A while back I proposed this idea (the class) to the community HERE, were it was met mainly with positive feedback. Anyhow, I'd like my students to speak with a few administrators to get a sense of admin experiences, training, motivations, likes, dislikes, etc. We were wondering if you'd be interested in speaking with one of our students.

So a few things about the interviews:
 * Interviews will last between 15 and 30 minutes.
 * Interviews can be conducted over skype (preferred), IRC or email. (You choose the form of communication based upon your comfort level, time, etc.)
 * All interviews will be completely anonymous, meaning that you (real name and/or pseudonym) will never be identified in any of our materials, unless you give the interviewer permission to do so.
 * All interviews will be completely voluntary. You are under no obligation to say yes to an interview, and can say no and stop or leave the interview at any time.
 * The entire interview process is being overseen by MSU's institutional review board (ethics review). This means that all questions have been approved by the university and all students have been trained how to conduct interviews ethically and properly.

Bottom line is that we really need your help, and would really appreciate the opportunity to speak with you. If interested, please send me an email at obar@msu.edu (to maintain anonymity) and I will add your name to my offline contact list. If you feel comfortable doing so, you can post your name HERE instead.

If you have questions or concerns at any time, feel free to email me at obar@msu.edu. I will be more than happy to speak with you.

Thanks in advance for your help. We have a lot to learn from you.

Sincerely,

Jonathan Obar --Jaobar (talk) 18:01, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

Deleted image File:SDS Sigma 5.jpg
I received notice that the above image was subject to speedy deletion because of possible terms-of-use problems. Unfortunately when I took a look to see about correcting the problem I found out that "speedy" meant "pretty much immediate." I can't seem to find where I got the image from originally. I recall puzzling for a while about terms of use. Could you recover the metadata I uploaded with the image so I can take a look at it? Thanks. (This request was previously sent to another administrator who hasn't replied).

Oops, sorry. Peter Flass (talk) 18:52, 10 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Hi Peter. I posted that info on your talk page earlier today, please check there and see if that's what you needed. 28bytes (talk) 18:53, 10 February 2012 (UTC)