User talk:28bytes/Archive 7

ANI thread
I see you are back. Can you please help out at WP:Administrators' Noticeboard/Incidents (the thread Lionelt invited me to earlier)?Jasper Deng (talk) 03:13, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Hi Jasper. I've read that thread, but so far no admins have posted in it, so I'd prefer to let an admin comment there before adding any non-admin comments of my own. If none do, it's a safe bet they don't feel any action is needed at this time. 28bytes (talk) 03:17, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Then I need help on an RfC.Jasper Deng (talk) 03:20, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Jasper, why are you canvassing this ANI thread all over Wikipedia? It will be dealt with, please be patient.  Eagles   24/7  (C)  03:22, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I mean, people have been giving attention to other threads. Or, the thread can be removed as stale. 28bytes and Lionelt were helping me on this thread too.Jasper Deng (talk) 03:24, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
 * What RfC? 28bytes (talk) 03:24, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Creating an RfC for the thread.Jasper Deng (talk) 03:25, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't think you need to worry about an RfC. Let Lionelt do that if he wants to initiate one. 28bytes (talk) 03:28, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
 * In view of Eagles' comment above, I don't think RfC is necessary.Jasper Deng (talk) 03:28, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Good. Sounds like we're all on the same page, then. 28bytes (talk) 03:30, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

clarification ;)
Hi. Note that I created this account the day before. This was per an email discussion. I'm insisting that the restrictions be lifted and that will include a legit alt account or two that will be disclosed privately to an arb. Barong 03:44, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the clarification. (And glad to see that your GoodBye was a brief one.) Too bad you can't use User:Gold Hat, I thought that was a fine name for an account. (Although this guy does look like he's wearing one, so I guess that's the next best thing.) 28bytes (talk) 03:52, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
 * There's always to possibility of a developer resetting the password for me and returning the old accounts. I asked for them to be unblocked primarily to remove the Mark of Cain. This is the core issue, here (ok, there). They called it 'a road back', with an expectation of 'a return to unrestricted editing'. Bzzt. As an institution, the AC has no honour. Barong 04:16, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Jasper
Just a courtesy - User_talk:Jasper_Deng. I may have gone over the top with my comment to him, and it is almost certainly irrelevant as far as the article itself was concerned, but the principle stands. He has made another rash judgement, I am sorry to say. - Sitush (talk) 01:30, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the courtesy note. I'll follow up on Jasper's page. 28bytes (talk) 01:33, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry about imposing. I'll never be suitable as a mentor, so kudos to you for taking on such a role. - Sitush (talk) 02:06, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
 * No problem, feel free to ping me if there's an issue again. 28bytes (talk) 02:11, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

User:Silent Billy
This user blanked ANI and I rolled it back (I'm watching that page). He did not explain it. I need guidance on how to deal with this.Jasper Deng (talk) 02:31, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
 * As luck would have it, I also happened to be watching AN/I a few days ago when someone blanked it. I reverted the blanking (as you did today) but didn't leave the user a message. You can see what happened next here. Remember, AGF, right? 28bytes (talk) 02:34, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes. Turned out to be an editing test or bug this time.Jasper Deng (talk) 02:35, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Yep, that happens occasionally. In general, when an established editor blanks a page like that, you can usually assume it's an accident unless you have a reason to think it's not. Good job with the quick revert, though! I had tried reverting it myself but I saw that you'd beaten me to it. 28bytes (talk) 02:37, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Discussing it on my own talk page right now.Jasper Deng (talk) 02:40, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

Reply - Hope it helps!
 S ven M anguard  Wha?  01:21, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

Question
What do I do if I'm mentioned in an ANI thread that didn't involve me initially?Jasper Deng (talk) 04:51, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Is this a hypothetical question? I don't see any mention of you on AN/I currently. In general, I'd say just pay attention to what's being said but don't feel like you need to chime in just because you're mentioned. 28bytes (talk) 05:56, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
 * This is a hypothetical situation.Jasper Deng (talk) 17:31, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

How am I doing?
I've become involved in a content dispute with two other users. See User talk:Fountainviewkid and Talk:Southern Adventist University.Jasper Deng (talk) 04:24, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Wow. That's a lot of text. It's going to take me a while to sift through all that. 28bytes (talk) 04:26, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
 * OK, I've read (almost) all of that. How exactly do you fit into the dispute? 28bytes (talk) 05:37, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't support either side. However, we are having trouble reaching consensus.Jasper Deng (talk) 16:51, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
 * My advice would be to step away from that particular dispute, as I don't believe you're especially well-versed with the underlying content issues. I've seen you drop in a few links to policy pages (e.g. WP:BLP, which really doesn't apply in this situation as Cottrell has been dead for over 7 years), but without familiarity with and understanding of the specific subject matter, it's going to be very difficult to help build consensus. Probably best to let someone else step in to help with consensus-building in this case. 28bytes (talk) 20:21, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Thank you. But this brings up another question: How do I tell if I'm going to work well in a particular content dispute?Jasper Deng (talk) 23:14, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
 * To be honest, I don't do a lot of dispute resolution myself, so you might be better off asking someone who does. I can say that familiarity with the topic under dispute is quite often beneficial. The best people to help resolve a dispute are those who are both knowledgeable and neutral, and that combination can often be hard to find. My suggestion would be to watch – but not participate in – dispute resolution forums, to get an idea of how other people approach it. If you have any questions about why a particular action was taken, you can ask either me or Kansan to see if we can explain it. 28bytes (talk) 23:24, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

ARB/Clarification
, I was enjoying being 'socked' by an arbitrator. pablo 20:12, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Heh. 28bytes (talk) 20:16, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Feedback
Hi 28. If you have a moment, I  would appreciate your feedback  on  this. Thanks. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 04:28, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
 * First impression: very well done. Extremely comprehensive and well-thought out. I'll give it another pass tomorrow and see if there's any more specific feedback I can offer. 28bytes (talk) 04:36, 16 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your time 28. Don't hesitate to  put any suggestions on  its talk  page. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 05:12, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

Help
See User talk:Eagles247.Jasper Deng (talk) 04:37, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Looks like it's already been revdeleted or oversighted, so it's likely already being handled by the admin who did that. 28bytes (talk) 04:39, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
 * So tell me: When is ANI useful for things like this?Jasper Deng (talk) 04:40, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I didn't see what the edit was before it was hidden, but if it appeared to be a serious threat of violence, then you should follow the instructions in the ANI edit notice rather than post it any place. 28bytes (talk) 04:43, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
 * It was a death threat, but, per WP:DENY I'm removing the diff from Eagles' talk page.Jasper Deng (talk) 04:44, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Another user has e-mailed the WMF. Nothin to worry about. — G FOLEY   F OUR  — 04:58, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks Gfoley4. 28bytes (talk) 05:00, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

Shake it up
How to fix it? I moved the origional article and copy and pasted the TV show. I thought that the TV show would be of more interst to the readers. -- Tyw7  (☎ Contact me! •  Contributions ) 15:39, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I was trying to be bold. DIdn't think that there would be much impact as I thought the old article is of minor importance ie I never heard of it. -- Tyw7  (☎ Contact me! •  Contributions ) 15:43, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

User talk:76.249.20.3
Were you reffering to me on the i.d. user about trouble logging in still(?) And just to let you know, i learned my lesson on category: Rock songs. More then one person uses this laptop, and go to wikipedia to edit. So i wasnt the one who added the category rock songs to just what i needed. If i wanted to do that, i would just log in. And if your wondering why i still log-in even though i said im leaving is because i like to check the watchlist. Take care! MajorHawke (talk) 01:49, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Hi MajorHawke. Yup, I thought that might be you on the IP; I thought you might be having trouble with your browser staying logged in. Anyway, nobody said you should leave, we'd just like you follow the rules about sourcing and not fiddle around with genres and categories so much. 28bytes (talk) 01:59, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Edit filter
Are you going to be doing the honours for Jimbo with that one, or shall I start a new one? -- zzuuzz (talk) 19:14, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Just created one actually, testing it out for false positives now. 28bytes (talk) 19:16, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
 * created, set to disallow. Feel free to tweak it; I'll keep an eye on it and see if it's catching any FPs. 28bytes (talk) 19:19, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Sledgehammer-nut, but effective. Perhaps something more targeted rather than the general namespace would suffice for now. I foresee many long term issues (template user warnings?) -- zzuuzz (talk) 19:37, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Yep, I went for the quick-and-dirty method for now. I saw it caught one false positive so I left a message on that guy's talk page about it. Not sure if we'd want to necessarily limit it to just Jimbo's pages, but certainly some refinement would be welcome. 28bytes (talk) 19:40, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

BAGBot: Your bot request 28bot
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WP:RFA2011
Task Force news: Recent updates include basic minor changes and condensing at the main  page, additional  comments on  the main  page talk  page, a new project  sub  page and talk for Radical Alternatives, and messages at Task force talk. A current priority is to reach suggested criteria/tasks for clerks, and then to establish a local consensus vis-à-vis clerking. Please remember to keep  all  the project  and its talk  pages on  your watchlist. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 03:31, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

Messages
I prefer not to use these, but seeing as everyone's flocking to my talk page... -- Σ ☭ ★  22:28, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

What to do?
How do I deal with this?Jasper Deng (talk) 18:38, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Let it be. 28bytes (talk) 18:39, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Yep. Walking away is often the best thing if you want to defuse a situation. Good luck, and thanks to 28bytes, Drmies (talk) 19:02, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

ANI follow up
Thanks for your invention with regard to Pangurban1, hopefully things will settle down. I just wanted to point out, in fairness to Jasper Deng, that you're mistaken with regards to [] -- the "unsolicited advice" comment was directed at me, not him. Gerardw (talk) 19:32, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah, apologies. I misread the indentation in that thread (there were a lot of comments from Jasper in there.) I'll clear that up with Jasper. Thanks for the correction. 28bytes (talk) 20:08, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

WP:DTTR
Some editors have called this a stupid policy (see my thread at WP:Village pump (proposals)). Can you explain what's going on?Jasper Deng (talk) 19:08, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
 * (talkpage stalker) As per the large warning box at the top of the page, WP:DTTR is not any kind of policy, and don't be misled into thinking it is. It's a personal essay by one editor giving their own view of the matter, and is very definitely neither a Wikipedia policy nor even a guideline. A lot—possibly a majority—of editors vehemently disagree with it, on the grounds that "regulars" are those least likely to take offence at a semi-automated message, whilst with good-faith newcomers it's often more appropriate to leave a personal response explaining the problem than to leave a template message. The arguments against the DTTR mentality are probably best summarised here. – iridescent  19:20, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Hi Jasper. To add to what Iridescent said, I think a better way to look at it is this: there are times when templating regulars is a really bad idea, and there are times when it's perfectly fine. For example, here someone gave User:Newyorkbrad a template which began "Welcome to Wikepedia." This was obviously inappropriate and disrepectful, since Newyorkbrad is a long-time, well-respected editor. On the other hand, as Sven points out in the VP discussion, sometimes templates are perfectly fine to give to regulars; for example, notifications that an article an editor created or an image they uploaded is being nominated for deletion. One wouldn't really expect a "hand-written" note in those routine cases. Those are two extremes, but there are gray areas in the middle. Hope this helps. 28bytes (talk) 19:52, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Or to put it even more simply, "does the template say what you'd have said if you were writing it out by hand?". – iridescent  20:08, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

When to back off
How do I know when it is time for me to back off from a particular discussion?Jasper Deng (talk) 03:28, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
 * In general, I'd say if there's any doubt in your mind, back off. One of the things you have trouble with is unintentionally antagonizing people who believe you're not listening to them but are rather repeating the same points over and over. Being willing to back off from a conversation after you've made your point once (before you upset people) is a good habit to work towards. Any particular conversation you'd like me to look at? 28bytes (talk) 03:37, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
 * This concerns the recent incident with .Jasper Deng (talk) 03:40, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah, yes. That's definitely a case where refusing to back away from the conversation caused much more stress to everyone involved than just shrugging and moving on to something else would have. 28bytes (talk) 03:47, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Should I have said something like "I'm not doing this anymore"?Jasper Deng (talk) 03:49, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
 * No, not really... the option is always there to simply not respond. You don't want to appear to leave in a huff. 28bytes (talk) 03:55, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

Worrying...
This worries me as it was reported at ANI and looks a lot similar to my comments about policies, such as with Pangurban1.Jasper Deng (talk) 04:32, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Here we have a case where one editor is making condescending aspersions regarding the mental competence of other editors, and another editor responding by calling the first editor a twat. This is an excellent example of a dispute you should avoid participating in. 28bytes (talk) 04:44, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

Leaving this alone
At User talk:Kcdcchef this user clearly is not AGF'ing, and I should never have talked to him/her in the first place. Signing off on that.Jasper Deng (talk) 05:49, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Looking at that editor's contributions, it's clear the processes here are frustrating for them. Yes, they've got a COI, but there did seem to be a little unwarranted hostility towards them at the AfD. I think you made the right decision leaving them alone. 28bytes (talk) 05:57, 2 June 2011 (UTC)