User talk:32.210.14.197

French Space Force independence
Do you have a news source or press release to support that the French now have a space force as a service branch? I’m afraid I didn’t see it on the wiki page. Garuda28 (talk) 15:45, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

Sure, here it is: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commandement_de_l%27Espace
 * I'm afraid a wikipedia page doesn't count as a source per WP:CIRCULAR. Even so, I'm seeing sources stating that it is still part of the Air Force, not an independent service. Can you pull out the specific sources that say it is now an indepdnent service and not a joint command? I am seeing sources saying that it is being transitioned from an air force to an air and space force.Garuda28 (talk) 17:41, 21 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Ok, here is the article announcing the official creation, and it has a status much like the US Space force, where it is an independent force still housed in an existing force. The French Air Force will also be renamed the Air and Space Force.  https://www.air-cosmos.com/article/le-commandement-de-lespace-devient-ralit-21655


 * so what I’m seeing is that it will still be part of the French Air Force and not an independent service branch, is that correct? The U.S. Space Force is not part of the U.S. Air Force. Garuda28 (talk) 21:13, 21 December 2019 (UTC)


 * It's the same situation as in the US, where the Marines are still attached to the Navy, and where the Space Force is still attached to the Air Force; the Commandement de l'espace, though independent, is still attached to the French Air Force. Same organizational pattern, so either both Space Forces are independent, or neither is.


 * That’s actually not exactly the case. So the space force is attached to the Department of the Air Force, not the U.S. Air Force. France has no equivalent to the Department of the Air Force. In essence what France has done would be like the U.S. Air Force renaming itself the U.S. Air and Space Force and standing up a space command inside it. Garuda28 (talk) 21:26, 21 December 2019 (UTC)


 * These are obviously different countries, with bureaucracies and organizations that will differ given their different histories. But they are in the functionally equivalent situation.  To say that France's space force is not really independent because it doesn't exactly follow an American organizational chart wouldn't make a lot of sense.  The question is are both space forces in situations of organizational autonomy such that they can be considered independent, and the answer is yes for both. The article cited gets into the practical details of what that means in terms of bases, infrastructure and the like, but clearly presents the Commandement de l'espace as an administratively, physically, and legally independent entity.


 * It is not independent because it is not a service branch and is in fact a part of their Air Force. Until that is the case it cannot be independent. Garuda28 (talk) 23:54, 21 December 2019 (UTC)


 * A discussion has been started at Talk:Space force. I would invite you to make your argument on why France has an independent space force there. Garuda28 (talk) 00:33, 22 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Again, you are making arguments about another country by giving precedence to the American organizational system by relying on organizational distinctions between the Department of the Air Force and the US Air Force. These distinctions cannot be expected to have direct equivalents in other countries.  The French space force and the American space force are both linked to their Air Forces and both independent from them, they are in the same functional positions. Insisting the French military follow American organizational schemes is just parochial.