User talk:3family6/Archive 14

DYK for Steve Taylor & The Perfect Foil
Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:02, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

DYK for Wow to the Deadness
Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:02, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

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DYK for Soup the Chemist
&mdash; Coffee //  have a cup  //  beans  // 12:02, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

Inauguration of Mauricio Macri
Would it be OK if I asked to be co-credited for the DYK with ? I did a lot of the copyediting and retranslation, source work and writing to neutralize the article and rescue it from potentially failing as a DYK, and I'd like to be credited with that. (I've also pinged him to get his opinion.) If you don't want to, that's fine as well. Raymie (t • c) 02:26, 1 March 2016 (UTC)
 * I went ahead and credited you.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 02:32, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

2016 GA Cup-Round 1
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Reference errors on 2 March
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DYK nomination of Sintax the Terrific
Hello! Your submission of Sintax the Terrific at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know!  —♦♦ AMBER  (ЯʘCK)  14:43, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

Template:Did you know nominations/Operation Sayasila
Hello,

Could you please return to this nomination and remove those untidy red marks littering the template? I do believe they are hindering the nomination from running as a DYK.

Georgejdorner (talk) 18:15, 4 March 2016 (UTC)


 * The nomination was promoted to a prep set, so it should be fine.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 18:59, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

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Seisan Bunkai
Just a courtesy note that I get your point. Some groups of Uechi practice it against a bo. The interpretation is now a tradition that is testable. There are other interpretations as there are for all of the movements in the kata but you have to have a standard if you are testing application. If you look in Mattson's second book, you will find an interpretation for the double-groin/crane strikes that he now mutters about--catching kicks from the front and the back! It was the best he could come up with at the time when put on the spot! So. . . if I think the final move against a "sword" is a bit unrealistic, I do not want to dwell on what absurd interpretation I would have imagined if I was put on "the spot." >.<98.227.140.14 (talk) 09:12, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
 * I've never read any of Mattson's books, and am not very inclined to as one of my senseis has made comments to the effect that Mattson really didn't, and doesn't, know what he is talking about. I'm just not sure that the idea of a seisan bunkai defending against a sword strike was entirely his - I don't think the OkiKuKai has ever had anything to do with Mattson, yet it has adopted that defense technique. I'm sure others use a bo. I just am unsure about the origins of both. Maybe if Sensei Shigeru Takamiyagi ever finished his book we could know a lot more of the direct history.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 14:47, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

Here we get into the stupidity of politics which, frankly, is nothing more than people upset over who got the softer cushion at the bar one day in 1972! I use to hear that "George Mattson never trains" yet every time I see him he has a gi on and is, well, training.

That being written OKK--"Okikukai"--was basically everyone but Kanmei Uechi. Mattson had a relationship with them up until Kanei died. He stayed with Kanmei because he did not see eye-to-eye with a particular member of OKK to which I will only say that individual caused a lot of others to leave as well, such as Jim Thompson, Kiyohide Shinjo. My point on that is "politics" tends to be two-way street.

Whether or not you believe Mattson's version of the development of Seisan bunkai it became the "standard" WAY back though some organizations used a bo. Originally, separate students of Kanbun had their own organizations that were happy to be under Kanei. They would have tests together under Kanei. This changed after he died with some going independent. There were also other interpretations of moves you see in the different organizations' versions.

The general attitude, on Okinawa, is keep a sequence that is only for testing the same because why change it? THAT being written a lot of organizations are going back to an "older" way of doing San Sei Rui because, well, they sort of forgot how it was done because when it was taught it was broken down. Years ago, I recall seeing a picture of a now 10th dan doing the final move "weird" and was told, "that's the old way." A few years later, they are doing "the old way." Gofigya! To which there is an amusing story Tomoyose Sensei told at Mattson's camp when some schmuck asked him, "when Kanbun Uechi demonstrated a kata, did he do it differently every time?"

"Of course!" he answered. He then told about how he met with his father and his father demanded they train. As Tomoyose Sensei was doing what he was doing his father got angrier and angrier. "THAT'S NOT RIGHT!" Tomoyose Sensei explained to his father that that was what Kanei Uechi was teaching him. Apparently, his father stormed back to Japan to Kanbun Uechi and ranted about how "his son" was teaching everyone wrong."

"What is he teaching," Kanbun asked.

Tomoyose Sensei's father showed him.

"Oh yeah, that's right! I forgot! Sorry."

Unfortunately, Mr. Takamiyagi did finish his book twice. He primarily wrote the "Kihon" then he put together a sort of second book. The problem is both are only available in Japanese and were limited printing. They also have a lot of extraneous material from a "lot of important people no one outside of Okinawa knows" in deference to them. I had privately suggested that he take his second book with the section on Sanchin and San Sei Rui, add a similar section on Seisan, and keep the hojoundo section. His "history" tended to be a bit of hagiography. Anyways, take that and then force a few of his graduate students to translate it into English. THAT, I tried to explain, every Uechi student would buy. Whether they agreed with it or not. Sadly, he never did that and, equally sadly, he never will be able to. Perhaps his students may consider doing that.98.227.140.14 (talk) 21:32, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
 * I fully understand what you are saying about the politics of things. I've tried to follow some of it and I always end up getting lost. Anyway, I think it would be great if we could demonstrate the bo version of the bunkai with some reliable sources. The entire articles on Uechi-Ryu and Shohei-Ryu need better sourcing, anyway.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 21:43, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

The only "good thing" about knowing politics is knowing that a lot of declarations come less from history and reality and more from "Hate THAT guy!"

Unfortunately, much of this is "I heard/I saw" which, as I say, with $2 will get you a very bad cup of coffee at Starbucks. The Shinkokai group practiced that way. It is hard to describe in writing but you have to imagine a standard bo attack which is a thrust, then a swing to the feet, then a strike downward. So they block down with the left prior to jumping back to deflect the thrust. If you look on Youtube I believe they have Gushi's instructional videos where he has his interpretation of the front-kick-knee strike sequence. That is not his personal interpretation, it is one practiced by many and has been for a long time, it is just not part of the "official" version of the bunkai. But it is all a bit fluid in that even the older dudes like Nakahodo and Takara talk about these things and tweak here and there. From a "Wiki" stand-point, all one can really say is that kata has many different interpretations but the bunkai are simply agreed on interpretations for instructional and teaching purposes.

You really want to get depressed? Research some of the actual history. That picture of "Shushiwa," for example, is all wrong. Completely wrong. As one guy who was there during the trip puts it, the Chinese did not want to disappoint the visitors by not finding anything on the figure so they basically grabbed a picture and said, "here!" There is also a too long but funny story Tomoyose Sensei tells about why Kanbun REALLY started teaching again!

Awesome. . . but how do you source any of that? We will all go back to Kanbun leaping up from his deathbed--from renal failure!--to execute the perfect Sanchin stance! :) Or as a professor who teaches Aikido jokingly put it, "oh yeah, but Ueshiba DID teleport!"98.227.140.14 (talk) 22:39, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

DYK for Nephilim: Act of God 1
 —♦♦ AMBER  (ЯʘCK)  00:08, 10 March 2016 (UTC) 12:01, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

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Mongol conquests
Hi 3family6

This was a misunderstanding, for which I am to blame, so allow me to start by conveying my sicere apologies. This is how it evolved:
 * 1. I was not questioning the source, I was asking about the author, about who he is/ was and this I thought I made clear in the edit summary: "who is he?". I was looking for something like "British mediaeval historian"/ "American historian specialsing in ....".
 * 2. I see now — after you insited that I was using the wrong tag — that I have from time to time used this template incorrectly, often using it as a request for information on who the person in question is (but I am relieved to be able to say that I also use it correctly in cases of "experts say ..." and similar).
 * 3. This obviously created the misunderstanding, as is clear from your edit summary, "not an appropriate usage for that template, since this is a direct quote attributed to a specific historian", which I failed — then — to understand. I get it now.

All I wanted to know, as a first step, was who the person is/ was. This, for two reasons:
 * 1. The person might be unrelated to the subject and could have made a single and tangential reference to the Mongols (after all, the work is called " Empires Apart: A History of American and Russian Imperialism" - nothing about Mongols there). I have seen many similar cases, where editors are desperate for sources and will use — as an example — something taken from the intro of a popular, commercial, cookery book as 'source' to back up a statement about the spread of sourdough throughout the ancient world.
 * 2. Because we tend to be more lenient with historical personalities and allow them more latitude and do not hold them up to the same academic rigour as we do with modern writers — we would accept of a mediaeval historian (chronicler) such as Thomas Grey to use language such as "an orgy of violence and destruction", but not of a modern writer. We attribute to Cassius Dio and others information such as "Nero was rumored to have had captured Christians dipped in oil and set on fire in his garden at night as a source of light", and this coming from a man who lived 150 after Nero's death.

So, if I knew who the author was, I would have immediately deleted the passage if he fell in category 1. (as you have correctly done, but would need to know more about his standing in the field if he fell in category 2. before taking further action. So yes, despite by best efforts and good intention, my template would not bear any fruit because I was indeed using it wrongly. Then, because of your reversals, I looked up the work and saw that it was most certainly a case of category 1. I could then have proceeded with removing the section, but I don't know why I did not — perhaps the conviction that I was right and you were wrong — which I now see was the opposite —, which also accounts for my tone, for which I equally apologise. Again, I am to blame for the misunderstanding and duly express my apologies. Question — is there an appropriate template to indicate that nothing or little is known about the author (i.e., where the information being attributed is quite plausible and is well argumented, but there is no information available on the author and his standing in the field? Perhaps,, accompanied by "Nothing is known about this author" in the edit summary? Regards, Rui &#39;&#39;Gabriel&#39;&#39; Correia (talk) 12:06, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
 * I should apologize too - it was late in the night and I was tired and thus easily annoyed over something fairly minor. I could have reacted better. I understand fully what you are saying about the source. I think or  would both work here. Both of those templates also have a navbox on the bottom of their respective pages, which is how I was able to find all the alternative.-- 3family6  ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 13:51, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

Slow Burn (album)
Hello 3family6, I just reviewed your article nomination for DYK (Slow Burn (album)) and wanted to let you know that I confirmed the nomination (a very well done article), but had a minor quibble with wording for the hook, if you want to weigh in on my suggestion. — AJDS talk 17:18, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

DYK for Ill Harmonics
Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:01, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Sev Statik; Altered State; Speak Life
Hello! Your submission of Sev Statik; Altered State; Speak Life at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know!  Jolly  Ω   Janner  08:43, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

Sean Slaughter
I just found and watch this interview with Christian Broadcasting Network, while I don't know the best way to integrate the material in the Sean Slaughter article. This is one you may want to take to DYK, where this would get increased exposure of his music.The Cross Bearer (talk) 09:23, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

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DYK for Slow Burn (album)
Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:01, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

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Thanks!
3family6, I appreciate the kind words! :) I'm very glad I didn't cause offense, and I regret having initially badly communicated what I was trying to get at. (Answering you here because I didn't feel it was quite polite of me to answer on the talk page of someone with whom I was having a dispute.)  valereee (talk) 17:02, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
 * You're welcome.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 17:04, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

L'Armée Clandestine
Hello,

Just thought you might be interested that I am researching the possibility of tracing the Project Momentum guerrillas' evolution into Vang Pao's L'Armée Clandestine. It is quite a tale. Long tale short, the Hmong developed into history's first guerrilla army with air superiority. L'Armée became the fighting core of the Royalist troops in northern Laos. They stalemated the People's Army of Vietnam for years while inflicting several times the casualties they suffered. But there were just way too few Hmong, and from about 1971 on L'Armée Clandestine was predominantly Thai mercenaries. The remaining Hmong units were filled with teenagers and aging cripples.

Gripping story, with epic battles ranging over the Plain of Jars. But oi, the research....

Georgejdorner (talk) 03:53, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Sounds exciting!-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 19:17, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

DYK for Back to Dust
&mdash; Coffee //  have a cup  //  beans  // 02:12, 26 March 2016 (UTC)

DYK for Sintax the Terrific
&mdash; Coffee //  have a cup  //  beans  // 13:57, 26 March 2016 (UTC)

The Signpost: 23 March 2016
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A barnstar for you!

 * Thanks! I finally figured out how to use AWB is all. Only about 650 to go!-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 04:48, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for March 29
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DYK for Sev Statik
Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:28, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

DYK for Altered State (Stu Dent album)
Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:28, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

DYK for Speak Life
Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:28, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

2016 GA Cup-Round 2
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Barnstar for Kaga ikki

 * Thank you!-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 05:03, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

A barnstar for you.

 * Thanks,, it is very fun reading those articles!-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 05:02, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Then you might enjoy Battles of Nakhang, hot off the keyboard.Georgejdorner (talk) 18:28, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

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Lecrae Article
Hi 3family6,

I think that it is more appropriate to refer to Lecrae by his first name in his article rather than refer to him as Moore. I recognize that Wikipedia tries to use the last name of the subject. However, in instances in which an artist only goes by his or her first name, I am of the opinion that using the first name reduces incongruity. For example, Beyoncé and Adele are addressed by their first name as opposed to their last name on their Wikipedia articles.

Thank you Caleb Casolaro (talk) 15:04, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Both of those articles violate the Manual of Style. In the case of Beyoncé I'm rather surprised, since that article is a good article and thus should comply with the manual of style. The guideline in question is MOS:SURNAME. Until you can provide a very good reason that we should ignore the rules and establish a different consensus for performing musicians, the article should follow MOS guidelines. You should bring this up on the relevant MOS talk page if you want to establish a different consensus.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 16:32, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
 * I stand corrected. The guideline I cited above states that if someone is best known by a pseudonym, that pseudonym can be used.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 21:31, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Bloodbath of B-R5RB
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Your GA nomination of Bloodbath of B-R5RB
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Featured article candidates/New Wave of British Heavy Metal/archive1
I started the procedure to have the New Wave of British Heavy Metal article promoted to WP:FA. Featured article candidates/New Wave of British Heavy Metal/archive1 needs discussants. Since you were a contributor to the article, I am hoping you might give some comments. Lewismaster (talk) 09:00, 10 April 2016 (UTC)

My edits
Could you please take a look at Contemporary worship and Contemporary worship music. Thanks.— Vchimpanzee  •  talk  •  contributions  •  19:31, 10 April 2016 (UTC)

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Autopatrolled granted
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PR request
Hi 3family6, is it possible you could take a look at Gothic metal for its peer review? I'd like to make this a featured article, but I only have a few edits on it. In return, I'll take a look at Viking metal and see if I can help with that.  danny music editor  what'd I do now? 14:47, 27 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Sure, I can take a look.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 21:38, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

Article for deletion
Hi there. I've proposed an AfD for Red and Anarchist black metal. It's not getting much comment at present... could you cast an eye over it and offer comment (either way). Trying to gain consensus - either way. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 12:28, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

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Untombed
Could I get some clarification of how this webzine passes WP:RS? Having an "editorial staff" is nowhere near enough. Has the content been published by independent, third-party sources (print, preferably)? If the specific author of the review has been published elsewhere that could be looked at on a case-by-case basis, but in general webzines fail WP:RS as WP:SPS (editorial staff are self-publishing online most of the time). Blackmetalbaz (talk) 15:23, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Untombed is owned by XNilo Records (and was formerly owned by Divine Metal Distro), though I don't know how much that company is involved in day-to-day operations. David Michael and Janette Ralston are listed as the owners in the About Us section, so they would probably be the actual publishers. The publication has been mentioned elsewhere, such as Metal Pulse Radio - run by Open Grave Records - and I think Indie Vision Music as well (unfortunately, the site is now archived, so it makes it very difficult to find the mentions of Untombed Zine on that site). Your argument about editorial staff self-publishing I've brought up in various discussions here on wiki before, and in general I've seen the response be that if the staff do the publishing, the content is not self-published (even if a given editor wrote the content, it's nothing different than say if a newspaper editor wrote content). Usually the what is discussed is the reputation of the publication's reliability. Untombed Zine is very much a niche publication, but it does have a reputation as a reliable source. And, as I mentioned at the first, it is owned by a media company distinct from the publication itself.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 15:35, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Labels/distros have always been disregarded as failing WP:RS. Reputation for "reliability" has nothing to with WP:RS, as a webzine having an editorial staff is not the same as having independent publication for a genuine third-party. Can I just say, thank you for responding with sources, as I came to you as someone whose editing practice I respect (even when we disagree). Blackmetalbaz (talk) 15:48, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
 * You're welcome, and I appreciate the debate, as it makes me double-check my work and contributions. Your interpretation of reliability does seem to be different that what I've seen defined in my discussions at WP:RSN and WT:ALBUM, though, which I think explains some of our differences.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 15:54, 2 May 2016 (UTC)