User talk:41.66.96.54

February 2024
Hello, I'm Schrödinger's jellyfish. I noticed that you recently removed content from List of Joe Biden 2024 presidential campaign primary endorsements without adequately explaining why. In the future, it would be helpful to others if you described your changes to Wikipedia with an accurate edit summary. If this was a mistake, don't worry; the removed content has been restored. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks. Schrödinger's jellyfish &#9993; 04:22, 18 February 2024 (UTC)


 * I DID explain it. Actually there is a discussion going on, if Vladimir Putin's waterproof endorsement of Joe Biden is an endorsement. The endorsement has been removed, and the reason has been, that it has not explicitly been labelled as an endorsement. The same is true for the other two endorsements I have removed. (And it happened to be a full section of the list.) I am fully aware that some people are unhappy with Vladimir Putin's endorsement (maybe even Biden himself, we do not know), but that cannot be used as a justification to treat him differently. So either all three must be removed or none of them. 41.66.96.54 (talk) 04:48, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
 * We had a talk page discussion that resulted in a consensus favoring Putin to be removed. Reasons given were:
 * -it is not a primary endorsement
 * -some sources indicate Biden has rejected the endorsement
 * -Putin has previously made similar statements about Trump
 * -reliable sources differ over whether or not the endorsement was genuine
 * Consensus could change, and Putin could be re-added to the page, but for now, he is not included.
 * More importantly, removing unrelated content because you are upset about the removal of Putin is a clear example of disrupting Wikipedia to prove a point. You are welcome to participate in the talk page discussion as we continue to sort out the Putin business.  ~Politicdude (About me, talk, contribs) 17:43, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
 * 1. Many of the endorsements on this page are not strictly primary endorsements. But there is no general election endorsement page yet. So where does the endorsement fit in? 2. Hearsay: Some sources say. What's that? Nonsense. 3. There is not even a valid source for Putin's "endorsement" of Trump in 2016 (see that Wikipedia page). What is given there is a quote from 2018, that he wanted Trump as president in the past (in 2016). But it makes absolutely no sense to count a non-endorsement from 2018 as endorsement for 2016. If you think Putin has made similar statements about Trump give me the sources. 4. Of course it was genuine. It's on the Kremlin's website. (And I do not say that everything there is reliable. But it's the place to go if one wants to know what Putin has to say. Understand?) 5. Is there a consensus or not? Elli reverted because there is not. (At least that's what she said.) You say there is consensus against the endorsement. Now, what? 6. The content I removed is not unrelated. I removed it because it's exactly the same situation as with Putin's endorsement. And that's what I have given as the reason for removing two other endorsements. Maybe I should have removed more than those two, but then we come to: 7. Participating in such discussions does not make any sense, because I have not the time to debunk every single nonsensical claim hundreds and thousands of people like you are writing down. 8. If you are interested to improve Wikipedia, remove Putin's Trump 2016 endorsement (see above under 3.), and re-add his Biden endorsement 2024! 9. Putin's endorsement is by far the most important one Biden has yet received. There are many that come as no surprise. And there are many from people who have no political impact whatsoever. And then there are not many left. Putin, on the other hand, is a surprise (which you try to hide from the public), he definitely has some impact, he tries to find a way towards reestablishing diplomatic relations with the U.S.A., and his Biden endorsement is an important step towards that goal. I understand that many do not like that (the weapons industry for example), but do you really want to push the whole world towards WWIII instead? 41.66.96.9 (talk) 21:06, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
 * 1) If there is an endorsement on the page which is not a primary election endorsement, please remove it. But the fact that an endorsement is "not strictly primary" is irrelevant. If an individual endorses Biden for re-election, that can be inferred as an endorsement of Biden for the primary. However, Putin's endorsement is a stated preference for Biden over Trump, which is not related to the primary. As you have stated, there is no page for endorsements for a general election between Biden and Trump, because that has not been set in stone yet. The absence of such a page does not mean we should list Putin as an endorser of Biden for the primary when he is not.
 * 2) "Some sources say. What's that?" The entire purpose of Wikipedia. Wikipedia is built off what reliable sources say.
 * 3) I don't edit that page and am unaware of the context, but if you have a problem with that endorsement being listed, bring it up on the talk page or just be bold and remove it. But this is not relevant to 2024. These sources were brought up in the talk page discussion with regards to Putin and Trump:.
 * 4) Bring it up on that page
 * 5) Eli stated there was "no consensus for inclusion." While consensus can change and the discussion is ongoing, that means that at the moment, the consensus is that we should not include it.
 * 6) Please read this page.
 * 7) It is clear that you have disagreements with other editors on this topic. Talk pages are a good place to work out disagreements. You don't have to respond to anyone if you don't want to. But if it is true that you are a minority of one against hundreds of thousands of editors each making different arguments, the consensus is probably not on your side.
 * 9) The current page is a list of individuals who meet Wikipedia's notability guidelines and endorsed Joe Biden. An endorsement being an "important" one or a "surprise" is not a factor in inclusion on that page. It would be a factor on Joe Biden 2024 Presidential campaign, however, if you want to add a sentence or two there. Whether or not people like the endorsement is not a factor in inclusion; Wikipedia includes tons of material on controversial and unpopular topics.
 * This discussion has gone well outside of its original purpose. If you wish to make an edit to an article, do so. If other editors disagree with the edit, try to build a consensus. There are a wide variety of methods to do so. If consensus doesn't favor your viewpoint, respect the consensus, and don't try to sway the consensus by removing unrelated content or disrupting Wikipedia to prove a point. Thank you for your interest in improving Wikipedia. See you out there!  ~Politicdude (About me, talk, contribs) 01:28, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
 * It's just pathetic. 41.66.96.9 (talk) 03:49, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
 * 1. Pavel Zarubin: "Therefore, the question we had four years ago is taking on new relevance today. Who would be better for us? Biden or Trump?" Vladimir Putin: "Biden. He has more experience, and he is more predictable too, an old school politician. That said, we will work with any leader of the United States who has the trust of the American people." - The "question we had four years ago" is of course the elections of the president, and - surprise - it "is taking on new relevance today". So, they are really talking about the elections. I thought people would understand that, but obviously they don't. Zarubin and Putin have a conversation for people, who understand the context. I didn't know that the editors of Wikipedia are not among them. My fault. 41.66.96.9 (talk) 04:14, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
 * 2. Saying "some sources" doesn't help very much to find those sources. As far as I see, there are no sources for what you are claiming. And the purpose of Wikipedia is not claiming that "some sources" say. It's naming those sources. 41.66.96.9 (talk) 04:17, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
 * 7. Compare the two statements: "Participating in such discussions does not make any sense, because I have not the time to debunk every single nonsensical claim hundreds and thousands of people like you are writing down." and "But if it is true that you are a minority of one against hundreds of thousands of editors each making different arguments, the consensus is probably not on your side." - Do you see it? You are insinuating a lot that's not in a statement! You are really good in propaganda! And that is not good. 41.66.96.9 (talk) 04:27, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
 * You write: "Whether or not people like the endorsement is not a factor in inclusion;" But that's not true. In many cases (maybe even in most cases) it's the only factor. Of course it shouldn't be. But it is. Removal of Putin's endorsement of Biden is one of the best examples. 41.66.96.9 (talk) 04:32, 20 February 2024 (UTC)