User talk:567fuall

Neutrality, copyright
Hello. Thanks for your contribution to Clan of Xymox. Some of the content you contributed, however, is not consistent with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. First, our copyright policy does not permit importing text from non-free sources unless that content is attributed and clearly marked as a quotation. See Copy-paste. Beyond that, our neutrality policy does not permit us to draw conclusions about works. Instead, we are required when discussing critical evaluation to draw a representative sample. Typically, critical evaluations of individual works are placed in articles about those individual works, to allow sufficient space to cover all significant views. This also helps avoid the appearance that positive reviews are being cherry-picked to promote the entity being described.

Again, thanks for your contribution, and welcome. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 13:01, 7 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Hi. Thanks for your note. :) There's no reason to submit your edits to me; I don't consider myself any kind of authority on the band or, really, involved in the article at all. I only monitor it for neutrality concerns based on a complaint received by the Wikimedia Foundation. When large edits are made to it, I check to ensure that they do not violate the rights of any living person and just happened to notice the issues I described above. We have to make sure that the pendulum stays right in the middle. :)


 * In terms of adding quotes, I'm afraid that copying content directly, without any notation, does not constitute "quotes" in the English language Wikipedia. Quotes require quotation marks as well as attribution. But "dull summing up" is sort of what we strive for here. As an encyclopedia, our goal is to be businesslike and straightforward. See WP:TONE. :)


 * I'm afraid I don't know what you mean by the "negative Best of Xymox" review. Could you please point out the specific issue in the article? Nooten's "To be honest I never listen to pop music" is not actually quoted in the article, but is the name of a source. That one is beyond us, since it was the publisher who chose that title.


 * In terms of correcting the history, the best thing to do is assemble the sources that you can find. We have to be careful with bios we find on the web to make sure that the website is "reliable" (see WP:IRS). This can be a challenge with musical groups outside the mainstream, since usually it is fan groups and fansites who document them. They can be fully accurate, but they often aren't allowed on Wikipedia. In this case, there would be an additional complication in that one "reliable source" does offer different information (you can read it in preview here). Usually, what we would do here is note the discrepancy. We can't choose which version we prefer, as that's not Wikipedia's role, but we can point out that sources disagree. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 13:44, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Ok, Moonriddengirl , that clarifies it a bit. Yes the encyclopedic read is for me personally a dull read but I will do my best to liven it up a bit with quotes and the like. Thank you for your more elaborate explanation of the policies of Wiki 567fuall (talk) 17:27, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I see you've been adding on. :) One thing, though, as I said above, we can't pick which source to prioritize, if the sources are reliable. We have to note the discrepancy. I've altered the information accordingly to note what the two existing sources said about the formation of the band. Also, with citations, please try to give as much information as you can to allow readers to access them. For print sources, this includes actual page numbers. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 12:37, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

Ok, understood. I have to get back on the Alternative Press but I found here a better one. It is online and a Dutch Music encyclopedia. They have been logging Clan Of Xymox for years. This backs up my research: http://en.muziekencyclopedie.nl/action/entry/Clan+Of+Xymox;jsessionid=aaaL2aTtyKd9u-_XFqi1s

1983 Clan Of Xymox, formed in 1981 by Ronny Moorings and Anke Wolbert, makes it debut with the EP Subsequent Pleasures.

The other page is in Dutch about the 1985 period about Frank Weyzig joining the band and stating he has a marginal function, not a songwriter.( was not a founding member either)567fuall (talk) 23:42, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

http://www.muziekencyclopedie.nl/action/entry/Clan+Of+Xymox

1985 Op het in deze tijd heftig aan de weg timmerende Britse 4AD-label (o.a. Cocteau Twins, Birthday Party, This Mortal Coil) verschijnt Clan Of Xymox. Op dit door 4AD-baas Ivo Watts gecoproduceerde debuut is naast Moorings en Wolbert toetsenist Pieter Nooten te horen. Het draait om electrobeats, sequencers en sombere vocalen. De pers spreekt van: dromerig, fantastisch materiaal, de geluiden zijn ethereal en sensueel tegelijkertijd (Dance Music U.S.A.), maar ook van 'niet onverdienstelijk, te weinig afwisseling en teveel steunend op stijlcitaten van Cure anno 1980, New Order, Yello en Giorgio Moroder' (OOR). A Day ontpopt zich tot een club-hit. Het album staat geruime tijd in de Engelse independent-lijsten. Willem van Antwerpen (drums) en Frank Weyzig (toetsen) behoren tot de randfiguren van de band.

google translate :

At this time 4AD is working hard, (eg Cocteau Twins, Birthday Party, This Mortal Coil) and releases Clan Of Xymox. Produced by 4AD chief Ivo Watts ,co-produced their debut album which you can hear next to Moorings, Wolbert and Peter Nooten. It's all about electro beats, sequencers and moody vocals. The press speaks of dreamy, fantastic material, the sounds are ethereal and sensual while (Dance Music USA), but also "not without merit, too little variation and too much relying on style quotes Cure anno 1980, New Order, Yello and Giorgio Moroder (OOR). A Day turns out to be a club hit. The album is a long time in the English independent charts. Willem van Antwerpen (drums) and Frank Weyzig (keyboards) belong to the margins of the band.

The Gothic 2 ( Schwarzkopf & Schwartzkopf) book I actually have in my possession but need to copy the article as it is a story more then a short description. The said article is called Clan Of Xymox " The Early Years" page 31 to page 44 http://www.schwarzkopf-verlag.de/musik/lexika-sachbuch/gothic/gothic-2-die-internationale-szene.php

I hope this is enough for now 567fuall (talk) 23:42, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

here is another one I found written by Mark Sutton :

http://www.answers.com/topic/clan-of-xymox

http://wwwAMG AllMusic Guide: Pop Artists:. answers.com/topic/clan-of-xymox

Michael Sutton, Rovi

Clan of Xymox were formed in Nijmegen, Netherlands, in 1983 by Ronny Moorings (vocals, guitar) and Anka Wolbert (bass, vocals). A year later, Moorings and Wolbert moved to Amsterdam, releasing the LP Subsequent Pleasures as Xymox. (The album was limited to 500 copies.) Xymox then became the opening act for Dead Can Dance in England. The band's presence on Dead Can Dance's U.K. tour caught the interest of 4AD Records, and the label eventually signed them.

567fuall (talk) 11:23, 11 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Oh, how confusing. Now we have a different year to worry about, too? I'll see what I can do. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 11:47, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Personally from what I read I would go with the 1983 version from M.Sutton ( which is also supported by the Dutch encyclopedia ) It might be that Moorings & Wolbert started a bit earlier but that is not really that relevant. The main issue is that R.Moorings & A.Wolbert released the first mini album " Subsequent Pleasures" in 1983 and the formed the band AFTER that in 1984 with P.Nooten  and later F. Weyzig joining in 1985. 567fuall (talk) 22:21, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

and another one : http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/Xymox-Biography/9B48A1A0F087D4614825690F0039FB61

Xymox was founded in Nijmegen, the Netherlands in 1983 by Ronny Moorings and Anke Wolbert. In 1984, after moving to Amsterdam they released domestically on their own label 'SUBSEQUENT PLEASURES'. Only 500 copies were made available ever.567fuall (talk) 22:46, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Drmies (talk) 17:09, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Sockpuppetry case
Your name has been mentioned in connection with a sockpuppetry case. Please refer to Sockpuppet investigations/Knowitallfortoday for evidence. Please make sure you make yourself familiar with the guide to responding to cases before editing the evidence page. Marcus  Qwertyus   04:05, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

64.34.111.48 (talk) 02:23, 20 May 2011 (UTC)