User talk:67.3.129.87

September and October 2023
Hello! Welcome to Wikipedia, and thank you for your contributions. At least one of your edits on the page Virginia City, Nevada, while it may have been in good faith, was difficult to distinguish from vandalism. To help other editors understand the reason for the changes, you can use an edit summary for your contributions. You can also take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. In addition, you changed the populations of Stillwater, Minnesota, Alameda, Idaho, Whitefish, Montana, Brandenburg Township, Richland County, North Dakota, Butte, Montana, Boise, Idaho ‎ and Moscow, Idaho. For some of these changes, you only changed the population for one decade. You are welcome to update the populations, but you must provide a reference. References are complex, especially with the US Census, I suggest finding a recent edit that uses data from a recent census and using that as a reference. Cxbrx (talk) 19:38, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * I have been going through each individual census and correcting some of the populations. Some of the populations listed are not what is listed in the actual sources from the census. For example, Whitefish, Montana does not appear on the 1890 or 1900 Censuses, but they have populations listed on the table anyways. Also, the population numbers listed on Wikipedia for Whitefish, up through the 1960 Census, are all incorrect and do not reflect the actual numbers listed in their respective censuses. The references specifically for Whitefish, Montana are as follows: https://www2.census.gov/library/publications/decennial/1910/volume-2/volume-2-p10.pdf
 * https://www2.census.gov/library/publications/decennial/1940/population-volume-1/33973538v1ch06.pdf
 * https://www2.census.gov/library/publications/decennial/1950/population-volume-1/vol-01-29.pdf
 * https://www2.census.gov/library/publications/decennial/1960/population-volume-1/15276159v1p28ch2.pdf
 * These references contain all of the population returns for Montana for every census from 1910 through 1960. Comparing the results from the actual census records and the numbers currently listed on Wikipedia for Whitefish show that they do not match up. The numbers that I had edited for Whitefish are based on what the census listed.
 * Everything I have listed so far has been just for Whitefish, but I have used the same census returns for each individual state, city, etc. For example, the current population listed for Virginia City, Nevada in the 1890 Census is 6,433. This is not the same number that is reported in the actual census returns, where the 1890 population for Virginia City is reported as 8,511. This source contains the population of every city in Nevada for 1890, 1900, and 1910: https://www2.census.gov/library/publications/decennial/1910/volume-3/volume-3-p2.pdf
 * Other examples of my edits you have reverted are mistakes on reading the census data. For example, the current population listed for the 1980 Census for Boise, Idaho is 102,249. However, when reading the actual 1980 Census returns for Boise, this number is nowhere found. For the 1980 Census, there are two different numbers given for Boise. The one listed in the table is 102,451. This number was later revised and corrected in the census, where a footnote in the beginning lists the new corrected population for Boise as 102,160. Here is the source for the 1980 Census returns for Idaho where this information can be found: https://www2.census.gov/library/publications/decennial/1980/volume-1/idaho/1980a_idabcd-01.pdf
 * One other edit I would like to explain is the one for Stillwater, Minnesota. The number currently listed is not totally incorrect, but rather just misread. Some of the earlier census numbers are hard to read, thus can lead to the misreporting of the correct numbers. Common examples of this for the earlier census returns include reading a 3 as an 8 or a 9 as a 0. This is what happened here. The number currently listed for the 1900 population is 12,818. The correct number should be 12,318. I assume the incorrect number was gotten from the 1900 Census, where the 3 can easily be misread as an 8. I, however, used the 1910 Census, which includes the results for the 1890 and 1900 Census as well. Under the 1910 Census, the numbers are much easier to distinguish, thus one can clearly see the correct population listed for 1900 should be 12,318. Here is a direct link to the 1910 Census for Minnesota to prove this: https://www2.census.gov/library/publications/decennial/1910/volume-2/volume-2-p9.pdf
 * I am wondering if anyone has actually gone through the census records to verify the numbers listed on Wikipedia are correct, because many of them do not match what the census numbers are reporting. The current references under the population tables do not even directly link to the individual census returns, instead linking directly to the Census website. If one wanted to look up the Census results directly for every census taken, the current links to the Census website do not provide a clear path or way for one to look at the actual census results. I think the best way to solve this would be to just link to each individual census directly as I have done earlier in this message. I would be happy to provide sources for the rest of the censuses if you would like as well. 67.3.129.87 (talk) 20:47, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the reply! Adding a reference to the changes will go a long way.  The issue is that in the editors who are not logged in have changed numbers randomly as a bit of a prank.  I'm busy now, but today or tomorrow I can take a look at updating one of the articles and updating the reference.  You could then use that as a template.  Sadly the US Census has not kept their URLs similar between census, so updating recent census info is tricky.  Also at one point the 2020 census data was not yet finalized, which meant that some editors were updating pages and others were saying "No! No! Wait!".  I feel I owe you a bit of an apology for assuming the worst and am happy to work with you on getting these updated.  Cxbrx (talk) 22:11, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Ugh, what a mess. I updated the 1890 population of Virgina City from 6433 to 8511 as per the source you found (https://www2.census.gov/library/publications/decennial/1910/volume-3/volume-3-p2.pdf). See my .  As this uses Template:US Census population, it is not possible to have references for individual years.  The table uses Moffatt 1996 as a source, which is not online.  The  was made by  in 2010.  My guess is that Moffatt is incorrect?  As Moffatt is not online, I think we should go with the US Census web page of the 1910 document.  So, what I did is add the US Census website to which you refer as a shortened footnote to the table, then at the bottom in the "Sources" section added the citation to the web page and added "1890, 1900 and 1910 population".  I think the thing to do is to wait a couple of days and see if there is feedback to this change and then update the other articles.  In particular, I'm not sure of the order of the sources (alphabetic? chronological?)  To view other articles that use that web page, you can use the  External links search or .  I did not find any articles that link to the 1910 US Census web site uses for Virginia City, but there are pages that use https://www2.census.gov/library/publications/decennial/.  I looked at a few articles but did not find a similar situation where the web page is a shortened footnote for the US Census template.  Anyway, I wish it was easier to correct this sort of error.  Correcting the error and providing the source will make it easier for other editors to confirm the fix.  Many thanks for pointing these sources.  Cxbrx (talk) 15:04, 15 October 2023 (UTC)


 * I updated Stillwater, Minnesota. The 1900 data was wrong in the table and the 1910 racial distribution was wrong.  Please feel free to go ahead and update the populations, but be sure to include the reference.  Thanks!  Cxbrx (talk) 13:54, 17 October 2023 (UTC)


 * I looked in to Boise, Idaho and as per your link (https://www2.census.gov/library/publications/decennial/19/volume-1/idaho/1980a_idabcd-01.pdf), p. 9 corrects the population for 102 249 to 102 160. However, the 2000 databook at https://www2.census.gov/library/publications/2001/compendia/ccdb00/tabC1.pdf lists the 1980 population as 102 249, but the 1990 population listed was 135 150, whereas the WP article has the 1990 population as 125738.  To move forward, someone would need to find the most recent population for each decade on the census site.    I'm certain that other editors have worked on updating the census data.  Finding that community and following their best practices is probably the best way forward.  Sadly, the census.gov website is run by people who do not see the value in preserving URLs (ideally by providing DOIs).  I encourage you to find the most recent census data on the census website and update articles with references to that data.  I don't have the time to do this, so I'm going to move on.  Cxbrx (talk) 15:03, 20 October 2023 (UTC)