User talk:7300Mobas

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Managing a conflict of interest
Hello, 7300Mobas. We welcome your contributions, but if you have an external relationship with the people, places or things you have written about in the page Michael Sabom, you may have a conflict of interest (COI). Editors with a conflict of interest may be unduly influenced by their connection to the topic. See the conflict of interest guideline and FAQ for organizations for more information. We ask that you:


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Also, editing for the purpose of advertising, publicising, or promoting anyone or anything is not permitted. Thank you. Theroadislong (talk) 20:14, 7 February 2020 (UTC)

Michael Sabom
To be clear, if you have changes that you want to the article on Michael Sabom, please bring them up as suggestions at the associated talk page, Talk:Michael_Sabom. Any statement needs to be backed up by a verifiable source. The edits you were making looked like they were changing the slant of the article; changes like that are unlikely to be implemented. (See WP:NPOV.) I'll watch your talk page (this page) in case you want to reply to this message by editing here. Russ Woodroofe (talk) 21:39, 7 February 2020 (UTC)

You have a conflict of interest on Michael Sabom
You must stop editing the article about yourself, as you do not own it. Please see WP:COI and promptly declare your conflict of interest, or risk having your editing privileges suspended. All changes to the article Michael Sabom will in future not be made by you, only suggested on that article's Talk page. Other editors will add any material suggested by you following review for neutral point of view and relevance.--Quisqualis (talk) 21:20, 8 February 2020 (UTC)

February 2020
Hello and welcome to Wikipedia. When you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, such as at Talk:Michael Sabom, (but never when editing articles), please be sure to sign your posts. There are two ways to do this. Either: This will automatically insert a signature with your username or IP address and the time you posted the comment. This information is necessary to allow other editors to easily see who wrote what and when.
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Thank you. Theroadislong (talk) 18:21, 9 February 2020 (UTC)

Requested edits
1. Re: notability. I suggest adding a reference to highly-credentialed Dr. Patrick Glynn – Senior Technical Policy Adviser to the Deputy Director for Science Programs, US Department of Energy . Glynn is a Ph.D. graduate from Harvard University, a prior atheist, and author of the 1997 bestseller "God: The Evidence: The Reconciliation of Faith and Reason in a Postsecular World" < https://www.worldcat.org/title/god-the-evidence-the-reconciliation-of-faith-and-reason-in-a-postsecular-world/oclc/37310622>. In 37 pages of his book, he extensively quotes and references major key sections of my "Recollections of Death" to support the thesis laid out in his book title.

2. I have recently updated my Linkedin reference in the "Publications" section.7300Mobas (talk) 18:36, 19 February 2020 (UTC)


 * Linked In is not a WP:RS. Do you want us to write an article about Glynn?--Quisqualis (talk) 19:28, 19 February 2020 (UTC)


 * The answer to your question is "No".... And I agree, my suggested edit to Patrick Glynn is ambiguous and confusing. Thanks for pointing this out! 7300Mobas (talk) 13:56, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

Requested edits
'''NOTE: These edits are presented in the "X" for "Y" format (as this editor understands that to be). Russ Woodroofe's excellent STUB written from published reviews of Sabom's work has been retained and the suggested edits and references below have been added to Woodroofe's work in the "Career" section.Thanks for everyone's help! (I hope these edits are being submitted in the right place)'''

CAREER

EDIT 1: Addition of major national presentations Sabom has given on NDE.(also suggest using "NDE" for near-death experience and "IANDS" for International Association of Near-Death Studies as is commonly done on WP and elsewhere)

REPLACE THIS "X"

After finishing his training, Sabom spent a few years as an assistant professor of cardiology at Emory University [5] before moving into private practice.[3] He retired from private practice in 2017.[4]

Sabom is known for his work on near-death experiences. He is a founding member of the International Association of Near-Death Studies.[6]

WITH THIS "Y":

After finishing his training, Sabom spent a few years as an assistant professor of cardiology at Emory University [5] before moving into private practice.[3] He retired from private practice in 2017.[4] Sabom is known for his work on near-death experiences (NDEs). He is a founding member of the International Association of Near-Death Studies [6] (IANDS) and has presented his research at national professional meetings including the American Psychological Association, American Psychiatric Association, and Southern Society for Philosophy and Psychology.[4] [7]

EDIT 2: '''Addition of important medical information regarding Recollections of Death study and major reason for its notability. Hornbein review in high impact NEJM explores possible medical explanations for the NDE, scientific methodology used in Sabom's study, and difficulties faced in investigating an experience which lies on the threshold between science and theology. Marsh and Nuland criticisms added.'''

REPLACE THIS "X":

Sabom has written two books about near-death experiences. The first book, Recollections of Death: A Medical Investigation, was released in 1982. Sabom presented interviews with 116 people who had experienced a near- death crisis, which he discusses and classifies. This book was positively received for providing a relatively objective and medicine-based point of view, [7] [8]  though one reviewer speculated that the "author's wish to believe may have colored his analysis." [7] It has been cited over 800 times in scholarly works, according to Google Scholar. [9]

WITH THIS "Y":

Sabom has written two books about NDEs. The first book, Recollections of Death: A Medical Investigation, was released in 1982. It was positively received for providing a relatively objective and medicine-based point of view, [8] [9] and received some media attention.[10] [11] [12] It has been cited over 800 times in scholarly works, according to Google Scholar.[13

Skeptical at first, Sabom, along with psychiatric social worker Sarah Kreutziger, interviewed 116 persons over 5 years who had survived a near- death crisis event defined as "any bodily state that caused physical unconsciousness and would reasonably be expected to result in irreversible biological death if urgent medical attention was not given." [14]  Sixty – seven percent had experienced a cardiac arrest. A structured interview protocol (tape recorded when possible), background demographic data, medical documentation, assessment of death attitudes, [15] [16] and statistical analysis of results were applied.[17] [18] Seventy - eight of the 116 near-death survivors were prospectively interviewed without the investigators' prior knowledge of a possible NDE. Forty - three percent of this group reported an NDE. The remaining 38 cases were referred because of a previously known NDE. Sabom classifies the NDE into three types: "autoscopic" (self-visualization from an elevated "out-of-body" perspective), "transcendental" (a sense of movement into an other-worldly environment), and "combined" (autoscopic followed by transcendental experience).

This book is notable for presenting the "first prospective study of the accuracy of out-of-body observations during near-death experiences." [19] [20] Physical unconsciousness and an isoelectric (flat) electroencephalogram (EEG) occur 10 to 25 seconds after cardiac arrest. [21] [22] [23] Sabom reports 6 autoscopic NDEs containing accurate, idiosyncratic "visual" details of events which occurred greater than 25 seconds following cardiac arrest, [24] but before successful resuscitation.[25] The resuscitations all occurred in – hospital between 1973 and 1978, and 5 of 6 required electrical cardioversion. None of these persons admitted having had previous knowledge of NDEs prior to their arrest. Sabom found no medical or psychological explanation for these findings.[26]

Reviewing the book in The New England Journal of Medicine, anesthesiologist Thomas Hornbein writes:

Most intriguing to me are the out-of-body (autoscopic) experiences during resuscitations from cardiac arrests, in          which detailed descriptions of events seem almost to        demand a ringside seat somewhere near the light fixture on the ceiling. . . . [Sabom] systematically explores the possibility that these near- death experiences can be       explained as products of a semiconscious state; of        conscious or subconscious fabrication; of depersonalization; of hallucinations, delusions, or dreams with or without the assistance of a drug; of prior expectations; of endorphin release; of temporal lobe seizures; or of an otherwise altered state of consciousness. . . . [Sabom discounts] in turn each possibility based on rational but inconclusive arguments. . . .        Here, where scientific analysis confronts the mystical and religious aspects of dying, reasoned understanding is       inadequate to the task. One cannot help but wonder to what extent the author's own wish to believe may have colored his analysis of the events he has so painstakingly collected. [8]

Philosophy professor Michael Marsh found Sabom's six cases "certainly worthy of attention and of serious thought." However, "the degree to which these subjects were either unconscious or in a subliminal mode of existence has not been ascertained," leaving open the possibility of "a wholly neurophysiological explanation." [27] Sherwin Nuland, Yale Professor of Surgery and author of How We Die: Reflections of Life's Final Chapter, believes the NDE "will one day be proven to be driven, if not specifically by endorphins, then by some similar biochemical mechanism." [28]

3. EDIT 3:

'''1. Brief mention of Pam Reynold's case with criticisms from Harris and Woerlee and neurosurgical response. 2. Introduction and discussion of Christian view supported by 5 noted theologians since this is a key point. Note: Sabom was (correctly) introduced as a "confessing Christian" at the beginning of the BLP. 3. Bringing science and theology together. 4. Final point: NDE is not an experience of life after death according to Sabom.'''

REPLACE THIS "X':

The second book, Light & Death, was released in 1998. Similarly to the first book, Sabom interviews 160 patients following near-death crises. Although it still retained some medical and scientific aspects, this book is written from a more religious (Christian) viewpoint. [10] The book is notable for describing the Pam Reynolds case, a case of an NDE that has received some media attention [11] and which Sabom investigated. This work (particularly that involving Pam Reynolds) has been criticized by author Sam Harris for possible experimenter bias, unconscious witness tampering and false memories. [12]

WITH THIS "Y":

The second book, Light & Death, was released in 1998 and likewise received some media attention. [29] [30] [31] Similarly to the first book, Sabom interviews 160 patients following near-death crises. Although it still retained some medical and scientific aspects, this book is written from a more religious (Christian) viewpoint. [32] The book is notable for describing the Pam Reynolds case, a case of an NDE containing veridical elements which Sabom investigated and which is "the one most widely recognized as containing, to date, the most detailed and objectively corroborated content." [33]

This work (particularly that involving Pam Reynolds) has been criticized by author Sam Harris for possible experimental bias, unconscious witness tampering and false memories. [34] Anesthesiologist Gerald Woerlee argues that Reynolds' NDE is the result of "anesthesia awareness" during her brain surgery which required deep hypothermic circulatory arrest. [35] Woerlee's claim has been disputed by Reynolds' two neurosurgeons – Robert Spetzler, who has "performed more of these operations than any physician in the world," [36] and his assistant Karl Greene. [37] Explanations for Reynolds' NDE continue to be debated. [38] [39] [40] [41]

From a Christian theological standpoint, the apostle Paul describes an experience in 2 Corinthians 12:1- 4 during which he was "in the body or out of the body I do not know -- God knows." He repeats this statement twice for emphasis. Some theologians believe this experience may have occurred while Paul was stoned at Lystra and left for dead (Acts 14:19); [42] while others believe the circumstances surrounding this event are "highly speculative." [43] Despite this uncertainty, theological consensus would suggest the possibility that the spirit (or soul) may separate from the physical body prior to final death, as is claimed in the words of five prominent theologians over the past 125 years: i.e., "By allowing that he might have been out of the body at the time, Paul does grant the possibility of the soul leaving the body to be with God prior to irreversible, biological death." [44] Similarly, "The apostle here by implication acknowledges the possibility of consciousness and receptivity [e.g., hearing and seeing] in a disembodied state." [45] Again, "Plainly, though he [Paul] confesses that only God knows precisely what happened, he considers it possible for man's spirit to be temporarily withdrawn from his body even during the continuance of physical life." [46] Another concludes that "It is clear that the subject-self can leave the body even in this life." [47] And finally, "Paul allows for the possibility of his own temporary disembodiment." [48]

According to Sabom, the apparent veridical perception during an ("out-of- body") autoscopic NDE while the brain is severely impaired or unconscious combined with the theological possibility "for man's spirit to be temporarily withdrawn from his body even during the continuance of physical life," [45] allows for the possibility of a non-physical soul or spirit [49] temporarily separating from a dying physical body during an NDE. [50] [51]

But is the NDE an experience of the afterlife? "According to international scientific medical consensus, death is a biological, unidirectional [i.e., irreversible] ontological state of an organism, the event that separates the process of dying from the process of disintegration.” [52] Death occurs when intracellular, cytotoxic changes within dying neurons (i.e., brain cells) reach a "commitment point" from which there is no return. [53] Biblically speaking, the normative view of human death (without "divine intervention") is likewise described as "the path of no return" in Job 16:22 (see also Job 14:11-12; 2 Sam 12:23; 2 Sam 14:14; Eccl.12:6-7; and Heb 9:27). Therefore, as Sabom has consistently maintained, [54] [55] [56] the NDE is a reversible pre-death event which may point to, but is not a direct experience of, biological death and life after death as claimed by some. [57][58]

REFERENCES

1. through 6. Unchanged

7. Southern Society for Philosophy and Psychology: < http://www.socphilpsych.org/ >  Retrieved March 15, 2020

8. Hornbein, Thomas F. (1982). "Book Review: Recollections of Death: A Medical Investigation". New England Journal of Medicine. 307 (5): 324-325. doi: 10.1056/NEJM198207293070529 (https://doi.org/10.1056%2FNEJM198207293070529). ISSN 0028-4793 (https://www.worldcat.org/issn/0028-4793). Retrieved January 6, 2020.

9. Grosso, Michael (December 1981). "Book Review: Recollections of Death: A Medical Perspective (by Michael B. Sabom)" (https://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc799213/m1/1/). Journal of Near-Death Studies. 1 (2). Retrieved January 6, 2020.

10. Jacobs, Paul (March 29, 1982). "Near-Death Experiences: A Medical Debate over Body, Mind." < https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/389148970/ > Los Angeles Times. p. 1. Retrieved March 10, 2020.

11. Ohlendorf, Pat (Sept. 20, 1982). Q & A: Michael Sabom, "Dead men telling tales." < https://archive.macleans.ca/article/1982/9/20/dead-men-telling-tales > Maclean's. pp T2 – T4. Retrieved March 10, 2020.

12. Recollections of Death < https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/a/mary-renault-8/recollections-of-death/ > Kirkus Reviews, December 1, 1981. Retrieved February 26, 2020.

13. "Recollections of Death: A Medical Investigation (citations)" (https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cluster=15532816183644052519). Google Scholar. Retrieved February 9, 2020.

14. Sabom, Recollections of Death, 63.

15. Templer, D (1970) "The Construction and Validation of a Death Anxiety Scale." < https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/4394812/  > Journal of General Psychology 82 (2):165 – 177.

16. Dickstein, L (1972) "Death Concern: Measurement and Correlates"     < https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.2466/pr0.1972.30.2.563 > Psychological Reports 30 (2): 563 – 571.

17. Sabom, Recollections of Death, 5 – 17.

18. Sabom, Michael (Nov 23, 1979). "The Near-Death Experience" < https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/370521 > The Journal of the American Medical Association. 244 (1): 29-30. Retrieved March 11, 2020.

19. Long, Jeffrey (Sept-Oct 2014). "Near-Death Experiences: Evidence for Their Reality." < https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6172100/ > Missouri Medicine: The Journal of the Missouri State Medical Association. 111 (5): 373. Retrieved March 11, 2020. 20. Ring, Kenneth and Lawrence, Madelaine (Summer 1993). "Further Evidence for Veridical Perception During Near-Death Experiences" < newdualism.org/nde-papers/Ring/Ring-Journal of Near-Death Studies_1993-11-223-229.pdf >. Journal of Near-Death Studies. 11 (4): 224. Retrieved March 3, 2020.

21. de Vries, Jaap et. al. (July 1998) "Changes in Cerebral Oxygen Uptake and Cerebral Electrical Activity during Defibrillation Threshold Testing." < https://journals.lww.com/anesthesia-analgesia/Fulltext/1998/07000/Changes_in_Cerebral_Oxygen_Uptake_and_Cerebral.5.aspx >. doi: 10.1213/00000539-199807000-00005    Anesthesia & Analgesia. 87 (1): 16-20. Retrieved March 20, 2020.

22. Losasso Thomas, et.al. (Jan 1992) "Electroencephalographic monitoring of cerebral function during asystole and successful cardiopulmonary resuscitation." < https://journals.lww.com/anesthesia-analgesia/Citation/1992/12000/Electroencephalographic_Monitoring_of_Cerebral.25.aspx > Anesthesia & Analgesia. 75 (6): 1021-1024. Retrieved March 20, 2020.

23. Moss, Jonathan and Rockoff, Mark (1980). "EEG Monitoring During Cardiac Arrest and Resuscitation" < https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/373013 > Journal of American Medical Association >  244 (4) pp 2750 – 2751.

24. Chan, Paul, et.al. (Jan 3, 2008) "Delayed Time to Defibrillation after In – Hospital Cardiac Arrest"  The New England Journal of Medicine. 358 (1): 9 – 17.

25. Sabom, Recollections of Death, 81 – 115.

26. Ibid., 151-178.

27. Marsh, Michael (2010). Out-of-Body and Near-Death Experiences: Brain-State Phenomena or Glimpses of Immortality? Oxford: Oxford University Press. ISBN 9780199571505. (https://www.worldcat.org/title/out-of-body-and-near-death-experiences-brain-state-phenomena-or-glimpses-of-immortality/oclc/699558416 ) 123 -126, 131-132, 260.

28. Nuland, Sherwin (1997). How We Die: Reflections on Life's Final Chapter.< https://www.worldcat.org/title/how-we-die/oclc/41255016 > ISBN 009947641X 9780099476412. London: Vintage. p 138.

29. Broome, Kate (Producer). (2002) "The day I died: The mind, the brain, and near-death experiences." [Video]. A 14:46 minute excerpt posted August 16, 2016 by marius molac on Associated Press Video Archive and entitled "Pam Reynolds NDE/OBE Experience – from The day I died documentary." < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGeyzQQNoAU > Retrieved February 28, 2020.

30. Hagerty, Barbara Bradley (May 22, 2009). "Decoding the Mystery of Near-Death Experiences"  < https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=104397005 >  NPR. Retrieved February 9, 2020.

31. Brown, Bob (January 30, 2008) "Resuscitation Science: Is There a Third State of Being? ABCNews. <  https://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=4179894&page=1 > Retrieved February 28, 2020.

32. Gibbs, John (Winter 1999). "Book Review: Light & Death: One Doctor's Fascinating Account of Near-Death Experiences (by Michael B. Sabom)" < https://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc798967/m1/1/ > Journal of Near-Death Studies. 18 (2). Retrieved January 11, 2020.

33. Holden, Janice (2009) "Veridical Perception in Near-Death Experiences" in Holden Janice, Greyson Bruce, and James Debbie (Eds.), The Handbook of Near-Death Experiences: Thirty Years of Investigation. < https://books.google.com/books/about/The_Handbook_of_Near_death_Experiences.html?id=9MdUPgAACAAJ > Santa Barbara, CA: Praeger/ABC-CLIO: 193.

34.Harris, Sam (2014 09-09). Waking Up: A Guide to Spirituality without Religion (https://archive.org/details/wakingupguidetos0000harr) (hardcover) (1st ed.). New York: Simon & Schuster. ISBN 9781451636017. OCLC 881518331 (https://www.worldcat.org/oclc/881518331). p 174. Retrieved February 28, 2020.

35. Woerlee, Gerald (Fall 2011) "Could Pam Reynolds Hear? A New Investigation into the Possibility of hearing During this Famous Near-Death Experience"  Journal of Near-Death Experiences, 30 (1): 3 – 25. Retrieved April 7, 2020.

36. "Spetzler, Robert".  Retrieved April 19, 2020.

37. Rivas Titus, Dirven, Anny, and Smit, Rudolf (Holden, Janice (ed. English edition) (2016). The Self Does Not Die. < https://www.worldcat.org/title/self-does-not-die-verified-paranormal-phenomena-from-near-death-experiences/oclc/957669143&referer=brief_results > (ISBN 9780997560800) (OCLC 957669143) Durham NC: IANDS. 311-318.

38. Carter, Chris (Fall, 2011). "Response to "Could Pam Reynolds Hear?" < https://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc461722/ > Journal of Near-Death Studies. 30 (1). Retrieved February 26, 2020.

39. Marsh, Out-of-Body and Near-Death Experiences, 19-26.

40. French, Christopher (Sept 2005) "Near-death experiences in cardiac arrest survivors" < newdualism.org/nde-papers/French/French-The%20Boundaries%20of%20Consciousness%20Neurobiology%20and%20Neuropathology_2006--351.pdf > Progress in Brain Research. 150: 351-367. Retrieved March 20, 2020.

41. Greyson, Bruce, et.al. (2009) "Explanatory Models for Near-Death Experiences" in Holden Janice, Greyson Bruce, and James Debbie (Eds.), The Handbook of Near-Death Experiences: Thirty Years of Investigation. < https://books.google.com/books/about/The_Handbook_of_Near_death_Experiences.html?id=9MdUPgAACAAJ > ISBN 9780313358654. Santa Barbara, CA: Praeger/ABC-CLIO: pp 213 – 234. Retrieved April 1, 2020.

42. Ryrie, Charles (1978). The Ryrie Study Bible. < https://www.worldcat.org/title/ryrie-study-bible/oclc/778973106&referer=brief_results > Chicago: Moody Press, p  1766.

43. Groothuis, Douglas (1995). Deceived by the Light. < https://www.worldcat.org/title/deceived-by-the-light/oclc/31934375 > ISBN 1565073010. Eugene: Harvest House, p 132. Retrieved April 1, 2020. 44. Ibid., 132.

45. Alford, Henry in Lias, J.J. (1892). "The Second Epistle of Paul the Apostle to the Corinthians" in vol. 37 in The Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges ed. J. S. Perowne < https://www.worldcat.org/title/second-epistle-of-paul-the-apostle-to-the-corinthians/oclc/876911072&referer=brief_results  > OCLC 759784698. London: Cambridge University Press. p 125. Retrieved April 1, 2020.

46. Buttrick, George, ed. (1951). The Interpreter's Bible, vol. 10 (Corinthians, Galatians, and Ephesians). < https://www.worldcat.org/title/interpreters-bible-v10-corinthians-galatians-and-ephesians/oclc/926760005&referer=brief_results > ISBN 0687192161 9780687192168. OCLC 855170890. New York: Abingdon-Cokesbury Press. Retrieved April 1, 2020.

47. Stacey, W David (1956). The Pauline view of man: in relation to its Judaic and Hellenistic background. < https://www.worldcat.org/title/pauline-view-of-man-in-relation-to-its-judaic-and-hellenistic-background/oclc/246274179?referer=di&ht=edition > OCLC 59028293. London: Macmillan. Retrieved April 1, 2020.

48. Moreland, JP (2014). The Soul: How We Know It's Real and Why it Matters < https://www.worldcat.org/title/soul-how-we-know-its-real-and-why-it-matters/oclc/852658560 > ISBN 9780802411006. Chicago: Moody Publishers. p 66. Retrieved April 1, 2020.

49. Ibid., p 127.

50. Sabom, Michael (2003). "The Shadow of Death: Part One" < https:// www.equip.org/PDF/DD282-1.pdf > Christian Research Journal. 26 (2), 1-7. Retrieved February 28, 2020.

51. Sabom, Michael (2003). "The Shadow of Death: Part Two" < https://www.equip.org/article/the-shadow-of-death/ > Christian Research Journal. 26 (3), p 48. Retrieved February 28, 2020.

52. Joffe, Ari (Dec 2018). "Donation after circulatory determination of death – are the donors dead?"  Hastings Center Report. 48:54, pp S29 – S32.

53. Dreier, Jens, et. al. (2018). "Terminal spreading depolarization and electrical silence in death of human cerebral cortex" < https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/ana.25147 > Annals of Neurology. 83 (2): 295 – 310. Retrieved April 7, 2020.

54. Sabom, Recollections of Death, p 185.

55. Sabom, Light & Death, pp 49 – 50.

56. Sabom, "The Shadow of Death: Part One", pp 16 – 17.

57. Piper, Don with Cecil Murphey (2004). 90 Minutes In Heaven: A True Story of Death and Life. < https://www.worldcat.org/title/90-minutes-in-heaven-a-true-story-of-death-life/oclc/62777929 > ISBN 9780800726805. Grand Rapids: Baker Books.

58. Burpo, Todd with Lynn Vincent (2010). Heaven is for Real: A little Boy's Astounding Story of His Trip to Heaven and Back. < https://www.worldcat.org/title/heaven-is-for-real-a-little-boys-astounding-story-of-his-trip-to-heaven-and-back/oclc/1122770346&referer=brief_results > ISBN 9781404175426. Nashville: Thomas Nelson. 7300Mobas (talk) 21:12, 21 April 2020 (UTC)


 * This will not be done as it not only promotes its subject but is unencyclopedic in that it goes on at tremendous length and in excessive detail where such overkill is not warranted. You ought to seek another venue to broadcast your research findings.--Quisqualis (talk) 21:55, 21 April 2020 (UTC)