User talk:93.136.85.227

Wilmès Government
Hi The cabinet does not have any confidence from 38 MP. It is only a caretaker cabinet within the previous majority. --Panam2014 (talk) 22:08, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Stop your fake news. Michel II and Wilmès does not have the support of 38 MP. --Panam2014 (talk) 22:10, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
 * I actually agree with what you've done by removing the parliamentary support altogether for the Wilmès Government. I think the same should then be done for the Michel II Government as it is the same situation. The last government to have actually gained a confidence vote was Michel I, so both Michel II (listed under its article as having the support of 52 MPs) and Wilmès never had a majority technically, but the were rather just tolerated by the combined opposition which didn't go forward with a no confidence vote. By the way, I wasn't arguing that Michel II had 38 MPs as well but I was just going by the logic laid out in the Michel II article, by which he had the ''support of 52 MPS after N-VA left the coalition, but this is in fact also false. So I think your solution applied here is the best one --93.136.85.227 (talk) 22:20, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Michel II have been formed before the end of the legislature. Like to Cabinet Rajoy I in Spain during the 11the legislature. --Panam2014 (talk) 22:23, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
 * But Michel resigned on 18 December 2018 and the king accepted it on 21 December, meaning that from that point on it was a caretaker government pending either the dissolution of the Chamber or the naming of a new PM. So the 52 MP rule for Michel II applies only at best until 21 December 2018. Not to again mention that since Michel II continued into the 55th legislature, following the May election, there no longer could be 52 MPs supporting him since MR, Open Vld and CD&V had only 38 seats. The main point here, as the Michel II article itself points out, is that Michel I technically lasted until 18 December 2018 (despite N-VA leaving on 9 December already). Thus Michel II was from the start a caretaker government and NOT a full government from 9 December 2018 until 18 December 2018 and then a caretaker government from 18 December 2018 until 27 October 2019 --93.136.85.227 (talk) 22:34, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Michel II have been formed as minority government. Wilmès have been formed as caretaker (it is the first time in Belgium's history). --Panam2014 (talk) 22:37, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
 * But the problem is that there are several criteria to determine when Michel II began, and these criteria seem to be mixed up in this case. *The first criteria is the partisan make-up of the cabinet itself. So in this case Michel II began when N-VA left Michel I (9 December 2018) and the resignation of Michel (18 December 2018) had no effect on the name of the government. In this case Michel II would indeed be a full minority government (52 MPs) but only until 18 December 2018, when it became for all respects and purposes a caretaker government. *The second criteria is the duration of the PMs term (from appointment to resignation or dismissal). According to this criteria the partisan make-up and status of the government (majority or minority) would not be crucial. Thus Michel I would be a four-party majority government until 9 December 2018 and then a three-party minority government until 18 December 2019, when it is transformed into Michel II by the king's re-appointment of Michel as a caretaker until elections and a new government. In my view the first thing to do is to agree when Michel I ended and why (did it end because N-VA left or because Michel resigned?). In any case neither Michel II nor Wilmès ever had a vote of confidence in them by the Chamber, they just survived in office by never facing a no confidence vote which would trigger a new election again. --93.136.85.227 (talk) 22:47, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

Michel II have been formed on 9 December. --Panam2014 (talk) 17:42, 29 October 2019 (UTC)