User talk:A7V2/2020/July

1935 Donington Grand Prix - Qualifying Order
It is my understanding that if you set the same time as someone in qualifying whoever set it first gets the position, therefore there cannot be multiple drivers in the same position? Can you please clarify if you think differently. FozzieHey (talk) 12:56, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
 * That is how it works in F1 today (and most other race series), but not necessarily back then. The cars didn't line up in the correct order anyway, and in the cases they were it looks more like they used car number. Without knowing which it is we can't know for sure. You can change it if you really want to. A7V2 (talk) 13:00, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
 * In the source there is a clear qualifying order, which I used to assume that the same operated back then. Unless you have any evidence to the contary I think we should keep the order listed in the source. FozzieHey (talk) 13:01, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Which source? The MS magazine database? That source is unfortunately often riddled with errors (this has been discussed a few times at the Motorsport Wikiproject but I'm happy to raise this there if you like). Doug Nye's book and both have the grid order showing the cars out of order if that's what you mean. A7V2 (talk) 13:05, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm not going to change your edit to the quals but I'll note that the reason I put "=" was that the reason for including the table in the first place is to show the practice times (to call them qualifying times is slightly misleading but I've given up on that argument as consensus in the Motorsport wikiproject is to keep it as qualifying if it sets the order of the grid). Did Rose "beat" Bira in the practice session? They set identical times (up to the accuracy of the timing) after all, and as I said we don't KNOW who set the time first or if that was even a factor in determining the starting order. But it isn't hugely important anyway. A7V2 (talk) 13:29, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
 * If it's really practice feel free to change "Qualifying" to "Practice" (I just took the title from the source). Again it doesn't say when the times were set (unless it does in your book) but I would presume the order in the MS Magazine Database would respect this, if they had this information. It's a tough decision. FozzieHey (talk) 13:32, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
 * This is of course just my opinion, but I feel that motorsport statisticians of today, especially those creating these online "databases" try to make everything fit into the modern view of how motor racing should look. The neat and tidy order of practice/qualifying times was not something that used to be published (at least not all the time), tie-breakers were often arbitrary, and cars often didn't line up in the exact right order anyway. Most "reliable" sources (eg Nye's book in this case) don't specifically list an order of practice times, just a diagram of the starting grid with the times each driver (or car in some cases if regulations allowed a different driver to qualify the car). I believe (but can't be sure of course) that the MS magazine database has just used where they started on the grid as a tie-breaker, even though for example Handley started near the back even though he set one of the better times. A7V2 (talk) 23:51, 14 July 2020 (UTC)