User talk:ABXDataLogic/Archive 1

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Placenames in Kosovo
Please, before making or discussing changes to the names used in all Kosovo-related topics, review carefully our general naming conventions and the specific ones on geographic names, using English & settlements.

In short, they ask us to reflect common English usage (which will often will be a local name, or one of them; but not always), because those are the forms our intended readership of English speakers would most easily recognize.

For a number of historical reasons, the English language has adopted the Serbian forms. We merely restrict ourselves to reflect this usage. Wikipedia is not a venue to advocate the adoption of the Albanian names by the English language.

The names will be modified only if the English usage itself changes to something else, or if our current naming conventions themselves are amended to "reflect local usage instead of English one".

If after carefully reading the naming conventions you still have any doubts, don't hesitate to ask me about it :-) Best regards, Ev (talk) 09:00, 20 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Dear Ev,


 * As per your message, I agree that for historical reasons, the English-speaking world recognizes Serbian nomenclatures of Kosovan cities, towns, villages, mountains, etc. Nonetheless, a NEW convention must be made. Because Kosovo is now independent and the primary language is Albanian (followed by Serbian, the second official language), then all the names should be in Albanian followed by the Serbian counterparts. This is the logical way to go because new historical events have always CHANGED things in the world. Kosovo's independence, a new historical event, will surely change the way the English-speaking world recognizes the new state. Therefore, Wikipedia should be as neutral as it could get, but it should also respect the new state, not the ways the English-speaking world know the new state...-- A rbë r 09:07, 20 February 2008 (UTC)


 * First, excuse me for copying your message here, but I like to keep conversations coherent :-)


 * If you want to change the current naming conventions of the English Wikipedia, you're free to propose your desired modifications at the appropriate talk page (for example, at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions :-) However, while the current conventions remain in place, they should be respected: our naming conventions are an official policy of the English Wikipedia.


 * Having said that, I can imagine that the new circumstances of Kosovo's independence may well bring about such a change in English usage, so that at some point in the future the Albanian names may become the norm. When/if this happens, Wikipedia should reflect this change, but not before.


 * Bear in mind that Wikipedia is descriptive, not prescriptive. We cannot declare what an English usage should be or will be, only what it currently is. - Best regads, Ev (talk) 09:32, 20 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree with your viewpoint, and I will suggest my changes to the related page. I just thought you were dealing with the suggestions :). As for Wikipedia, in theory, yes, it is descriptive. In practice, well, I share a different opinion, for now :).-- A rbë r 09:36, 20 February 2008 (UTC)


 * lol I know: at the moment, in many fields it's in theory only :-) And yet, it's what we're supposed to strive for. I feel obliged to tell you that I don't see much chance of such modifications of the current naming conventions ever gaining consensus; but you'll loose nothing by trying.


 * By the way, please don't remove WikiProject Serbia's templates from Kosovo-related talk pages. Read this previous discussion on the issue (it's part of an archive, so please don't edit that page :-). Best regards, Ev (talk) 09:57, 20 February 2008 (UTC)


 * By the way, I made the suggestions at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions. How long does it take for sb. to respond?-- A rbë r ( Let's Talk ) 10:12, 20 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Anything from a few seconds to a few hours. But for a consensus for a change to emerge, it could take weeks. (I know, I have been down that path before :-) Best regards, Ev (talk) 10:14, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Dont change pages

 * Please stop adding albanian category in Croatian & Slovenian articles as in Illyrian provinces and stop changing ancient Greek to illyrian or else you will be reported on all these accounts. Megistias (talk) 09:37, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
 * You are right, I was supposed to discuss them. But I don't think I like your tone of voice. You could be more polite, I guess, given that I am not as experienced as yourself...-- A rbë r 09:50, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I said please twice.You added albanian categories in illyrian provinces that have to do with Croatia and Slovenia and changed sourced pages.Please be careful of what you are doing slovenia is very far from albania and reading the articles you want to change first and then considering their changes is the way to go.Megistias (talk) 09:53, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Listen, Megistias, I am very aware of every country's geographic position. And because even the U.S. Library of Congress accepts the fact that Albanians are the direct descendants of Illyrians (which states that Albania is Illyria), then I believe you should consider it as well. But thanks for dropping by...-- A rbë r 09:56, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Read wikipedia rules and how things work here and what sources are.Megistias (talk) 09:57, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Speaking of theories, Arbër, the Illyrian-Albanian link is just a theory, and in my personal opinion not the brightest one: the current thinking about ethnogenesis points to a much different approach to such issues.

I know that Megistias' tone is rather... well, you know... but I would recommend you to listen to him in this case, and avoid further edits of that kind until a little discussion on the issue of having the templates or categories in Illyrian-related articles takes place (perhaps at Talk:Illyrians?). The topic is rather sensitive, and it's better to thread lightly on it.

We're encouraged to be bold, but once someone objects to our bold actions, it's better to take a step back and discuss the issues, to see also what other editors think (a reality-check of sorts). You can't imagine how many times my own bold actions have been objected in a similar way... and several times the objections were well founded :/ Regards, Ev (talk) 10:31, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Blocked
I've blocked both you and for revert warring on Serbia. Block duration is 24h for you (as a first offender), it's longer for the other guy as a repeat offender, but that doesn't really mean your behaviour was better than his. Fut.Perf. ☼ 16:08, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

In a 2007 arbitration case, administrators were given the power to impose discretionary sanctions on any user editing Balkans-related articles in a disruptive way. If you, you may be placed under sanctions including blocks, a revert limitation or an article ban. Thank you. Fut.Perf. ☼ 16:08, 21 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't think there exists a strong logical basis for blocking users (like myself) who edit articles ACCORDING TO the FACTS (e.g. "Kosovo declared independence from Serbia"), and who leave messages in the respective talk pages about the edits they make. Frankly, I don't really strive to see neutrality in such articles, but I pursue to base edits on FACTS! All the best!--ArbërLet's talk 16:49, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

So, you "don't strive to see neutrality"? Well, thank you for admitting it so frankly. Unfortunately, that really means I should ban you for good, here and now. Please reconsider. WP:NPOV is the most basic, absolutely non-negotiable content policy of this project. Everybody must strive for neutrality at all times. If you don't, you will be a disruptive element and I can tell you you will be kicked out pretty quickly. Fut.Perf. ☼ 06:22, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, I believe you've heard about the straw man fallacy, and I suspect you've just committed one. In a few words, the straw man fallacy occurs when you take sb. else's argument and modify it according to your logic in order to attack the modified version. In fact, what you don't realize is that you're attacking your argument. So, regarding what I expressed above, let me rephrase it. I clearly emphasized that in articles regarding hot topics such as Kosovo's independence it is hard to strive for neutrality, but by employing ALL THE FACTS, one can reach a desired level of TRUTH, and hence, neutrality.
 * Also, regarding your "threat" of banning me, I don't really think that's a viable expression as far as it concerns Wikipedia's viability, given your administrator status. Now, in lieu of threating to ban people, try to comprehend their arguments!--ArbërLet's talk 07:23, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

I would kindly ask you to remove my blocking. Before editing the article about Serbia, I actually discussed the proposed change, and then committed the change. Thanks!--ArbërLet's talk 09:16, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Të Tjera
Vëlla shqiptar, Kam nevojë për ndihmën tuaj rreth seksionit të historisë në faqen për Kosovën. Elementë proshkije po e sfidojnë pa arsye, megjithë referencat që kam ofruar.--Getoar (talk) 19:22, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Patjeter! Ate faqe e kam nen vezhgim te vazhdueshem. Me bllokuan dhe me kane derguar edhe emaile, por kam kontaktuar nje administrator dhe pres pergjigje. I kam derguar disa referenca faktike, duke i meshuar idese se FAKTET sherbejne per WP:NPOV, por ende s'ka ardhur pergjigje. Gjithesesi, duhet ndjekur faqja e Kosovës.--ArbërLet's talk 19:36, 23 February 2008 (UTC)