User talk:AFBorchert/Archives/2017

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Liam O'Flaherty and Dúil
Hi Andreas,

I just did a load of work on the Liam O'Flaherty article so I was looking for someone who knows the topic and could take a look. Not urgent at all, but if you can take a look anytime in the next few months, that would be great.

One thing I'm unclear about is a comment by A. A. Kelly in the introduction of Liam O'Flaherty: The Collected Stories:


 * one Irish language collection of eighteen stories, Dúil ... At least two of the Irish stories 'Daoine Bochta' and 'An Fiach' (both written in 1925) were originally composed in Irish. The other stories in Irish were translated or recomposed into their English language version. Until the 1950s it was difficult to get Irish language work published.

When she says two stories were originally composed in Irish, does she mean that the other 16 were not originally composed in Irish? Or might have been not originally composed in Irish? I.e. they are just Irish translations by O'Flaherty of stories he previously wrote in English?

I'll put some more work into the article some other time. If there's anything you think should be expanded, let me know. Thanks. Great floors (talk) 18:48, 5 August 2017 (UTC)


 * Hi Great floors, let me congratulate you first for this major improvement of the article about Liam O'Flaherty. I quickly glanced through your changes and they appear to be good. Unfortunately I have no time right now for in-depth checks. And so much work is still left to be done :) Regarding your question: Liam O'Flaherty commented on his Irish writing in 1927 in an article published in The Irish Statesman (vol. IX, no. 15, 17 December 1927, p. 348) George Jefferson's summary of the article: “Gives reasons why he rarely writes in Gaelic – difficult to find a printer for such work, the Gaeltacht Commission was unhelpful when he and Pádraig Ó Conaire wished to write plays in Gaelic and when he went ahead he was never paid for the play he wrote. Because his father did not want his family to speak Gaelic, the first language he spoke was English but at the early age of seven he rebelled against this and persuaded the family to use Gaelic. Nevertheless he decided that he would not write in Gaelic in the future, not for money, but ‘to please his wife, Edward Garnett, and himself.’ Letter was a response to criticism of him from Una McC. Dix and Padraic Colum.” (See George Jefferson, ”Liam O'Flaherty: A descriptive bibliography of his works”. ISBN 0-86327-188-X, p. 131.) The Irish play he refers to is Dorchadas which was performed in Dublin in 1925. From the very same bibliography (p. 133) I am able to list the very first publications of his Irish short stories:
 * Fód: Dublin Magazine, I(10), May 1924, 882–883.
 * Bás na Bó: Fáinne an lae, 18 Iúil 1925, 5. The English version The Cow's Death was published before in New Statesman, XXI(533), 30 June 1923, 364.
 * An Fiach: Fáinne an lae, 27 Meitheamh 1925, 5.
 * Daoine Bochta: Fáinne an lae, 29 Lúnasa 1925, 3. The English version Poor People was published one month later in Weekly Westminster, IV(22), New Series, 26 September 1925, 548.
 * An tAonach: Fáinne an lae, 5 Meán Fómhair 1925, 3.
 * An Chulaith Nua: The Irish Press, XVI(147), 21 June 1946, 2. The English version The New Suit was published before in  Household Magazine, XLIII, September 1943, 4, 9.
 * Teangabháil: Comhar, Iúil 1946. The English version The Touch was published first also in 1946 in Irish Writing, No. i, 1946, 50–58.
 * Jefferson also notes on p. 132 that when Liam O'Flaherty returned back to Ireland after World War II and six years abroad that “he expressed a more nationalistic wish for a Gaelic revival and wrote a number of stories which were collected in a volume entitled Dúil.” Quote from an interview with Liam O'Flaherty from The Irish Press, 13 May 1946, p. 4: “I would go so far as to forbid the speaking of English altogether for ten years. I would make Irish as compulsory as English was in 1848.” (Quote by Jefferson. Unfortunately I do not have ad-hoc digital access to these journals.) Kelly's remarks in the introduction of The Collected Stories are to be taken with care as in her list of sources for the stories she claims that Bás na Bó and Daoine Bochta were published first in Dúil which does not appear to be correct considering Jeffersons bibliography which was published six years before. In her statement, as I understand it, Kelly tries to be careful as it is hard to determine whether one of these stories was written first in Irish or English as O'Flaherty translated in both directions. For example, in a letter written in July 1925 to Edward Garnett, O'Flaherty notes “I translated ‘The Cow's Death‘ into Irish and it appeared last week in the organ of the Gaelic League [..].” And in the very same letter: ”By the way I wrote this sketch ‘Poor People’ in Irish first and then translated it into English.” (See The Letters of Liam O'Flaherty, edited by A. A. Kelly, letter 129, pp. 124–125.) I hope this helps. Regards, AFBorchert (talk) 20:17, 6 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Hmm. This clarifies a few points but also raises new questions.  I'll have to read some of his non-fiction and then come back to the article and reread your comment later this year.  (I'll probably have more questions then.)  I think I'll be able to get a copy of The Letters of Liam O'Flaherty in September.  Thanks for all this info! Great floors (talk) 22:18, 8 August 2017 (UTC)