User talk:ARoseWolf/Archive 1

Welcome!
Welcome to Wikipedia, Tsistunagiska! Thank you for your contributions. I am Whisperjanes and I have been editing Wikipedia for some time, so if you have any questions, feel free to leave me a message on my talk page. You can also check out Questions or type at the bottom of this page. Here are some pages that you might find helpful: Also, when you post on talk pages you should sign your name using four tildes ( ~ ); that will automatically produce your username and the date. I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Whisperjanes (talk) 17:01, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
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 * @Whisperjanes Thanks for the cookies. Yum-Yum, they look delish!!! Tsistunagiska (talk) 13:56, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Extended welcome (and suggestions)
I saw your post on WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America, so I wanted to say hi and welcome! :) I'm glad you're willing to share your expertise on Wikipedia (it is definitely needed), and I appreciate you taking the time to improve the Cherokee society article. I've added a welcome message to the top of this page that gives some information about Wikipedia - I hope you find it useful.

Since I've seen some of your first edits on the article Cherokee society, I wanted to offer some friendly advice on how to make your edits better. I highly recommend you read WP:RELIABLE, which is a guideline on what the English Wikipedia community considers to be a "Reliable Source". I also recommend you read the much shorter WP:SELFPUB, about using self-published sources. A few of the links you cited seem like they are not reliable enough, because they seem to be "self-published" sources - specifically https://bearriverkansas.com/ (which seems to be for a Role playing game) and https://cherokeehazel.wordpress.com/. It would be better to replace those sources with more reliable ones, if you can.

I hope this helps and isn't too much information at once! If you have any questions, feel free to leave me a reply on this page by using the text  in your message. Or, you can leave a message on my talk page. Best, - Whisperjanes (talk) 17:41, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
 * @WhisperjanesI will endeavour to find more reliable sources. These are all things we know are true and I never quote or use information from any source that isn't accepted as truth. It's hard to find sources for some items as most official Cherokee sites do not share historical/spiritual data and rather allows locals and storytellers to share this information. I will also read the information you provided. Thank you.--Tsistunagiska (talk) 18:13, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
 * It can definitely be hard to find "reliable" sources for Wikipedia, and that's unfortunately what makes sharing certain information more difficult on Wikipedia. I'm glad you're looking into some books, though! I wish that storytellers themselves (or all types of oral history) could be referenced as a reliable source on Wikipedia, but so far, there hasn't been a way to do it (I assume because it would be too easy to spread false information that way). - Whisperjanes (talk) 20:21, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Absolutely!! It can be especially frustrating because I know the stories. I know what has been taught but I can't reference what is in my mind as of yet so I keep digging and researching to find something reliable to confirm what I have been taught. It is extremely rewarding when you find it. :)Tsistunagiska (talk) 20:24, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Women in Red
Osiyo, Tsistunagiska, and welcome to Women in Red! First of all, thank you so much for your kind words on my talk page. The main reason I contribute regularly to Wikipedia is that I really enjoy it. I find it rewarding to see how we are able to make slow but sure progress in a number of important areas, especially in connection with women. On the basis of the informative additions you have made to Cherokee society, it looks as if you are going to be a useful member of our project. You already seem to have a pretty good grasp of the basics of editing but you might find it useful to go through The Wikipedia Adventure. Once you feel ready to create your own biographies, you might like to look at our Ten Simple Rules. Please let me know if you run into any difficulties or need assistance. Happy editing!--Ipigott (talk) 13:42, 18 August 2020 (UTC)
 * @Ipigott Well, you have successfully brought me to tears this morning. Happy tears! :) The tasks can be very grueling at times so I just like to offer encouragement where I can. I can't explain why you stood out to me when I was going through the list of participants but you did, even before I read your page. And then I saw why. You are an incredible person and I just had to tell you that. I am making daily changes to the referenced article and picking up on suggestions and tips. The article will look significantly different once I really get comfortable with editing and the goal is to, one day, start and build relevant articles myself. I am also a member of the Cherokee Wikipedia Community but unfortunately I am not, currently, a fluent speaker/writer. I am working to rectify that. So I am just promoting the community until we can get some fluent speakers/writers in to actually critique and write articles themselves.

Recent edit reversion
In this edit here, I reverted some information that appears to be a violation of our copyright policy.

I provided a brief summary of the problem in the edit summary, which should be visible just below my name. You can also click on the "view history" tab in the article to see the recent history of the article. This should be an edit with my name, and a parenthetical comment explaining why your edit was reverted. If that information is not sufficient to explain the situation, please ask. S Philbrick (Talk)  13:15, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
 * @ S Philbrick I will rewrite the section however that site you listed is not the originator of the information provided. As a matter of fact, I have a lesson plan from the Cherokee Nation that I modified to write this section. I am simply provided sources outside of it to add credibility to what I was writing. The site you provided was not used as a source in this instance because it is one of dozens found to contain the same information that originated from James Mooney's "History, Myths and Sacred Formulas of the Cherokees" published in 1900 and Thomas E Mail's "The Cherokee People" published in 1992.

Isabel Cobb
Sorry to pull you around but I figured Ian might being get tired of us by now. LOL. So, Isabel Cobb is going to be a fun one. First female physician in Indian Territory. I'm just starting to get information on her but there appears to be a wealth of it.Tsistunagiska (talk) 19:04, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
 * No worries. Ian is really very patient, or that is my experience with him. Glad you are finding sources. That is always the hardest part for women. SusunW (talk) 19:29, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
 * One sentence in particular that I read about her life that really made me emotional was the fact she adopted an Italian orphan boy. My mother died when I was young and my father lost his will to live until he did take his life. So, in that sense I was an orphan. Her Italian son lived with her in Cherokee "territory". I was born in Cherokee "territory" but spent the first 11 years of my life in Italy. While I have married, once, I never had children but adopted my daughter who lost her mother who was of Italian descent. Similarities and connections abound.Tsistunagiska (talk) 14:24, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I just finished an article about Henrietta Mann, a Cheyenne from western Oklahoma. She helped design Native American studies programs in the US in the early 1970s. I felt a huge connection to her, as that was one of my majors in university and without her work the field wouldn't have existed. So yes, it is all about connections. SusunW (talk) 14:41, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * {re|SusunW}} I am tempted to contact the author of this book [1 ] and see if I can get permission to use the picture of Isabel in her buggy. That is such an amazing picture.Tsistunagiska (talk) 14:50, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Put the article on Isabel Cobb in draft form until I can add pictures. I have a few that are public domain by now as they were done prior to 1925 and I can t find where they are attributed to anyone. There is a picture of Cobb Hall on NSU's website. I may contact the university and see if I can get written permission to use that picture and attribute it to their website and university.Tsistunagiska (talk) 21:08, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

Sharing some drafts?
Do you mind if I share some American Indian/Native American + First Nations bios/articles that I'm drafting (or topics I come across)?

You seem to be a busy bee, so I don't want to put too much on your plate Wikipedia-wise (especially since I see you have a lot of your own topics you're pursuing). But I'd appreciate any extra eyes or help!

Otherwise, feel free to share any biographies with me, and I'll lend my own helping hands. I tend to focus on creative-related topics (games, artists, authors, dance, etc.), but I find myself working on pretty much anything on Wikipedia (jack of all trades, or so the saying goes). - Whisperjanes (talk) 06:24, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Are you kidding me!? I would love to collaborate together. and  have been helping me tremendously. I welcome you all critiquing and editing anything I do to make it better. I get emotional sometimes while reading about these incredible women like Isabel Cobb, whom I am working on now. I ran across a editorial written about her where this male doctor discusses her income, rather disparagingly in my view. Isabel grew up very poor, she walked some 10 miles to a one room school house until she went to the Female Seminary in Oklahoma. She put herself through the Glendale University in Ohio leaving everything she knew behind just to prepare herself for the University of Pennsylvania, which she got accepted into and graduated with her M.D. Then she took an internship on Staten Island taking care of hundreds and thousands of women and children, many of them immigrants coming into the US. It prepared her to go home to Oklahoma and care for the Cherokee and Muskogee and Crow and Kiowa women and children that came through her practice which she did out of a barn. Her pay may have been less but that's because she took less, sometimes nothing at all. And ALL of this before women could even vote. AMAZING!Tsistunagiska (talk) 13:51, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * , "I get emotional sometimes while reading about these incredible women" could sum up my editing history. As a kid in school, there were never any stories about women. It isn't easy to write their stories back into history, but the stories are begging to be told. I think it's cool that y'all found each other. It takes of village and lots of collaborators one trusts to build articles. The beauty of having a circle of people is that we all have different skills and can help each other create the best articles that we can. Glad to help in anyway I can. SusunW (talk) 14:01, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm always so excited to meet people doing this type of work on Wikipedia. Stories are incredibly powerful. I'm a programmer myself, but the first programmer I ever met in person was a man who said he started coding when he was 6 because his father told him he would give him $5 if he coded something in BASIC. After that, almost every programmer I met was a young man who started when they were in elementary school or younger. For some reason, I didn't realize how much these "stories" affected me until I was a young adult trying to get into the tech industry myself and oh, how nervous I was all of the time (and often still am, to be honest). I think it's so easy for stories to shape who we are and who we can see ourselves being, whether we realize it or not. Untold stories and representation are so, so precious. Thanks and  for your offers of help and kind words! I'm glad to have run into both of you :) Here are some drafts I've started, if you're interested in contributing: Draft:World Championship Hoop Dance Contest and Draft:Joyce Begay-Foss. The ones I'm having a harder time on are Draft:Beulah Melvin Allen, Draft:Hillel Echo-Hawk, and Draft:Sihasin, but that's because I'm not sure how much info there is out there about them. - Whisperjanes (talk) 05:58, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm finishing up an article and helping someone fix another, so need a couple of days to do that, but I'll take a look as soon as I can. I will circle back, I promise. SusunW (talk) 15:13, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I appreciate it! No rush :) - Whisperjanes (talk) 15:14, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
 * , I'll start perusing your list and see what information I can come up with. I apologize for being away for a few days. My family and I are preparing for winter so it's taking up the majority of my time but will settle in once we get the final preparations completed. I still have to finish the article on Draft:Connie Redbird Pinkerman-Uri. I have quite a good deal of information compiled and I have written out the first paragraph of the article. I just need to focus and complete it. I am always glad to assist anyone with anything they are passionate about, whether I am just as passionate or not about it. I have and would assist even if I disagreed with the premise of the subject or topic. I helped organize a rally once for the Lakota when they were protesting at Mt. Rushmore. I helped them even though I disagreed that they should even do it. I did give my reasons for why I disagreed and they listened. It made them think. See, the Lakota didn't own the Black Hills. They didn't even originate from there. They drove the Cheyenne out and conquered their lands through war. The Cheyenne conquered it from the Kiowa who are now located in Oklahoma and Kansas next to Cherokee and Muskogee lands which were taken from the Apache and given to nations displaced by Euro/American expansion. I told some Lakota leaders that I would have to protest their ownership of the lands in the place of the Kiowa who originated from there in the name of equality of causes. And I can't even prove that the Kiowa were the first to occupy that land. I know, its a long read but it may cause us to pause and reflect. History, whether its being written or has been written, is always seen through the eyes of the beholder. The stories deserve to be told but we have to approach them all from a place of wanting to learn as a student and not from a place of wanting to judge and rule on its merits.

Love each of you and I so appreciate all that you continue to do! :-)Tsistunagiska (talk) 17:30, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks . I finished my 2 projects and got access back to newspapers.com. Here's some additional info. She grew up in Wheatland, California,; first husband appears to be Finch, not Lynch, 2nd was Uri; and info on Wounded Knee.. You could probably upload the photo as fair use if you cannot find one that is freely distributable. SusunW (talk) 14:19, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much, lovely. I'm looking over this information now. Pictures that can be shared are always hard to come by.Tsistunagiska (talk) 14:29, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Indeed, so if you cannot find any, I can walk you through uploading that one as fair use. SusunW (talk) 14:48, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Hoop Dancing:, Do you want to try to compile a list of the winners? That might be hard, but we could try. SusunW (talk) 14:48, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
 * , the last two years champions are found at this site. 2018 (28th) found here
 * I figured out how to search the database, so it may not be as hard as I thought initially. I'll just add what I have found to the draft. SusunW (talk) 16:03, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I think I got the complete list in. Were it me, I'd give the background info in the two links I provided above. I'd change the hoop dancing link to Native American Hoop Dance and at top of the "Competition" section I would add to link the championship. SusunW (talk) 19:38, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
 * On Begay-Foss, it would be lovely if we could figure out what those "more than 20 awards" she won are, but for the life of me, I cannot find them. Were it me, I would put that in the lede and then take her live. SusunW (talk) 20:18, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Melvin Allen,,,; married Cremer between 1958 and 1959,, ; Then she disappears after 1960, no longer at Cornell; married Allen 1969. SusunW (talk) 21:21, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Apparently she stopped her schooling when she got married and went back after a divorce. and, ,,,,,, and , SusunW (talk) 22:58, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Awesome! Thanks for all your work so far, and the links! Sorry for the late reply - I was a bit busy the last day or so with family (and one of the random articles I've been working on that's been at AfC for months got rejected, so I had to do some digging for it to get accepted). Yeah, and for Begay-Foss, I couldn't find the specific awards either. I'll add the statement about having more than 20. Also thank you so so much for those Melvin Allen articles! I've seriously been looking everywhere about her but I guess the name change is what tripped me up (plus, I think I found another doctor that's from more modern times that has her same name?) I think I read somewhere that she was a major help for/part of the Indian Health Service early on, too, but I can't remember where I read that and haven't been able to find anything specific to back up that claim (other than that she was a part of the IHS). I'll have a look at all of those sources and add them to the article. - Whisperjanes (talk) 17:33, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
 * We all have real life commitments, no worries. I would not submit articles to AfC. They aren't trained in how to write or improve articles. Instead their goal is to review them to advise if they would stand up to a deletion nomination, as they were submitted. If you need help in evaluating them, far better to ask someone you trust to review it and then simply move it to article space. When you have successfully created 25 "valid" articles request autopatrol status. Yes, the other Dr. Beulah (Ream) Allen made the search much harder. She is also deserving of an article, which I am probably gonna write this month. I'm a research specialist, working on women and their name changes for decades, ultimately makes you one. LOL. Hint, I searched for "Beulah Allen, Navajo" in quotes for the whole last set of articles. Just let me know if you need more help and I'll pop in and give it a shot. SusunW (talk) 19:49, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Ahh, I see. Thanks for the tips! I'm glad to hear that explanation about AfC as well, because I have been using it as a feedback or a general review tool sometimes (but, as you've said, it's not always the most helpful for general feedback). I knew I wanted to apply for autopatrol status at some point, but now I have a clearer time frame, too. I'll let you know if I need any more help, thanks! Also,, Pinkerman-Uri seems very interesting. I'm excited to read more about her! - Whisperjanes (talk) 22:27, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
 * , I've done Beulah Ream Allen, so when you are ready to move yours to mainspace, we'll need to hatnote them. SusunW (talk) 21:30, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

Isabel Cobb (redux)
Hope you don't mind that I recategorized the images over on Commons - I created a category so that anyone else who wants can more easily add images to it. Great work on the article, and please add mine to the chorus of welcomes you've been receiving over the past few days. -- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 17:03, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much for the welcome. I have no issues with legitimate edits of anything that I do. We are a community. The only request I ever have is that you tell me and show me what edits were necessary or may improve the article just as you have done. It's more for my knowledge and understanding than anything else. I want to share these "songs" with everyone but I want it to be "in tune". Btw, I grew up on Italian opera and classical folk. Tsistunagiska (talk) 17:10, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
 * You have excellent taste. :-)


 * The one other thing - I added some categories to the article as well. Nothing major, just a few things. -- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 17:23, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Welcome to The Wikipedia Adventure!

 * Hi Tsistunagiska! We're so happy you wanted to play to learn, as a friendly and fun way to get into our community and mission.  I think these links might be helpful to you as you get started.
 * The Wikipedia Adventure Start Page
 * The Wikipedia Adventure Lounge
 * The Teahouse new editor help space
 * Wikipedia Help pages

-- 15:40, Friday, August 28, 2020 (UTC)

September Women in Red edithons
--Megalibrarygirl (talk) 17:53, 29 August 2020 (UTC) via MassMessaging

One month anniversary
It's hard to believe it has been a month for me on Wikipedia as a contributor. I know, it's such a small amount of time compared to the years many of you have been here. I have met some very wonderful people and grown to admire and respect all of you who have made this an incredible experience so far. I just wanted to tag each one of you and tell you how grateful I am.
 * and, you were the first to welcome me to Wikipedia, albeit the Cherokee version. Our conversations lit the fire in me and it still burns. (btw, got a response from the CHC and they will be discussing something in the near future but I believe we will be getting some help)
 * , you the first to welcome me to the English version of Wikipedia. Thank you so much for sending those cookies and helpful tips.
 * and, you both have been so inspirational to me. I am on this path as a wikipedian because of you. You both are rare gems.
 * , I simply adore you. Thank you so much for your contribution to Wikipedia and your diligence to authenticity.
 * , I appreciate your corrections of my first major rework of an article. It helped me, more than anything, to see the standards here are very high and rightly so. It is editors/admins like you that patrol looking at new revisions that will keep Wikipedia the best encyclopedia around.
 * , I know we may had seemingly started off wrong but I want you to know that your contributions are appreciated. We may never completely see eye-to-eye on every issue but that's the beauty and spice of life. I am stubborn and very fiery at times but I have been taught to experience life through the view of others. Carry on, my friend!
 * , thank you so much for your kind words and your helpful hand in making articles better through your edits. You are amazing!
 * ,, , , , , and , thank you for contributions you have made to articles I have either written or reworked. Your efforts to make them better are appreciated and welcomed. You all rock!!

We are a community and, in my opinion, you all are my new Wikifamily. Cangleska Wakan, is the Sioux belief that we are all connected in a "sacred hoop". I cherish this belief as well. We all found each other in the way we have because of that connection. May the universe bring you fortunes and guide you on your path. May the Great Spirit grant us many moons together, my Wikifam.Tsistunagiska (talk) 19:00, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I am humbled. Thank you. SusunW (talk) 19:34, 3 September 2020 (UTC)\
 * , When one is a volunteer, the only "pay" one gets, (beyond self-satisfaction, which is not trivial), is thanks from fellow editors. I hope you serve as a model to others. S Philbrick  (Talk)  19:42, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much for the kind words!! Welcome again. =) When I read the portion of your text that mentioned longevity on this project, a quote from this essay that uses a curse word came to mind, for what it's worth. Best wishes to you again! Biosthmors (talk) 21:06, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you Tsistunagiska! Your expertise and interests are an invaluable asset to the Wikimedia movement! TJMSmith (talk) 21:46, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you, . You make Wikipedia a brighter place :) - Whisperjanes (talk) 22:05, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Nyawen'kó:wa ! Happy to help out in any way I can, and good to see you sticking around. James Hyett (talk) 02:13, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
 * It's not often, Tsistunagiska, we are able to welcome such an enthusiastic, competent and productive new member to Women in Red. Keep up the good work and thanks also for all your interesting contributions to our talk pages.--Ipigott (talk) 07:52, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Tsistunagiska, thank you for your excellent work and kind words. You have created good articles which is usually a difficult task for newcomers. To let you know, some of my initial articles were deleted via AfD that discouraged me badly, but i never gave up contributing to Wikipedia and finally it became my addiction. :D TheBirdsShedTears (talk) 11:17, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Please allow me to echo the sentiments above - I had meant to do so earlier, but let it get away from me. I can already see that you're a valuable addition to this project, and look forward to seeing the work you will do in the future. Happy editing! :-) -- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 19:03, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
 * No worries! You're working in good faith. See you on the editing trails! Green  Runner  0  03:13, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

Chilkat State Park
, I needed a little break from research and writing on Connie and so I found a neat little article about a state park I grew up near and visited countless times. I looked on here and found where it was referenced but red because no article had been written on it. I wrote a little piece on it, not much to it but well sourced. Now I just need pictures for it. Tell me what you think[1]. I'm sure there are some pictures, maybe on the state parks website. I could upload some of my own and call it published works but I do try to avoid that.Tsistunagiska (talk) 16:34, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
 * The article looks great! I fixed a link for you ;). You can upload your own work (I don't know how), but supposedly you just say you took it and you release it. Ask GRuban and he can help you. SusunW (talk) 21:39, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

A flower from my home

 * Thank you so much for the flowers. They are beautiful and even more special because they come from your home. I'll have to upload some of my best snapshots of flowers. I went through Alaska and Montana taking pictures of various flowers from each state on a whim one Spring/Summer. Lol.Tsistunagiska (talk) 13:52, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
 * (Don't forget to upload your flowers to commons and to articles about them!!) Regards, MargaretRDonald (talk) 20:56, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

AfD comments
Comments at AfD are not support or oppose. Instead they are in bold text, e. g., "Keep", "Delete", "Merge", "Redirect", etc. SusunW (talk) 17:11, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

October editathons from Women in Red
--Megalibrarygirl (talk) 15:11, 21 September 2020 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Rattling Blanket Woman
Perhaps you would like to look at this. It's up for deletion.--Ipigott (talk) 13:35, 25 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I responded to it. As much as I would love to keep the article, her only notability that I can find is that she is Crazy Horse's mother. I have researched her hard and every article she is mentioned in is surrounded by Crazy Horse. Nothing seems "stand a lone". It pained me to even suggest merging but that is the only way I can see giving her some of the recognition she deserves.Tsistunagiska (talk) 13:39, 25 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I should have looked more carefully at the deletion page. It just seemed a bit strange to me that an article created 15 years ago should now be up for deletion. As I'm certainly no expert on the subject, I would prefer not to comment. I see she's already mentioned in three or four other articles. There are so few articles on native American women in history that I think it would be a shame to delete it. Let's see how it goes. --Ipigott (talk) 14:23, 25 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I know. I took that into consideration as well. It absolutely pained me to agree that she didn't meet the notability requirements to be a "stand alone" article.Tsistunagiska (talk) 14:28, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

Koyukuk Wilderness
Will you do me a favor? I am looking at Koyukuk Wilderness found on the template for Protected Areas of Alaska (See the bottom of Chilkat State Park). An article is written on the Koyukuk National Wildlife Refuge. They are synonymous. I know this but I took a peek anyway to verify and almost anywhere you pull up "Koyukuk Wildreness" it says "Koyukuk National Wildlife Refuge". Would you mind just looking at it and giving me your objective view of the subject. You guys can look at it too and just give me your insight. It may just need to be redirected.Tsistunagiska (talk) 18:28, 25 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I totally agree. A quick search confirms that they appear to be the same. Repointed the name in the box to Koyukuk National Wildlife Refuge|Koyukuk. SusunW (talk) 18:34, 25 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I'm doing multiple things at once so I work a little here and then there. I'm still working the article on Pinkerman-Uri. In between I kind of poke around on the Cherokee articles/template and State and National Parks, when I'm not waging "war" over blatant biases. After all I am from the AniWaya (ᎠᏂᏩᏯ). (Lol) Tsistunagiska (talk) 18:53, 25 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I hope I have done the right thing. If the two are the same then it is useful for people to find the article under either name. I could not find Koyukuk Wilderness, so I created a redirect under that name to Koyukuk National Wildlife Refuge.MargaretRDonald (talk) 22:31, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

A Dobos torte for you!

 * Yum, thank you so much. It was very sweet of you to send this to me. As a side note: I finally succeeded in my attempts to ping you by looking at your talk page. Facepalm! (LoL)Tsistunagiska (talk) 17:34, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
 * You are not the first. God willing, you will not be the last.  Keep up the good work! Enjoy! 7&amp;6=thirteen (☎) 18:12, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

September/October 2020
Hello, I'm Netherzone. I've noticed some frustrations at AfD recently, and I just wanted to reach out, introduce myself, and share a couple WP Essays on deletion discussions that I thought you might like to read if you have not already: Arguments to make in deletion discussions, Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions, List of policies and guidelines to cite in deletion debates. These have been helpful to me, and if they are of interest, hope you enjoy them, too. Netherzone (talk) 22:09, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Here's a description of !vote and how it differs from a vote. Also helpful is this essay: Polling is not a substitute for discussion. And another useful one: Policies and guidelines. Netherzone (talk) 14:11, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I have seen these and still I believe the consensus should have been, at the least, no consensus. Both sides made compelling arguments based on the policies. This is a case of a personal opinion of the closer carrying more weight than the consensus indicates.Tsistunagiska (talk) 14:19, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I totally agree with you 100% that the outcome should have been No consensus or Keep. Netherzone (talk) 14:21, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

As the closures start rolling in...
... Pat yourself on the back! Celebrate a little with each keep (and the no consensus ones, if those happen). I think more will be kept than deleted. This work is intense and difficult. You're doing a good thing. Thank you! --DiamondRemley39 (talk) 21:22, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the kind words and also for standing up and being counted as well. I'm up to the task. I have fought years for recognition of American Indian/Inuit/Yupik tribes by state and federal government. My comments have been characterized as emotional responses. In reality they are very calculated and precise. I have faced nearly every response they could possibly throw out at me before. It's the same old and tired rhetoric.Tsistunagiska (talk) 13:29, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Diversity and heterogeneity of the editors is one of the strengths of Wikipedia. We all come from different places, and that is a good thing.
 * Further, the encyclopedia suffers from Systemic bias. English, American and British sources are favored, and a trend toward recentism and the internet all skew the articles and the discussions about them.
 * Older important individuals whose sourcing go back a long ways are relegated to history, and culled from Wikipedia. It has been said that 'history is written by the victors.'  And sourcing to other languages and cultures and old texts is problematical at best.
 * IMO, repeated pointless attempts at deletion of multiple articles (including wholesale personages of similar race or nationality) is a problem for the encyclopedia. Whether the intent is "racist" or not, the effect is the same.  The results of those AFDs speak for themselves; and the nominator ought to rethink their rejected approach and better implement WP:Before.  WP:Duck.  These AFDs are a needless waste of editor time and resources; better to be editing the many articles that do need improvement.
 * You might want to open up the email channel, so that you can communicate privately.
 * Keep up the good work. Cheers.  7&amp;6=thirteen (☎) 14:27, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Agreed with the above - especially the thought about opening up email. (In fact, I might have a thought or two to share with you if you do that. :-) ) -- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 17:17, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Hmmm, I know I confirmed my email when I created my account over on the Cherokee Wiki. Oh well, I'll verify it and you should be able to email me then.Tsistunagiska (talk) 17:34, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes - I'm not sure that's the sort of thing that transfers between wikis. I suspect you have to confirm it for each language individually. -- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 17:35, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
 * What is the email feature? How does one turn it on? I am so clueless about so many features of Wikipedia. DiamondRemley39 (talk) 15:23, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm always finding new semi-hidden features that I didn't know about :) In your account Preferences, under "User profile", there should be an "Email options" section with a checkbox option to allow users to email you. - Whisperjanes (talk) 00:03, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

Cherokee towns
Can I get you two to do me a favor? It won't take more than a few moments. Please review the sources of Nacoochee Mound and tell me if the consensus of the sources is that the Cherokee were never present at Nacoochee mound. Don't look at anything outside the sources presented including the history of the article. I promise it won't take but just a moment.Tsistunagiska (talk) 15:13, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I see the text of the plaque in the image in this mentions the ancient Cherokee town of Gauxule.--Ipigott (talk) 15:21, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Agreed, it's not specifically true. Our history teaches that the Muskogee Creek inhabited the area until the battle of Taliwa in 1755. After this the Cherokee moved in and occupied the Creek settlements. The mound is consistent with others in which the Cherokee built their Town Council houses (the center of a Cherokee village) on the mound and had a pit in the center for the Sacred Fire. Whether the mound was already present or not is unknown. The evidence gathered did, however, reveal that the mound had two building stages, one much later than the previous, although equipment at the time was limited enough that dating could not be verified. The sources in this case seem to point to a minimal Cherokee presence relative to the overall existence of the village which would be consistent with historical data. The village was established around a thousand years or more before the Cherokee defeated the Creek at Taliwa. Two-hundred years versus over a thousand is relatively minimal. The source provided with this statement, "Sources differ on the possibility of later habitation at or near the site by Cherokee people; a historical marker on the site claims such habitation, but James B. Langford of The Coosawattee Foundation states that the excavation necessary to confirm this claim has not been performed.", is misleading and the statement constitutes a POV issue in my opinion. It says that sources differ but gives more weight to one side over the other. It would be better to say "Sources differ on the possibility of later habitation at or near the site by Cherokee people. (Then provide citations for sources presented on both sides). Even James B. Langford's assessment wasn't that Cherokee were not located at the site but that they hadn't produced enough archaeological evidence one way or the other because they haven't excavated enough of the area. That is not enough evidence to overturn historical consensus and it is not the place of Wikipedia to add conjecture or define what is relevant or not.Tsistunagiska (talk) 16:01, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Now let me explain why I asked you to review. The previous version of the article stated this in place of the above, "Unlike other Mississippian sites — and contrary to claims made by a historical marker at the estate on which the site exists — the Nacoochee Mound does not appear to have been occupied by the later Cherokee people." and provided no source for its assertion. Instead of deleting this statement I added a "Citation Needed" template asking that someone source this assertion because it goes against the historical data presented. I then added "Nacoochee" to the Cherokee template and linked it to the article. That was reverted by an editor closely linked to the article with the claim that I needed to prove the Cherokee were present rather than the statement made in the article be sourced and proven.Tsistunagiska (talk) 16:09, 6 October 2020 (UTC)


 * This sentence "Sources differ on the possibility of later habitation at or near the site by Cherokee people; a historical marker on the site claims such habitation, but James B. Langford of The Coosawattee Foundation states that the excavation necessary to confirm this claim has not been performed" is not remotely supported by the reference cited. The reference does not mention a historical marker, nor does it say any excavation is necessary. Instead it says "It is possibly the site of Nacoochee or Chota, two Cherokee villages documented for this valley during the 1715 expedition of Colonel George Chicken". Williams (2004) p 29 says evidence of Cherokee occupation is minimal, not not non-existent. The Heye et al, has many, many hits about Cherokee. So, quick analysis is there is no evidence in any of the accessible sources that say that. The rest are dead or off-line, so who knows? SusunW (talk) 16:13, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Absolutely my point. There is no evidence provided which says the Cherokee were not present or did not occupy the town as historical data presents after the Battle of Taliwa and subsequently the American Revolution. Langford isn't even asserting they weren't present. He is saying there isn't evidence to overturn historical data. When there is a lack of evidence to the contrary you go with the information provided. It appears this is a POV issue and my original edit of the article should not have been reverted. I wanted you both to objectively look at the article and present your views. Thank you. Tsistunagiska (talk) 16:19, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I had to take the editor making the reverts to ANI this morning. They made another revert saying that there is no proof the Cherokee were present even while the article mentions and even links to the Cherokee people. I listed it under Edit Warring.Tsistunagiska (talk) 14:25, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I am sorry for that. I do hope that it gets resolved. SusunW (talk) 14:36, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Me either. I was a bit overwhelmed in the beginning and made a lot of mistakes and had to do a lot of edits. I hope I presented enough evidence that an admin needs to get involved. I am trying to avoid edit warring. It is so pointless and ridiculous to edit and then have it reverted, not based on principle but on unfounded opinion.Tsistunagiska (talk) 15:46, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
 * , Totally agree. I will usually just walk away and go radio silent. My take is this is an encyclopedia I contribute to because I find it enjoyable. If it is not enjoyable, I move on to something that is. ;) I am a huge conflict avoider. SusunW (talk) 15:53, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I respect you and your way of avoidance. Sometimes I wish I was more like you. I have too much warrior blood in me. Sometimes it works in my favor and sometimes it doesn't. If anything ever happens and I am no longer here then I will move on and find some other way to be an impact on the world around me as I have done in the past. Might not be a bad thing. Until then I will continue doing what I do here. I don't ask for or even want praise for anything. The ones who appreciate it will find a way to let me know. The ones who don't, well, it is what it is.Tsistunagiska (talk) 16:09, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I love warriors. I am passionate about many things, but prefer to work in the background to effect change. I am really good at providing support (analysis, research, discussion, etc.) to those who are willing to be the "face". I think it takes a village to effect change and we need all the various skills to create an effective team. I truly hope that you continue to be a shining light here. SusunW (talk) 16:22, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Oh, lovely, there is no doubt your calling in life. You and others who do what you do are the real heroes in every cause. I am reminded of a story my grandmother told me of so many Jews who escaped Germany during WW2. She always said that the affluent ones who organized the escapes bore a lot of responsibility, politically and literally, and they typically were given lots of praise when successful but it was the ones who planned the routes, walked them out themselves, tested every angle and made sure each leg of the journey was mapped out and supported who were the real heroes. We don't hear their names or celebrate them specifically but I am here today because they did it. You are so valuable to this encyclopedia and to every cause you support with your grounded analysis, diligent and lengthy research and thoughtful discussion. There is no other Susun out there. Tsistunagiska (talk) 16:33, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

{od} Side note: My ANI was summarily dismissed with no action taken. Apparently you have to initiate/incite edit warring, yourself, with at least three reverts by the offending user in a 24 hour period before you can report them. Who knew the way to ask for admin intervention to avoid edit warring could only come after you initiate or engage in what you are trying to avoid? I asked what the process is if, say, the offending user waits 25 hours to make reverts which is outside the 24 hour window.Tsistunagiska (talk) 16:48, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Okay, so next time, looks like the way to avoid warring, but still get help is to ask an admin directly to assist? SusunW (talk) 17:07, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

Mail
I sent you a message yesterday via e-mail and failed to put a you've got mail banner here. Nothing urgent, just an FYI. SusunW (talk) 13:33, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I thought that was a weird new thing. I got it, love. I thought I responded but it didn't go through. I have this issue all the time. It's especially bad when trying to communicate with my family in other countries. Google hates me (LoL). --Tsistunagiska (talk) 13:40, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Or it could have been on my end what with the weather down here ;) SusunW (talk) 13:48, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes! Please, please, please continue to be safe! I looked it up after you mailed me and it looks very bad. Take care of you and yours, first.--Tsistunagiska (talk) 13:58, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

Sports seasons and bulk deletions <- see link here
Hi Tsistunagiska, hope all is well!

There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Demokra (talk) 19:25, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Women's Football / Soccer Update > October 2020
Subscribe or Unsubscribe here. --MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 05:28, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

He needs secondary sources in which he is significantly covered by someone who is independent and has no ties to him at all
explain please clearly then i can understand — Preceding unsigned comment added by Acafix2 (talk • contribs) 20:20, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Your friend, Teezio, needs to be talked about in big newspapers or media by people not connected to him in any way. Many places he needs to be talked about. It can not be just a little talking or maybe just a mention. He needs to be the main topic. Can not be Youtube, Instagram, Twitter or Facebook. It has to be real news. Also if he wins awards for anything, like major awards. Any minor awards can be added to an article but they can not be a source of notability. --Tsistunagiska (talk) 20:27, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

he have Grammy Awards And Riaa Awards of Chris brown and the Antarestech company sponsored him — Preceding unsigned comment added by Acafix2 (talk • contribs) 20:29, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Is Teezio actually named on the awards? --Tsistunagiska (talk) 20:31, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

Patrizio"Teezio"Pigliapoco that's the name in his billboard Award and Riaa Awards — Preceding unsigned comment added by Acafix2 (talk • contribs) 20:34, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
 * OK, I have to go now but I will look at the name as soon as I can and try to get familiar with him and any sources I can find. I will not promise anything or that I can help you. But I will look at it. --Tsistunagiska (talk) 20:38, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

https://www.instagram.com/p/BofixLahKni/ Awards −	https://www.instagram.com/p/BurvMxDAtiG/ Awards −	https://www.instagram.com/p/BwVT92WA0lq/ Awards −	https://www.instagram.com/p/BsZThRQANCa/ Awards −	https://www.instagram.com/p/B4qg2eRncfF/ Awards −	https://www.instagram.com/p/BdpikaPl7lw/ Pic in Studio while he record for chris brown −	https://www.instagram.com/p/BSClTD7jDsv/ pic with chris brown in studio −	https://www.instagram.com/p/BMUHhB9DfuX/ pic with chris brown −	https://www.instagram.com/p/BcoQPZaFYSU/ Awards −	https://www.instagram.com/p/BcA8ZXklS2l/ Awards −	https://www.instagram.com/p/BbIGP17FwNv/ Awards — Preceding unsigned comment added by Acafix2 (talk • contribs) 20:41, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

if you didn't see the name then i'll talk to chris brown manager to send me teezio award pics — Preceding unsigned comment added by Acafix2 (talk • contribs) 20:50, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

Talk to me here there is another Wikipedia Editor, involved
thanks for looking that links i've sent you, if he's on big news or something then he reiable? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Acafix2 (talk • contribs) 15:48, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

Pings
I just wanted to post a quick note to let you know that pings don't work if you add them after signing and publishing your changes (such as here). You would also need to re-sign your post when adding the ping for it to work. -- Jezebel's Ponyo bons mots 17:01, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

Wording
Regarding "forcibly removed", I was trying to use the same wording that is used for other similar situations around the world. For example Deportation of the Crimean Tatars and Category:Deportation. It seems that there is a double standard between how Indigenous Americans are treated and how Indigenous people in other countries are treated, especially those of "Enemies" of the US. If it's in the Soviet Union, it's "deportation" but if it's in the United States, it's "removal". I'm not against using "deportation" for the Soviet Union, that's what it was. I'd even go as far as to use "ethnic cleansing" if it weren't anachronistic, but I think "removal" when talking about the US is basically weasel wording. But then most US history regarding Indigenous topics is weasel worded out the wazoo. :) I'll make some edits here and there but I don't have time for edit wars.

Regarding Cherokee, my point was that this isn't a problem with Cherokee or the Cherokee orthography, it's a problem with transliteration systems. A good transliteration system would not have a problem with those words. At the moment the wording makes it sound like the Cherokee orthography is problematic, which it is not. There is a very nice paper by Stephen Bird on these kind of orthographic issues in Cameroon which I would recommend reading.

Anyway, thank you for your kind words. :) - Francis Tyers · 23:00, 16 October 2020 (UTC)


 * PS. I made a template for drawing attention to lack of Indigenous viewpoints. I'm not sure if you have seen it, but please feel free to use it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Indigenous It could be attached to basically any article dealing with the history of the "New World", but I've been distributing it slowly as an when I feel particularly shocked. - Francis Tyers · 23:02, 16 October 2020 (UTC)


 * I've had another bash at the wording about Cherokee transliteration. Feel free to revert it if you think it is still awkward. (Incidentally I have been working on orthographic conversion for Basaa today and that is how I came across the Cherokee article.) - Francis Tyers · 23:07, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

Teezio news source
http://dhunt.in/bqeLe https://www.antarestech.com/antares-feature-patrizio-pigliapoco/ http://www.pensadosplace.tv/chris-browns-engineer-producer-patrizio-pigliapoco/ https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/pop/9404760/rain-on-me-nija-charles-in-demand-interview — Preceding unsigned comment added by Acafix2 (talk • contribs) 11:08, 17 October 2020 (UTC) https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2073826/Cheryl-Coles-toyboy-Patrizio-Pigliapoco-Girls-Aloud-beauty-dating-music-producer.html https://metro.co.uk/2011/12/14/cheryl-cole-and-music-producer-patrizio-pigliapoco-inseparable-255449/

BS
Thank you,. You deserve this as much as me. Anyone who deals with the headache of trying to figure out the location of over 200 Cherokee towns, many with the same name, deserves a Barn Star and a big cup of coffee. This is something that will be here for generations to come and, hopefully, will spur the desire to learn more about the AniYvwiya, "Principle People", (ᎠᏂ ᏴᏫᏯ) and other American Indian nations just like them. For some it is too late. We have lost the knowledge of those cultures and it's sad. The plight of the American Indian does not belong to the Cherokee, Sioux, Arapaho, Choctaw, Apache, Kiowa, Cheyenne, Black Foot, Crow or Navajo alone. It is a collective. The lifesong of the ancestors runs through us all. Even for those who have no blood connection yet hear it's music in their hearts. It's our duty and privilege to learn and extend their Spirits into the future. Otsalanvlvi (ᎣᏣᎳᏅᎸᎢ) "We are all brothers and sisters" --Tsistunagiska (talk) 14:49, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

Precious
You are recipient no. 2459 of Precious, a prize of QAI. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:59, 24 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much. I am very honored by your kindness and your recognition. It is so thoughtful of you. --Tsistunagiska (talk) 13:49, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you! Consider bringing new articles to DYK (did you know ...?) - good for them to be noticed! New enough (less than a week, well referenced, and 1.500 characters of prose is all it takes. Please ping me when you have a candidate, - I can help you with the first one. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:56, 27 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Welcome to the cabal of the outcast ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:54, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I don't even know where to begin with DYK. I am so new it's all such a daunting thing to me. --Tsistunagiska (talk) 13:05, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Don't think of it as a pressure, just an opportunity to make your subject known more. Just let me know when you wrote a new article with decent enough length and sources, and I'll check it for you. - See my talk for a woman who received 2,800+ views with DYK one day, vs. perhaps single digit views without. I think that's worth a bit of extra effort. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:14, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
 * , I absolutely agree. Thank you! :) --Tsistunagiska (talk) 13:26, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Today, two women pictured on the Main page, article rescued from deletion: enjoy the spirit! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:52, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
 * ps: see also about losses - we need strength --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:55, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

November edith-a-thons from Women in Red
--Megalibrarygirl (talk) 18:50, 28 October 2020 (UTC) via MassMessaging

User:Tsistunagiska/2013 Doncaster Rovers Belles L.F.C. season
I've finally closed that deletion review that was dragging on forever, and userfied the article linked above. As mentioned at the DRV the overall discussion and situation was fairly flawed, and if you reckon you can bring the article up to a standard that will stand alone, or you think you can do a good merge, either is permitted. To be honest. Let me know if you need any admin assistance or otherwise with it. Thanks for your efforts! ~ mazca  talk 19:49, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you! It needed to be closed so we can move on from it. Everyone had argued and discussed out of things to say and it turned into a shouting match. I'll do what I can as soon as I can with it. --Tsistunagiska (talk) 13:03, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/DoubleTree by Hilton Hotel London - Chelsea
Hi - have to be honest here, I can't close an AfD as "Keep because I trust Tsistunagiska enough now to be able to improve it to a suitable level", so I'm afraid I had to go with "Delete". Do you want a copy of the article in your userspace for improvement? Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  15:11, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
 * No need. I am just trying to fight for inclusion where I feel we have a chance. Win some and lose some. Thank you for contacting me. --Tsistunagiska (talk) 15:15, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Okay, although in this instance I did a quick bit of research myself and noticed the hotel was new build, in the 19th century it was a gasworks, and in the mid-20th century it was a brownfield site. Most London property articles I've managed to drag out of the pit of deletion have some history under a different name going back a hundred years or more (worked example here). Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  15:27, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

Declaration of independence
It's interesting that the United States Declaration of Independence article doesn't mention any of the controversy around the "merciless Indian savages" wording. This is an interesting article about it: https://digitalcommons.law.ou.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1208&context=ailr - Francis Tyers · 00:53, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
 * , that appears to be the direct quote from the Declaration of Independence. I am not like a lot of people. I don't want the words removed. I want them to stay as they were intended. I am also not for removal of statues, monuments or the such. I want the prior mistakes of the United States and other nations to be on full display. I am in agreement that we need to add other monuments, markers and such to bring context to what is there. Removing it will not undo what was done. It will only ensure it is possible to occur again. If it is repeated outside of the context in which it was written, historically, then we have just cause to have the wording removed or amended, such as an editors choice of words within an article here. --Tsistunagiska (talk) 15:41, 10 November 2020 (UTC)

November
Thank you for article work in November! Look today at BB music, a little crusade of mine ;) - his birthday on St Cecilia's day, patron saint of music. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:57, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Today's DYK: to be sung "happily" --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:16, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

Happy Thanksgiving!

 * Thank you. I was away all weekend on a hunt. Temps were down around 5f(-15c) for a high and -6f(-21c) for a low. Not too bad. We did get some snow. This week we have a good blast coming our way. Snow showers tomorrow through Thursday and then it clears and the temp drops fast. Friday I doubt we see positive temps at all. Expected to be around -14f(-25.5c) for a high and -23f(-30.5c) for the low. Winter is just beginning too. We are getting close to the peak of Polar night. Sunrise is around 11:15-11:30am and sunset is around 2-2:15pm. That will shorten over the next week and by mid next week we will have about 45 minutes to an hour of daylight. A few days after and the sun wont rise above the horizon at all. Of course, we are surrounded by mountains so we haven't seen the sun in a while but we do get a little light. --Tsistunagiska (talk) 15:23, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
 * good to see you pop in. Sorry about your weather, but glad you are doing okay. It's raining here again, ugh, but 80F, so pleasant. Stay safe. SusunW (talk) 15:29, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Awww, it's so good to hear from you. Hopefully the rain quits and you get some beautiful days. It's only going to get colder from here on until about March. I'm used to the pattern though you never get used to the temps. Every wood stove is burning though. LoL --Tsistunagiska (talk) 16:18, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I feel for you. I don't do well in climates where it drops much below 80F. Needless to say, we have no wood stoves, nor heat (or AC) in the house. SusunW (talk) 16:22, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
 * We don't have AC and we don't have central heating. We have a wood stove in every room and two fireplaces. One fireplace is in the Main Living Room and then we have a second smaller fireplace in the lower den. My brother just finished his house not long ago and they have central heating. Not much use for AC here though it has gotten into the 80's during Summer. I may die if got any hotter than that. (LoL) I need to send you some pictures sometime. --Tsistunagiska (talk) 17:11, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
 * , if you get the chance, check out Wild Lake, Alaska. If it's not showing above latitude 67 degrees then it's the wrong Wild Lake. I think there is a smaller one in South Alaska too. Anyway, that's home. :-) --Tsistunagiska (talk) 17:51, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
 * very pretty, though I must admit after living 2 1/2 years in the jungle in Belize pretty much camping the whole time, I have become a die hard city girl. Not sure if I ever want to live off grid again. Give me amenities, hustle, bustle, people and heat. LOL SusunW (talk) 18:09, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

{od} we have our own bustling metropolis of 10 to 15 here, depending on the time of year, and we even get traffic jams when the caribou herds migrate nearby. The city was always okay for me to visit but I never could stay long. I love living on land that is as wild as my hair and spirit. (LoL)--Tsistunagiska (talk) 18:17, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I love living in a city that is as wild as my hair and spirit. ;) SusunW (talk) 18:21, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
 * the very first week here I had a wolf come to me and rest his head on my lap for what seemed like forever but was probably only a minute. I was basically adopted by a pack of Gray Wolves about 7 years ago, now, when I lived in Haines, AK. How fitting is it that my ancestry is from the Wolf Clan? Idk, but the Spirit of the Universe like to tell me things. The last few weeks has been good for me. Sometimes you get off center and you have to bring yourself back in line. I will continue to edit and do things here but my participation will be limited. I have lost a lot of heart strings over the last few years and I miss them but know they will be ok. I am just glad they saw my rainbow and stopped for a while to visit before it was time to move on. --Tsistunagiska (talk) 18:41, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

December with Women in Red
--Megalibrarygirl (talk) 16:41, 26 November 2020 (UTC) via MassMessaging

What?
What is going on?

Nothing, just had a particular admin target me and every edit I did so I decided not to make any edits. It's not worth the stress and headache of doing something only to have it reverted, even small things like removing redundant links, just so they can prove how much fake power they have. I will go on living a happy life, keeping traditions as I see fit and actually contribute something to society without the fear of having rogue admins here vomiting their self-righteous egotistical attitudes of control over me. As far as my contributions go, it is what it is. We talk about "good faith" but there is little "good faith" in exerting control over editors here and driving them off the project by out-of-control admins who seemingly have no oversight into their actions. I have never been a threat to another human being outside the occasional poacher who thinks it's okay to steal a protected animal on this land. The true threat is the closed-minded attitudes of some in powerful positions here who constantly bend rules when it comes to what they want or something they do yet take a hard line with editors and then refuse to explain themselves because they don't have to and aren't forced to. The double standard gets old quickly. Anyway, to those who choose to continue to edit here despite the obvious power trips and egos of some, more power to you and bless you for your efforts. There are good admins out there who walk the line they preach. I honor and respect them. There are outstanding editors I have met along this short journey and even more amazing people I have been fortunate enough to meet in life. You have been worthy of my time and I have been blessed, honored and humbled by yours. --Tsistunagiska (talk) 15:22, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Sorry to hear it. I too have run into numerous meatheads around here.  Ones who think it's their way or the highway, but never following policy.  I usually just outlast them.  I am truly sorry to see you go, and hope once you've recharged that you'll be back.  I shall miss you and your good work here.   GenQuest  "scribble" 16:43, 15 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Sorry to hear that. I will miss your spirit. I just happily added your last message to my "blushing" corner, and removed a name from Die Fliege. I'd hate to add you. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:03, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I really appreciate you both. Gen, it has been my pleasure to work with you on the occasions that we have. You do great work and it's been fun watching you. You are fun to talk to and discuss things with. You truly stimulate my inner intellect. Gerda, you have been a light for me during the few dark times I have had here in my brief stay. I can't explain the value you have added to my journey except in terms of the song I hear from within you. It's a beautiful flowing melody of sounds with explosions of color. You are a Spiritual Aquarian Synesthetes ultimate heavenly experience. Keep that edge, both of you. --Tsistunagiska (talk) 17:39, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you for saying that, Tsistunagiska. I know some excellent admins, and we just got another one, - perhaps Hammersoft can look into your problem (which I don't know, and have no time to investigate). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:36, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Tsistunagiska; looking at this tool, the interaction between the two of you began this month? Is that correct? Is this the editor to whom you were referring? I'm not suggesting hounding has happened in your case (I haven't investigated fully), but having been a victim of severe hounding, I can empathize. We have a policy against hounding at WP:HOUNDING. Our Arbitration Committee has taken a very dim view of baiting as well (Arbitration/Index/Boilerplates). You don't stand alone. If I have the correct editor, let's start a discussion and work this out. We need you here! --Hammersoft (talk) 20:53, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm in my own little world, as you know, but came up for air and saw this. Know I support whatever decision you make, but from my own selfish perspective, your voice is needed and welcomed. If your load can be lightened by walking the path with Hammersoft, I'm in favor of that, if you feel safe. SusunW (talk) 21:09, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
 * To pin this on one admin and say it's their fault entirely wouldn't be honest. Do I believe I was hounded over the last week or so? I could make that argument and believe some of the reverts were a premeditated action regardless of it's merit. To say it begins and ends there wouldn't be fair to them. After discussions with my family, and I admitted this on Doug's talk page, to which I followed up with an apology to Doug, I was overzealous and most likely shared information that some would rather I not have shared and included references from an unreliable source that is known to spread incorrect information but, in my defense, I have tried to search for sources to back up what was written and overlooked some of the credibility of the sources but it was never in "bad faith". I have since removed that source from every article I have improved, most of which I had other reliable sources anyway. I was chastised by my family for sharing anything, regardless, and so my conclusion, in order to honor their wishes, is to not edit, improve or take away from any article currently here about the subject. That leaves me with another conundrum. It's the sole reason I came here. It's where I began, trying to revive the Cherokee wiki. There is little to no support for that at this time though, so I resorted to improving articles on the English wiki. I don't care to go into details because it's a very private matter but I will say that it hurt to be chastised as hard as I was over something I am passionate about and feel should be opened up and shared because it's a beautiful song of the past that's still sung today. But I would rather keep my honor where it should be and that's with my family and ancestors. That still leaves me with no purpose and no real desire to find another one here. The few I have tried to branch out into have not been any more successful due to where Wikipedia is right now in its evolution. Maybe one day, we all hope upon hope it improves. --Tsistunagiska (talk) 21:43, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Your voice is one that we very much need here. With less than 200,000 Cherokee, your voice here can make a massive contribution to this project. Many people can edit here. Few can edit with your perspective. If the number of people with User Cherokee on their userpage is reflective, less than 10% of 1% of all Cherokee edit on this project. I wholly understand the need to respect your family's wishes. Nevertheless, I hope you can reconsider; as silence continues, history grows ever more silent. Sometimes what is lost can never be recovered. Your impact here could last for generations. --Hammersoft (talk) 21:54, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I think every voice is important, including and especially those who oppose mine but do so respectfully. I have no time for arguments that are not productive. My day or night is full enough and most of us are not paid editors here. I really didn't want it to become what it has. I don't want anyone here to think I am seeking attention. It couldn't be further from the truth. I could and probably should walk away. But, out of respect for those here who have voiced their desire for me to stay, I will consider all things. --Tsistunagiska (talk) 22:12, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I hope you do stay! If you need help, give me a ping or stop by my talk page. Of note; this edit didn't work to ping me. I found out through error myself that the ping feature won't work if it's not tied to a signature in the same edit. Since that edit didn't also have a signature in the same edit, it didn't function to let me know you had pinged me. --Hammersoft (talk) 22:29, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I apologize for that. I was told this once before but had forgotten. Thank you for the kind words and offered support. It means a lot. I'll be fine no matter what. I have plenty to keep myself occupied if need be. Regardless, this has been a fun and exciting life experience. : You have always been an encouraging support. Thank you for that. It's a positive character trait that adds to your beautiful nature. I have been so fortunate to have met so many amazing life songs everywhere I go. Wikipedia is no exception. It made this so much more worth the experience. --Tsistunagiska (talk) 14:55, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

Some explanation for early confusion
Hi, Tsistunagiska. I wanted to explain some of my early confusion over the material about cultures and peoples in the Cherokee homelands (in addition to having needed more review before plunging in). I live near the Cahokia and Kincaid sites, where the peoples of the Mississippian culture did abandon these major, multi-mound sites that they had inhabited for hundreds of years. No historic Native American tribes were known to have occupied those areas in the hundreds of years before European/American settlement. That seems to be how I formed the idea of successive cultures with marked breaks in time between the peoples who were there. It resulted in confusing my thinking about other regions. Thanks for working with me - I'm continuing to learn and, I hope, make contributions on the Cherokee homelands and related articles. Best wishes for the new year!Parkwells (talk) 19:50, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I think it's amazing. You are pursuing knowledge and understanding and I commend you for that. We never really should stop the pursuit. You have already made contributions and I appreciate them. I hope you find success in future endeavors. Never lose sight of the fact this is a journey with twists and turns. Sometimes so many that it's hard to see where we came from or where we are going but, one day we will look back, as those who came before us have done, and we will hopefully stand in awe of the experiences we had and be humbled and thankful for the portrait life painted us. Bless you, Parkwells. --Tsistunagiska (talk) 21:53, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Merry Christmas!
Merry Christmas, Ms. T. Thank you for your help this year! GenQuest "scribble" 22:34, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

Season's Greetings



 * X
 * Merry Christmas & Happy New Year
 * X Hi, T! I hope you have a good holiday, and may you and yours stay safe and as sane as present circumstances allow! GenQuest  "scribble" 02:55, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

Merry Christmas!
-- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 21:10, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

A New Year With Women in Red!
--Megalibrarygirl (talk) 03:03, 29 December 2020 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Update on Black Coyote
Hi! Hope you've been well and happy. I got pretty busy these past few months, but I finally got back to the Black Coyote draft and I'm basically done with it (meaning I don't expect to find anything else, but I'd add something good if I came across something good). The draft is referenced enough that I think it would likely make it through the AfD that I am assuming would take place as soon as I post it. But I just don't want to deal with the drama from those couple of parties who would make a stink about it. The research is worth my time--and I have now spent hours across these American Indian AfDs from September-present--but the expected pushback from those deletionists who would rather stick to their guns than demonstrate grace (not to mention pick up a book and do unbiased research themselves) is such bologna--it's slimy, stinky, and overall so gross and I want as little to do with it in 2021 as I can make my reality, without compromising on my mission and goals. Therefore: instead of moving the draft to the mainspace, I've incorporated some 90% of it into the Wounded Knee massacre article. That article needs further development and I think the factor of Black Coyote in how things unfolded needed to be examined in greater detail there. The big plus is that more people would read about him on the Wounded Knee massacre article than on his own article. The main thing I left out was Black Coyote in film adaptations. Anyway, that's what's up with that. Let me know your thoughts and please ping me if I could potentially be of assistance in some similar situation. Happy new year! --DiamondRemley39 (talk) 17:32, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

Happy New Year!
-- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 22:56, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

Decision
I'll keep this short and sweet, I promise. I've had a couple of days to think about this and I am sure there will be many more days that I will contemplate my decision but as it stands right now I have decided to indefinitely retire as an editor of Wikipedia. I felt like those that watch my talk page are those I have dealt with on more of a regular basis and you deserved this to come from me rather than have me quietly slip away. I do not leave out of anger or bitterness. To the contrary, I am more full of love and joy from being here. I won't rule out a return at some point, perhaps on a semi basis, but that will be decided some time in the future. It has been completely my honor to have offered my time as a mentor and a host at the Teahouse. It has equally been an honor to have spent time with each of you in conversation and discussion on talk pages across this fine encyclopedia. This decision is not made flippantly, and I have struggled through great angst in making it. But I feel it is best to focus on other areas in my life in the present. It has been my pleasure to have offered what small and insignificant contributions I could to the encyclopedia. Where I have made impact, I hope it was positive. Remember that each of you have a LifeSong inside you full of experience and bright intensity that it's sometimes overwhelming for me but I wanted you to know that there is someone that has listened to you and is desperately in love with your Song and intoxicated with your Colors. I always will be. Stay True. -- A Rose Wolf  19:13, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
 * We should always do as feels best, as each of us knows better than anyone else what that is. Needless to say, I will miss you, and I dare say so will a lot of others. If you ever feel it's right to come back, you will of course be welcome. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:16, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
 * It has been a pleasure to work with you, . –– FormalDude   talk   19:36, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Your kindness has been a blessing. With gratitude and love, Folly Mox (talk) 21:16, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the time you've shared to help those on this encyclopedia. You've always been a great help to myself and many others with your kindness, patience, and understanding. I wish you all the best. Perfect4th (talk) 01:24, 23 July 2022 (UTC)
 * I have felt such a connection with you, even though we didn't speak much. An understanding of sorts. I hope you decide to return some day. In the meantime, wishing you good health and happy days. Hope you know you are always welcome to write to me. --Rosiestep (talk) 03:38, 23 July 2022 (UTC)
 * May your song continue to brighten the world. I will miss you dearly, but I understand. When you need me, you will find me. Peace, strength and rainbows. SusunW (talk) 04:41, 23 July 2022 (UTC)


 * }