User talk:A Nobody/Archive 3

Thanks
Looks like I was proven wrong about you! Keep up the great work and I look forward to further edits from you. seicer &#x007C;  talk  &#x007C;  contribs  01:33, 24 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the nice message. All the best!  Sincerely, --A NobodyMy talk 01:35, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Major depressive disorder FAC restarted
Note to all !voters on the original Major depressive disorder FAC: The FAC for that article has been restarted at Featured_article_candidates/Major_depressive_disorder. Cosmic Latte (talk) 02:32, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, thanks for the note! Sincerely, --A NobodyMy talk 02:36, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of List of SD Gundam G-Generation F mobile suits
I have nominated List of SD Gundam G-Generation F mobile suits, an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Articles for deletion/List of SD Gundam G-Generation F mobile suits. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time. BradV 06:01, 25 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Do you have something you want to say to me? ;) BradV  06:22, 25 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I have commented in the discussion. Sincerely, --A NobodyMy talk 16:21, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

RfA thanks
design by neurolysis | to add this barnstar to your awards page, simply copy and paste and remove this bottom text | if you don't like thankspam, please accept my sincere apologies
 * You're welcome, congratulations, and bravo! :)  And yes, I actually like thank you spam as I think any effort to be friendly and nice helps to make this site a better and more welcoming place to edit.  Best, --A NobodyMy talk 23:12, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

List of problems solved by MacGyver
A redirect would not be very useful, since "List of problems solved by MacGyver" isn't a probable search term. However, if you wish this article userfied so you can merge some of its content to another article, I'd be happy to copy it temporarily to User talk:A Nobody/List of problems solved by MacGyver. Tim Vickers (talk) 02:04, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I've also dropped a note to the clerk dealing with Requests for checkuser/Case/Carlsher to notify them about the result of the AfD. Tim Vickers (talk) 02:12, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I think per Merge and delete, if I merge anything I have to still leave the edit history intact for proper attribution purposes according to the GFDL. I truly believe some good sources/content were added during the discussion that would be beneficial to the main article.  What if we went with a merge and protected redirect?  Anyway, I have seen admins caution other users {for example, here) about not attributing properly in cases of merges.  Best, --A NobodyMy talk 02:23, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Just put a link to the article in your merge edit summary. It doesn't matter if it is a redlink since the history is still retained on the servers. Tim Vickers (talk) 02:29, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, but if userfied, shouldn't it be at User:A Nobody/List of problems solved by MacGyver? Also, is there anywhere that clearly/definitively says how the whole attribution thing actually works?  I think the "merge and delete" link above is an essay and I am not sure if the admin opinion I also link to is personal opinion or what?  It is one of those things I am curious about knowing if there is a "right" answer to as I do the occasional merges.  Best, --A NobodyMy talk 02:32, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Alternatively I see from Help:Merging_and_moving_pages I could use, what target page would you prefer again? Tim Vickers (talk) 02:33, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
 * At MacGyver, I see a number of "citation needed"s and hope that I can do that with some of what was added to the deleted article. Anyway, someone in the discussion said that he knew I at least would work on it (see here) and I'd rather not disappoint anyone.  So, I figure I might as well at least do what I can to improve the main article and if there's anything here that I can use, it's probably worthwhile.  Sincerely, --A NobodyMy talk 02:36, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
 * OK all done, drop me a note when you're done with that userpage. All the best Tim Vickers (talk) 02:41, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, thanks, I'll work on it as soon as I can, hopefully within the next few days (assuming the Thanksgiving festivities aren't too hectic!). Best, --A NobodyMy talk 02:45, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Regarding this...
Thank you so much. Well, you know what the old-time Congressman Sam Rayburn once said: "Any jackass can kick down a barn door, but it takes a carpenter to build one!" I like to think of myself as a carpenter. Be well. Ecoleetage (talk) 09:41, 26 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Me too! Best, --A NobodyMy talk 14:08, 26 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Okay, see you there. --A NobodyMy talk 14:08, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Article rescue and contributions
Hey nobody, how are things coming along? What are you working on these days? Let me know if you come along something substantial that you think I'd like helping on. As you know I have a passion for subjects relating to Ewok languages, UFOs, recreational games, and third world environmental organizations, but I'm not big on old comedic horror movies. ChildofMidnight (talk) 17:39, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Decent enough. If you could help me reference any of the articles in my userspace that would always be great and appreciated and I would always be happy to return the favor.  I hope all is well with you!  Sincerely, --A NobodyMy talk 17:41, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, I'll have a look there. I was also trying to add a little levity and support as I saw a posting that I thought was rather uncivil and very aggresive. Do people do that just to bait other users or is it because they want to flaunt their power, or what?ChildofMidnight (talk) 20:29, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Cool, appreciated! :)  And I wouldn't presume one way or the other why some make uncivil or aggressive postings.  Individuals have different motivations for harassing other editors.  In any event, I find it best to not feed into them and to instead just ignore them.  One can usually tell fairly easily if a comment is made in such a manner that it is not worth even acknowledging and by ignoring it, that in a way tells the writer that, hey, if you want to engage someone in a dialogue do so in a mature and respectful fashion or don't bother.  At this point, as my time here is limited, I am not willing or interested in being baited.  I am here to engage editors in proactive and constructive dialogues to help make this place more pleasant and to improve and rescue articles.  I will be no part to exacerbating needless drama and nor will I humor nonsense comments made in bad faith.  If we don't humor obviously biased comments, then it will discourage them from being made and even if it doesn't, well then those making them will clearly and appropriately look the worse for making them.  There is so much more pleasant stuff to work on and to share with others!  :)  All the best!  Sincerely, --A NobodyMy talk 20:52, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, thanks for the explanation. I don't know who's an Admin and who isn't and I'm not trying to step on any mines, but I was sorry to see a great editor recently leave under the sway of incivility and hostile actions. It frustrates me to see that kind of thing. Your explanation is helpful. Sorry if I've gotten all serious now. Most of my jokes are misunderstood anyway, so maybe my being serious will get a laugh...
 * The Problems solved by MacGyver and the Riddles (problems) in Egyptology articles sound very interesting. I'll have to check them out. I don't know that I'll be much help on either, but they seem like just the sort of interesting, intriguing, and (hopefully) notable subjects that would be fun to include. Of course they are also the sort of article that is recieved with tremendous hostility by the "keepers of the flame". But it's cool to know they're out there on the edges. I was struck by a recent comment at an AfD by an anonymous user who said he consults and uses a certain "list of" every day. Since it wasn't formatted properly and didn't present its case along guidelines it seemed to get dismissed, but I thought it was the best argument at an AfD I've seen so far. Take care. ChildofMidnight (talk) 21:49, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
 * You're welcome; sorry for the brief reply but I'm simultaneously checking some school related stuff. Best, --A NobodyMy talk 00:41, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I was just checking back on your talkpage and noticed that comment about aggressive comments. If you have problems with other editors being persistently aggressive and uncivil you can either report them at WP:AN/I or drop your friendly local admin a note about them. All the best Tim Vickers (talk) 23:18, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
 * A Nobody, sorry if I stirred up any touble. Thanks again for your explanation. Take care and have fun. ChildofMidnight (talk) 23:40, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you to both of you. I appreciate the thoughtfulness.  Sincerely, --A NobodyMy talk 00:41, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Welcoming Message
Thanks for the welcoming message! I am actually another Wikipedia addict, and would be editing as Axeman89, if I weren't using a public computer and too lazy to log on. Thanks for the warm, if quite belated, welcome. 144.89.41.173 (talk) 19:03, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
 * You're welcome! Best, --A NobodyMy talk 19:41, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Hi

 * Thank you! :)  I really needed something to uplift my spirits today and that helps.  --Happy Thanksgiving!  Sincerely, A NobodyMy talk 17:27, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * You're welcome :) David WS (contribs)  17:32, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Jclemens RfA

 * You're welcome, congratulations, and good luck! :) Sincerely, --A NobodyMy talk 15:10, 29 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Okay, I'll reply there. Best, --A NobodyMy talk 18:44, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Re: Carmelita Fox
While commendable, isn't the bit of reception you cited more an issue with the game rather than the character itself? o.O--Kung Fu Man (talk) 18:02, 1 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I think it shows that the character is significant enough for the series that people will legitimately search for here and that we do have at least justification for merging and redirecting. Best, --A NobodyMy talk 18:04, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Re: Happy Thanksgiving!
You, too! :) Hope you have a fantastic feast! — Erik  (talk • contrib) 02:44, 27 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I'll do my best! :)  Regards, --Happy Thanksgiving!  Sincerely, A NobodyMy talk 02:46, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for the kind wishes. Hope you have a good one too!--otherlleftNo, really, other way. .. 02:58, 27 November 2008 (UTC)


 * You're welcome. I just hope my ride back home is better than my ride to school was!  Best, --Happy Thanksgiving!  Sincerely, A NobodyMy talk 02:59, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Happy Thanksgiving! RockManQ (talk) 03:01, 27 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks; same to you! Sincerely, --Happy Thanksgiving!  Sincerely, A NobodyMy talk 03:02, 27 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for that thoughtful template. And the food looks yummy, too. Happy Thanksgiving. --Efe (talk)
 * You're welcome and thanks! --Happy Thanksgiving!  Sincerely, A NobodyMy talk 03:08, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Happy thanksgiving, mate! :) Cheers, Master of Puppets  Call me MoP! :D  03:46, 27 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks! Sincerely, --Happy Thanksgiving!  Sincerely, A NobodyMy talk 03:49, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Happy Thanksgiving and many thanks for the Turducken! It's my favorite. Although I've never had it, but it sure looks tasty. Here's the new thing Gobble gobble gobble... ChildofMidnight (talk) 04:20, 27 November 2008 (UTC)


 * You're welcome; I have yet to try one too. --Happy Thanksgiving!  Sincerely, A NobodyMy talk 15:06, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, Wish you the same. Have a fun day. --SkyWalker (talk) 06:50, 27 November 2008 (UTC)


 * You're welcome, but so far, not so fun... :( --Happy Thanksgiving!  Sincerely, A NobodyMy talk 15:06, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. I may not celebrate it, but I wish you a happy Thanksgiving as well. Enjoy your turkey. Fair field fencer  F F F  09:36, 27 November 2008 (UTC)


 * You're welcome. I might not actually have any turkey today though as I am staying on campus to grade alone rather than visit with my family.  For whatever it may seem, I'm actually too disgusted right now that certain editors are still fixated on me that I can't really enjoy myself at the moment.  --Happy Thanksgiving!  Sincerely, A NobodyMy talk 15:06, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! As a Brit, I have barely any idea what it even is, but I hope you have a good time yourself :) Tombomp (talk/contribs) 10:17, 27 November 2008 (UTC)


 * You're welcome; maybe I'll cheer up later. --Happy Thanksgiving!  Sincerely, A NobodyMy talk 15:06, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for wishing me such wishes~ (even though my country does not celebrate it) Sorry for the late reply, I've been terribly busy with my life. Thanks again, I hope you had a good one too. Ffgamera (talk) 03:46, 2 December 2008 (UTC)


 * You're welcome and thanks! Sincerely, --A NobodyMy talk 15:42, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Hi
Just a note; please don't speedy your archives again, as ThumperWard would like to retain them for future use in some RfC. Thanks, Master of Puppets  Call me MoP! :D  08:51, 27 November 2008 (UTC)


 * If you prefer, I could move the pages into your user space. PhilKnight (talk) 12:28, 27 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I have no choice but to re-request that they be speedily deleted. The request to restore them is being made by a user with a history of hostility against me and serve no constructive end that could possibly trump not wanting my real world harassers to identify me by my old username.  If that was not a concern, I would not have bothered to be renamed as something totally anonymous.  Anything of value is still in my current talk page's edit history anyway.  It is not right for someone who has acted aggresively against another user to make such requests as restoring stuff that was deleted due to real world concerns.  I just want that user to leave me alone already.  I have not commented in many deletion discussions since returning.  And when I did I made my argument and leave or only reply to those who replied to me.  Who replied to who as well as to others at Articles for deletion/Blah (2nd nomination) or how about to multiple editors at Articles for deletion/List of SD Gundam G-Generation F mobile suits a discussion for an article I created nonetheless?  That user left some bullying rant on my talk page that I'd rather not dignify suggesting that I made a personal attack by calling a nominator in AfD of an article disruptive.  Well, laughing at someone else in a discussion is hardly productive/constructive.  No reasonable editor could see anything even remote in my most recent AfD comments that could possibly justify an RfC.  The only way someone would start such a thing based on these examples of my recent participation could only be doing so out of bias and to again in effect bully someone with whom they obviously disagree.  And think about who is trying to make something out of nothing?  In most of his recent AfD comments in the past couple of days, he has made four edits in the one for an article I created and made several critiquing me in another one.  I didn't comment on his or anyone else's initial "vote."  And then there's the talk page rant, and then there's these plastering of my old username on PhilKnight's talk page even though I explicitly state that I do not want my old name bandied about.  As you can see if anything others including that individual are being far more confrontational, and disagreeing with someone's arguments is not cause to risk allowing for real world issues to be exacerbated.  I would much rather this user just leave me alone already and just ignore me if he doesn't like my arguments.  If I can do that, why can't he?  If any of my arguments are weak, then let the closing admin decide, but we shouldn't bully people who disagree with us and arrogantly say that just because we disagree they must automatically be disruptive.  I think doing incivil things like laughing at others is disruptive, but seriously, citing sources found on Google Books...?  Please!  As you can see above, I am not commenting on everybody's arguments I disagree with and I certainly am not threatening them with admin boards or making some big effort to restore anything from their userspace that was deleted due to real world harassment issues.  I need those pages to remain deleted due to such concerns and no vendetta any individual has against me should possibly trump that.  --Happy Thanksgiving!  Sincerely, A NobodyMy talk 14:28, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * It is a generally accepted rule of thumb that any editor—just as he may decline to use archives for removed user_talk page content—may request the deletion of any or all of his archives. I have, on that basis, deleted both of A Nobody's archives. If the deleted content of those archives is required at a later date by another editor for the purposes of a Requests for Comment, especially where such an RfC is warranted and would not serve primarily to disrupt or upset (but rather to benefit the project), I would invite them to message my talk page and I will consider making the content available to them. I trust this is an amicable solution to all. AGK 18:39, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Dear AGK, please restore User talk:A Nobody/Archive 1 and User talk:A Nobody/Archive 2. I am perfectly okay with those two archives.  The ones that I am concerned about are the ones associated with my old username.  --Happy Thanksgiving!  Sincerely, A NobodyMy talk 18:46, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I find AGK's proposal smart; if they're really needed the community will say so. Sorry for the misunderstanding! Cheers, Master of Puppets  Call me MoP! :D  20:17, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I second the Puppet Master's motion and AGK's decision. I hope you enjoy your break, and I look forward to visiting with you about interesting articles upon your return. ChildofMidnight (talk) 20:56, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks all. --Happy Thanksgiving!  Sincerely, A NobodyMy talk 15:36, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
 * It's worth noting that nobody has to keep archives anyway; the talk page history will contain everything that's been here. Stifle (talk) 09:21, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for participating in my RfA
I just wanted to take a moment to say "thank you" for taking the time and effort to participate in my recent RfA. As you may know, the discussion closed 66/0/1 and I'm now a holder of the mop. I will keep working to improve the encyclopedia and appreciate the trust which you have placed in me. - Dravecky (talk) 23:23, 1 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Wow! No opposes!  Good job!  Sincerely, --A NobodyMy talk 15:43, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Suggestion
You've brought an issue to various people's attention. Don't over do it. Let's see what happens. It sounds to me like Protonk, among others, would be willing to merge the relevant histories if the article is deleted. That still may not be the outcome you were hoping for, but I don't think it's worth getting worked up over. Have patience and hope for the best. It's only one article and you don't want to create any unnecessary animosity. ChildofMidnight (talk) 03:53, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, fair enough and thanks for the suggestion. By the way, they did apparently make a toy of the character as well, but I've said what I wanted to say and really do need to be focusing on school work anyway.  I just hope everyone will be reasonable and all.  Take care!  Sincerely, --A NobodyMy talk 03:54, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Penny Parker
Restored the history. Best, Black Kite 17:22, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I have merged some of the relevant references accordingly. Sincerely, --A NobodyMy talk 17:45, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Thank ye
Thanks for letting me know the AfD closed as Keep -- that is great news! Ecoleetage (talk) 01:06, 4 December 2008 (UTC)


 * You're welcome. Again, good job!  Sincerely, --A NobodyMy talk 02:12, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Question
Could you please redirect or would you be okay with redirects of Debt (Law & Order: Special Victims Unit) and Haunted (Law & Order: Special Victims Unit) to Law_%26_Order:_Special_Victims_Unit_(season_6)? It didn't appear that anyone in the discussion would have opposed a redirect to there. Thanks! Sincerely, --A NobodyMy talk 01:52, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I would have no objection to that; if you wish to merge any of the content then let me know and I will restore the history under a redirect. Stifle (talk) 09:20, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Sure, I would be happy to merge whatever I can. Thanks!  Sincerely, --A NobodyMy talk 02:16, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
 * That's done now. Happy merging! Stifle (talk) 09:23, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I am working on it now. Sincerely, --A NobodyMy talk 15:50, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Walter Paisley
How is the rescue coming along? - Mgm|(talk) 09:37, 4 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Okay, but I would like to see if we can get a "reception" section in there as well. Best, --A NobodyMy talk 18:00, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Clarification
Yes, you are right. I really enjoyed the films but I guess I tend to forget names. When I realised that he is the father of the two evil protagonists I changed by opinion. Why there isn't any List of characters available? I think it would be much better. -- Magioladitis (talk) 02:35, 4 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I would not be opposed to a list of characters instead for some of the secondary characters and I would certainly be willing to help edit it. I would say that Selene (Underworld) as the main character in the first two films and one of two selectable characters in the video game merits her own article.  Raze (Underworld) is also notable as one of two playable characters in the video game and I was able to start a reception section on him (see Raze_(Underworld)).  I think that Michael Corvin is also worthy of an article as I was able to start a Michael_Corvin and Michael_Corvin section for him.  Also, please note that they made action figures of Michael, Raze, Viktor, Lucian, and Selene.  The protagonist of Underworld: Rise of the Lycans may also be worthy of an article too depending on what kind of coverage is in reviews and interviews associated with that film's release.  Now for the other characters who are not the protagonists of either the films or games and thus for whom production and reception sections would be more difficult to start, a character list would probably be an appropriate compromise that I would be willing to support.  I really think that we all need to come up with some kind of compromises with the fictional character ones that everyone should be able to live with.  I can usually find sources if they exist so my feeling is if I can at least start a development and reception section using Google News and Google Books results then the article has potential and should be kept; if I can verify the information, but not do much beyond just confirming the character appeared in whatever film or game or who portrayed the character, then a merge and redirect is the way to go; and finally if even I cannot add one source to the article then deletion or redirecting would be appropriate.  I am, however, generally only going to comment in the ones where I am really confident the article has enough potential that it really should not be outright deleted.  But I think these standards are reaonable?  What do you think?  Best, --A NobodyMy talk 02:46, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I think that with the elements you describe one of the best list of articles can be described. I think we should include there Lucian, Viktor, Sonja, Markus Corvinus, Kraven, Alexander Corvinus, William Corvinus, Raze. We can have a list of characters with many references, real world information (like a section called "Action figures", etc.) and with short character's profiles instead of exhaustive plot descriptions. If can find enough sources for Michael Corvin, it can be a separate article, but I am not sure yet. Selene is the main character but the article is very weak. Why really? If you are willing to start this article, I can help as well and write this in the AfD. I can't do it alone. In fact if wouldn't have noticed that Underworld characters were send to AfD, if I was not going to fix the infoboxes. -- Magioladitis (talk) 10:40, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I would of course be willing to help work on such a list and to continue to do what I can with any articles for Selene or any other characters who may be worthy of their own article. We could rank the characters by degrees of notablility for determing the list's organization:
 * Characters who appeared in all three films and thus all three novelizations/graphic novelizations of the films.
 * Characters who appeared in two of the films and novelizations.
 * Characters who appeared in one film and novelization.
 * Characters who had an action figure made of him/her (Lucian, Michael, Raze, Selene, and Viktor).
 * Characters who were playable characters in the video game (Raze and Selene).
 * Characters who were non-playable characters in the game.
 * Those with multiple or starring appearances in different media can be considered main characters and those who are important to the stories, but haven't had multiple appearances secondary characters. Given our discussion here, do you think it would be worth trying to see if TTN and Thumperward would allow us to take this route as a compromise and thus withdraw the two active discussions so we can proceed?  Best, --A NobodyMy talk 15:42, 4 December 2008 (UTC)


 * A wrote a message to Articles for deletion/Michael Corvin. I think none will have a problem if we create a good article. I think we can start by creating the article including the important information found. Even if articles get deleted, which I doubt, I still have access to the code, since I am an admin. As you may know, I am usually pro of deleting unreferenced articles for fictional characters but in this case we have 3 films, novels, a video game and action figures. A lot and good material. -- Magioladitis (talk) 16:12, 4 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Cool and I am happy that even though you and I are probably more often than not in disagreement about these fictional character articles (I usually favor keeping in some capacity) that we are able to work together here. On a side note, for the next ten days or so my on-wiki time will be incredibly limited due to final exam week.  Sincerely, --A NobodyMy talk 15:46, 5 December 2008 (UTC)


 * No problem. Take your time. We have access to the material so we can create a good article and nothing will be lost. Good luck with your exams, they are far more important for you right now. -- Magioladitis (talk) 15:54, 5 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Okay, when I do have time, should I start the list in my userspace first or just begin it in the mainspace? Best, --A NobodyMy talk 15:54, 6 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Start it in your userpage in order to avoid any tagging and as soon as we have something  good to show we can put it in a new article and people can contribute on it. Cheers. Magioladitis (talk) 16:09, 6 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Okay, please see User:A Nobody/Underworld characters (I figure it's Saturday, I need a break from school...). Best, --A NobodyMy talk 16:28, 6 December 2008 (UTC)