User talk:Aaron Brenneman/Archives/02

Note: Copy-paste from history To all and sundry: As IgnoreAllRules (talk • contribs • [ page moves] • block user • [ block log]) I recently commited vandalism in the form of bad-faith reversions of edits by User:Tony Sidaway (talk • contribs). It was petty and childish of me. Whatever frustration I felt, whatever personal justification I applied, whatever small sense of satisfaction resulted, there is no excuse for such behavior. It only served to increase tensions and divert energy from our common goal. I apologise to all involved. Insults in rhyming couplet will be kept and treasured forever.


 * Your name is allegedly Aaron Brenneman
 * But I think that's silly! Er, Amen.


 * Aaron Brenneman, he looks like an orange!
 * And it's not just that, he happens to be very borange! Dmcdevit·t 09:18, July 29, 2005 (UTC)

Cull I Please leave new messages at the bottom. The right to ruthlessly refactor is preserved.

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The Magic Dudes
Your last comment and signature on The Magic Dudes VfD made me laugh really, really hard. Thanks. Fernando Rizo 9 July 2005 16:41 (UTC)  This is done.

My RFA
Some comments on your reasonning:


 * His arbitrary removal of a "spurious" nomination to VfD - perhaps I misspoke in my edit comment. The vfd notice was simple vandalism by an anon. Check the history - the vfd notice had been removed twice over, by others.
 * His alteration of another editor's VfD vote... again, I think you're being unfair (and your wording implies that I changed the vote). I didn't change his vote, merely removed wikipediafascism - VFD isn't a soapbox for people ranting and insults; it's there for voting.

As to the other two... well, I still think they were right, but I won't try to discuss them. William M. Connolley 09:21:09, 2005-07-14 (UTC).  This is done.

Snide - adjective derogatory in an insinuating manner.
(Copied from Tony's talk page.) Tony - Ok, I'm just going to be straight, rather than careful and precise. There are two possibilities here: either you're a nice guy or you're not. Being a nice guy in no way precludes you from disagreeing with me, or even agreeing with me while thinking I'm a jerk. Since I'll never actually know, I have to use faith and treat you like a misguided nice guy. Your often responsed to critisicm with "I'm sorry, you're upset and I have no idea why."
 * "utter incomprehension"
 * "you're upset, I'm baffled"
 * "I'm mystified, you're upset"
 * " [You're] distress [ed], I can't understand"

Intentionally or not, this is condescending. Both upset and distress mean "mentally perturbed". But not using the word anger or an analog, you deny even the possibility that the other person has a reason to be angry. Being "dumbfounded" at their "distress" compounds this further. I'd like you to go back to Votes for deletion/The 20 Cent Quest and try and look at your comments with a fresh set of eyes. Whatever your intentions, you don't sound like a nice guy here. You sound like seomone who made a claim, didn't like it being challenged, and made subtle and artful attacks rather than backing up your claims. And it made me angry, no question. It would be dishonest of me to say that this exchange had nothing to do with the RfC. I believe I would have done the same thing had it not occured, but I don't know. There are a lot of strong feelings being expressed, and I'm listening to what people have to say. Your comments to date do not give the appearance that you're doing the same. I would only ask that you try and learn something from all of this, just as I will. brenneman (t) (c) 06:19, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

(moved from above to preserve continuity.) Aaron, let me just say that your comments frequently cause me utter and complete bafflement. Interacting with you on the movie VfD was almost painful because however politely I tried to make my statements you reacted as if to some slight. My "comment" is met with an "irritated comment", which comprises all kinds of quite bizarre accusations and bear an edit summary "Reply to Straw man.". I politely rebut the accusations, inasmuch as I can understand them, apologising for upsetting you, and you launch into a tirade accusing me of using loaded language, describing my actions as "pernicious". Aaron, please think it possible that if I say I find your statements baffling, eyebrow-raising, and inappropriate, it may be because you seem to be disposed to take expressions of disagreement as personal slights. The least I can do in the circumstances is to endeavor to avoid upsetting you further by having any more to do with you.--Tony Sidaway Talk 06:42, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

Tony - did you even read anything I wrote? You're reply is exactly what I'm trying to illustrate to you. Please, please, try and see someone else's point without being "baffled". If you are actually incapable of doing so, have someone else look over that exchange. Pick someone with whom you disagree but respect, and ask them if it's really so incredible that I would feel that you were not being straightforward. There is no question I can sometimes be a pig: curt, sharp, and prone to excitability. The only question is will you take any responsibility, or simply contine to be baffled. brenneman (t) (c) 06:58, 2 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Aaron, please try to understand that I long ago lost patience with your antics. I don't know whether this is an irritable, passive-aggressive persona that you consciously adopt or whether it's the real you. Enough, I'm done, I've given up trying to cope with your tantrums and accusations. --Tony Sidaway Talk  07:07, 2 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Ok, it's clear now that the problem isn't me. How could I have been nicer above? How is that a "tantrum"?  Do you not notice that you've totally ignored everything I've said?  I suspect that we'll have to work together here for a long time, and that we'll be treading a lot of the same ground.  You really do have a choice, to continue as is, or try to make things better.  Do you like making people mad?  Wouldn't you rather have spent this time writing articles? Come on man, it doesn't have to be like this.  brenneman (t) (c)  07:18, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

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Re: 666666
oh comon, it should have been done =) its befitting that the first 666,666 article was 666666 =) lol. Betcha you had a good laugh! Sasquatch ↔讲↔看


 * rofl! well, better luck next time! I uploaded some screen shots of this historic day onto my user page. =) Sasquatch ↔讲↔看 07:00, August 4, 2005 (UTC)

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RfC
Please don't edit the response section of my RfC again. If you had only checked, you would have seen that I had moved the comment to the talk page and replied. Instead of which you made yet another false, baseless and personal allegation. This isn't the way to make friends and influence people. --Tony Sidaway Talk 14:02, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

How can I possibly look like I'm hiding anything? Firstly, I'm an administrator in good standing at Wikipedia. Secondly all editors assume good faith. Thirdly the comment was blatantly silly. Fourthly I responded to the poxy thing on the talk page. You really do seem to be going out of your way to be nasty about this whole silly affair. --Tony Sidaway Talk 14:13, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Tony, oh captain of good faith, you've just accused me of making "yet another false, baseless and personal allegation" for saying "Answering it is better than deleting it, then it doen't look like you're trying to hide anything". And, if you'll check the timing:
 * 13:39, 7 August 2005 I replace RF's comment
 * 13:40, 7 August 2005 You make a note on the talk page.

How about this: get someone else to tell me I've been nasty. Not that I've been wrong, because that's something else entirely. Find someone other than yourself who will look over my contributions and find personal attacks or somesuch. And get them to tell me so nicely, with specifics. If I am as you characterize me, that shouldn't be hard. brenneman (t) (c) 14:24, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

That you have made a false, baseless and personal allegation is a fact. Stop doing that, it isn't allowed on Wikipedia. And no, I won't get my Mom to tell you to stop being so beastly. *I* am telling you to stop. Just check the facts before you make false allegations. --Tony Sidaway Talk 14:41, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Stop, or I'll say "Stop" again!
Tony, Until you get appointed god-king, issuing commands like that is pointless. Take it up the food chain if you want, but you and your orders can... uhhh, what was it you said again about riding a hat? brenneman (t) <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(c) 12:38, 8 August 2005 (UTC) (That sound you hear is me laughing.)


 * Aaron, you do not get to decide what is appropriate behavior on this wiki. I'm going to adopt a strictly observational stance with you from now on; you're obviously not amenable to reason so I'll simply watch what you get up to and record it.  I hope the fact that I'm observing you and will miss nothing may persuade you to modify your attitude, if nothing else will. --Tony Sidaway Talk  13:12, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

(Copied here from other talk page.) Tony, Do I appear, up to this point, to have been modified by your input? I am unmoved by your empty threats. Here, do you need a link? Just in case you don't understand, let me be explicit: I am not afraid of public discourse. I am not afraid of your "observation". Use the link, make your case, let's see what happens. Otherwise, you'll just keep making me laugh. Because that's what I'm doing right now, Tony, I'm laughing my ass off. I actually laughed out loud when I saw your last message. I spat tea on my cat. brenneman <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(t) <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(c) 13:34, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

You write: "Do I appear, up to this point, to have been modified by your input?".

Um yes, since you ask. You've become increasingly abusive. The kind of thing you have been doing is against Wikipedia policy, you know. I'm just watching to see how far you will take it. --Tony Sidaway Talk 14:24, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Uncivil
Tony I have been uncivil in my last two messages. I will acknowledge that. Do you wonder at all why I might be becoming increasingly hostile in my dealings with you? I'm an adult, I can admit when I've shot my mouth off. Can you admit that you had some part in this? Tony, you called me a liar when I posted some diffs. Is this civil? brenneman <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(t) <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(c) 23:40, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

You've got a problem with time sequence here. My calling you a liar after you repeatedly made false and damaging accusations cannot possibly have provoked lies which you made before the accusation. --Tony Sidaway Talk 17:03, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Sidaway, The link provided shows where I have added a list of diffs with no commentary. Your edit summary is, "Again, Aaron lies". Your edit begins with "Again you lie.". Tony, I urge you again to examine the civility guidelines. brenneman <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(t) <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(c) 23:49, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

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Bucko
(Copied from Dave's talk page.) Dave,

Cheers, brenneman <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(t) <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(c) 13:32, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Please understand that I am trying to be as straight-forward as possible here. Comments such as "I won't request that your profile be deleted for violating official policy," tend to demonstrate that you don't understand policy.  More to the point, as I've mentioned before, you appear to not understand some of the basics of Wikipedia.
 * That's not an insult, and I'm sorry because I know that it sounds like one. It takes a long time to understand the interactions, unwritten rules, complex mix of rules, guidlines, precendents, and dictatorship that make Wikipedia work.  And once you think that you understand everything, some one points out WP:IAR and does what they want anyway!  Two thirds of the time I have no idea what is going on.
 * By looking at your edit history, I cannot help but notice that you've confined yourself to contributing to a narrow set of topics. Perhaps if you tried editing some other articles, get involved in some collaboration, a bit of back-and-forth over POV, and produce a shiny finished product, you'll get a better feel for things.
 * Because I can't imagine you're having any fun right now. I imagine instead that you're angry and frustrated and this is a bad thing.
 * But if you continue like this things aren't going to get any better for you. Really.  I'm going to keep trying to produce a great online encyclopedia that anyone can edit, I'm going to continue to make crazy edits, I'm going to keep working for balance.  I'm going to keep being patient, I'm going to continue to avoid insults.  I am going to keep believing.
 * If you think I'm out of line, maybe I am. I'd be mad to deny even the possibilty that I'm doing the wrong thing.  I've included some links, the next step would probably be Request for comment (RfC), as we don't seem to be able to communicate.  I was recently chewed up and spat out in an RfC I raised, but it is the next step if you feel I'm "after" you.  I'd imagine OrbitOne would provide the second signature for you.
 * Oh, it appears I was mistaken about the VfD. The consensus appears to be a merge into Infantilism.  Which means I'll probably end up heavily involved in the content of that article, too!

brenneman <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(t) <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(c)
 * Almost forgot, I believe you've misunderstood the relationship between GNU Free Documentation License and Copyrights. Please see User talk:OrbitOne, but I always do love to be proven wrong.  Which is lucky, because it happens all the time.

Well, you're right, I am new, and I don't fully understand all the vagaries of Wikipedia. But I have seen the rules for deletion, and understand them. I understand that you're violating them. I have seen requests for User Profiles to be deleted. I ahve seen references to User profiles that have been deleted. I have seen the reasons why. I have seen the majority of them have been deleted for vandalism. I understand that quite well. I also understand what vandalism is. And, I understand that it is what you are doing. Do you understand what you are doing? And do you understand what the consequences are? When the time comes, there won't be any more opportunities for you to reverse course. Before you bite off more than you can chew, make sure you think about what you are doing. Because as verbose as you may be, the moderator who deletes your profile will not be giving you a long speech about it when it happens. Dave 20:40, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

American?
Dave, I think that you may have been confused as to whom the author of the comment you were responding to actually was. While this is understandable, and in fact the reason I'm always clucking on about signatures, your response was not appropiate. I've placed some comments beneath yours, and I really suggest that you ask some one else for their advice. Find an advocate and drop a note on the page, please. Because "Why don't we just delete you" is a threat, and I will not tolerate another. brenneman <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(t) <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(c) 02:48, 11 August 2005 (UTC) No? Well, I won't tolerate your harrassment or your vandalism. Keep it up and you'll earn yourself one deleted profile. Dave 03:06, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

You are bound by the same rules as everyone else, bucko. Don't push your luck. You don't intimidate me, and I'll be the first to request you get the boot from this page. I don't think there'll be a shortage of supporters either, judging from the way you flame people.Dave 03:08, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Replied on your user's talk page. Offered to help open RfC against me. -  brenneman  color="000000" title="Admin actions">{L}

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brenneman is an asshole
Brenneman ought to be deleted...and he has no authority on discussions regarding deletion of JTV. I know about JTV and it is a valuable resource.

Thanks! ^_^ brenneman <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(t) <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(c)  05:22, 4 September 2005 (UTC)
 * That's a good sign! Whatever you're doing keep it up, it's working! Dmcdevit·t 05:23, September 4, 2005 (UTC)

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Essential tremor
I just noticed two edits of yours, reverts on this article:


 * 01:49, 9 September 2005 (hist) (diff) Essential tremor (Removed material added re-added (twice now) without use of talk page. Please use talk page before re-adding this material. Also please use preview.)
 * 01:32, 9 September 2005 (hist) (diff) Essential tremor (Please note that reverts without an edit summary or use of a talk page are fair game for removal. If there is a reason this section should go in, please use talk page.)

This seems a little OTT to me. Couldn't you just have edited the section to remove the superfluous external links? Insisting that the fellow go to a talk page about adding a section on support groups for a neurological condition to an article about that condition that already contains links to those same groups' websites seems, well, somewhat unnecessary. If they're worth linking to they're worth writing about. --Tony Sidaway Talk 02:45, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I did edit the section to remove the extra links. Then there was nothing left, so I removed the section.  When an editor repeatedly adds material back without edit summary than another use is removing, asking for use of the talk page is reasonable.  brenneman <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(t) <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(c)  03:02, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

I don't think you were very reasonable there. It is simply false to say that there was no informational content other than superfluous links. Since you did revert twice, I'd have prefered to see you actually use the talk page yourself to explain why you kept doing it. I still don't really know why you did it. --Tony Sidaway Talk 03:28, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

Tony, Thank you for your suprising interest in this issue. You'll note that the section was:
 * The Tremor Action Network is widely regarded as being the most supportive group for those with essential tremor. Also known as TAN, the Tremor Action Network is based in the USA, and has messageboards open to all for sympathtic and informed support.


 * The National Tremor Foundation is a friendly and supportive organisation based in Essex, UK.

I've bolded the section that was neither repeated nor NPOV. If you believe that this information warrented inclusion in the article in a little subsection all it's own, you are of course welcome to argue that. As to the rest, my edit summaries were quite clear, as seen above. I would do exactly the same with any persistant adding of external links without edit summary or use of talk page. brenneman <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(t) <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(c) 03:57, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

It's not so much the fact that the information you repeatedly removed warranted inclusion where it was NPOV (it obviously did, and you were obviously easily able to identify it) it was your bullying approach and your utterly false claim that someone must use a talk page prior to adding information to an article. That kind of behavior isn't only contrary to policy, it can be extremely damaging in an environment where we must do everything we can to cultivate, not alienate, new editors. If you do it again I'll come back and remind you of this. --Tony Sidaway Talk 04:27, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

Thanks Tony. Feel free to do so. - brenneman <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(t) <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(c)  05:34, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

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You made me laugh
Ok, I admit it, I did laugh heartily when I saw your comment. →Raul654 07:29, 20 September 2005 (UTC) <div style = "margin: 0 0 0 0;padding: 5px;border: solid 1px black; background-color: #7F8F4F; font-size: 85%;"> This is done.

Share

 * SHARE YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH USER ZOE ON User:LevKamensky TALK PAGE. Shillori 12:26, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Done. Thank, I always appreciate a chance to say something nice about someone I like. brenneman <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(t) <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(c)  12:44, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

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This user is demented
This user is obviously strange. For some reason he has chosen to take a personal vandetta on the articles I have created or editted, by tagging almost every erticle for deletion.

He obviously likes the conflict it causes (as can be seen by the dispute box on his user page). Can someone please ban this user indefinately before he causes more conflict. Treelovinhippie


 * It's more of an impersonal vendetta, actually. brenneman <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(t) <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(c)  05:48, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

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Darn, I blinked and missed it
It seems you went and placed a block Two dozen seconds by the clock I've never been blocked as being a vandal And sometime wondered how I would handle The pain and shame and humiliation But, now, alas, the situation Bears the most frustrating fruit: Now I've been blocked, but never knew it. Dpbsmith (talk) 18:50, 5 October 2005 (UTC) <div style = "margin: 0 0 0 0;padding: 5px;border: solid 1px black; background-color: #7F8F4F; font-size: 85%;"> This is done.

What happened there? An explanation:

 * The comments get fatter, not thinner,
 * For they remind us all of Snowspinner.
 * He, upon a time, offered the moteity
 * Of a thing called "semi-policy"
 * And argued, both loud and long,
 * That an insult would sound a gong
 * And straight 'way summon the guards
 * To remove it hence, and leave in shards
 * The discussion once found there.
 * Many complained and thicken'd the air
 * With laments, ruth, and some things worse,
 * For the matter made some of them curse!


 * Their words disappear'd from view,         }
 * Which made them their oaths renew,         }
 * And all was yellow and blackest bile too.  }
 * And some who questioned then and some who now }
 * Might be supposed to have a Holy Cow         }
 * Upon the field still grazing to lough         }
 * When she the prod on her soft flanks has stuck
 * And to be missed most sorely when struck.

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Thank you :)
Thanks for the acknowledgement! I've (hopefully) addressed your concerns on the AfD page. Collating the list did take a while, but it was what I felt like doing at the time, so there was no particular virtue in doing it, nor do I have an unhealthy attachment to it. If you're convinced it's actually harmful, please feel free to delete it! Personally, I certainly don't think it should be read instead of the discussion above it, but I feel that in the proper context, it's a useful bit of info. Cheers, and thanks again! :) --Ashenai (talk) 23:14, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Oh, also:

"Aaron Brenneman, scared of ninjas, Voted delete, which I found outringeous." <div style = "margin: 0 0 0 0;padding: 5px;border: solid 1px black; background-color: #7F8F4F; font-size: 85%;"> This is done.

Contructive criticism
Your a complete gay wad.
 * Thanks for noticing. - brenneman <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(t) <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(c)  02:18, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

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Illuminated manuscript
Hi! I just wanted to tell you that I've restored the Illuminated manuscript pic (because I took it) but put it in a gallery. Two good things follow; the pic can still be seen and other people can add pics to the gallery without the rather short article getting overloaded, I hope that's OK with you. Best Wishes - Adrian Pingstone 10:25, 14 October 2005 (UTC) <div style = "margin: 0 0 0 0;padding: 5px;border: solid 1px black; background-color: #7F8F4F; font-size: 85%;"> This is done.

Rewording?
I was wondering if you had a fix for my wording on Deletion Review? We can do it here, if you like or there, I don't particularly mind. As it stands, I don't think it will cause confusion, particularly with the help of Septentrionalis's addition to the 1st line.

I think we're almost there in terms of making the move, although the speedies question is a bit of a millstone. I think the immediate remedy to that is to accept the status quo and continue the debate through the move. After all, the main reason for the change is to being kept debates into scope rather than to stir up the speedy process. I'm going to put a to-do list on the talk page in a little while, but I'm happy to fiddle with the words. I don't think we should worry about them overly having said that, since they will probably need amending once first used anyway. -Splash talk 00:20, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Ok, thanks. I'll give it a final nudge later today. As for the rant, well, I quite agree. If people checked their egos and politics at the door, we'd all get on famously. It is a fact that this place operates without consequences for most, and the ArbCom are about to amply demonstrate their lack of spine by referring Steve to RfA. When they do so, I'll register my opposition and write a stinging inditement of the Committee to go with it. The reason we don't have revolutions (often) in real-life is that the government knows it'll get a kick in the teeth if they screw up. If admins here screw up, they just find a friend to cheer for them and it's all ok. Even when they do their research so carefully and act with so much thought as to summarily undelete copyright infringing text. Bah. -Splash talk 18:52, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

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A note
In regards to your edit at, I point out that the freedom of anonymous users to edit Wikipedia is a foundation issue, and that the mere fact of their anonymity is not sufficient grounds to revert - especially in the case of something that has been in a page for 18 months. Snowspinner 16:31, 17 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Quite. <fx: does waggy finger thing at Aaron while shaking head sorrowfully> --Tony Sidaway Talk  22:51, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

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Hi there!
Could you take a look at this, and see what you think? Thanks! Trollderella 19:37, 17 October 2005 (UTC) [] <div style = "margin: 0 0 0 0;padding: 5px;border: solid 1px black; background-color: #7F8F4F; font-size: 85%;"> This is done.

A thanks
-- just because :-) --HappyCamper 01:45, 18 October 2005 (UTC) <div style = "margin: 0 0 0 0;padding: 5px;border: solid 1px black; background-color: #7F8F4F; font-size: 85%;"> This is done.

IgnoreAllRules
Hi! Would you be able to say anything about User:IgnoreAllRules? Thanks! - David Gerard 10:45, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
 * It's nice to know that your supreme power is unchecked my any sense of responsibilty. - brenneman <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(t) <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(c)  22:22, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
 * So would it be fair to say that you are aware of the identity of the IgnoreAllRules vandal? --Tony Sidaway Talk 23:01, 18 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Er, so do you know who it is or not? What "responsibility" would you be speaking of? Please answer the first question first - David Gerard 23:45, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Why Mr. Gerard is that an IP sniffer in your pocket or are you just glad to see me? brenneman <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(t) <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(c)  00:45, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Anyone reading the above might think you knew the identity of a vandal but were disingenuously concealing it. --Tony Sidaway Talk 01:45, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
 * The only people lacking in frankness here are you and David. - brenneman <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(t) <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(c)  01:49, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
 * In that case, you can show everybody just how frank you are and tell us all what you know about the vandal. --Tony Sidaway Talk 04:20, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

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Serious problems
The problems are pretty obvious. The whole thing seriously misstates both deletion policy and undeletion policy. To claim that it's been arrived at by consensus is to state a very palpable untruth. --Tony Sidaway Talk 01:05, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Aaron, do please stop being unreasonable. You've twice falsely claimed that I should use the talk page or block you for 3RR. Since you've come nowhere near to breaking the 3RR, and I have no intention of doing so, and I have used the talk page whereas you have simply taunted me in edit summaries, it's becoming utterly surreal. I'll have another go at reformulating a policy-compatible version of the wording here. Do please try to discuss instead of edit warring/ --Tony Sidaway Talk 01:22, 19 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Please address my points, Aaron. Putting a redirect over my requests will not make them go away. --Tony Sidaway Talk 01:34, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Come on now, stop playing silly buggers. I'm trying to reconcile the nonsense on the page header with Wikipedia policy. I have been posing many alternative suggestions to try to work out what it is that you object to in my formulation of Wikipedia policy, but until you stop blindly reverting we won't be able to get anything done. --Tony Sidaway Talk 01:45, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it's soooo easy to hide something when every edit is... hey, look over there! A link to all my contributions! Drat, my nefarious plan to keep my antics secret is foiled by those meddling kids! -  brenneman <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(t) <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(c)  02:20, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

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Skyring
Thanks for that. I was beginning to think that all of Wikipedia had lost their wits and civilised discourse was a thing of the past.

Pete, not Poet <div style = "margin: 0 0 0 0;padding: 5px;border: solid 1px black; background-color: #7F8F4F; font-size: 85%;"> This is done.

Are you using a sockpuppet account?
I am just curious if you are using a sockpuppet account? You don't have to answer of course and if I am causing you any distress by asking, or if you feel that I am in some sort of violation due to the bluntness of my question I apologize.--MONGO 03:33, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Responded on your socks. Uhh, I mean "talk" -  brenneman <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(t) <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(c)  04:21, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I am familiar with the reasons under which the IP trace for evidence of sockpuppetry would only occur in dire circumstances. I was just curious about IgnoreAllRules as it seems he was targeting User:Tony Sidaway and I saw that you had reverted him several times. I noticed that IgnoreAllRules was vandalizing articles that Tony had edited.--MONGO 04:24, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Well, most who know my editing know I tend to not be circumlocutory so would you say that User:IgnoreAllRules is your sockpuppet account? --MONGO 04:39, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Not to further badger, but I was noticing that you didn't make any edits from this account from 02:15, October 18, 2005 to 02:46, October 18, 2005. User:IgnoreAllRules made 11 edits in 3 minutes between 02:41, October 18, 2005 to 02:44, October 18, 2005. All eleven edits had as edit summary; "I'm Tony! I know best!!". In light of recent issues between you and Tony and other rather strange coincidences that can be elaborated further if need be, well, I really like people that are straight forward and honest. For the record, I log in from two locations, both in Nebraska (armpit of middle Earth). --MONGO 04:52, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

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 * Aaron, I don't fault the use of sock accounts, and respect that since you use your real name, one may come in handier for you than it would for me, not that you do use one. A brief spree of obvious vandalism, I could forgive that...no big deal...I know you and Tony are at odds and if indeed you performed these vandalisms, well, they weren't that bad overall, and at least you and others quickly reverted them. Now in regards to someone tracking your IP...I don't have that capability but noticed the vandalism while on RC Patrol..the username IgnoreAllRules (redlined) struck me as a potential vandal, but I was overedited by another with a faster trigger doing the revert. I often rely on Occam's Razor due to nature of my real life job...the easiest explanation is usually the right one. Now as far as a breach of admin ethics regarding an unauthorized IP query...I am not familiar with that set of rules but not sure they matter as proof any more than my little time flow above described...I mean, even if the IP was the same, you could always say that your little brother was messing around while you were away for a few minutes. I know you have morte integrity than to want to hide, so, as you've requested, I'll butt out. Respectfully, I do not want to hound anyone.--MONGO 05:24, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

What the...
Aaron, you just deleted all but one of the links to the sari article -- including several that were referenced IN the article, several that consisted only of instructions on HOW to wrap a sari, and several that went to commercial sites, yes, but to the "all about saris" sections of commercial sites.

I've been busting linkspammers for a year and a half, and I don't think I've let any "buy my saris" links past me. I'm restoring the links. I beg you, PLEASE, if you're going to delete links, check first to see if there's anyone actively maintaining the article. Zora 06:10, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Zora, Sorry to give you a heart attack. Obviously I used my judgment, and I did click through each of the links. Put back anything you think I've been over-zealous on. See, the system works, co-operation, etc! ^_^ brenneman <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(t) <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(c)  07:00, 19 October 2005 (UTC) <div style = "margin: 0 0 0 0;padding: 5px;border: solid 1px black; background-color: #7F8F4F; font-size: 85%;"> This is done.

Re: SPAM: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Albert M. Wolters
Sorry I didn't get your message in time to say anything before the new nomination was speedily kept. Ho hum! -- red stucco 08:40, 19 October 2005 (UTC) <div style = "margin: 0 0 0 0;padding: 5px;border: solid 1px black; background-color: #7F8F4F; font-size: 85%;"> This is done.

Tony
Yeah - Tony's bugging the heck out of me too. I might be on wikibreak for a while but let me know if he gets up to his antics again and I'll help you out. Don't let him get to you either - he's just doing his usual. Ryan Norton T 10:06, 19 October 2005 (UTC)


 * As a side note I'd take a break too if I were you just to relax a bit and let some steam out. Come at it with a fresh mind, perhaps :) Ryan Norton T 10:17, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

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VFU header block
I have blocked both you and Tony for three hours for revert warring on this page. I realize this is mostly a matter of principle since both of you can unblock yourself, but I would ask both of you to please consider that revert warring is harmful no matter where or by whom. Please discuss on the talk page and seek consensus on the content of the VFU header. Yours, Radiant_ &gt;|&lt; 11:48, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

I have unblocked you. Please see WP:ANI. Sjakkalle (Check!)  11:59, 19 October 2005 (UTC) <div style = "margin: 0 0 0 0;padding: 5px;border: solid 1px black; background-color: #7F8F4F; font-size: 85%;"> This is done.

Hey
Aaron. I saw your note earlier in the day and am responding properly now. From what happened, and from what I see on Splash's page, I think you're currently under what has been called "wikistress". Wikipedia can be very callous, unfriendly, unfair, and sharp. The main reason it is so is because it is populated by humans. :)

It doesn't have to be though—or if it is, it doesn't have to affect you much. Don't let it. Realize this for what it is: an impressively imperfect project aimed at creating an impossible thing. It is, or can be seen as, noble, and I believe some day many years from now its descendent will be. We are the ephemeral, transitory, invisible, anonymous workers helping it toward that goal. When it is achieved we'll be long gone. It is altruism that keeps us here, now, while it is massively, almost unimaginably, imperfect. A little more imperfection, a few more silly edits, a bit of reverting here and warring there, someone being impossible—don't let it trouble you. If someone insists on a view that you believe is incorrect, by all means engage him and tell him why you think it should be done another way. Don't forget the other part of the bargain: listen to what he says. Try for a solution. If it is impossible, try to do the right thing (this can be hard). But whatever you do, if you find it includes feeling that it might be a good idea to vandalize a couple of pages, even if temporarily, even for a short while, it's likely best to take a break.

With the current disagreement, I believe most editors who have an interest in deletion policy on WP will agree with the version you're trying to keep on WP:DRV. That can be seen very simply—that version is theirs. Tony feels that it is invalid, for two reasons. The first is he believes "if in doubt don't delete" is a kind of "chief precept" of deletion policy that should be prominently placed in DR. The second is he believes DR should not be restricted to questions of what has come to be termed "process". This second issue is actually more complicated than it appears. I think we're all actually closer to agreement than most think we are, but it will need to be discussed with some care in the coming weeks/months.

The first issue is less complicated. One thing I'd like to say in Tony's defense is that he keeps being told that his addition of IIDDD to the template is inadvisable, but I don't recall anyone actually explaining (or attempting to explain) why (I may be wrong though. Has anyone?). It is true that the current version has wide acceptance among the editors who're actually involved with the running and working of DR. However, if someone says that something's not right with it because it conflicts with policy, that needs to be examined, whether or not most of us agree on the current version. I can post my view on this, later. Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong, but perhaps with a discussion on the actual merits of IIDDD, we might find ourselves—all of us, Tony, Kappa, Splash, Rossami, an everyone else—coming to an agreeable solution.

You are an excellent editor, Aaron. Too valuable to loose. Please be happy and well. I'm going to be away for a while myself, so I will not be able to contribute to any ensuing discussion, but I'm sure everyone concerned will be able to decide something satisfactory. Regards enceph  alon  20:11, 19 October 2005 (UTC) NB. By the way, your note on my page suggests you might believe me to be a sysop. I'm not, Aaron. I've turned down 5 or 6 nom offers now, I think. I might go up for it in a couple of months, but I'm afraid I can't do any blocks for you at the moment. :) <div style = "margin: 0 0 0 0;padding: 5px;border: solid 1px black; background-color: #7F8F4F; font-size: 85%;"> This is done.

Hey back
(Was just about to go to bed, forgive any thinkos and/or rambling) I don't know when I first encountered Tony, but it was months ago, and I think even before you did, just in the normal course of editing, and his talk page has been on my watchlist since. I've always respected his judgment, dedication, and helpfulness. Even after he restored one of my first, zealous, speedies. (As an aside, I don't know how it is possible for anyone to get on Radiant's bad side or vice versa, but it happened. Haven't talked much recently, but Radiant and I used to see each other a lot, indeed he nominated me for my adminship. He is one of the most open and reasonable people I know on WP.) I'm pretty sure I remember way back in the primordial depths of time when this thing between you and Tony started. It was about some VFD debate, likely a school, right? Then you encountered each other on VFD again and again, it spread to talk pages, and spread more. I'm not even sure when we met, Aaron, (though I just realized that silly note at the top of this page is from July), but I've had enough rational discussions with you, and seen you around as well, that I long ago came to the conclusion that I could trust and respect your judgment, dedication, and helpfulness. I think you (plural) are level-headed and reasonable, and I would point a needy editor to either of you. You (plural) can also be abrasive, stubborn, and, yes, coy. That happens, somehow, mostly only when you encounter each other, or the issues that spark this. My point is: why?

I must admit (don't know if I should be guilty about it, but I'm guilty about not knowing :) that your admission hasn't really changed my opinion of you (good judgment, dedicated, stubborn, etc.) in that I still have cmplete confidence that I would trust a decision by you, and that you still have that inborn WP hatred of all vandals. Not to compare them, but neither of Tony's RFC have changed my confidence in him either. I think, independent of each other and the general tussle, you are best. What have you gained from it, besides much undue stress and insanity? I'm sure it's been suggested before, but now would be the time to just drop it. It isn't anything that I think mediation, or another RFC, or even (Jimbo forbid) and RFAr could help. This doesn't mean you give in, or thatI think you two can become best wikifriends overnight. But how about if you refused to engage each other? Period (well, it was a question mark). I'm convinced that by now your banter does nothing but inflame each other. Watching this slowly spiral away has been painful for many I'm sure. I've seen both of you lose control in different ways and to different degrees. But if we all are to accept your apology as sincere (I certainly do) the least you could do is start over and give it a shot. Disputes between good-faith, trustworthy editors are worse that trolls and vandals: they divide the community, and create factions where none need to be. Don't ever forget how much good you can still do for this wonderful encyclopedia, but also try to think up how much more you could have done in that time you wasted thinking about Tony. Again, my point is: why? Not just why have this dispute, but why are we all here (including Tony)? Let that guide you.

(Oh yeah, and if you really want to make me happy, fix this :) Dmcdevit·t 08:22, 24 October 2005 (UTC) <div style = "margin: 0 0 0 0;padding: 5px;border: solid 1px black; background-color: #7F8F4F; font-size: 85%;"> This is done.

Re:Signature
Haha. You're right. I guess I wouldn't blame someone if they changed my name to 'fresh eats figs'. I just started using a template because I thought the code was unnecessarily long and it clogged up the AfD listings every time I put a vote. Didn't really think of the concequences on the server. I just saw User:Purplefeltangel doing the same thing and thought it was a good idea. I'll work on simplifying the code as much as I can and revert it back.

By the way, it's not meant to be unreadable, as User:NatusRoma pointed out. I'm not sure what it looks like to you but it's just supposed to be white text on a blue background. If you're seeing it incorrectly too then maybe I should just give up : (. <font size="-2" color="white" style="background:blue"> freshgavin <font size="-2" color="blue">ΓΛĿЌ  23:44, 24 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Fixed, I think. It's not a template anymore. The problem for Firefox is probably the style=background tag but I simplified it as much as I can so maybe it will work for you (guys) now. <font size=-2 color=white style=background:blue> freshgavin <font size=-2 color=white style=background:blue>TALK  07:06, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

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Losing my adminship
Yeah, I'd do it in a heartbeat. I'm not terribly worried about losing my adminship, because I stand firmly behind almost all of my actions, and despite Tony's doubts, I don't doubt my motivations. Anyway, even if I did lose my admin priveleges, I could still edit, and I could get out of all the messy politics associated with the position. Besides, if I didn't get re-adminned, then I probably wasn't doing a terribly good job in the first place, and I could probably learn a lot from the experience. Thanks for your note!--Scimitar parley 23:50, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/Able and Baker (2nd nomination)
No, they just convinced me that the article merits inclusion. However, that said, I'd really like for some broader discussion about what is an acceptable source for comics. WP:COMIC is quite inadequate right now. Tito xd (?!?) 02:49, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Transwiki log
Basically the transwiki process has become this kind of endless cycle that never gets completed. I wrote the instructions there, and hope they make some sense. An article is transwikied because, presumably, it doesn't belong here. The TL, as a record of transwikied articles, is a list of articles that need cleanup in some way. Just take any article and deal with it appropriately (merge, send to AFD) and strike it out when you are done (or upon resolution of AFD) or if it is encyclopedic enough now (some are old enough to have changed substantially). Any stricken entry can be archived whenever. If we take corn soup, I'd say find somewhere to redirect it or just take it to AFD as it was transwikied to Wikibooks Cookbook wikibooks:Cookbook:Corn_soup 2 months ago with out any changes since, and WP:NOT a how-to (recipe). Finally any resolved Wiktionary entries should have transwikied to Wiktionary replaced with Transwiki to Wiktionary Finished. (Very few of the archived ones do, but going back and fixing that is probably lower priority atm.) That's it in a nutshell, did it make sense? Thanks! Dmcdevit·t 05:22, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

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Titoxd's RfA
Thank you for supporting me in my RfA. I never thought I would get so much support! Thanks to your help, my nomination was the 10th most supported RfA in Wikipedia history. Now, please keep an eye out on me while I learn the new tools, ok? Thanks again! Tito xd (?!?) 17:37, 25 October 2005 (UTC) <div style = "margin: 0 0 0 0;padding: 5px;border: solid 1px black; background-color: #7F8F4F; font-size: 85%;"> This is done.

Sorry!
I moved Pin. and FooT at VfU about a minute before you, hence the bizarrity you experienced. Ooops. :) Xoloz 06:31, 26 October 2005 (UTC) <div style = "margin: 0 0 0 0;padding: 5px;border: solid 1px black; background-color: #7F8F4F; font-size: 85%;"> This is done.

Your proposal to Tony Sidaway
Please explain to me why I should be ashamed of stating that Tony might benefit from opening himself up to some real'' community input? Clearly there is precedent. brenneman <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(t) <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(c) 02:41, 26 October 2005 (UTC)''
 * Your proposal involved a breach of Wikipedia policy (admins are not permitted to stand for confirmation except in the rare case of being ordered to by the ArbCom, something which has only happened twice), and furthermore (if followed) would have extended conflict rather than reduced it. Wikipedia is not a dueling ground, and we do not need people exacerbating disputes through grandstanding.  Fortunately, Scimitar and Tony, both being adults, were able to resolve their dispute and reach a position that was mutually acceptable to the both of them without having to go at it with swords and sticks in the middle of the public square -- something which you clearly would have desired.  Your bloodthirstiness for Tony's sysop flag has been noted, and is that that of which you should be ashamed.  Kelly Martin (talk) 15:08, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Randomly happened by the page. I don't wish to condone everything said against Mr. Sidaway, but I see nothing wrong per se with a request that Mr. Sidaway stand for reconfirmation.  Only the Arbcom could compel him to do so, of course, but asking him (in light of the recent controversy), seems perfectly reasonable to me.  Of course, such request should be made politely.  If there is a policy prohibiting voluntary reconfirmations, I'd like to know where it is, and I'd like to object to it.  Anyone should be free to voluntarily re-stand. Xoloz 18:40, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

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Hi Aaron
Hi Aaron. I would be delighted if you would vote here at my rfa. It's a pretty tight race ;). Thank you. :) -- a.n.o.n.y.m   t 00:17, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your message. Sure take your time and consider my contribs. I am sure you won't fall victim to some of the bad faith comments. ;) Also you're not an admin? I thought you were! Where is your rfa? -- a.n.o.n.y.m  t 01:10, 27 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Okay, just don't make them really tough or long. ;) -- a.n.o.n.y.m  t 01:22, 27 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Thank you very much for your support. :) -- a.n.o.n.y.m  t 01:56, 27 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your message. You mentioned 50 votes, just wondering don't I need 66% of support? Thanks. a.n.o.n.y.m   t 10:36, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

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Thanks
Us delitonist vandals need to stick together. User:Zoe|(talk) 01:59, 27 October 2005 (UTC) <div style = "margin: 0 0 0 0;padding: 5px;border: solid 1px black; background-color: #7F8F4F; font-size: 85%;"> This is done.

Re: Daniel Spillane
Aaron Brenneman said: Oops. Thanks for cleaning that up. I must have only hit "preview" and ignored that big red warning.

That's not a problem. I cleared it up pretty quick anyway, I'm sure before most people got a chance to spin between Recent Changes and the article's deletion notice.

Have a good one. Bobo192 06:30, 27 October 2005 (UTC) <div style = "margin: 0 0 0 0;padding: 5px;border: solid 1px black; background-color: #7F8F4F; font-size: 85%;"> This is done.

Greetings returned
I'm sorry about that,

I tried to be as judicious as I could -- I can't pick out particular comments from you, because I feel much as you do and as strongly as you do on these issues. My intent was only to distinguish your specific conduct from a general example. Sadly, the "vandal" stuff makes your conduct an honest sticking point with the opposition, and I cannot defend that logically (though a part of my id clearly enjoyed it, to be honest!)

Relatedly, Mr. Sidaway acknowledges that he is an admitted unabashed egotist. I have no problem saying anywhere -- and for all times, places, and people -- that unabashed egotists always fail eventually. Because he knows what I've told you, and I've said it to him directly, this can hardly be considered a personal attack, or even, really, a comment "behind his back." So, you see, we are of like minds in much of this issue.

If I am restrained, it comes from having dealt with the insults of Southern bigots, and yet having defended their right to speak in my former job with the American Civil Liberties Union. Comparately, Mr. Sidaway is a saint. Only comparatively. :)

You do fine work, and I commend you (despite the recent lapse with which I firmly disagree),

Best wishes, Xoloz 07:32, 27 October 2005 (UTC) <div style = "margin: 0 0 0 0;padding: 5px;border: solid 1px black; background-color: #7F8F4F; font-size: 85%;"> This is done.

Oh please
I just wanted to give him an easy question. People have been taking this whole thing much too seriously. I accidently included my userpage page forgot that was the inclusion opperator.

Have fun Klonimus 08:54, 27 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Cmon, dont be a wikilawyer, that was in no way intended as vandalism and I got your message. Klonimus 09:05, 27 October 2005 (UTC)


 * All good. Klonimus 17:32, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

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Watching with eyes in the back of my head
You don't say. Lots of accounts, but I wonder how many people. SlimVirgin <sup style="color:purple;">(talk) 08:58, 27 October 2005 (UTC) <div style = "margin: 0 0 0 0;padding: 5px;border: solid 1px black; background-color: #7F8F4F; font-size: 85%;"> This is done.

RfC View
I think your argument is basically correct, and dispassionate. (I'm not sure if Mr. Sidaway's view is always binary -- he sees grey sometimes, but once he's certain, his grey becomes the perfect, only acceptable grey -- but the briefer way you've explained it is better for persuasion.) That said, I think it is highly likely that his response will be defensive, and it is also highly likely he will dismiss your view with a mention of the recent past events. Still, this is a good thing to have in the record. I'm also secretly hopeful that, whatever his defensive public face, he might privately take these criticisms to heart and work to improve.

In any case, if IAR isn't used sparingly, I expect tensions to accelerate, so I have hope that the problem will remain under control. Xoloz 06:51, 28 October 2005 (UTC) <div style = "margin: 0 0 0 0;padding: 5px;border: solid 1px black; background-color: #7F8F4F; font-size: 85%;"> This is done.

Deletion_review
Umn? It isn't there. User:Zoe|(talk) 00:44, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

WP:TFD
It should be gone. It's ridiculous. User:Zoe|(talk) 01:27, 29 October 2005 (UTC) <div style = "margin: 0 0 0 0;padding: 5px;border: solid 1px black; background-color: #7F8F4F; font-size: 85%;"> This is done.

#wikipedia
No, I don't IRC a lot, for lack of time on my part, and because an inconvenient time zone difference. Radiant_ &gt;|&lt; 11:53, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

Veering
Yes, you're right. I'm sorry. I've been rather virulent in that DRV debate, haven't I? I just don't see a whisker of reason to restore the first article, and the second is only teenage spewage (imio). And Chalst has twice recently tried to tell when/where I should or shouldn't edit, and anyone who tries to so lecture me is likely to be reminded of the first two syllables of the website's name.

Anyway, yes, everything's ok (though RL is trying at present), and thanks for asking. I'll cool myself down. I just noticed the talk page for DRV. It fell off my watchlist in the move, and there's been loads going on. Annoying, but the outcome seems to be little change. I am concerned about the standing inconsistency between DRV and undel policy, though. The proposal changes the policy, after all, despite the protestations that such is somehow impossible. Perhaps today's frame-of-mind isn't the one with which I should make such a change, though. -Splash talk 04:28, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
 * So I learnt a new word. I didn't know one could recidivise(?). Anyway, no I won't, but then I won't give experienced editors who exhibit such sorry misunderstandings an easy ride, either. The trouble with your RfA is that I don't think a single incident need be taken as evidence of calamitous judgement from a familiar editor. But then, it was quite a serious infraction. But then, you certainly wouldn't do that again. But then others did point out some other lapses. But then they (the opposers) have so many sour grapes they could make wine, and I didn't want to join them. And I don't feel neutral about your RfA. So I'm left being unable to vote at all. Which is complicated. I'll stab you in the back some other time, if you like. -Splash talk 01:44, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
 * ^^ That is a very good characterization of how I felt, too. Didn't know what to do, but I didn't want to say nothing at all. Dmcdevit·t 02:00, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

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RFA
Well, I'm glad to see you're back to your usual levelheaded self. As you probably noticed, you recently had me thinking that you already were an admin (and IIRC, David thought the same). I realize this may turn out controversial because of the recent events, but I believe that whenever I think someone is an admin and it turns out he isn't, he deserves to be nominated. So, would you accept it? Or would you prefer to wait awhile? Radiant_ &gt;|&lt; 10:52, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Done. See User:Aaron Brenneman/RFA. Please fill in the questions at your leisure, modify the closing time accordingly, and move it to a RFA subpage. Radiant_ &gt;|&lt;

Aaron, I think you would be a good admin, but the timing of this RfA is awful. At any time, this would have brought out the worst type of partisan warfare in some. But two weeks after that incident, many of us who would otherwise have supported you will be unable to do so. I just opposed User:purplefeltangel for vandalism three months ago, it would be hipocrisy to support this now. This will fail, and some of your more partisan critics will enjoy it. Can I suggest that either now, or immediately the trend becomes obvious, you in good spirit withdraw this - humbly aknowledging that the community's trust has been damaged by the sockpuppetry. If you do, you will score some credibility points with others, and I for one will be happy to support you in a month or so. Then I suspect it may (and will deserve to) succeed.Doc (?) 14:40, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Don't take the martyrdom too far. A graceful exit will clean your slate.  Prolong too long and it will look like another example of you disrupting the system to make a point.  I'm tempted to support your nom right now but then I'd be accused of making a point too LOL.  Keep on asking the tough questions.  Good job David D. (Talk) 17:04, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, there are some things that do need airing, so perhaps twenty-four hours? I do want to hear what people have to say.  It's a shame that I appear to be so one-dimensionally defined, and a bit of a suprise.  I expected a lot more of "oppose" good with policy and gentle with newbies, but recent rash actions were, well, rash." and a lot less of "oppose" no idea about civility."  There really is only one person I can't seem to get along with... -  brenneman <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(t) <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(c)  17:19, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
 * You will notice that the neutrals and even many opposes are 'later' votes. But really, don't push it. A graceful retreat, and another shot in 6-8 weeks. Meantime stay well away from Tony - neither of you ends up looking good.--Doc (?) 17:40, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Radiant's vote
CC - I took off this vote, as I notice that his hurdle is simply that he mistook me for an admin, not that he thinks I should be one. - brenneman <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(t) <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(c)  13:40, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Man I sweat blood over the answers to those questions! And the only comment on them was "once they are answered..." Pooh. -  brenneman <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(t) <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(c)  01:42, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I think I am not required to revaluate my vote the instant you make your posts. RfA's last so long for a reason. Geez. -- Cool Cat Talk 02:32, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Just a hug
Hi, No hard feelings, friend. You've shown grace under pressure here, and I know you'll be given the due recognition once things settle down. We all know you could do better than the worst admins we have now, even if 99% of your brain were tied behind your back! ;) Best, Xoloz 03:32, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

RFA, of course
You already have at least four sections about your RFA, so here's another one!

You have no idea how many other, less respected, names went through my head when I saw a section heading calling me a "Cheeky Monkey." I actually thought "Ugh. Who's going to be bitching at me now about a 3RR block?" (check out, ). This admin thing is actually sparing you a lot of trouble. :-) Really, community respect/trust is much more important than a few extra buttons. I would part with them easily if I didn't think I was doing the community some good by pressing them once in a while. Just keep cool. Really.In fact, I'd like to nominate you when the time's right.

About the TL, the truth is, I have no idea. The purpose of it right now is as a list of articles that need cleanup/deletion, as the fact that they were transwikied means they were improper. I think the word transwiki tends to scare people away for some reason, though. Basically, very few people have ever touched that page (and if the software upgrade hadn't broken my bot, it would be five times as big, at least). Take a look at the archives and you'll see some old resolved entries, almost entirely done by just me, by hand. If you take a bit out of that page, I might give you something special! (meaning a picture of something special, oooh...)

My talk page is always there for you, if you ever want an opinion on something, (or want to know what I think before saying something stupid :) I have to admit, sometimes you just make me laugh, and maybe that's why I like you. Remember that edit summary discussion on Splash's talk page...? :-) Take care. Dmcdevit·t 03:51, 3 November 2005 (UTC) <div style = "margin: 0 0 0 0;padding: 5px;border: solid 1px black; background-color: #7F8F4F; font-size: 85%;"> This is done.

They will think I am a fool or psycho-path,
Well, gee, why would somebody think that? User:Zoe|(talk) 03:26, 8 November 2005 (UTC) <div style = "margin: 0 0 0 0;padding: 5px;border: solid 1px black; background-color: #7F8F4F; font-size: 85%;"> This is done.

Thanks
Thank you, Aaron; many others have tried. See Requests for comment/FuelWagon 2. SlimVirgin <sup style="color:purple;">(talk) 04:21, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Hey, (yes I'm stalking you) if you are researching that dispute, I've always thought this was one of the more humorous manifestations of the conflict. (No disrespect to SlimVirgin intended.)
 * :-) Dmcdevit·t 05:16, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
 * LOL!! Aaron, you're fantasizing about me wearing my poodle's jumper? I don't know whether that's rude. I suppose it depends on how you're visualizing it. Good luck investigating the car crash. [[image:tongue.png]] SlimVirgin <sup style="color:purple;">(talk) 05:55, 3 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Exactly my point, it's hypnotic. - brenneman <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(t) <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(c)  05:56, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

But I will be looking at it in earnest, it's no good, really no good. <div style = "margin: 0 0 0 0;padding: 5px;border: solid 1px black; background-color: #7F8F4F; font-size: 85%;"> This is done.

RFA withdrawal
I don't see any point in keeping the RFA, and I would prefer you withdraw it and start afresh after sometime. Regards, =Nichalp   «Talk»=  05:37, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I disagree. Why should you do that?  Is Nichalp worried that you might actually win?  User:Zoe|(talk) 05:45, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Hee. What would it take? Jimbo weighing in?  He does owe me that favour after the Argentenian twins fiasco, but I was really saving that for something special... -  brenneman <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(t) <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(c)


 * Hi! I've removed your nomination. The problem is the pileon votes which will increase. RFA is the forum to ascertain the suitability of a candidate for adminship. For feedback, an RFC on yourself would be better. Having your nomination go on would be pointless IMHO, and unnecessarily increase the server load. Regards, PS I think the latter pronounciation would be fine. Nichalp is a combination of a few letters of my name, and surname. Regards,  =Nichalp   «Talk»=  06:01, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Oh. All right then.  I must be honest and say that seems, well, overly officious.  I'm aware that an RfC would be the place had I been seeking feedback, but here I was trying to elicit more of what had been forthcoming.  As to the "pile on" I'm not sure how that's a problem, as if they had brought points that I could improve that hadn't been touched yet, that would be the point.  Finally, server load... that leaves me gobsmacked.  You've got a templated sig.  I'm not fussed by the removal per se but, well, yeah.  Gobsmacked. -  brenneman <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(t) <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(c)  06:11, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, the general consensus is that if an RFA receives oppose votes exceed the support votes by 10, then the RFA should be removed. (Its in the WP:RFA talk page archives, about a month back). Do you still find it officious? I know I'm guilty of templated signatures, but its a few bytes only as opposed to an rfa bid which is in tens of kbs. I was actually referring to the fact that the page was ~400kb. May I have the liberty of giving you a few tips for a sucessful nomination? =Nichalp   «Talk»=  06:31, 3 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Sure. =Nichalp   «Talk»=  06:40, 3 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Where is the policy that authorizes this action on an RFA that was not set to close until November 9? User:Zoe|(talk) 03:42, 4 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Ahem *blush* I did in fact mean RFA, not RFC ;-) This RFA was IMO put forward with possibly the worst imaginable timing. But that you answered objections in good grace does put you in good stead for next time, which will undoubtedly happen in whatever number of months - David Gerard 10:35, 3 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Damn it, this got removed before I could vote yes. Is there no justice? · Katefan0(scribble) 00:08, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

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Merging and context
I was interested to the recent comments by Hypocrite at Afd for Grove School


 * I would be happy to help. I assume the intention is to take a bunch of stubs from a geographic district, create an article "High Schools in x,x,x" and then replace the individual school articles with redirects - for example, where I live now: "High Schools in Brooklyn, New York, USA?" Can I suggest that notable schools with longer articles be shortened and included in stub-format in the list, with a link from their name to their main article? Suggest a starting location! Hipocrite - «Talk» 13:10, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

My first experience with the school debate was with the Afd for Benjamin Cory Elementary School. You may remember that this discussion actually extended into the talk page. At about that time I started to experiment with essentially the redirect approach, as Hypocrite describes above. The first page I tried was based on a, then, recent Vfd for Charlotte HS. You can see my effort at Charlotte Public Schools. I was trying to create a template approach that could be used to see the hierarchy of the schools as well as make it relatively easy for people transfer the information to a new and better article if someone saw fit to expand one of the schools.

After the Afd for Bartlett High School I again tried this approach at the Elgin Area School District U46.

After the Afd for Chester_County_High_School I created the following Chester County School District article to allow the school article to have some real context.

And finally I experimented with a very long list of schools in hampshire after the Afd Court Moor School although I did not really complete the school district list to my satisfaction in that case.

Early on I was labeled as a deletionist by Silensor and Nicodemus75 but I do not count myself as one. I have always tried to be a constructive voice in this debate. I know these pages are not perfect but i saw them as an experimental compromise. The most important thing for these school articles is that they are not hanging in cyber space with no context. I think this was summed up well by yourself at the recent Afd for Grove School:
 * "That's my point, Kappa. Why spend so much time and energy defending these little bits of low-utility information instead of gathering them together into some coherent form?"

I'd be interested to hear comments. David D. (Talk) 07:40, 3 November 2005 (UTC) <div style = "margin: 0 0 0 0;padding: 5px;border: solid 1px black; background-color: #7F8F4F; font-size: 85%;"> This is done.

Wikiproject Inclusion
No worries. I speedy deleted it under WP:IAR on the basis that the result was absurd (patently non-NPOV project kept because no one knew the vote was on). With this in mind, I've put it up for an actually fair vote. Ambi 10:03, 3 November 2005 (UTC) <div style = "margin: 0 0 0 0;padding: 5px;border: solid 1px black; background-color: #7F8F4F; font-size: 85%;"> This is done.

LOL
The reason I use "a different construction" is because I'm only... ah, "half-black", whatever the hell that means. Going back three generations I am African-Anglo-Scots/Irish-Cherokee-Polish (ethnic Jew). If you saw me, you'd know I wasn't Caucasian, but you'd probably be undecided about the rest. When I typical Southerner see me, then I am black. :) This gives me a nuanced view of "race" (which I attest doesn't exist biologically, but certainly does sociologically.) Best, Xoloz 17:52, 3 November 2005 (UTC) <div style = "margin: 0 0 0 0;padding: 5px;border: solid 1px black; background-color: #7F8F4F; font-size: 85%;"> This is done.

Signatures
Wow that was quite an explaination! I listened to your advice and have updated my preferences. Thanks! Will keep my end of the bargain too. :) =Nichalp   «Talk»=  03:03, 4 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Do you want me to comment on your future RFA chances? =Nichalp   «Talk»=  14:53, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

School AFD voting
You're right, I should be voting my conscience and not casting a vote just to keep the peace. You'll notice I voted to delete Bret Harte Middle School, my own alma mater. :) -- howcheng  [ t  c  w   e  ] 07:39, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Your user page
Hello, I have made a small edit to your user page. I believe it is more accurate now; I hope you agree. Taco Deposit | Talk-o to Taco 13:59, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

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Thanks for the input
I mean that sincerely. Some of your advice I will probably heed, however when it comes to Nicodemous, the only way he'll get any kind of olive branch from me is if he stops this hardline BS. I'm willing to compromise on the school issue, however I've not seen any indication he is at this time. And if an RFC is started against me it's started against me. From what I've seen of that process it's about as useful as the AFD School debates have been, (ie:nothing happens at all except more bickering with no ultimate conclusion one way or the other), so no worries on me keeping clear as I have no interest in that kind of garbage even if I am the topic.Gateman1997 18:40, 4 November 2005 (UTC) <div style = "margin: 0 0 0 0;padding: 5px;border: solid 1px black; background-color: #7F8F4F; font-size: 85%;"> This is done.

Subliminal advertising?

 * Did it work? - brenneman <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(t) <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(c)  01:51, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

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Mediation
Hmm. As for mediation skills in general, I don't know very much about them, but being honest, it did seem like you were going after Tony's head in his RFC. So, perhaps, try not to get too much into a problem like you did before. Remember not to lose your head like you did with the IgnoreAllRules vandal, and the best way to do it is to remember that if you share the same goal as the other user (that is, building an encyclopedia), you eventually can come to agreement. If the things get too heated, just go do something else for an hour or so: go improve an article listed on FAC, go speedy tag junk on Special:Newpages so I can delete it, go sort stubs or something else until your head cools off. Remain civil and don't engage in things that will just tarnish your reputation. That's pretty much all I can say... Tito xd (?!?) 23:06, 6 November 2005 (UTC) <div style = "margin: 0 0 0 0;padding: 5px;border: solid 1px black; background-color: #7F8F4F; font-size: 85%;"> This is done.

Delete and redirect
It seems it's still on WP:GD. SO, OK, my bad, I'll change that. Thanks for pointing it out. (For some reason I thought it wasn't possible - perhaps I was thinking about something like 'merge and delete' not being allowed under GFDL, or maybe I'm just too tired...) :) - ulayiti (talk)  01:32, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
 * You do realise that makes you look like a completely unsalvageable wikiholic, don't you? :p - ulayiti (talk)  01:44, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

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Your RfA, etc.
As for my comments on your RfA, you must know that the timing was awful; I couldn't in good conscience support so soon after, and your interactions with Tony are not the high point of your Wikipedia career. I've looked in on the WP:WEB discussion and the ones you pointed out on your RfA. Could be better, but not too bad; I don't expect every prospective admin to be Mother Teresa, and you do have a talent for finding a contentious mess and jumping into it. I won't hold ancient history against you after some more time has passed if you continue to act reasonably in the future. Mindspillage (spill yours?) 05:32, 7 November 2005 (UTC) <div style = "margin: 0 0 0 0;padding: 5px;border: solid 1px black; background-color: #7F8F4F; font-size: 85%;"> This is done.

Ah,
but have a little faith in me :) Radiant_ &gt;|&lt; <div style = "margin: 0 0 0 0;padding: 5px;border: solid 1px black; background-color: #7F8F4F; font-size: 85%;"> This is done.

RfA
Thanks, Aaron. I didn't even notice I'd deleted that comment. I've restored it now. Cheers, SlimVirgin <sup style="color:purple;">(talk) 02:45, 8 November 2005 (UTC) <div style = "margin: 0 0 0 0;padding: 5px;border: solid 1px black; background-color: #7F8F4F; font-size: 85%;"> This is done.

Articles for deletion/Ice Cream Man (movie)
Hey, none taken. You were right and I'm probably too tired to be editing at the moment. --JiFish(Talk/Contrib) 02:10, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

From my user page
You can now have a look at the 'Lundy Coins' article.I hope that it has been improved. (Aidan Work 05:59, 8 November 2005 (UTC))

Yes, that is good. I've added a few links to tie it in with coins,numismatics, & for the fact that Lundy is a part of the British Commonwealth. (Aidan Work 04:26, 9 November 2005 (UTC))

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Thank you
I just wanted to thank you for your support of my RfA which finally passed! I greatly appreciate it! And I'll remember to appreciate Australian humor better next time! Thanks again Ramallite <sup style="color:DarkBlue;">(talk) 04:37, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Mugglecast
If you want to know about it's popularity or whatever, I have plenty of sources!

Mugglecast is a very popular podcast from Mugglenet.com, which does have it's own Wiki page. Mugglenet gets millions of users a month, from hundreds of countries. It's been on Yahoo a few times, here are the links.  Also, it's been mentioned repeatedly by the CEO of iTunes, for example, it's in their newsletter this week. 

70,000 people are subscribed to Mugglecast on iTunes, and it has always been at LEAST in the top 60 podcasts, usually much higher though. The first month it was on iTunes, it was #1. On it's Frappr, which is a Google map where you can post shout outs and such, Mugglecast has almost 3000 different people:

Also, on the official fanlisting, that just came out 2 days ago, there are already about 100 people and 525 different posts. Mugglecast is also hosting a big Barnes and Nobles Live Podcast in NYC, where it is estimated 700 fans alone will be there.

If you want more proof, I can find it, but I assure you, Mugglecast is VERY VERY popular. :) Please allow the entry. :/ ~Mamatha


 * Replied on your talk page. - brenneman <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(t) <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(c)  05:47, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/MuggleCast
Could you please revisit this discussion, read my comments, and please consider changing your vote? - Mgm|(talk) 10:33, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
 * WP:WEB is a good cause, I'm just ticked off by the speedy delete votes and I was hoping that additional evidence could get it kept. Especially with its parent site having an Alexa rank of 2,520. - Mgm|(talk) 10:50, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I linked to the evidence on the creator's talk page for anyone who wants to look it up. I don't see the use in doing a rewrite to shorten it up so it fits in the AFD page itself. People need to check evidence before voting; will one more click really hurt? - Mgm|(talk) 13:06, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

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FF AfD

 * Ok, I'm not actually objecting to the deletion, just having a bit of a stir. I really did want to point out that there is a precedent if a nomination was very very clear for removing it early, so this isn't IAR.

I plugged on the IAR afterwards to cover immediate objections to the closing.


 * But what was the harm in letting it ride, anyway?

The AfD? Well, sometimes there are pages that are genuinely harmful to The Project, and that was one of them. (If concensus was not clear, of course, I would not have touched it). --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 11:04, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

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talk page
That would be Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_adminship. Radiant_ &gt;|&lt; 13:47, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
 * ahh. thanks. - brenneman <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(t) <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(c)  14:01, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Note to self
Geek porn - brenneman <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(t) <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(c)  14:27, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

re: Articles for deletion/LeveL (webcomic)
I don't know, it would take at least two or three more delete votes to qualify as consensus for delete (assuming there are no more keep votes). AfDs do have a tendency not to get much attention after the first few days, so this is not anything special in that respect. If you want to relist it, go ahead, but I'm probably not going to do that. (Since I've got too much work to do as it is, and I should be doing that instead of wasting my time on Wikipedia...) :) - ulayiti (talk)  16:28, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

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re: my edit summary on your RfA
I rarely vote oppose and felt sorry to do so, but think that the biggest problem with your RfA was timing...perhaps in a few months, it will be more advantageous for you. I am glad that you decided to stick it out here and continue to contribute even after the your failed RfA, and dealings with Mr. Sidaway (even though I take his side in that conflict)...I admire people that stick to their guns and think that even though we all get in petty disagreements, it is important that all get heard.--MONGO 02:46, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

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Selected Users
May I ask what that section means on your user page? R e  dwolf24  (talk) 05:02, 10 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Hmmm, alright then ;-) R  e  dwolf24  (talk) 23:27, 10 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Well that was a rather shocking, yet interesting, explanation. Feel free to add me, it'd be good to have a guardian angel. I just found it strange to have 6 users on someone's user page with slashes inbetween them, and the link was to their contribs rather than their user page. And I knew you aren't friends with specifically at least one of them, so I knew it wasn't some wikifriends thing; yet all the users are recognizable admins, so I was really just curious. Cheers, R  e  dwolf24  (talk) 00:31, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
 * So ''there' is where you hide the black book... interesting. I would have thought you had it here. Tito xd (?!?) 00:41, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Ah, one thing you haven't explained. Why do you have slashes between users? I can understand one pair, but not the other two. R  e  dwolf24  (talk) 01:17, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

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Re: Articles for deletion/The Diary
I disregarded all votes from anonymous users. After that action, the result of the debate was eight for deletion and two for inclusion. However, majority votes are not binding, according to What Wikipedia is not, and the deletion policy clearly states "when in doubt, don't delete", and I am in doubt about this article.

If you wish, you may ask another administrator what (s)he thinks about this article, and (s)he can act accordingly.

Denelson83 07:03, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
 * In the case of Fisker, the original nominator changed his/her mind about deleting the article, and for Naming Substituted Benzene Isomers, a redirect seemed more appropriate to me. Denelson83 07:07, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I'll let them know. Denelson83 07:11, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
 * You know what, my original sense of doubt about deleting this article came from the sheer length of the debate. I'm not usually one to read through a long debate, because such a thing bores me quite a bit.  I will stick to short deletion debates from here on out. Denelson83 07:48, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

Hi Aaron, thanks for following up on this. I went offline after I posted, and when I returned you had reached a satisfactory conclusion with Denelson. Very kind of you. Regards encephalon  00:53, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

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Jerk
Hi Aaron. Don't take it too personally when somebody calls you a "jerk". It says a lot more about the name-caller than the name-callee. Sjakkalle (Check!)  09:04, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

This is done.

Fine, something to say
Since you're begging for it. As per, you're right - I DO think you are a "deletionist vandal" among other things. My earlier attempt to reconcile with you after your disgusting and inherently racist use of the term "nigger" in the context of saying "even they [them niggers] call each other that" was patently ignored with no response on your page or on mine. My apologies on that occasion were not replied to, and my declaration that my use of the term "deletionist" is in no way intended as personal insult or attack went unanswered, and in fact you have since insisted on several occasions that my use of the term is a personal attack, including your removal of my comments including the term "deletionist" and even the phrase "those who routinely nominate and/or vote to delete" (which is just a statement of identification of behavior of certain editors and I am baffled at how that could be construed as a personal attack). Your ignoring of my attempt to mend the fence I see as typical of your behavior in general, which had included a block request against me for calling you a "deletionist". I see a continuation of this sort of nonsense in many of your actions including the most recent and shameful incident of your vandalism, motivated by your clear hatred for Tony and his positions.

Now the current debate where you pontificate from on high as some well-read and researched editor on the history of consensus on school articles, from a clearly partisan pro-deletion perspective. I respect the fact that you may have a different philosophical position than I do on schools. What I do not respect are many of your comments and tactics. I am frankly sick and tired of you constantly insisting that you aren't a partisan, that you don't favour the deletion of school stubs and "non-notable" school articles defacto, when you clearly are every bit as much a partisan as I am. The constant self-righteous, holier-than-thou approach to school debating is offensive in the extreme, particularly when it is peppered with false statements to buttress your position. If I went around, claiming there clear, majority consensus keep on ALL elementary schools, you (and others) would rightly call me on it and be outraged that I was fraudulently trying to convince people of falsehoods. If I came back and claimed, "Oh that's how it was months ago" you would in all likelihood be rightly suspicious of my claims considering my history of participation in the debate or at least suggest that I get my shit in order when making claims and make sure they are backed up by the evidence - using a couple of selective AfD results on the fly, obviously wouldn't cut it.

Based on the history of interaction, I am not sure how we can reconcile at this stage, because you don't respect anything I say, and I essentially consider you to be a bad faith contributor to many discussions on WP, admittedly backed by offense taken at your latently racist remark. (Just to be totally clear, it is not the word "NIGGER" that I am so offended by, it is the phrase "even they call each other that" stating by implication that "they" are the "niggers" in question). If you want to debate and even bandwagon for school deletion - fine. But I do not think false claims and the whole self-righteous act when it comes to AfD that "you are all partisans and I am not" is a bunch of condescending, insulting tripe that is intended to pander to certain elements of the WP community so your next go at adminship actually has something better than a snowball's chance in hell. To top it off, you make even more galling statements that "[Nicodemus] has done worse" than calling people jerks. When it is you who have insulted me (and others) with your disgusting use of a racial epithet while insisting "oh, but it was sarcasm" and "Oh I am not a racist". I'm sure you'll tell me next how you "even have some black friends" or some other nonsense.

As far as I'm concerned, the ball is in your court to do something more substantive than just offer a string of glib apologies everytime you do something offensive.--Nicodemus75 09:48, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

This is done.

Mark Beech
I looked at WP:CSD, WP:BIO, and WP:DVAIN. "Senior Resident Archaeologist" is not a claim to notability. And the polite thing to do would have been to complete an AfD, don't you think? - brenneman <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(t) <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(c)  13:40, 9 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I think that the claim of notability was valid enough to make the article not a speedy. I often do list articles at AFD when I remove the speedy tag, but since I did not do so in this case since I was not 100% sure that the article should be deleted; I don't want to be the nominator on AFD unless I feel really sure the article should be deleted. You can of course list it at AFD yourself, as you have done. Thue | talk 17:16, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

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Military of France
Um, basically, no. But I generally treat all mass-removals of text by an IP without an edit-summary as blatant vandalism, to save time. I have reverted myself. Thanks for catching it... [[Sam Korn ]] 18:18, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

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Grrrrr
I guess he's conserving his "r"'s. User:Zoe|(talk) 02:46, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

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WP:PAIN
Good idea. Thank you for creating it. ;-) SlimVirgin <sup style="color:purple;">(talk) 03:30, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Barnstar
Barnstar for you on your user page, Aaron, for creating WP:PAIN. Thank you for doing this! There's a horrible personal-attack culture around here (from some users) with admins often unwilling to do anything about it, perhaps in case they become the focus of the attacks too, so I'm hopeful your idea will make things easier for those on the receiving end. Feel free to move the barnstar anywhere you fancy. Cheers, SlimVirgin <sup style="color:purple;">(talk) 06:45, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

"Once we've licked that, we begin to work on civility. Ok, we may have to start with me, but I can live with that." LOL!! You always make me laugh, Aaron. I could block you briefly pour encourager les autres, but I don't think I can give the same person a barnstar then block him within ten minutes. ;-D SlimVirgin <sup style="color:purple;">(talk) 06:57, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

My RfA
G'day Aaron. I have answered the questions that you posted on my RfA. They were quite good questions and I hope that I have answered them to your satisfaction. If you have any further questions or would like any clarification I'm only to happy to answer them. I hope that I can secure your vote. Cheers -- Ianblair23 (talk) 10:50, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Vowel play?
Indeed. This site requires consonant vigilance by Men of Letters. (Appy polly loggies to Norm Crosby). Wahkeenah 14:41, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

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And speaking of apologies
You could append the following to your apology at top of page, paraphrasing an old joke: "And if I continue to feel guilty, I will repair the other sites I have vandalised." >:) Wahkeenah 14:44, 11 November 2005 (UTC) <div style = "margin: 0 0 0 0;padding: 5px;border: solid 1px black; background-color: #7F8F4F; font-size: 85%;"> This is done.

AFD
I'm sorry I didn't know one had to add a note on the talk page of the article in question. I really don't participate in AFDs that much. As for the comments, I'm only free over the weekends, so please excuse the delay. Regards, =Nichalp   «Talk»=  05:53, 12 November 2005 (UTC) <div style = "margin: 0 0 0 0;padding: 5px;border: solid 1px black; background-color: #7F8F4F; font-size: 85%;"> This is done.

RFA
Forgive me for the delay, I hardly get anytime during the week and I thank you for your patience. I've gone through your RFA and the reasons for the oppose vote.

I do think that you need some more time (at least 45 days) before your next bid. I'd noticed that you had some problems being civil. If you dont repeat it over the next few weeks, you're less likely to get opposed. Public memory is notoriously short, and if there are no behavioural related issues, your past misdeeds will be forgiven. Also try and make up with those who strongly opposed your RFA. Collaborate with them, try and find a common ground. Also if you make an error, its nice if you could apologise right at the start to avoid it snowballing unnecessarily.

Adminship is a position of trust. The community will vote for you if you are trustworthy. You'd have to build up on your reputation from now on. Start by participating on the Village Pump and RFA talk pages. A daily visit to AFD, IFD and CFD will help. You could also help out in RC-patrol, though vandalism can also be fought via watchlists.

I've also read that you are a good editor. The article you provided didn't allow me to evaluate it. Why don't you try and get an article featured. Getting an article featured is not easy and is appreciated by the community. Those who do get an article featured usually have a smoother RFA nom. FAC is a great leveller, it is a stressful process, but if you can come out on top, there's nothing like it.

I know the above is short, but I hope you consider the above points. Regards, =Nichalp   «Talk»=  09:54, 13 November 2005 (UTC)


 * templates substituted by a bot as per Template substitution Pegasusbot 07:54, 26 March 2006 (UTC)