User talk:Abcmaxx/Archives/2014

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Your submission at Articles for creation: Bayrampaşaspor (January 6)
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newspaper articles about Turkish teams
Hello Abcmaxx, saw your message to Hasteur, and found you a couple sources to beef up your article, plus a list of places you can use to find more, with any luck. Please see here:


 * User_talk:Hasteur

Hope this helps, and thanks for improving wikipedia. p.s. See WP:GNG and WP:RS for the usual rulz, which are summarized in WP:42 decently well; pretty much any professional-media-sources are usable, they don't have to be English-language-sources. Televised matches, newspaper stories, magazines, that sort of thing. You can ask for help at WP:TEAHOUSE, they should be able to direct you to somebody that knows the local lingo, to help improve your machine-translation, and also to help seek & verify some sources. And of course, feel free to leave a message on my talkpage, if you want to gab about anything. See you around. 74.192.84.101 (talk) 04:02, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for your help, I've replied on the original point of query though to keep it all in one place. User_talk:Hasteur

Your submission at Articles for creation: Abcmaxx/Bayrampaşaspor (January 16)
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Your submission at Articles for creation: Asteras Exarchion (March 1)
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Your submission at AfC Asteras Exarchion was accepted
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May 2014
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 * * SV Austria Salzburg  - The club was formed in 2005, by some of the supporters of the original SV (Austria) Salzburg

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Football Rivalries
The onus is on people adding information to ensure it is sourced per WP:V and WP:N. I will be looking to return to my edits if you have re-added unreferenced material or deleted CN tags. I would request you consider a number of the changes you made and potentially self-revert, and/or look to add significant references ASAP. Eldumpo (talk) 19:54, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

Well done you managed to ignore everything I said. If you're just so intent on deleting information why become a Wikipedia editor if you contribute nothing but delete other people's inputAbcmaxx (talk) 22:18, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

Follow up - I added about a hundred or so references in a few minutes, it is that easy it actually took me less time than reverting your destruction. Eldumpo I would suggest you take example in the future.Abcmaxx (talk) 23:14, 14 June 2014 (UTC)


 * I have added a significant number of references to that page over time. Hopefully the references you have added are suitable/reliable, and that you have learned that any material added should be sourced, and if it is not it will be subject to deletion. I will aim to have another look at the page in due course, but potentially have some concerns over the size of the article. Eldumpo (talk) 08:30, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

The pages I have added are newspaper articles or supporter sites, and the reason it was so easy to find them they were real well-known rivalries. You're still ignoring everything I'm saying and are of no help at all. Rather than looking to delete, how about looking for some sources yourself to make the article more comprehensive Eldumpo? This article can't be too long, it's a list. Abcmaxx (talk) 11:05, 15 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Newspapers will generally be regarded as reliable, but club sites, fan sites, blog posts etc are not reliable as sources. I'm not ignoring your comments, I have addressed them i.e. I have added sources in the past, there is a need to always follow WP:V, down to the author to add references at the time. Eldumpo (talk) 14:52, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for treating me like an idiot, I know what sources are reliable thank you. Supporter sites are not the same as fan sites, anyone who knows about supporter culture will know that supporter sites are merely an internet form of supporter magazines and are usually a great source for information that cannot be found anywhere else, as any clued up real fan will know rivalries are kept out of media spotlight as much as possible for obvious reasons. Plus most of these rivalries are so well known it's a wonder how they have not been listed before. Abcmaxx (talk) 17:34, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

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Eugenio Cruz Vargas
Friend Abcmaxx

Please can you see additional citations in this article []

Thanks I wait your answer

Thank You

--Historiador1923 (talk) 13:13, 15 July 2014 (UTC) --Historiador1923 (talk) 19:23, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

I think it's best to ask someone else who is clued up with references and the topic. I'm mainly just a sports guy and I add stuff, I don't really review articles or their sources, I stumbled on the deletion debate on this article by accident and added my two cents in but that's about it. Sorry I can't be of more help but it would not be beneficial to claim otherwise Abcmaxx (talk) 20:09, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

Friend Abcmaxx

Thanks a lot and regards Your new friend

--Historiador1923 (talk) 18:39, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

August 2014
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 * = template mess, requires expansion, inadequate summary, incomplete sections, needs new talk page separate from Legia (football) talk page}}

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Article about RB Leipzig and section about fan protests against Red Bull
Hello

Very good edit, but I think too much weight is put on the individual supporter groups that initiated the protest. Perhaps that part of the section could be summarized a little bit?

Best regards

EriFr (talk) 13:50, 24 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Btw, I do not mean to be negative. I will, myself, work on expanding the article by writing more about the criticism and protests against RB Leipzig and Red Bull. The German article is much more informative regarding this. EriFr (talk) 13:56, 24 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Perhaps but maybe if the section is expanded enough that emphasis will diminish? As this is an ongoing and growing movement I was editing with the view that the section will be expanded and probably gain in importance as time goes on, so I didn't want to summarise it quite so concisely. I think it's noteworthy which groups started it, firstly it gives credit where it's due, secondly if I were to put just Braunschweig for example, it wouldn't really be correct as most groups in that city joined much later on and therefore would be given credit for initiating it, whereas the Cattiva Brunsviga are the ones who initiated it. Abcmaxx (talk) 14:09, 24 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Newspapers in Sweden have been writing a lot about Red Bull during the last weeks (because of the UEFA Champions League Play Off-match between Red Bull Salzburg and Malmö FF) and this morning there was an entire article about "Nein Zu RB" in one of the largest newspapers. EriFr (talk) 07:07, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

Talkback - Wimbledon

 * Thanks for adding your list of challenges. I agree with most of them. Clifton I an has fixed the gross ones, If I gat time I'll fix some more. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 19:45, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

Bias Opinion
Don't you think Blake Gripling for whatever reason is being biased on some articles Chveawful (talk) 02:58, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

Is it ok for me to start a more concise article on the Sindikato if blake does succeed in deleting it,for me its injustice to hush up the fact that a group well organized crime syndicates operates unimpeded in the Philippines i want to expose this if so can my article be safe from deletion whats the guidelines in particular is to be followed,i dont want my article to be deleted needlessly Chveawful (talk)  — Preceding undated comment added 11:59, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

Add whatever you think necessary, you'll need a lot of good references though. I mean there should be an article on the Filipino underworld crime syndicates, just like there is on the Azeri mafia or any other countries. However my knowledge in this field is pretty limited, I stumbled upon the article by accident, I just think that claims of an elaborate hoax are bit far-fetched. I don't want to get into any feuds though, I have no idea who Blake Gripling is and I don't really want to especially the fact it is the mafia we're talking about :D Abcmaxx (talk) 10:54, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

i think his overzealous on this particular matter either he doesn't want to accept the fact that there's such a thing as a sindikato,like the triad or he want to cover it up is there some higher ups i can go to, his acting like a dictator is he really that highly placeed that he can single handedly and arbitrarily delete articles,he has put delete status on several articles related to the Sindikato,i really think his trying to cover it up and repressed the true facts and wrongly accusing someone of sock puppetry his seem dangerous to Wikipedia for me Chveawful (talk — Preceding undated comment added 17:33, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

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September 2014
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Southern Rhodesia / Rhodesia topics navbox
Thanks for moving this. I agree that locating the template at "Southern Rhodesia topics" rather than "Rhodesia topics" is clearer, though "Rhodesia topics" was not entirely incorrect. An unqualified reference to "Rhodesia" almost always means the southern territory unless otherwise specified, and the government used the name officially from 1964 (there being no Northern Rhodesia anymore after it became Zambia, it seemed silly to go on calling itself "Southern"). Anyway, I have altered the title at the top of the box to read "Southern Rhodesia / Rhodesia" to cater for the fact that both names were used. This also allows us to tidily deal with any problems regarding the legal name of the country between 1964 and 1979 (the UK didn't recognise the name change and continued referring to "Southern Rhodesia" in official correspondence). I have changed the "country name" in the template code back to Rhodesia so the links to categories, portals and so on are back in sync, but this doesn't show up to readers so I think it's okay. I hope this is all right with you. Cheers and thanks again, keep well. —  Cliftonian   (talk)  20:44, 20 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Yes of course, thank you, that probably deals with the complex naming problems, and also my fears of screwing up codes and links across the Wikipedia. For me Rhodesia always meant to be the undefined region of that part of Africa with no specific borders, encompassing Zambia/Zimbabwe, as that's what the Europeans called the region when they first arrived, and the two countries do share quite a bit of history together under the name Rhodesia. However for the purposes of the box, I did consider adding "Northern Rhodesia" and Zambia's history to it, but I decided against it, as a very impractical and lengthy solution though, although I would have no complaints against somehow encompassing the "Northern Rhodesia" into it and reverting my changes. Abcmaxx (talk) 23:56, 20 October 2014 (UTC)


 * The borders weren't "undefined", they were the same borders Zim and Zambia have now. They do share much history, yes, but they were always separate nevertheless from the beginning, even under Company rule. After Company rule Southern Rhodesia was a self-governing colony and Northern Rhodesia was a protectorate governed directly from London—a very different proposition. In my opinion merging information on the two Rhodesias is just confusing, not to mention somewhat misleading, and better avoided where possible. I think a better solution is for a separate "Northern Rhodesia" box to emerge if it proves necessary. Since we have a "Zambia" box too I'm not sure we need one—this goes for the Southern Rhodesia box too, incidentally, as we also have a Zimbabwe box with a very much similar scope. —  Cliftonian   (talk)  07:35, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

FC Coburg
Could you please enlighten me why you moved DVV Coburg to FC Coburg? The new club is a completely seperate entity and the old club defunct. If you look at the new club's website it states its formation date as 8 September 2011, almost a year before DVV was dissolved. The only connection between the two is that it took over the football teams from the old club at the end of the 2011-12 season. Moving the article on the old club to the new clubs name is incorrect. Calistemon (talk) 01:39, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

FC Coburg is a phoneix club of DVV Coburg which in turn is the successor of another club which is the predecessor of VfB Coburg. DVV was legally dissolved 2012, but in 2011 all the players, league position and everything else other than name was transferred and is exactly the same. On the website it clearly states that it is essentially DVV Coburg's successor. But your logic this article could be split into 4 stubs as they reformed so many times under so many names, in fact maybe about 5% of the entire article is about DVV. It is the same club, under a new legal entity. I see no point in creating 4 stubs as it'll be an unnecessary fork, you wouldn't split A.C.R. Messina into 6 articles, why split this one, especially for an amateur club.Abcmaxx (talk) 01:47, 22 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Your logic is incorrect. The previous name changes resulted from mergers. The previous clubs were not dissolved. DVV was disolved because it was insolvent, owing the tax department € 120.000. A new club was formed before the old club was disolved to be able to eventually take over the football teams of the old one. The new club had to be a new entity to avoid having to take liability of the old clubs depth. The two clubs are legally completely different entities for this reason and have to be. Your link to Phoenix club is very informative in that way, it shows that in the same situation Chester City F.C. and its successor Chester F.C. are separate articles, as they should be . Calistemon (talk) 02:37, 22 October 2014 (UTC)
 * I fail to see how legal entity makes a difference. Many Italian clubs (such as the aforementioned Messina) reformed and were re-created under a new legal entity, but they are essentially the same club. Had the legal system been different, FC Coburg would've still been called DVV, it has the same players, fans, stadium, structure etc. All the changes were to avoid debt and nothing else, there is clear causation. From a practical point of view, I fail to see the point of having two articles, which to intense and purposes would be the same, other than one would be defunct and the other would not. It's a dillemma in the Gwangju Sangmu FC and Sangju Sangmu FC articles. They are identical and it's confusing. Abcmaxx (talk) 11:38, 22 October 2014 (UTC)
 * It's an assumption to say that it is the same club. The two clubs don't even share the same name and, as stated above, the new club existed almost a year before the old one went out of buisness. In this year of overlap DVV still operated normally with all teams under its name. As to having two articles, FC has not achieved any notability and does not require an article at this stage, it can stay a Redlink. The German Wikipedia, from which the FC Coburg website has copied its history content from currently also takes this approach. There the article sits at DVV while FC Coburg is a Redlink. To me, the main indication whether a club is a direct continuation or not is its foundation date. If the club was formed in a merger it would state the oldest verifiable date as its origin, the 1907 date of VfB Coburg. It does not, it's foundation year is stated as 2011, it doesn't make a claim to the pre-2011 history. Calistemon (talk) 21:18, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

These are indeed separate clubs. You can mention at the DVV Coburg article that a phoenix club has been created, but the article should not be over-writen. GiantSnowman 09:34, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

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Relocation of Wimbledon to MK - "Parallels in England"
Conversation moved to Talk:Relocation of Wimbledon F.C. to Milton Keynes at its conclusion —  Cliftonian   (talk)  12:12, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Formatting references
Please take a look at my edit summary at - you can quickly improve your articles through this nice too, too! --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 06:40, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

White and red as away colours
Hi Abcmaxx, how are you? I have tidied up the prose in the precursors section and I agree it works well this way, so cheers. I'm a little bemused by your stance on the away kits in the "AFC Wimbledon and MK Dons identities compared" section; we have added the sentence "Both white and red had been used by Wimbledon F.C. as away colours over the previous two decades." so I'm not sure why it is necessary to add more earlier in the paragraph on which colour was specifically on which kit and when—particularly if we lack sourcing for it. Do you think it is really necessary to differentiate here between second and third kits? At the end of the day they're both away kits. —  Cliftonian   (talk)  14:40, 27 November 2014 (UTC)


 * I didn't see the sentence "Both white and red had been used by Wimbledon F.C. as away colours over the previous two decades." I might've missed it, probably because of the long references in the editing code, but as long as that's there it's fine. The only reason I added in the way I did because somewhere along the way (I can't remember if it was you or someone else) in the discussion someone wanted to highlight red wasn't always WFC away kit for some reason. My actual concern was at very first the section sounded a little like "AFC replicated WFC, as opposed to MKD who completely erased all traces of its heritage" Abcmaxx (talk) 14:52, 27 November 2014 (UTC)


 * I mentioned something along these lines in the discussion—that it is somewhat misleading to describe red as Wimbledon F.C.'s unqualified "away kit" when they had had away kits in other colours over the years and never had an official "away" colour—but I never, so far as I remember, said anything about highlighting in the article that it wasn't always the away kit. Anyway this isn't really relevant. The passage now reads like this (I'll copy-and-paste here to save you time):


 * "The blue and yellow home colours that Wimbledon F.C. players had worn were concurrently replaced by white shirts, shorts and socks, with black, red and gold as accent colours; the away outfit comprised red shirts, shorts and socks. Both white and red had been used by Wimbledon F.C. as away colours over the previous two decades. The club badge became a rendering of the letters "MK", with the "K" positioned below the "M", rotated 90° anti-clockwise and defaced with the year "MMIV" (2004)."


 * I hope this is okay and I'm sorry if there has been any misunderstanding. Cheers —  Cliftonian   (talk)  15:11, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

I agree with everything, I think the discussion process was so long and no-one wanted an edit war a minor thing like this bound to happen anyway. As it is sounds good to me, and thank you for tidying the article :) Abcmaxx (talk) 16:52, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

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Happy New Year
Happy New Year Abcmaxx, and a belated Merry Christmas. Have a great 2015! :) —  Cliftonian   (talk)  18:05, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Thanks you very much, and a happy New Year and Xmas to you tooAbcmaxx (talk) 18:07, 31 December 2014 (UTC)