User talk:Abhayesports/Archive

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Happy editing! -- Toddy1 (talk) 06:00, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Hello. Thankyou for the welcome. I am already familiar with the wiki markup language or wiki text. It would be really helpful if you send me few links to the following- 1. Userfication-(Zeyan Shafiq's article was deleted so they have been suggested over email to apply for userfication, So I'll be doing it on thier behalf).

2. The Relevant policies for notability guidelines on wikipedia.

3. Any other important wikipedia policy which might be related and important to Stalwart Esports and Zeyan Shafiq.

Warm regards Abhayesports (talk) 16:17, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

COI
As someone with a conflict of interest, please refrain from editing Stalwart Esports and anything related to it - you should instead request changes via the talk page as per WP:COI. CUPIDICAE💕 15:57, 5 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Hello.
 * I have read this policy.
 * It is indeed written that "you are strongly discouraged from editing affected articles directly". But it is not prohibited.
 * Also i have not made any edits, someone had removed the team roster details and I've added them back. And now you have removed it again, Could you explain? Abhayesports (talk) 16:19, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
 * It isn't prohibited but given the extensive paid and COI editing that resulted in more than 3 editors being blocked, you'd be better off not editing it directly and going through the normal way that every other COI editor does. CUPIDICAE💕  16:24, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

You might read it again, i have not added anything. I have just reverted when someone removed it. And now since you have removed it. I'd request you to state the reason for the removal? because roster is an important part of an sports/esports team. How could it be removed? Abhayesports (talk) 16:27, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
 * First, it was explained by the original editor who removed it. Read the summary. And they are right, it isn't verifiable and it's unsourced. Which is a great example of why you shouldn't be editing the article, especially considering you had the audacity to accuse a long term good faith editor of vandalism.  CUPIDICAE💕  16:29, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Yes, i added a source as well and you've removed it as well. Aight, I'll post it to the talk page. Considering the long vandalism history of this page, it's hard to differentiate in between good or bad editors, if it was with a good faith, my apologies, but I'd surely question you for vandalism for the revert you made even after i had added the source. So my question remains the same, why did you remove it even after the sources were added? Abhayesports (talk) 16:34, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Because sportskeeda isn't a reliable source. CUPIDICAE💕  16:39, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Then this might be very interesting to see Team SoloMid, if sportskeeda isn't a reliable source, how come tsm.gg(their own website is one)? I read earlier that for roster and other details you could add secondary sources. Abhayesports (talk) 16:45, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I would also point out, even apart from the sourcing question that Praxidicae is absolutely right to point out here, that the source you added only says this team was picked up for PMCO Pakistan 2021--which is now over as best I can tell. So even if that source were better, I would still be unsure that this is actually the roster. That's why I added the comment about going out of date very quickly. Esports pages where the rosters are listed tend to be more established games/organizations where the roster itself generates more coverage, which is not what I've seen based on following the Stalwart page for a while. TSM is a adequate source for news about it's own team--I don't see that for Stalwart. Alyo  (chat·edits) 16:47, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Check the current roster section on Team SoloMid page. Abhayesports (talk) 16:46, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Abhayesports please indent your replies by adding a colon ":" before each reply, or two colons below the comment with one colon, etc. This makes it a lot easier to follow the discussion. Alyo  (chat·edits) 16:49, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Hello, As far as the roster is concerned. They played the recent PMCO for us and now we're continuing with them for upcoming majors (PMPL and Pakistan Campus Championship), you removed the Freestyle lineup as well which was correct because they were disbanded. But this lineup is current and active. Abhayesports (talk) 16:52, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
 * But the source doesn't say that. You may know that, assuming you work for Stalwart. But how am I, a wikipedia editor on the other side of the world, supposed to verify that? Our policies say I should be able to verify that information with reliable sources, and I can't do that here. Alyo  (chat·edits) 16:54, 5 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Indeed you're correct, if you happen to know liquipedia, our roster can be verified at liquipedia. Check for the roster under our name for the PMPL Majors. Liquipedia PMPL S3
 * Also since you've mentioned you've been following us so you can confirm from their as well. Abhayesports (talk) 17:11, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
 * As explains below, Liquipedia is not a reliable source as far as Wikipedia is concerned--it's a wiki that anyone can edit. You have to understand that there's a difference between what fans use and what Wikipedia uses. I might check Liquipedia in my own spare time for a tournament result, but I would never add it as a source to Wikipedia. Reliable sources are those with editorial oversight and fact-checking, and neither of these apply to wikis.  Alyo  (chat·edits) 18:13, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

I'd suggest you to join it as well, you look to have knowledge of esports and I'm sure you'd be a good editor there as well and I'd be happy to welcome you there and you'll notice that we have the same guidelines, if any normal editor edits something we review those edits otherwise we revert them. And i was just suggesting liquipedia for you to confirm the roster because as far as primary source is concerned i guess we can not consider tsm.gg as a verified source for Team SoloMid's Current rosters and decline sportskeeda/liquipedia for verification of stalwarts rosters. I hope i am making some sense. Abhayesports (talk) 18:31, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Managing a conflict of interest
Hello, Abhayesports. We welcome your contributions, but if you have an external relationship with the people, places or things you have written about on Wikipedia, you may have a conflict of interest (COI). Editors with a conflict of interest may be unduly influenced by their connection to the topic. See the conflict of interest guideline and FAQ for organizations for more information. We ask that you:


 * avoid editing or creating articles about yourself, your family, friends, colleagues, company, organization or competitors;
 * propose changes on the talk pages of affected articles (you can use the request edit template);
 * disclose your conflict of interest when discussing affected articles (see Conflict of interest);
 * avoid linking to your organization's website in other articles (see WP:Spam);
 * do your best to comply with Wikipedia's content policies.

In addition, you are required by the Wikimedia Foundation's terms of use to disclose your employer, client, and affiliation with respect to any contribution which forms all or part of work for which you receive, or expect to receive, compensation. See Paid-contribution disclosure.

Also, editing for the purpose of advertising, publicising, or promoting anyone or anything is not permitted. Thank you. Firestar464 (talk) 05:21, 6 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Hello again . I have already received a COI notice above haha, i have already read all of them. Rest assured I won't be editing or violating any 'pedia policy until i read all of them completely. Also as far as creating or editing of articles is mentioned, I'll be working on Mr.Shafiq's article with duly following wikipedia's policies because it was deleted recently and this was suggested to them via email that they could ask any editor to do the userfication of the article and work on it. So i was assigned to do the same because i have experience of wiki markup language and also whenever time permits i will be contributing to improve esport related articles since most of them are very outdated
 * Warm Regards
 * Abhayesports (talk) 05:32, 6 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I sent this message because it contains all the links you need. Warm regards, Firestar464 (talk) 05:47, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

March 2021
Welcome to Wikipedia. Editors are expected to treat each other with respect and civility. On this encyclopedia project, editors assume good faith while interacting with other editors, which you did not appear to do at User talk:Abhayesports. Here is Wikipedia's welcome page, and it is hoped that you will assume the good faith of other editors and continue to help us improve Wikipedia! ''Cullen could've just been mistaken, as the difference between editors like you and paid editors is very small. Thanks for being understanding.'' Firestar464 (talk) 08:09, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

My bad, i might have misunderstood. Totally accept all their concern's to preserve the integrity of wikipedia's policies. I will try my best to assume good faith from now on. Warm Regards Abhayesports (talk) 08:12, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

Verifiability
Please could you read WP:Verify. If you want to add stuff to articles, you obviously get the information from somewhere - so you should be able cite the sources. -- Toddy1 (talk) 16:36, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

I have read this, could you share which edit are you referring to? Abhayesports (talk) 16:43, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I am not making a complaint about an edit you made.


 * You asked me (above) to help you with policies, etc. I saw that an editor was complaining that you posted content without citing a source.  So I thought that I would help you to understand what you need to do.


 * By the way, there is a policy, WP:USERGENERATED, which says: "Content from websites whose content is largely user-generated is generally unacceptable. Sites with user-generated content include personal websites, personal and group blogs (excluding newspaper and magazine blogs), content farms, Internet forums, social media sites, video and image hosting services, most wikis, and other collaboratively created websites." You said that you had been editing "liquipedia", which suggests that "liquipedia" must have user-generated content and therefore is not a reliable source.


 * I am not going to get into your disputes. But you seem like someone who is making an effort to improve articles, so I am assuming good faith and trying to help you with advice. -- Toddy1 (talk) 17:27, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Oh i thought you're referring to some wrong edit that i made, 2:- The edit i made on stalwart esports i have cited a source with it you can check but it was removed again. 3:- liquipedia has a same system like this wikipedia, indeed anyone can edit it but the content is verified by experienced editors there, i am a editor at liquipedia and we have somehow same verification policies there but for us announcements from organisations work as sources for the roster. I don't see any dispute anywhere. We're just exchanging information and debating i guess. That's what we do over liquipedia as well, i think it shouldn't offend anyone. :) Warm regards. Abhay Abhayesports (talk) 18:25, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Liquipedia is not a reliable source and it should not be used as a reference on Wikipedia. <b style="color:#070">Cullen</b><sup style="color:#707">328  Let's discuss it  00:08, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

Must Read To Understand The Query  Hello. Thanks for being on my talk page. Well i completely understand and know that liquipedia is not a reliable or secondary source as per mentioned in WP:RS. Since it's becoming very messy out here, I'd summarise my query in few points:- 1. Stalwart Esports is an esport organisation and it had the current pubgm roster mentioned but without a reliable source (It had a sportskeeda ref which isn't considered as a secondary or reliable source by Wikipedia). 2. The Roster was removed from the page by few editors stating that it doesn't have reliable sources. 3. I checked Team SoloMid and Fnatic (both esport organisations so the same category) and few other esport org's and found that they either don't have any citations for the roster and in the case of TSM they have (tsm.gg - Their own website which can be considered as primary source) as the reference for the roster. 4. So my question was to re-add the roster which was removed from stalwart's page even when it had better reference ( not reliable as per wiki but atleast published on a news article and not stalwart's website) The roster can be read and verified here:-(https://www.sportskeeda.com/amp/esports/news-indian-pubg-mobile-team-stalwart-esports-teams-pakistan-based-team-flex-esports-pmco-pakistan-2021-spring) 5. That's where we discussed if liquipedia can be used to verify the roster, i didn't say that it should be used as a secondary source to support any statement that might cause any violation of policies.

Hope this clarifies and makes my query easy to understand. Things tend to become very messy so quickly here on wpedia. I'm trying to keep it simple for anyone who wants to understand :). Warm Regards Abhayesports (talk) 03:34, 6 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Shortcomings in other articles are no justification for introducing poor quality content into the articles that interest you. That argument simply does not fly. Instead, uninvolved editors should clean up those other articles, and we work on that 24/7/365. You are a paid editor with a glaring conflict of interest. You should not be editing this article at all. You should defer to experienced uninvolved editors who have no COI. To make things clear, you will not be allowed to add anything at all to Wikipedia that is not referenced to highly reliable sources. New amateur editors may get a bit of leniency. Not you. You are a paid editor and you are expected to edit in 100% compliance with all Wikipedia policies and guidelines with every single edit you make. It is your paid job, after all. <b style="color:#070">Cullen</b><sup style="color:#707">328  Let's discuss it  06:54, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

you've mentioned few points which are not true. I am not paid to edit. I was asked to be here because of my experience with liquipedia. I am currently reading all wikipedia policies and i will definitely edit in 100% compliance with all wikipedia policies and that's why I've been posting around teahouse help desk regarding the relevant documents. Also i made just 1 edit to Stalwart Esports article which was reverted and i followed the wikipedia's policy of posting the request via talk page. Your message sounded very rude. You could've checked my contribution history before labelling me with false allegations. If it was my paid job I would've been creating or editing other articles as well for money. I am not sure what's the reason for this hate but I'm ready to answer any questions you have. Thank you. Abhayesports (talk) 07:55, 6 March 2021 (UTC)
 * On your own user page, you state "By profession, I am a content writer at Stalwart Esports." Therefore, you are a paid editor with a glaring financial conflict of interest. Period. End of story. I have been an active Wikipedia editor since 2009. As an administrator, I have blocked thousands of accounts for promotional editing and COI. I know the policies and guidelines very well. There is no hate. Only enforcement. I am not being rude and I am not making false accusations. I am spending my unpaid volunteer time trying to explain to you how Wikipedia works. You can take my advice, or you can do whatever you want. I recommend against the second course of action. You are editing about topics that very experienced editors have identified as highly problematic, and therefore your edits are subject to scrutiny. Be careful. Thank you for taking my carefully chosen words seriously. <b style="color:#070">Cullen</b><sup style="color:#707">328   Let's discuss it  08:39, 6 March 2021 (UTC)
 * , I understand your concern regarding the policies of wikipedia and you're very correct on that part. But by profession i work as a content writer at stalwart i mean i work in the content creation division and i write content scripts for them.
 * I am an old and active editor at liquipedia(it's an mediawiki based wiki for gaming/esports) and i contribute there as an unpaid volunteer since past 2 years, my employer was suggested by wikipedia volunteer team via email to join wikipedia so that he can keep an eye on the presence of our organisation related articles. So i was asked if i would be interested based on my knowledge of wiki language. I happily agreed but least did i know that it'd be so messed up here. I will certainly note all your points before i do anything and i will try my best to never violate any 'pedia policy.
 * Hope this clears out the confusion.
 * Warm regards
 * Abhayesports (talk) 09:19, 6 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Your work is at Liquipedia is irrelevant. You are an employee of a company editing Wikipedia at the instruction of your employer. That makes you a paid editor. So, here is my direct question to you: Do you agree with my assessment that you are a paid edititor? Yes or no. <b style="color:#070">Cullen</b><sup style="color:#707">328  Let's discuss it  17:18, 6 March 2021 (UTC)
 * ,This is very difficult to prove but yes as per your assessment and valid points i would be definitely called a paid editor here at wikipedia. But if my answer is accepted and trusted I'd like to say that i was not paid by my employer for this task, i was asked because i contribute to liquipedia as well and i happily agreed to contribute to our presence on wikipedia, least i knew that it's very discouraged and prohibited (although reading the COI document doesn't make it look this discouraged, they just ask to disclose it and i did that) here on wikipedia otherwise maybe I'd never have disclosed it haha. Anyways i don't want to argue with you considering your time spent on wikipedia you do have 100x experience then me and i want to peace out here, i agree to all your points and you're absolutely correct, I'll assume this as good faith and follow your suggestions.
 * Warm Regards
 * Abhayesports (talk) 17:30, 6 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Now, use Template:Paid to place the paid editing declaration on your user page, and remove all statements that you are not a paid editor. <b style="color:#070">Cullen</b><sup style="color:#707">328  Let's discuss it  17:52, 6 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Well, i agree to your points and your assessment, not your accusation. I am being honest here and assuming good faith but I'd definitely never place a paid declaration or remove the statement that states my honest reason. Since I've joined I'm being dragged into a lot of things which i am not connected to. I've been honest and following wikipedia's policies and declared my COI but how do i declare something that i am not. Abhayesports (talk) 18:07, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

Please properly indent your posts
Please read WP:INDENT to learn how to properly engage with other users. Both you, and now-blocked editor - the creator of Stalwart Esports - both seem unaware how to reply on talk pages effectively. It's a simple case of starting your reply with one extra colon (which forces a set amount of indenting) than the previous poster used.
 * Like this
 * And this
 * And this
 * And this reply is to the first line, not the second.

By correctly indenting, you ensure you leave your comment in the right place, and avoid leaving other editors to guess who and what you are commenting on. Nick Moyes (talk) 09:11, 6 March 2021 (UTC)


 * I've been indenting my replies correctly. Might be somewhere if i skipped it since I'm replying from a mobile device. Will take note. Abhayesports (talk) 09:45, 6 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Nick Moyes (talk) 20:36, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Smiley.svg Please read Help:Edit summary. Sorry, there is a lot for you to learn. -- Toddy1 (talk) 21:30, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Hi, Yes i've been through these documents and policies and i'm still learning about all relevant policies, Might take some time before i'm familiar with it. thanks for the input and suggestions. Warm Regards.Abhayesports (talk) 05:21, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

March 2021
I accidentally blocked you for a minute. It was an error, and I apologize. The block was intended for another editor. <b style="color:#070">Cullen</b><sup style="color:#707">328  Let's discuss it  19:01, 6 March 2021 (UTC)
 * , It's alright. No worries. Abhayesports (talk) 05:54, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Please could you remove the following words from your post at Talk:Stalwart Esports:
 * "I am assuming good faith here and i hope you're editing in good faith as well unlike the other bad faith editors who have been on a crusade against Zeyan and Stalwart and have been harming TheAafi in the same context."

Article talk pages are for discussing content, not for discussing an editor's conduct.

There are phrases in English that mean exactly the opposite of their literal meaning: I seriously wonder whether "assume good faith" is one of those phrases. Or maybe it is a reference to Faith as played by Eliza Dushku. -- Toddy1 (talk) 12:59, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
 * "At your earliest convenience" means do it immediately (I once got in trouble because I did not understand that)
 * "With the greatest respect" means you are an idiot and have completely misunderstood.
 * , Done, Toddy. Thanks for letting me know. I Wrote this just because i thought something is suspicious with these tag vandalism as i informed you earlier on your talk page. my apologies if it sounded rude or against wikipedia's policies. Abhayesports (talk) 13:04, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
 * , Is there anything else that is against the policies or ethics? please let me know. Also did you check my message on your Talk page? Abhayesports (talk) 13:06, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Your post reads much better now that you have edited it. -- Toddy1 (talk) 13:12, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

WikiProject India's Collaborations of the month invites you
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 11:10, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

Your sig
Please reduce the font size of your sig to normal size. Beyond My Ken (talk) 14:48, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
 * , hi thanks for letting me know. Is it fine now. Warm Regards--- Abhay Esports Talk To Me  17:00, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Beyond My Ken (talk) 21:47, 10 April 2021 (UTC)