User talk:Abraham, B.S./Archive 3

Nominations for the Military history WikiProject coordinator election
The Military history WikiProject coordinator selection process is starting. We are aiming to elect nine coordinators to serve for the next six months; if you are interested in running, please sign up here by 23:59 (UTC) on September 14! This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 21:19, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXX (August 2008)
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 22:15, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Arab Crusade leaders
Ciao! Maybe you can help me with my new additions for two notable Turk commanders of the early crusades, Toghtekin and Mawdud. Consider: I'm Italian, and I translated them to English from French... Maybe they'll need some copyedit for language. Thanks and good work. --Attilios (talk) 07:49, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Re Harry Murray
I'd be happy to take a look, although I'm a little busy at the moment and might not get to it soon. All the best, EyeSerene talk 14:37, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Maxwell and Wark
Hi there, I've done both of them. Are you finished with the other articles you were preparing?  YellowMonkey  ( bananabucket ) 08:25, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * You might be better off going straight to ACR and FAC imho.  YellowMonkey  ( bananabucket ) 08:30, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Harry Murray
I've had a look over the article - it looks in pretty good shape. I've made a few tweaks, but nothing major. To be honest, after Roger and Blnguyen had done their stuff, I hadn't expected to find much to do ;) It's an interesting article about a very brave man - all the best at FA. EyeSerene talk 17:16, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Blamey
Regarding this edit, I think the line breaks are a good idea, but why expand the abbreviations? (Once again, the rank is now longer than the person's name - Is it not the person who is of primary interest, not his rank?) Thanks in advance, Pdfpdf (talk) 13:48, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I guess it's a trade-off, isn't it ... Thanks for the reply. Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 23:33, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

John C. Pemberton
Hello there! I see you changed the sub-sections on this page from " ; " to " === === ". In the past I did this as well, but recently I began favoring the " ; " since it doesn't add to the table of contents, which I like to keep quite short, and the heading appears smaller and less in the way to me. I haven't reverted it, as that's not my way, just wanted to let you know why I did it. It's a small matter anyway! Kresock (talk) 15:16, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Wark & Edwards
Hi, no problem with the reviews, I found the articles informative and interesting. I agree that Edwards is the weaker of the two, but I could not fault it too seriously against any of the criteria and think it still passes reasonably comfortably, especially with the clarifications you have made. I do think however, with Edwards especially, that further sourcing and expansion are necessary in order to make the next step and I'm glad to see that you are way ahead of me on that. Regards --Jackyd101 (talk) 06:14, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Are you going to expand it further? I tend to think that it's easier to copyedit all at the end. The article does seem short for someone of his rank.  YellowMonkey  ( bananabucket ) 09:04, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Surprisingly enough, there actually isn't a great amount of information available on him. However, I do actually intend to expand it further; I have just purchased a copy of his biography on eBay and it should arrive sometime next week. With this as a resource, I should be able to expand it quite a bit further. If you are still willing to copyedit the article, then I will contact you once I have expanded it further, if that's alright with you? Thanks, Abraham, B.S. (talk) 09:17, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Hm, if you find any relevant book on Questia you can ask to sent you the full text of it. He has access and writes stuff about Austrlaian war memorials. And you should probably try out without copyediting it, I'm not sure that mine does much good actually. I wrote Stan McCabe randomly without doing a ce and it actually had some really bad prose, and Jackyd gave it 8, and he gave BAW 8 as well..... YellowMonkey  ( bananabucket ) 03:13, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Harry Murray at FAC
Hey Bryce! Just a thought but you may want to contact on their talk pages the people who have already commented asking whether they'd now consider supporting. -- R OGER D AVIES  talk 15:24, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Victor Smith
thanks, i gave it a C as it was quite short. it was also had no pictures of the subject, i therefore counted this as a 'missing element' per C criteria but you're right that technically it probably still meets B criteria, Tom B (talk) 19:56, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Neville Howse
I believe that I have now pretty much sorted out Howse's early service history - after trawling through two biographies of the man, and also two other sources for the King's South Africa Medal, I am now confident that he was not entitled to the KSA. I have done some editing to his page as a result. PalawanOz (talk) 11:24, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Military history WikiProject coordinator election
The September 2008 Military history WikiProject coordinator election has begun. We will be selecting nine coordinators to serve for the next six months from a pool of fourteen candidates. Please vote here by September 30! This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 21:04, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Harry Murray
Well done!  YellowMonkey  ( bananabucket ) 03:40, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Indeed, well very done! The first of many I expect :) -- R OGER D AVIES  talk 06:01, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Good effort - congrats! Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 12:44, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Can you urgently help Milhist please?
We've had a rather large bombshell dropped on us. The Wikipedia editorial team are aiming to release a version of Wikipedia on CD/DVD in time for the end of year holiday season. They've provided us with a list of 1333 Milhist articles they intend including. The problem is that the quality of these articles varies considerably. We've put together review page listing all the articles, in twenty-five article worklists. I'm hoping that 15-20 trusted editors can work through the list, weedying out problem articles and identifying suitable versions for release. The work is as far away from a tagging and assessing drive as you can imagine though, for convenience and ease of use, we've closely followed the traditional Milhist drive format. This is, at the moment, an invitation-only review. The reason is that time is short and we can't afford too many mistakes. I'm only contacting experienced editors who performed very well indeed in the last two Milhist drives. I guess that working through a worklist of twenty-five articles will take between one and three hours to do. We're aiming to get the preliminary work done by next Sunday, so it's urgent too. I do hope you can help but – if it's not too much trouble – if you are unable to participate at the moment, would you please let me know on my talk page? Thank you for your time, -- R OGER D AVIES  talk 17:19, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

MILHIST Assessment 0.7
Please find replacement articles for the ones you suggested for replacement. Wandalstouring (talk) 11:22, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Central Coast WW2 Sites
Hi, I see you have edited and improved my article Australian prisoners of war in the Korean War. Thanks for the help. I was planning on improving it to a tabular format soon. Are you aware of a number of World War II sites located around the Central Coast? If you are able to help out with any information or pictures it would be greatly appreciated. Regards--Newm30 (talk) 02:08, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Woy Woy Aerodrome
 * Tuggerah Aerodrome
 * ‎No. 19 Radar Station RAAF
 * I forgot to include Juno Battery, Juno Point, Hawkesbury River near Little Wobby and Patonga. This gun battery was part of the Coastal defences of Australia during World War II. --Newm30 (talk) 02:37, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

PHC
Better, but you've left the text a bit clunky in places. Would you like me to de-clunk or will you do it yourself? Few typos too: e.g. Australian's; center etc. You need to take the size parameter out of the thumbs. -- R OGER D AVIES  talk 05:24, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, I'll get onto it. Do check everything for accuracy though. It's easy to change meanings inadvertently :) -- R OGER D AVIES  talk 06:10, 26 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Incidentally, I've found a bit more material in Carlyon's "The First World War". I'll add it. (If you don't have Carlyon, run to buy him, though his "Gallipoli" is better.) -- R OGER D AVIES  talk 17:10, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Mike Hindmarsh
Hi Bryce, Here's something up your alley: When did Mike Hindmarsh join the ADF? (I can't track it down. His bio only mentions when he graduated.) Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 11:02, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi Pdf, it is my understanding that the Duntroon of the era in which Hindmarsh graduated typically constituted a three year course. With this in mind, my guess is that Hindmarsh joined the ADF in 1973 1975 upon entering Duntroon. Hope this helps, Abraham, B.S. (talk) 12:18, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

That's consistent with what you had on the page, and with what I would expect. (You don't have a supporting reference, do you?) However, User talk:Backswamp has just changed it to 1976. Do you want to revert it with an edit comment saying "Evidence please", or shall I. Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 12:36, 26 September 2008 (UTC) I haven't reverted it (yet). I posted this instead. Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 14:06, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Sadly, I have no conclusive reference, but it is common knowledge that the Duntroon course formally ran for three years. I would revert if I was you, as the ball seems to be more in our court on this one. Cheers, Abraham, B.S. (talk) 01:43, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it is sad, but not too surprising - I couldn't find anything either (but then, as you're aware, that isn't unusual!) I'll give him a couple of days to reply &/or react before I revert - feel free to do it yourself whenever you wish if you prefer. Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 01:50, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
 * OK. ;-) Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 02:07, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Y'know, it occurred to me that we are assuming he graduated in 1978, and hence studied in 1975-77. It's possible he may have studied 1976-78, and the author is taking the final year of study as the graduation year. Your thoughts? Pdfpdf (talk) 08:51, 27 September 2008 (UTC) Damn. I was hoping for an easy solution ... Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 09:38, 27 September 2008 (UTC) Hi. User talk:Backswamp replied(!) Pdfpdf (talk) 00:16, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Frank Hassett
Hi. The opening para seems a bit clumsy and overly wordy. You may prefer something similar to:
 * General Sir Francis George "Frank" Hassett AC, KBE, CB, DSO, LVO (11 April 1918 – 11 June 2008) was an Australian general who rose to the position of Chief of the Defence Force Staff, serving in this position from November 1975 until his retirement from the Australian Defence Force in April 1977. He was accepted into the Royal Military College, Duntroon in 1935 and was commissioned three years later. Serving with distinction in the early stages of the Second World War, he was promoted to lieutenant colonel in 1942 at the age of 23 and posted as a staff officer for the remainder of the war.

Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 08:27, 27 September 2008 (UTC) And I get a bit lost in these two sentences:
 * Promoted to brigadier, he commanded a brigade in Malaya for three years, before returning to Australia and serving in a variety of positions which eventually resulted in his appointment as Chief of the General Staff with the rank of lieutenant general. Promoted to general after two years in this position, he was made appointed Chairman, Chiefs of Staff Committee which was reorganised as renamed(??) Chief of the Defence Force Staff the following year.

Yes, if you can do basic arithmetic, you can work these dates out, but if you want to know when something specific happened, you want the date there, you don't want to have to stop and work it out. Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 08:45, 27 September 2008 (UTC) This was going to be a quick answer, but your reply is detailed and covers a number of points, so it would be rude of me give a vague & general response like my originally intended "I agree with most of what you have said". ''" ... a position marking him as the professional head of the Australian Defence Force" bit. I believe this should be retained, ... '' - I had/have no problem with that concept being there. My change was based on my personal dislike of the phrase a position marking him as - I guess I threw the baby out with the bathwater. " ... so I don't think the years of his promotions to brigadier or general are really required in the lead. ... " - In principle, I agree. In practice, you seem to have missed my intent. My comment was based on the idea of having a couple of "anchor" dates so the reader could easily determine what happened when. The idea was for simplicity and readability - not necessity. "As for the last issue raised ... " - Yeah, I know. Again, my reaction was to the "unsmoothness" of the sound of the phrase, not to it's accuracy. (Yes, it's accurate.) I was looking for a different phrase that was both accurate and sounded better. As you could notice from the "??", I wasn't too happy with "renamed" but couldn't think of anything I did like. "it seemed a little awkward" - I imagine you're well aware that I'm very much in favour of "making it seem less awkward". "and I knew you wouldn't exactly be impressed" - Yes, you were right on that point. ;-)  "I also removed ... " - Not my preferred outcome, but your point is well argued.   "(I know how much you do like "It's an Honour", lol)" - ;-) Changing subject, but only a little, I saw someone quote the Australian Govt gazette. Does everything in "It's an Honour" appear in either the London Gazette or the Oz gazette? And changing the subject a lot, you can't be convinced to put in a summary table of awards, can you? Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 10:12, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
 * "which was reorganised as" - How about: "which after a reorganisation became" (or similar)? Pdfpdf (talk) 10:17, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

re: Wikipedia 0.7 Questions
Sorry about the delay in getting back to you. I've been holding fire on the advice pending this. Otherwise: And nope, you're not being a pain :) -- R OGER D AVIES  talk 10:14, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 1) B-Class > Start. You don't to be a link in for the downgraded articles. Perhaps just "Improve" in the "Comments" column.
 * 2) FAs. Any articles assessed by community process need to stay in. Find the best link you cam, even if it's the best of a bad lot :)
 * 3) Replacement articles. Do the best you can. There won't always be suitable replacements. (Dealt with at length in my posting at MHCOORD.)

Milhist W0.7: update
Thank you very much for your help in our review of the W0.7-nominated articles, which has proved to be a very worthwhile exercise. As the number of sub-standard articles found was much higher than anticipated, the coordinators are currently considering how best to follow this up, given the project's limited resources and the short time span – under three weeks - for making improvements.

The review has been a very worthwhile exercise and will lead to a major quality improvement initiative in the very near future. In the meantime, if you found any articles that you feel you could easily fix, I'd be very grateful if you invested a little time doing so. Please also feel free to nominate any articles for inclusion which you feel were overlooked. The procedure for this is here and the nominations should be made here. -- R OGER D AVIES  talk 07:41, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Blair Anderson Wark
I'll be happy to copyedit the article, although I can't guarantee it'll be soon (yours is third in the queue!). All the best, EyeSerene talk 08:01, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

re: Barnstar
Thank you very much indeed, Bryce. It was a pleasure working on the articles and, indeed, with you :) -- R OGER D AVIES  talk 10:46, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

re:Lord Hugh Seymour GAN
Feel free to review the article. I've been extremely sick the past few days, and I haven't had time to get on Wiki. Cheers,  Ṝέđ ṃάяķvюĨїήīṣŢ  Drop me a line''' 22:22, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for passing this, appreciate the review.--Jackyd101 (talk) 15:30, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXXI (September 2008)
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 21:47, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

List of Australian Victoria Cross recipients
convert refs to citations - Thanks Bryce. Good job. Pdfpdf (talk) 11:12, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

ACR CSJ
This bit needs clarifying (Lt is more senior than 2nd Lt): "Promoted to lieutenant in the CMF during July 1915, he was appointed as a second lieutenant in the Australian Imperial Force on 1 February 1916, and allotted to C Company of the 34th Battalion." -- R OGER D AVIES  talk 07:09, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Although he was promoted lieutenant in the Citizens Military Force in July 1915, when he transferred to the Australian Imperial Force on 1 February 1916 he dropped a rank and was assigned C Company of the 34th Battalion as a second lieutenant.? Longer but clearer? -- R OGER D AVIES  talk 10:45, 12 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Point taken. Why not drop the bit about promoted to Lieutenant in the CMF? It doesn't really add anything. -- R OGER D AVIES  talk 05:23, 13 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Chuckle:) "Murder your darlings?" This kind of thing is a stumbling block, which will make people pause and wonder. It's the old difference between substantive ranks and acting/honorary/local ranks. Here's another go:
 * "Appointed lieutenant in the CMF during July 1915, he tranferred to the Australian Imperial Force on 1 February 1916, with the substantive rank of second lieutenant, in charge of C Company of the 34th Battalion."
 * -- R OGER D AVIES  talk 06:46, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Peter Leahy
In response to this edit, I was looking for info, and also discovered that the first two links at Peter Leahy are now no-longer relevant. (At least the Official Photo link still works!) Other than these two, I can't find anything particularly useful, and certainly nothing with his birthdate. (Note that the 9 July 2008 article says he's 55, but that doesn't rule out either date.) Do you mind having a quick look and see if you can find anything useful? Thanks, Pdfpdf (talk) 11:57, 14 October 2008 (UTC) Found one: http://www.defence.gov.au/leaders/army/pLeahy/index.htm (But no birthdate) Pdfpdf (talk) 12:04, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

GA Review
I have reviewed Ernest Albert Corey and placed it On Hold. Some suggestions have been made to get the article to GA-Class on the article's talkpage. Skinny87 (talk) 08:37, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
 * If only all reviews were that easy! There we are, that's now a GA-Class article. Skinny87 (talk) 09:07, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Third Battle of Kharkov ACR
Hey, you commented on the A-class review, for the article Third Battle of Kharkov, and I just wanted to invite you back for further commentary (I'm trying to avoid stagnation!). Thank you! JonCatalán(Talk) 19:40, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm notoriously poor with prose. I guess I'm getting better, so maybe I should venture into trying to improve prose. JonCatalán(Talk) 05:15, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Article you may be interested in
Hi! You probably don't know me; I'm a reasonably new editor who has been working on the article Bruce Kingsbury. While I have improved it somewhat, another user recommended I speak to you about improvement, considering your experience. If you have a spare few minutes, it'd be great for you to have a look and give some hints. Hope to hear from you!
 * Thanks for the reply. I've run out of sources personally, (I'm waiting on the Silent Men to become available at the library) so if you have any additional texts that'd be perfect. The article is relatively weak in the background section. Thanks! \ / (⁂) 05:22, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * No probs, I've been distracted by other goings on also. :) \ / (⁂) 10:05, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Done. Hope I didn't make a mess of it. :) \ / (⁂) 10:57, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Hi, I was wondering if you could weigh in at User talk:Nick Dowling. Thanks. :) \ / (⁂) 08:00, 4 November 2008 (UTC)