User talk:Acabashi/Archive 4

Hello Stanger
How are things going? I have been away a long time I think, mostly researching Brothertoft history. I have come up with a fair bit, but am unsure how to proceed with the Wiki article. Firstly - Sampson Gideon didnt own the place - its a spurious claim by William Marratt. I have seen the Final Concord at Surrey History Centre, dated 1760 between the Duke of Newcastle Heirs, Lady Catherine Pelham (widow of Henry) and Sir Charles Frederick who bought it directly from them. It was during SCF time that the surrounding fens were enclosed, and during his time that the Holland Fen Riots took place - with the Brothertoft people being some of the main instigators. When SCF died in 1785 his son and heir Thomas Lenox Frederick sold it to Major John Cartwright who took possession Lady Day 1789. Cartwright turned his hand to woad farming and built possibly the first stationary woad mill close to the Nth 40 foot bank. Cartwright moved to London in 1805, letting the Hall and refurbishing the Hall before selling to Henry Gee the Boston banker in 1813. He died 1845 and Thomas Gee son and heir took over, building the school and rebuilding the church, which was by now rather dilapidated. The school existed seemingly both as a day school and a sunday school until 1880/1 when the Hedgehog Bridge and Barley Sheaf schools were opened by the Board. After this it was just a sunday school, and eventually became the parish hall. With regard to who built the Hall, it seems at least some kind of manor house existed prior to 1776, when Sir Charles Frederick leased it to John Chappell, it was described as "Manor House farm previously called Capital farm house" and was repeatedly refurbished/extended possibly from the point of demolition and starting again on the same site. However there is no reliable record in existance of any single person building it. It existed in Cartwrights time, he extended it, it was later extended and modernised by both Gee and Frederick Curtois. With regard to Thomas Saul/John Saul there is no record of them ever owning or even leasing the Hall. There is one of Thomas Saul leasing an area of "Low Fen" near Boston West from John Fossitt dikereeve of Boston, along with John Fisher and Robert Smith in 1729. This Thomas Saul laid the foundation stone of the new baptist chapel in Boston then promptly died in 1763 of smallpox and the chapel was built and completed by his son John Saul. Both men were buried at Brothertoft after funeral at Boston St Botolphs. Most of this is citable either through online refs or the Parish History "Holland Fen with Brothertoft" by Betty Brammer 2000. Yours A Panderoona (talk) 17:31, 8 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Nice to hear from you again. I've been off WP for about a fortnight myself - up to my eyes in the new Birds of a Feather tour which begins in 3 weeks time. Its at the Woking New Vic at the end of March - close to you I think.


 * It's difficult for me to advise as you on Brothertoft as you are the expert. A bit of the stuff looks like it can be added to Boston too. If you are adding substantially more it might be appropriate to have further sub-sub-sections as you have with buildings, to make it an easier read. The stuff you have seems to spread across different article sections but most seems to apply to the hall and land, perhaps 'manor' could include both, as there is not much on the actual structure of the hall building under "Hall", however 'manor' would have to go back to Saxon times. It's a problem in a place article when most of the information found is concentrated in one area: Geog or Hist or Amenities etc, or elements within these, which tends to overbalance it, but necessarily so if most info is about one aspect. When I get a bit more time I'll have a closer look - just add it in where you think for now. You have most likely seen this but it might help:


 * As for Marrat's spurious claim, if it is reffed it should go in, but with a reffed counterclaim for what you understand from your research as being true, with mention of this contention, and with any indication from other sources that state that Marrat is not being factual. It's hard to believe that Marrat would directly mis-fact. Did Gideon just rent the land - did he own it and then sell it back ? Marrat might have just missed out a stage in ownership that he felt was less important. We have to go with what is verifiable unfortunately.


 * As for Sampson Gideon - his father Sampson Gideon was a Jewish banker and co-founder of the Stock Exchange, and whose actual name was Gideon Abudiente. It would be an interesting addition to the article if there is some Brothertoft connection for the father. Abudiente/Gideon, was one of the richest members of London's Jewish community, and according to Nocturnal Revels was a frequent client at the bawd Charlotte Hayes's "nunnery" - another article I'll have to have a go at. Acabashi (talk) 20:26, 8 February 2012 (UTC)


 * thanks Acabashi as always for good input - I will go away and have a think about how I think I should proceed. Might ask further advice or a proof-read ;) Panderoona (talk) 10:43, 9 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Sampson Gideon - found no refs to him renting or owning land there at all unfortunatly. There are refs online to him buying up large areas of land in Bedford Level, and I think perhaps Marratt was either misinformed or confused. I doubt also that he would make a deliberate spurious claim. I have seen the indentures at Surrey History Centre (in full orig doc form) dated 1774 which are long, involved, and also give history of previous tenants - Manor farm for instance, was previously held by Mrs Elizabeth Airy. Several other farms seem to have also been held by her and also state the tenant before her as well. Manor farm was in 1776 rented out to John Chappell of Kelham but he only seems to stick around to circa 1780. Herbert Ingram (Agent) wrote letters on the accounts of the tenants at Brothertoft to Sir Charles Frederick and to his son Thomas Lenox Frederick. It seems when Chappell went off for whatever reason, Edward Wilks took over his account, until he died about the same time as SCF himself (1785). The estates of both were settled in TLF favour shortly after. Ingram relates meeting Major John Cartwright and showing him around Brothertoft prior to the eventual purchase. Very interesting reading! But no, frankly I havent been able to find anything on Gideon. Further backed up by the Holland Fen with Brothertoft parish Booklet, pub 2000 by a local historian with a degree, also came to conclusion land passed direct from The Duke of Newcastle and Catherine Pelham (widow of Henry) to SCF. The Final Concord relates the same. The online index to these refs can be found via National Archives, although of course they do not state the full story. Anyway, thats about the gist of it regarding Gideon? I have also asked Sitush to take a look. Many thanks as always and hope you are well A. Panderoona (talk) 22:31, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

New Page Triage engagement strategy released
Hey guys!

I'm dropping you a note because you filled out the New Page Patrol survey, and indicated you'd be interested in being contacted about follow-up work. This is to notify you that we've finally released both the initial documentation about the project and also the engagement strategy, which sets out how we plan to work with the community on this. Please give both a read, and leave any comments or suggestions you have on the talkpage, on my talkpage, or in my inbox -.

It's awesome to finally get to start work on this! :). Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 02:29, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - March 2012
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Your revision of the Page Walcott
Hi Acabashi,

Forgive me if I'm not doing this correctly, but I'd like to draw your attention to an edit youve made on the Walcott, Northi Lincolnshire page. The line "The village can be mistaken for another Walcot in North Lincolnshire, as confusing local road signs use both spellings: Walcott and Walcot." and an external link to a youtube video of the weeping ash n Walcot have been incorrectly added; local road signs use both spellings because there are two villages; Walcot, near Folkingham (where the ash is) and Walcott, north of Sleaford. There used to be a correct Walcot page but it has been deleted, presumably under disambiguation. If you could help fix this, it would be great as I have no idea how to. Many thanks, 92.6.234.232 (talk) 17:47, 18 March 2012 (UTC)Jack A Walcot Resident.

Re: Hacker Defender
Well I've removed that particular link anyway. You're right, there's no specific speedy category. However, based on a cursory Google search it doesn't seem like a notable rootkit. Perhaps a proposed deletion? ... disco spinster   talk  16:50, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

Categories
Sure and it's my pleasure, as always. I find that WP:HotCat helps with finding categories; it automatically fills them in as you enter them, so you get some idea of what things are available.

Excellent article - keep up the good work, and happy editing! -- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 21:22, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - April 2012
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Quote by Donald Knuth about "Liberal Education"
Hello Acabashi, the quote by Donald Knuth comes from "Things a computer scientist rarely talks about" by Donald E. Knuth, CSLI Publication, Stanford, California, 2001. (ISBN 1-57586-326-X).

The quote is from page 34 (Lecture 2: randomization and religion) "... if you think of the traditional definition of a liberal education: I don't know where I heard it first, but a liberal education is supposed to teach you 'something about everything and everything about something.'"

So actually it is not a definition given by Knuth.

On a note at page 51 it is said that the definition "is frequently attributed to Thomas Henry Huxley" and then that "it is attributed to Lord Henry Brougham".

Best wishes, Agentilini (talk) 13:59, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Domesday
Hi. The link to Domesday Book is part of the template. I personally do not know of any simple ways of modifying it to optionally not link to Domesday Book. If you (or anyone) do, then I would encourage you to be bold and do it. :) The couple of times 12 I know a link to the associated page on domesdaymap.co.uk already exist, I have simply added the (hidden) category. I hope that answer your question. KTC (talk) 10:27, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm sure that the template could be modified to not link to the Domesday Book, although I don't see any value in removing useful links - perhaps for a very short article, two links to it is overkill, but, for anything longer, the original link may be difficult to locate. Warofdreams talk 13:40, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - May 2012
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WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - June 2012
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St Wulfram's Church, Grantham
Many thanks with your help tidying some of the refs, etc in this article. Yes, I was very wary of wn.com, but couldn't find a link to that video anywhere else. I guess it's a pernmitted site, unlike YouTube, but less reliable. Regards. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:46, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I think WP has no probs with vids unless they contain promotional, copyvio, personal or POV material, and are on a reliable site and not surrounded by rich media. I can't see this particular Wn vid as I'm temporarily using an old computer - WP also cautions against linking to media that might be difficult to view by many. Wn text can also be a problem, text which is normally copy-pasted from other sites, including WP. I've also noticed that Wn links break down through frequent site changes. This vid and text is copied from here I think: - if this is the one it's poor quality shooting with a lot of family shots and talk, and doesn't do the church any favours. Close shots focussed on people could also be a problem - featuring and outing non-notable persons.


 * WP cautions against YouTube (per above) but does not blanket-ban it - I use a YT account and occasionally add vids to WP place articles with no comeback so far, but they are religiously non-promotional, non-personal and focussed on the subject: . Also I add them to External links rather than as an inline cite. When I'm back in Grantham I'll see if I can vid the church more professionally, but I'll not climb those stairs :) Cheers, Acabashi (talk) 13:54, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Like many of my additions to WP articles, that link was a little speculative, and I have no problem if other editors think it's not appropriate - either because of the host site or the actual video content. It is a bit amateurish and a bit too long. I'd be more than happy myself to climb those stairs and take a better video, but I don't have a good video camera and, of course, the parapet is open to the public only in one week every year. On the day that I visted last month, I was doubly disappointed as, even though it was a Friday morning, when the Trigge Chained Library is normally open, the man who shows people around was on holiday and no-one else could find the key! Also, all the photos I took of the incredible golden reredos did not come out well and had to be binned. Oh well, at least I saw the live CCTV of the peregrin falcons in the tower (which I think might also deserve a mention in the article.. ) Anyway, many thanks for your friendly advice and information. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:55, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

12th Century etc
I'm fairly sure your original "12th century" (without the hyphen) is the more common UK English form - or, at the least, it is an entirely valid and acceptable form and not an error. I have just been "corrected" in the same way by Chris-the-Speller and have undone his "correction" of a so-called typo! Some Wiki editors get a bit carried away, and some degenerate into self-important nit-pickers (with or without a hyphen) - I would not dream of saying into which category our self-appointed instructor in English falls :) John Hamilton (talk) 12:46, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I have already responded to John on his talk page. Chris the speller   yack  15:44, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I understand John’s frustration here but I think we need to accede to MOS formula. A requirement to adhere to WP style can be annoying, but MOS formats are essential to keep an agreed look across all articles to avoid confusion and provide a professional and easily-understood reference system for readers – after all, WP is about reader experience not about our various ideas about how articles should be formulated, however much we might disagree with guidelines. Guidelines can be changed, but this happens within MOS discussion, not in articles.


 * My understanding is this: X is from the 12th century | X is from the early-12th century | X is a 12th-century Y | X is a 12th- to 13th-century Y | X is an early-12th-century Y. I read this in MOS somewhere, if I've got it right, but I can’t remember where – should have bookmarked - story of my WP life :) Please correct if I am wrong, add any other formulations, or perhaps point me back to the actual MOS reference that I inefficiently failed to note. Very many thanks. Acabashi (talk) 01:08, 11 June 2012 (UTC)


 * I think you got everything bang on, except for the second example, "X is from the early-12th century". There is no basis that I know of for using a hyphen; "early-12th" is not a compound modifier, as "early" modifies "12th century", not "12th". You would, however, be correct in writing "X is from the mid-12th century", as "mid-" is a hyphenated prefix. If I am wrong, or if you find a guideline that shows that the second example requires a hyphen after "early", I would like to know about it. Happy editing! Chris the speller   yack  02:26, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm sure you are right, and I'll trust your advice on this Chris. Many thanks. Acabashi (talk) 02:40, 11 June 2012 (UTC)