User talk:AchtungAchtung

Günter Grass
With regards to your comments on my editing of the Günter Grass article (you can review your personal attack which was placed in the edit summary of the Grass article on 22:00, 11 August 2006 AchtungAchtung (Talk | contribs) m (''Getaway, stop inserting "huhuh, he was a Nazi" everywhere. That's childish.): Please see Wikipedia's no personal attacks policy. "Do not make personal attacks anywhere in Wikipedia. Comment on content, not on the contributor. Personal attacks damage the community and deter users."''  Please keep this in mind while editing.  Thanks. --Getaway 22:29, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Hi, AchtungAchtung, I was reading the article on Günter Grass and looked at the talkpage and noticed the dispute over the label of Nazi. I think I agree with you in that it is not appropriate to label Grass a Nazi just because he was in the SS as one point- Further, I think it was wrong to warn you for your response to trying to point out that adding "he's a nazi" commentary to an article is childlike and POV editing, since you were trying to remove derogatory (and incorrect) commentary from the biography page of a living person, as it says on the talkpage's boilerplate message. It seems like one or two editors were intent on conflating membership within Germany's military in WWII and membership in the Nazi party, which is a serious fallacy, and is probably a leftover remnant of American propaganda. By any means, I took out what I thought was commentary/POV in Grass' article, and I would like to encourage you to keep an eye on it. --Akhonji 14:07, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Wrong, Wrong, Wrong. I warned him because he called my edits "childish" and he stated, "and that leads me to believe that you don't know much about the topic at all".  So you can make comments all day long about whether the article should have the word Nazi in it or not, but you and AchtungAchtung are not going to blast my edits as "childish" and personal attacks as not knowing "much about the topic at all."  Get it?? --Getaway 14:17, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Attempting to defame the subject of an article because he was in the German Military is inappropriate. Trying to insist that Grass was a member of the Nazi party because he was in the German Military is not only fallacious, but naïve, which is probably why AchtungAchtung thought it childish, and thought that you had an incomplete understanding of how Germany worked during the war. --Akhonji 14:43, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
 * As I pointed out to AchtungAchtung and I am going to point out to you, I was merely quoting directly from various news sources such as the BBC, National Post of Canada, Rueters, etc. Now, if had been using my own words then may be, just may be, your argument that I looking to defame Mr. Gunter "I forgot that was a member of the Nazi SS" Grass might have some validity.  However, I was just quoting other sources.  Now, I don't hear Mr. Grass announcing lawsuits against the BBC, the National Post of Canada, Reuters, etc. because he knows that he does not have a legal case.  Now, it is clear that you are attempting to defame me by repeating the words of AchtungAchtung and I will not stand for that.  I've said it before and I will say it again, Mr. Grass is suffering for Kurt Waldheimer's Disease, he forgot he was a Nazi.  Now, he lied about his membership in the Waffen-SS for 60 years.  What else is this man that you are defending lying about??? People want to know. All of the Republicans in the U.S. want to know, the people that he called "Nazis."  I've never created a concentration camp and burned people alive, but Mr. Grass has called me a Nazi.  It would be nice if he could give us an explanation on why it took him 60 years to stop lying about his past. What else is he lying about??  What role did he play in the concentration camps???  How do we know??  He has been lying about his past for 60 years.  Now, you feel that you need to defend AchtungAchtung, but I ask why do you feel the need to do this???  I guess there is a history in Germany to blame the victim for the things that have happened to them.  In Germany, it is not the Nazis fault it is the victim's Nazi persecution who are to blame for their own persecution.  Blame the victim.  Don't blame the Nazi.  However, I have in the past and I will continue, regardless of your attempts to discourage and dissuade me, to refer to Mr. Grass using the terms of the popular media the censors of the Gunter Grass Wikipedia page be damned.  I quote from Robert Fulfort, of the National Post of Canada, from today:  "At age 78, the most eminent German writer of the age confessed that he served in wartime with the Waffen-SS, the embodiment of Nazi evil."  Let's see he used the words Nazi and Waffen-SS in the same sentence. Yes, it's true. The word Nazi appears.  I will now close with a direct comment that I made to another Wikipedian concerning this topic yesterday:  Günter Grass article: In my haste to make an edit, I misspelled Hitler's first name.  I hope that my ignorance can be excused.  Fortunately, I did not grow up in an environment where Hitler's actions were probably the leading historical topic, so I do not have the familiarity with his name that others might have.  Also, where I grew up and was educated we did not feel the need to make distinctions between high level Nazis, middle level Nazis and garden level Nazis.  So my ignorance of Nazi hierarchy should be excused.  Where I come from a man like Mr. Grass is just simply a Nazi.  Please forgive my ignorance again.  However, where I come from we may not know how to delineate between various levels of Nazis, but we damn well know what a Nazi is when we see one and we are not afraid to call a Nazi, well, a Nazi.  I truly ask for your forgiveness.  --Getaway 15:34, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I have responded on my talk page so as not to clutter up this editor's anymore. --Akhonji 18:23, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
 * First, I want to thank you, Akhonji, for your support. Secondly I want to say somthing to Getaway. In your comment above you insult a whole country - Germany - in a way that shows again, that you don't know much about the topic - and you seriously want to complain about having been attacked personally? By saying "I guess there is a history in Germany to blame the victim for the things that have happened to them. In Germany, it is not the Nazis fault it is the victim's Nazi persecution who are to blame for their own persecution." you just attacked the whole German people personally but you don't want to be called childish? I'm sorry, but that's not going to work. --AchtungAchtung 13:34, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Whatever. Take to a message board. --Getaway 13:36, 15 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Alright, have a nice day, too. --AchtungAchtung 13:47, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
 * You're welcome for my support, AchtungAchtung. I thought you might have needed it because I have seen how heated debate can get on talk pages. Note that I do agree that calling other editors childish is a little uncivil (if I were you I probably would have used milder language, like "naive"), but by any means I felt that you shouldn't be driven away from the Wikipedia project because of one or two editors. By any means, see you around. --Akhonji 14:18, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Your edits.
Hi there, I recently came across one of your edits which led me to look at your overall contributions. To me it seems you edit matters mainly revolving around World War and/or (Neo)Nazism, which is fine but please note that actions like the is not the way to make a neutral impression. You also seem to have a someone hostile attitude against the Polish language (example) and Poland itself;(example)
 * removal of Fritz Thyssen being a German nationalist.
 * removing of militant remark on Christian Worch
 * adding of a suspicious "citation needed" template on the same article

I'm sure that your intentions are good but on wikipedia neonazis aren't exactly welcome so don't act like one if you aren't one.

Rex 13:31, 4 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Please, Rex, no personal attacks.--AchtungAchtung 13:58, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

This is not a personal attack, merely a warning. Rex 14:04, 4 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Warn me? Of what? --AchtungAchtung 14:08, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Read the first post and find out. Rex 14:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Okay, now I give you some advice: Better keep your "warnings" to yourself. Your behaviour is absolutetly inacceptable. --AchtungAchtung 14:49, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Just obey the rules and quit making a fuss. Rex 15:00, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

You started all that. Don't do it again.--AchtungAchtung 12:53, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

I reacted on edits you made, I did not start this you yourself did it by making those edits. Stop making them. Rex 13:55, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

These edits are necessary to ensure the principle of NPOV. If you don't agree with my edits, discuss it on the talk page of the respective articles. And of course I'll continue editing articles that are damaged by POV pushers or simply incorrect.--AchtungAchtung 14:16, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

"These edits are necessary to ensure the principle of NPOV." Lol ... right. Anyway I've warned you I strongly advise you to listen to it. This will (probably) be my last message here, you can "have" the last word if you like. Rex 15:02, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

I still don't know what you threaten to do, if I don't "listen to your warnings". Nevertheless, I don't think it's a sign of good manners to try to threaten others, even if you don't really have something you could threaten them with. And again, why don't you use the talk pages of the respective articles? Do you think that you couldn't use your personal attackes there, or what?--AchtungAchtung 19:16, 5 September 2006 (UTC)