User talk:Aciram/Archives/2016/September

Speedy deletion nomination of Jeanne la Fouaciére


Hello. A tag has been placed on Jeanne la Fouaciére requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a person or group of people, but it does not credibly indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please read more about what is generally accepted as notable.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator. Zackmann08 (Talk to me/What I been doing) 05:08, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

Hofmeisterin
Don't you think we should keep this article at its untranslated name? Chief Mistress sounds like something quite different! I can only find one reliable source that uses the direct translation, which is in the papers of Ben Franklin. Celia Homeford (talk) 12:48, 15 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Do you mean that the article Chief Court Mistress should be renamed? There is, as you see, the problem that the office in question had several different names: the German, the Swedish, the Danish and the Norwegian version of the name. You yourself have, in fact, used the German title Hofmeisterin here above, rather than the Danish. Which name should be used for the article when there are four different untranslated names of the same position? The translation 'Chief Court Mistress' is used in the reference work "Fabian Persson (1999). Servants of Fortune. The Swedish Court between 1598 and 1721. Lund: Wallin & Dalholm. ISBN 91-628-3340-5", and that is, as I recall, the only reference that has actually translated it - other book do not translate the titles at all, or used the English equivalent "Mistress of the Robes", which was not quite the same, and we should link the title to its article. But if you mean that we should us the Danish version of the title in the article of Caroline Matilda or Louise von Plessen, then I agree that it would perhaps be the best (although most court titles sounds a little strange).--Aciram (talk) 12:57, 15 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Might it be more frequently translated as "Lady of the Court" or "Principal Lady of the Court/First Lady of the Court", see for example http://www.kungahuset.se/royalcourt/monarchytheroyalcourt/theroyalcourt/officeofthemarshalofthecourt/hmthequeenshousehold.4.396160511584257f2180002410.html? Celia Homeford (talk) 14:10, 15 September 2016 (UTC)
 * No. Anna Hamilton is not "överhovmästarinna", she is a "statsfru", which is a different title. Nowadays, the statsfru has the same duties as the överhovmästarinna had historically. I may translate the article statsfru eventually - "statsfru" is translated as "Mistress of the State" in the scholarly reference works I have seen it translated. And of course, that it not a reference work - its the reference books that counts, the page of the royal court may simply want to make themselves understood by English readers - and the issue of several languages still remain. "Chief Court Mistress' is an almost literary correct translation from Swedish: "över" means "Upper/Higher/First", "hov" means "Court" and "mästarinna" means "Mistress" as in "ruler/manager" rather than "female lover" - the English word mistress can after all also mean both female lover as well as female ruler/manager. --Aciram (talk) 14:36, 15 September 2016 (UTC)