User talk:Activadvocate

February 2011
Welcome to Wikipedia. We welcome and appreciate your contributions, including your edits to Reincarnation, but we cannot accept original research. Original research also encompasses novel, unpublished syntheses of previously published material. Please be prepared to cite a reliable source for all of your information. Thank you. Dr.K. λogosπraxis 11:16, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Your messages
Here are the messages you left on my talk and the replies by user A Macedonian. My replies are stated below.

Segment 1 and replies
"== Original Research? ==

You stated that you could not accept original research, including new syntheses of existing published reliable sources. Why? In my submission expanding the Christianity cite on the entry for reincarnation, I quoted the New Jerusalem Bible, surely a reliable source, and your own Wikipedia reference to Sadducees. Is there a way to re-phrase my submission on Jesus' apparent belief in reincarnation to make it acceptable? I would think that many Christians who believe in reincarnation would find this evidence reassuring, since most Christian churches find it convenient to ignore these passages.

Also please tell me if you are the sole arbiter of such decisions? If so, I wonder how you obtained this authority, and even why Wikipedia would disallow a submission that includes reliable sources. It seems to fly in the face of what a wiki (and Wikipedia by derivation) is all about.

Thank you for responding.

Sincerely, Activadvocate — Preceding unsigned comment added by Activadvocate (talk • contribs) 21:02, 26 February 2011 (UTC)"


 * Dr.K is right. Also, please take a look on Identifying reliable sources. A Macedonian, a Greek. (talk) 21:08, 26 February 2011 (UTC)


 * No I am not  the sole arbiter of such decisions? and to answer your other question:  If so, I wonder how you obtained this authority, and even why Wikipedia would disallow a submission that includes reliable sources. Please cut back on the rhetorical questions and assume good faith per our pillar of WP:AGF. I am just an experienced user who knows a thing or two about original research WP:OR. Dr.K. λogosπraxis  23:15, 26 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Also, again, please understand that you must find a published and recognised scholar who has reached a conclusion you want to add to the article. You must quote the work of the scholar where that conclusion is reached and quote page numbers etc. What you cannot do is get a bible and start reaching your own logical conclusions. This is synthesis WP:SYNTH and original research WP:OR and it definitely is not allowed here. But you do not have to believe me. Please ask anyone from the thousands of editors here or ask a question at the original research noticeboard WP:OR/N. Thanks again. Dr.K. λogosπraxis 23:30, 26 February 2011 (UTC)


 * For the validity of your sources you can ask the editors frequenting WP:RSN, the reliable sources noticeboard. I hope this helps. Good luck. Dr.K. λogosπraxis 23:33, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Segment 2 and replies
{{blockquote|text=

Here are some reliable sources
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0963496492/ref=nosim/neardeathcom-20#reader_0963496492. He has a Ph.D. and has written a book about Jesus' belief in reincarnation.

Here's another hopefully reliable source, again from someone with a Ph.D.: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0835606260/ref=nosim/neardeathcom-20#reader_0835606260

Here's another published and reliable source supporting what I submitted: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0835605019/reluctantmess-20#reader_0835605019

This interpretation is not without controversy, of course. Biblical churches especially find other biblical references to explain away the interpretation that Jesus believed in reincarnation. For this, the cite I found was not a published (in paper) work, merely a web page (http://home.earthlink.net/~ronrhodes/Reincarnation.html) so I don't know if you and the other editors would consider this reliable.

If web pages are reliable, consider this web page supporting a belief that God himself subscribes to reincarnation: http://www.vnn.org/editorials/ET0008/ET15-6154.html

There were only 961,000 results when I Googled Jesus reincarnation. These came from the top few. With these in mind, shall I expand and amend my submission or are you simply and totally opposed to this concept?

Activadvocate — Preceding unsigned comment added by Activadvocate (talk • contribs) 21:27, 26 February 2011 (UTC) }}
 * Geddes MacGregor is definitely considered a reliable source, but I doubt about the rest... I don't think there will be any problem to use him as a source for your edit. A Macedonian, a Greek. (talk) 21:43, 26 February 2011 (UTC)


 * I agree with A Macedonian. If you have WP:RS reliable sources which come to the same conclusions as you then you can add them to the article. What you cannot do is quote the bible and try to reach your own logical conclusions. This is not allowed. It is synthesis WP:SYNTH and original research WP:OR. Finally, please do not dump this stuff on my talkpage. Please go to the article talkpage from now on so that other editors can see this and participate. Thank you. Dr.K. λogosπraxis 23:20, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

[Help me]
I am new to Wikipedia and your systems and processes and definitions. When I saw that your Reincarnation posting failed to indicate biblical evidence that Jesus believed in reincarnation, I posted an edit to the Christianity section, quoting the Bible. My posting was almost instantaneously taken down by Dr. K on the premise that it was original research, so I researched how Wikipedia defines that and submitted other cites for my observation. A Macedonian said that one of them, Fr. Geddes MacGregor, was definitely a reliable resource. Fr. Geddes' publisher, Quest Books, says of his book "Rencarnation in Christianity: A New Vision of the Role of Rebirth in Christian thought" that "In this exciting landmark work, MacGregor delves into the annals of Christian history to demonstrate that Christian doctrine and reincarnation are not mutually exclusive belief systems."

This quote supports my observation.

Dr. K. then got on and chided me for "dumping this stuff" on his page and told me I was supposed to put it somewhere else. I don't know where that somewhere else is, or I would. Your system is not intuitive. I apologize for offending Dr. K. and want to assure him it was entirely unintended and attributed solely to me newbiness.

I don't wish to get into an argument. I'd just like your entry on the Christianity section of Wikipedia to reflect that while mainline Christian churches generally do not teach reincarnation, at least one leading Christian scholar believes that the Christianity and reincarnation are not mutually exclusive belief systems because I think it would be comforting for many Christians to find that there's theological support for their belief system. I don't know if the cite from Quest would be sufficient, or a cite from Amazon.com, where they can view the chapter headings and some sample pages.

Activadvocate (talk) 04:26, 27 February 2011 (UTC)Activadvocate, 2/26/11 11:24 p.m. Eastern Time


 * Please do not attribute motives to me that I did not have. I did not intend to chide you. But dumping a ton of references on my talkpage does nobody any good. Also don't forget the time I spent trying to clarify to you how to avoid original research and synthesis. I don't remember getting thanked for that. Anyway please go to Talk:Reincarnation where you can safely add all these sources. Hopefully others will join the discussion and everyone will be on the same page at the end. Good luck. Dr.K. λogosπraxis 04:39, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

A good start
Hi Activadvocate. Your new addition at Talk:Reincarnation is a promising development. It is the correct forum to propose your changes to the article and now other interested editors can come forward and discuss the matter with you. I will keep an eye to try and help out if I am needed. I wish to also thank you for your acknowledgement of my efforts and A Macedonian's. It was a kind gesture and it is appreciated. Even though I am not an expert in the field, I think that your arguments, as you presented them in the article talk page, are eloquent and have merit. Take care and do not hesitate to contact me if you have any questions in the future. Dr.K. <sup style="position:relative">λogos<span style="position:relative;bottom:-2.0ex;left:-5.2ex;*left:-5.5ex">πraxis 03:54, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Thank you, Dr. K. I guess I'm learning. Thank you for your patience with me. I will be honored if I can make a small contribution to global human knowledge in this one tiny area of Wikipedia. Activadvocate (talk) 04:31, 4 March 2011 (UTC)Activadvocate

Welcome!

 * }