User talk:Agent X

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Comparative method
Hi there! I see you've recently made a few (very useful) edits to the Polynesian language sections in Comparative method. As this is a already very good article, I'm trying to bring it up to Featured Article standard. However, I've run up against a bit of a brick wall when it comes to providing inline citations. As you seem to be quite good on Polynesian languages, would you mind helping to provide the appropriate references for those sections? Anything you can contribute will be very, very much appreciated. sjcollier 21:16, 27 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the advice! And also for that section headings numbering thing.  I've added what references I can with the books I have available (IE stuff, mostly); and the contributor who was responsible for many of the examples in the first place, Red Newt, has kindly offered on the article talk page to do what he can.  As I said, anything you can do for the Polynesian stuff would be great.  Other suggestions about/edits to the page generally are more than welcome.  I'm going to try to rewrite the lead sometime tonight, so feedback on that (before or after) would be hugely appreciated.  Cheers, sjcollier 20:08, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the references, and nice spot with the citation format - I didn't even realise they were inconsistent. Apparently, the correct format is without a space after the colon, so I've changed them all to that (don't think I missed any). I don't think the current lead does too bad a job of meeting the criteria. I couldn't find anything about keeping references out of the lead, so it's probably best to let them stand. I've put a paragraph on sub-grouping into the Genetically related languages sections and one on areal diffusion in the Criticisms, though what I've written is a long way from perfect. Cheers, sjcollier 11:39, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, you are right; I completely missed the bit about citations in the lead. Thanks also for the general feedback. The lead has already been expanded quite a bit since the objection on the FAC page, but I've tried rewriting/rearranging it as you suggest. As the article length is currently ~25,000 characters, the recommended lead length is 2-3 paragraphs; I think that the most important points are summarised in the two paragraphs there currently, though I suppose more could be added. Let me know what you think. Cheers, sjcollier 10:09, 30 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Slight update: the lead no longer exactly follows the structure of the article, but I think that Origins probably should come where is does in the article but not in the lead. sjcollier 21:19, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

vs
Thanks for fixing my template use in Hawaiian language. I never remember which of these to use, so I took a shot and hoped someone would fix it if I got it wrong.  &middot; rodii &middot;  20:01, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Hawaii
Howzit, Agent X...just saw an edit on the Hawaii page claiming that haole literally means "no breath". Not sure if this is true according to olelo hawaii scholars, so I thought I'd ask you to confirm. Let me know if I should delete their statement, or if it is accurate, please!

Thanks a lot! --JereKrischel 19:59, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Agent X: You wrote: "Anyone who states or believes (claims or conjectures, actually) that it was the intent of "the USA" to participate in overthrowing the Hawaiian monarchy in 1893 is faced with an insurmountable reality that rips the false belief to shreds: the friendship of US president Grover Cleveland with Hawaiian queen Liliuokalani...Under Cleveland, there was NO WAY that "the USA" would help to overthrow his personal friend Liliuokalani, as an intentional foreign policy decision of his administration."

Thanks for the comment pointing out the uncontroversial and obvious. Given that that the meaning you ascribe to what I wrote was clearly not what I meant, it seems a bit of a strawman sort of argument, doesn't it? Surely you understand that actions can often be encouraged without ever officially becoming defined policy requiring the approval of superiors. It should be fairly clear that reference to "the USA" was shorthand for agent(s) in the U.S. Government who were involved in discussions/activities in an advisory capacity. Surely too you must realize that there were (still are) multiple, competing, less-than fully transparent policy goings-on at various levels of government (and by that I refer to all governments) in which actions are devised and implemented without the explicit or even tacit complicity of higher ups.

As for your rhetorical style, you might want to back it down a notch. Although it does have a certain charm! In any event, when faced with an insurmountable reality that rips false beliefs to shreds, I for one turn to the current U.S. President for inspiration as to how to manage cognitive dissonance with blissful disregard. Aloha. Arjuna 03:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

The okina
Well, there had been issues concerning the box, and I thought that I had fixed them by changing the template that the box was in by emmersing the okina symbol in a font that it existed in. The okina template is utilized by WikiProject Hawaii, and is mentioned on the article about the symbol itself. As you can see now, the okina is viewable by users of Internet Explorer and Mozilla FireFox, which is what I had done sometime this summer. The ‘ symbol or  (lsquo) is not the symbol to be used, and I had fixed that usage in several articles where they had been used. The okina template is what should be used, since it is the correct typographic symbol. I know that I used Internet Explorer, where the box showed up most, but I had changed the template so it would work in both IE and FF. Someone had replaced the okina template in several articles where I had also replaced them. There is no importance to the size of it, but merely the correct usage of the Hawaiian alphabet in articles about Hawaii. Ryūlóng 20:52, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Unless you are not viewing  correctly when I encode it in the Lucida Sans Unicode type face, then there should more than likely be something done to fix it, again. Ryūlóng 20:59, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
 * If you are seeing the boxes instead of the okina symbol that looks like an upsidedown comma, please take a screenshot of this page and show it to me. Ryūlóng 21:02, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, in the TOC box, the Okina should probably be removed (I had probably done the changes in Microsoft Word). However, the symbol used in Okina is one that is used by WikiProject Hawaii in all of the articles associated with them. Ryūlóng 21:30, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I would guess that the &lsquo; should be used whenever italics are used, and the should be used in other formatting areas. Ryūlóng 21:35, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
 * But that is not what I believe WikiProject Hawaii prefers. The lsquo does work, but it is not what is considered to be the true okina, which is what the template does. Seeing as the body text is where the okina is used most, then it should probably be where the template is used. In the cases of italics or section titles that appear in the table of contents, the lsquo figure should be used in its place. It's easier to type than it is to find the lsquo figure. I would take this up at the WikiProject Hawaii talk page and see how they all feel about it before a unilateral change is performed. Ryūlóng 22:28, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
 * And my name is a combination of the Japanese and Chinese words for dragon. Ryūlóng 22:28, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh, and my main reason for suggesting the usage of the template in the article text is because it always shows up bold, and more like the symbol than anything else. I realize that you have the degrees and whatnot, but for aesthetics, the template works better in the normal article text than does the single typographic symbol (unless it is bolded in every case, which is probably just as space consuming as ). Ryūlóng 22:31, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Regarding edits made during September 3 2006 (UTC) to WikiProject Hawaii/Manual of Style
First of all, saying that "If you are an admin, and if necessary, I will seek to have your adminship revoked" is extremely incivil and can get you blocked. Stay cool. Secondly, making unilateral changes to the Manual of Style at WikiProject Hawaii is a completely different violation. You can make your changes at Hawaiian language, but do not make these changes elsewhere, as that goes against the manual of style that was there before you changed it completely. If you want to change the MoS, make a survey at WikiProject Hawaii, don't make the changes yourself. Ryūlóng 00:40, 3 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Adminship is not a life-long appointment. Any admin can be revoked if he does things that are not appropriate for an admin to do. For example, you misinterpreting my freedom of speech as being "incivil" is not an appropriate thing for an admin to do. You threatening to block me for reminding you of your "mortality" is a VERY inappropriate thing for an admin to do. Your statements regarding the WikiProject Hawaii Manual of Style are WAY OFF. You need to take a truth pill, man. There is no violation in editing an article when it specifically invites users to edit it. Have you even looked at it? It's not even an "article". It's a mere "stub". It's history page had only one entry before I contributed. Nobody has touched that stub in over 7 months. You said I "changed it completely". That's FALSE. Making FALSE statements is a VERY inappropriate thing for an admin to do. I did NOTHING that "goes against the manual of style that was there". There is NOTHING there that says don't make changes. There is NOTHING at WikiProject Hawaii requiring "a survey". There has been NO TALK AT ALL on that MoS since the STUB was created. It's been DEAD, with NO CONTRIBUTIONS, and NO USER INTEREST, for over 7 months. And now you criticize me for participating as a member of the Wikipedia community, and as an expert on the Hawaiian language, for making a positive contribution and bringing some LIFE to a dead, neglected stub? You need to review what Wikipedia is about. It's not about treating admins as a superior race. Admins are subject to the same rules as users. Even the President of the USA is just a man, Ryulong. Agent X 01:23, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I am not infringing on your freedom of speech (WP:NOT), I am saying that that was an extremely incivil statement towards me, which can be interpretted as a personal attack. I am not an admin (yet) and your disruption may become serious enough to require such a block, so all of your those comments about non-admin behavior are moot to me right now. If you want to change the stub of an MoS there, I would suggest starting up a survey there to decide which is preferred, the okina as shown on the talk page, or the &lsquo;okina that you are utilizing. There are editors who have worked hard on trying to get the Hawaiian language used on Wikipedia, including using the symbol that is closest to the okina. If you want to change how the okina is interpretted, I would suggest making that suggestion to WikiProject Hawaii, and then the MoS will be rewritten. Making these changes yourself, despite an entire group of Wikipedians who may or may not have your same beliefs will decide. Ryūlóng 01:31, 3 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Also, there is a section on Talk:Hawaiian_language about the okina and its correct usage, which someone had undoubtedly changed on many articles. Ryūlóng 00:48, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Also, if you have problems with me take them up with me. Don't try to bug others. Ryūlóng 01:44, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
 * And, I am not a Wikipedia administrator. As such, stop trying to get my non-existant adminship revoked. Ryūlóng 01:45, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

I am
an administrator and more uncivil comments like the one's Ryulong's talk page will get you blocked. Straighten up. pschemp | talk 01:54, 3 September 2006 (UTC)


 * "Straighten up" is an uncivil comment made by Wikipedia administrator pschemp. Agent X 04:59, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Blocked
You have been blocked for 24 hours for making personal attacks on Ryulong. Right or wrong you must remain civil. pschemp | talk 03:55, 3 September 2006 (UTC)


 * A certain admin will block you if you tell the truth about a certain user's dirty tricks. But she won't do anything to the user who pulled the dirty tricks. She only "punishes" the victim of the dirty tricks. The perpetrator goes scot free. That's "Wikipedia justice", as practiced by admin pschemp. Agent X 05:31, 3 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Apparently she wants no one to know that Ryulong deleted my request for help on Khoikhoi's talk page, falsely describing my request for help as "vandalism" in his edit summary. Oops! Was it "uncivil" again, for me to tell the truth? If so, then prosecutors in court will never be able to tell the truth about crimes, because it would be an "uncivil" "personal attack" to use words such as "lie", "dishonest", "vandal", "thief", "murderer", "rapist", etc. The judge would get too upset by such "uncivil comments". Come to think of it, every time an admin describes a user's action as "vandalism", or a user as a "vandal", that's an improper "personal attack", according to pschemp's logic. If pschemp treats people equally (not likely), then she better block all the admins who make those "personal attacks" of describing a particular user's behavior as "vandalism". And she better block Ryulong for using that "personal attack" against me in his false edit summaries. Agent X 05:31, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

For the record, Ryulong's deliberate deletion of my message from User talk:Khoikhoi is seen in Ryulong's user contributions at 01:44 3 September 2006. And Ryulong's deliberate misrepresentation of my request for help as "vandalism" is clearly seen in his edit summary. It should be seen in Khoikhoi's talk page history record as well. How much worse can it get? You follow Wikipedia procedure by requesting help through someone's talk page, and then the troublemaker monitors your contribution list to spy on your request for help, so that he can quickly go to that talk page, and erase your request for help. Then he tries to cover up what he did, by falsely describing your request for help as "vandalism", and marking his edit summary as "minor", hoping that nobody will discover what he did. Jimbo Wales really ought to hear about this one. Just how "low" can a user stoop on Wikipedia? Agent X 05:50, 3 September 2006 (UTC)


 * For the record, since you can't seem to stop publishing personal attacks, your page has been protected and your block extended. You changed the use of a template that you have no consensus to do. If you continue to make disruptive changes without consensus, you will be blocked again. Get some people to agree with you before unilaterally making decisions such as that. Wikipedia cares not that you have a PhD or any other credentials, we work on consensus. pschemp | talk 05:59, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Advocacy Request
Hello Agent X, I would like to help, but anticipate having my hands full over the next week with my current advocacy case. If this case dissolves, I may have more time to take on yours. In any event, I'd advise staying cool and attempting to establish consensus for your legitimate concerns rather than continuing to assert academic authority on this matter. Take care, Amerique 05:06, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Etymology of "Hawaii"
Hey Agent X, could you give a quick gander at the Hawaii page and validate the etymology section. I'm not sure if it's completely out of order, and would like a more educated POV on it. The original contributor would also appreciate either validation or refutation. Thanks! --JereKrischel 03:20, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:39, 23 November 2015 (UTC)