User talk:Al Ameer son/Archive 3

/Archive 1 /Archive 2

Thank you very much
I really appreciate the barnstar. It's very kind of you. I hope you are doing well and keep up your own good work!  T i a m u t talk 08:32, 20 February 2008 (UTC)


 * By the way, Soman is asking for the exact wording in the Aburish text at the Talk:Palestinian fedayeen article. If you could reply to his request, that would be great since I don't have a copy of the book myself. Thanks in advance.  T i a m u t talk 08:40, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Picture
Hello. I am translating the article Yasser Arafat to norwegian, and I am wondering whether the picture "Israeli raid in house during Karama.jpg" can be uploaded to Commons? If not, is there any other way for me to use it? Cheers, JohnnyGoodfella (talk) 01:06, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much for your reply. I will pass the question over to an expert on the norwegian wikipedia. By the way, I really liked the article myself, and this is what I have translated so far. Cheers, JohnnyGoodfella (talk) 01:19, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, I am planning on replicating the english article as much as possible; that includes all the references. Thank you for your help. JohnnyGoodfella (talk) 01:33, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Hi again. The translation is taking quite some time, but I am also spending much time writing related articles (the Norwegian Wikipedia is much smaller than the English, so the article doesn't look as good with all the red links). Anyway, could you please explain the last part of the section "Jordan" for me?

"By September 25, the Jordanian army achieved dominance, and two days later Arafat and Hussein agreed to a series of ceasefires. The Jordanian army inflicted heavy casualties upon the Palestinians — including civilians — who suffered approximately 3,500 fatalities.[26] Arafat and a number of his Fatah forces, including two high commanders, Abu Iyad and Abu Jihad, were forced into the northern corner of Jordan."

First they agreed to ceasefires, but did they suffer any losses (casualties) after that? Why were they forced into the corner of Jordan if they had agreed not to battle? Were there any clashes after the ceasefires? And one other thing: A series of ceasefires &mdash; is that many ceasefires at different places in Jordan, or at different times? Cheers, JohnnyGoodfella (talk) 00:40, 7 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your quick response! It's fairly late here in Norway (2 AM), so I will have to look at your reply tomorrow, but I am grateful for any help with this. JohnnyGoodfella (talk) 01:02, 7 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, that definitely clarifies it. Your help is truly appreciated. I will let you know if I see anything else I don't understand. Cheers, JohnnyGoodfella (talk) 11:58, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Haifa
Hi. I have added references for this section - hope it looks to be ok now. It was to me the only section which I wasnt sure about before, to be honest. Thanks. Flymeoutofhere (talk) 18:56, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Flymeoutofhere (talk) 21:24, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for fixing the Arafat article. I was in the process of replacing the text, but ran into some technical difficulties on the references I was trying to put in. Jules1236 (talk) 01:26, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

I don't think this is is spam, but here goes...
Wikipedia is strictly buisness (mostly) which is why I am sending these messages to random people.

These listed Wikipages Need your help!

Whoever knows when Alf Schofield died please put in on the Alf Schofield page, that would really help.

Look at the Talk:Kangaroo (meat) page regarding my post- Kangaroo Species- that would really help.

Look at Talk:Katharine McPhee regarding her spouse under Relationships by Keane Rox.

For April 2007 Nor'easter well, I put in a fact and referenced it and now I don't know how to complete the reference. Click the blue 2 reference and you'll know what I mean. Then click the [2] at the top of the April 2007 Nor'easter article and complete the reference.

Spread the word for these Wikipages in need! That is all.

I don't think this is spam, but I am copying and pasting the same content on my own userpage.

Please reply, --RayquazaDialgaWeird2210 (talk) 23:33, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Image:Abu_Jihad_with_Arafat.jpg listed for deletion
An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, Image:Abu_Jihad_with_Arafat.jpg, has been listed at Images and media for deletion. Please see the to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. -Nard 03:14, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Image:Abu_Jihad.jpg listed for deletion
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Image:Israeli_raid_in_house_during_Karama.jpg listed for deletion
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Image:Fedayeen_in_Lebanon.jpg listed for deletion
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Image:Arafat_in_Lebanon.jpg listed for deletion
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Image:Arafat_addresses_officers.jpg listed for deletion
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Thank you
It's good to meet you and thank you. Can you explain what "Yahya ibn Mahmud al-Wasiti" means in the image caption? Is that the name of the person depicted in the image, or the name of the painter? Badagnani (talk) 21:08, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

The 43rd edition? Do you know the year? Badagnani (talk) 21:48, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Got it fixed. Do you know why they say "maqāmah" instead of "maqām"? Badagnani (talk) 21:56, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

No I'm not positive, but I think its just a dialect problem or English interpretation problem. --Al Ameer son (talk) 21:57, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Arabic
I am learning Arabic and can tell you about a keyboard you can install, which will let you type Arabic using the English keyboard layout. It makes it so easy. Badagnani (talk) 21:58, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

It's up to you. I find it useful to search in Arabic or bilingually, and to add Arabic to Arabic-related articles. Badagnani (talk) 22:02, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Here it is (Arabic ASDF Eastern). There are a few letters that are different, but most of them are in the spot where they'd be on the English keyboard (Z for Z, R for R, B for B, etc.) Badagnani (talk) 22:04, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Please let me know if you have any problems or questions. Badagnani (talk) 22:17, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Name
Arabic Wikipedia gives this name:

 محمد القاسم بن علي بن محمد بن عثمان الحريري.

This looks like it would be Muhammad Al-Qasim bin Ali Bin Muhammad bin Uthman Al-Hariri. Badagnani (talk) 22:17, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

I don't know if بن would be pronounced "ibn" or "bin." Maybe "bin," if it was classical Arabic. Badagnani (talk) 22:25, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

User:Anas Salloum explained to me that it's the Hindu-Arabic numerals (Western numerals) that mess up the Arabic. The only way to do it is to put the name after the numerals, separately. Badagnani (talk) 22:29, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks and I'll try
I will try to add to Palestinian cuisine soon, though you did a great job there yourself. I'd like to add more to Ka'ak first and been thinking about doing a stand-alone article on Khamis Al-Amwat actually (though I still have not researched to see if there's anough material on the subject.) The customs and shared holidays of the din as'shaa'abiya (popular religion) of Palestine most interests me. I might do an article on that broader topic once I get some building blocks for it together too. Thanks again and good work yourself.  T i a m u t talk 18:53, 15 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Huldra often takes month or more wikibreaks, so I wouldn't be too concerned, though I do miss her when she's not around. Thanks for the link, by the way. Cheers.  T i a m u t talk 23:01, 15 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Yup; and now she is back again! Thank you for your note, Al Ameer son, and congrats to you for the Cuisine article! Btw, I am ordering the Palestinian cook-book (There are a lot of copies for sale over at abebooks.com, so it shouldn´t be too difficult to get), and will add inf. from it to the article when I get it. Regards, Huldra (talk) 05:08, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

question about the flag
I see on your userpage you mention that you prefer the old Iraq flag and not the new one. I was wondering if you could elaborate on why the new one is a joke and a symbol of Arab and Iraqi decline. Cheers, Kingturtle (talk) 03:59, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

did you know nomination I have made

 * ...that despite documenting land ownership in Palestine in 1945 for the British, Sami Hadawi was not buried in his native Jerusalem? by Al Ameer son OK? Victuallers (talk) 19:01, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Arafat again
Hi. Thank you for your kind help. The translation is moving forward. I have another question though. Take a look at this chapter, in the beginning of the second section. Is it supposed to be in "non-chronological" order? Quote:

"In February 1975, the Tigers assassinated the pro-Palestinian politician Ma'arouf Sa'ad. In April 1974, Phalangist forces killed twenty-seven Palestinians and Lebanese travelling on bus from Sabra and Shatila to the Tel al-Zaatar refugee camp."

Cheers from JohnnyGoodfella (talk) 16:45, 18 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your help. Tiamut has answered, take a look at my talk page! Regards, JohnnyGoodfella (talk) 13:30, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Sami Hadawi at DYK
Thanks for suggesting this article for DYK. The suggestions process is a little complex; please note in future, suggestions are made at Template talk:Did you know under the date the article was created. Another user will move your article to the update template once it has reached the head of the queue and been checked. Regards, Espresso Addict (talk) 20:34, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Sumud and the Beit Sahour tax revolt
Very insightful of you Al Ameer Son to suggest that the two are related. I'm beginning to look for sources that make the link explicit so that information about it can be incorporated into the article. If you find anything yourself, do pass it on or add it directly to the article. Great thinking!  T i a m u t talk 09:57, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Tali Fahima
Ya Al Ameer son, as you've commented on the article's Talk page, perhaps you'd agree to help with the following: I've asked that some content be added to the Mercaz HaRav massacre section, though I haven't succeeded in retrieving the source article from the Haaretz online English-language edition. (It was in the print edition though I neglected to note the date; I prefer citing Haaretz rather than Ynetnews as was done for the Yuli Tamir reaction.) Or perhaps you know of a better one? -- Thanks, Deborahjay (talk) 10:54, 22 March 2008 (UTC) [Update]: You'll see in that section I added Dalia Itzik's reaction (and party affiliation, for those readers who won't bother to jump). Incidentally, this marks my first attempt at adding a referenced citation in a Wikipedia article, something I've long been wanting to learn and will need to use often in the future! -- Deborahjay (talk) 11:14, 22 March 2008 (UTC) [Following your response ]: Thanks for checking; I went back to Haaretz online and likewise found nothing on March 12-14. I've heard in the past that the online edition doesn't include all the print edition's articles, and likewise that the English doesn't include all that's printed in Hebrew. On the other hand, I don't think an edit to that page would stand without citing an English-language reference, preferably online. So that's it for now. -- Deborahjay (talk) 17:22, 22 March 2008 (UTC) [...and in conclusion]: I did succeed in finding the article thanks to Google (per: Haaretz "Tali Fahima") since the search engine on the Haaretz site is fairly useless. Have posted the results on the Talk pages for both subjects, as I consider the reportage (and the incident) too minor for editing into the mainspace of either. -- Deborahjay (talk) 18:08, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Nablus photos
Hi Al Ameer son,

Nice work on re-arranging the Nablus page, photo wise. I wanted to add some images to an otherwise dull looking page. I like what you have done with them though. Best wishes.-- Rob NS  18:51, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Tel Aviv
I've had a go at addressing the points (during which the tag was removed as I didnt know where it should go - hopefully no longer needed) - is this ok? Flymeoutofhere (talk) 17:02, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Sure we can add that - I'd really appreciate it if you could provide a source (if you have one). Thanks. Oh also, who has to give the Haifa article the GA stamp of approval? Is it the other reviewer? Cheers -- Flymeoutofhere (talk) 10:02, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the barnstar! Flymeoutofhere (talk) 16:23, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Tantura
Hi al Ameer son, I removed the pov-tag. Regards, Ceedjee (talk) 12:56, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
 * No prob. Thanks for your efforts ! Ceedjee (talk) 13:17, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Eftekasat
Hi there, what's up?! Look, i wanted to ask you if you can state your opinion on this matter. Also please do visit those two pages, Eftekasat and Mouled Sidi El-Latini, to obtain a better understanding of the band! Thanks for your help. :) Maged M. Mahfouz (talk) 19:49, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Jifna
I did some checking on the JMCC and I'm now satisfied it is a reliable source, since it's quoted by the BBC and other reliable organizations. So I have promoted your original hook. Regards, Gatoclass (talk) 04:55, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Hey, I just redirect Jufna to Jifna since I think they are the same city. Just making sure with you. JoshuaZ (talk) 16:28, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, some terrorists were killed
In the Khalil al-Wazir article, you mention some high profile operations that he planned against civilian targets in Israel, along with the casualties in each case. That's relevant information, of course. However, adding the number of terrorists killed by Israeli security forces in each case is not relevant, in my opinion, for two reasons. First, the death of the perpetrators was not one of the intended targets of such operations. Second, the information can be found in the articles about each incident (Savoy Operation and Coastal Road massacre). For this reason, I think that this information should be removed from the article. -- Gabi S. (talk) 18:54, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
 * There is another issue. I find the article about the Tunis Raid very problematic. It includes unsourced information, while the Khalil al-Wazir article's section about the assassination is much more accurate and sourced. Personally, I find it hard to justify a complex military operation just to kill one man, but Israeli leaders are known for making unsensible decisions. The article includes information that is surely unverifiable (such as the five Zodiac boats, or the ECM shield). There are also many questionable details regarding the raid, such as how could Mossad agents leave safely on commercial flights without being detected, why didn't his wife call someone immediately that could at least stop the perpetrators from running away, and how come the guards at the Tunisian President residence didn't notice anything unusual that night. All these details are blessfully missing from the Khalil al-Wazir main article, which rightfully includes only accurate and sourced information.
 * In summary, I suggest changing the Tunis Raid article into a redirect to Khalil al-Wazir. Please let me know what do you think about it.
 * Thanks, -- Gabi S. (talk) 22:05, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Did you notify the WikiProject Palestine members? I didn't notice (or maybe you have non-WP methods of communication). -- Gabi S. (talk) 03:58, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Palestinian Cuisine
And thanks to Funkynusayri who actually uploaded the pictures (I´m a bit "technically challenged" ;-P) Anyway, if you go to the Library of Congress search page, then type in Int[erior] of Arab Christian home ..then you will find the closest I have found of a family at home. (They have two Western visitors sitting at the back; people from the American Colony?) I know you are looking for any history-related inf. for the Palestinian Cuisine article...and I will be on the look-out for any more tidbits..Regards, Huldra (talk) 22:38, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree that it isn´t ideal, but it is the best I could find. And just ask Funky for help: he is very helpful, and knows how to crop the pictures etc. (Just look at his talk-page). Good luck! Huldra (talk) 23:18, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Just a little note: Funky normally answers on his own page; you better "watch" it if you ask him anything, cheers, Huldra (talk) 21:49, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Israel
By all means, Wiki Project Palestine can add Sharon to their list, it makes eminent sense. However, I would request that you do not remove project tags from various personalities and/or places for personal or ideological reasons. Thank you, -- Avi (talk) 05:32, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
 * As I said in the edit history, whether you abhor r applaud the actions of Yassin or Arafat, there is no denial that each had a significant effect on the histories of both the state of Israel and the current Palestinian authority, and both absolutely belong in both projects. Wikispace is cheap, and if related wikiprojects want to keep an eye on the articles, there is no problem in having multiple projects on any article. That is wht we have WikiProjectBannerShell. If you do not wish to identify related articles as WikiProject palestine, that is your perogative (remembering that other members of WikiProject Palestine may disagree with you). However, there is no problem of excess scope; au contraire, the more involved editors there are in an article, the more likely there is to have good discourse as to the nature of the article and thus an enhanced WP:NPOV approach. Bethlehem was a major Jewish city in antiquity, and an important city in the state of Israel from 1948 until now. Placing a WikiProject Israel tag on it no more claims it for Israel as placing a wikiproject Palestine tag claims it for Palestine. All they do is identify articles under the ægis and eyes of the various projects. The last thing we need is to start using wiki as a political soapbox, so as you would like WP:Palestine's choices respected, please respect other wikiprojects. Thank you. -- Avi (talk) 18:04, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Sure, I was just trying to decipher which was the proper WP:Palestine noticeboard to start the discussion when some "real" work popped up [[image:face-smile.svg|25px]]. My suggestion, start the discussion at one project and drop a note at the other so that we don't get split conversations. Thanks! -- Avi (talk) 18:19, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Please correct me if I was wrong in your reasoning here: WT:WikiProject Palestine -- Avi (talk) 18:37, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Bethlehem
Thanks for your comment, it's nice to know someone is reading! --Rbreen (talk) 09:00, 2 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your kind comments about Nabulsi soap. I'll try to expand the history section abit in the coming days. I've gotten busy with Mavia (queen) though now and discovered that the Moses referred to her story doesn't yet have a page (At first I thought he was Moses the Black but a new source says he was distinct from him). So, I need to do something about that first before getting back to Nabulsi soap. But if you want to go ahead and build on it and we co-propose for a GA, that would be great. Thanks for the encouragement and positive thinking.  T i a m u t talk 13:51, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Hableh
Hello. Thank you for the work you have put into Rantis. I was wondering if you could help me with Hableh as well. Thank you once again! Stanley011 (talk) 05:56, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

3RR violation
You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war. Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions in a content dispute within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring, even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing. Please do not repeatedly revert edits, but use the talk page to work towards wording and content that gains a consensus among editors. If necessary, pursue dispute resolution. --Coppertwig (talk) 12:47, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Ibn Shaddad
Thank you very much :) -- R OGER D AVIES  talk 16:45, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Re: Restoration of templates
No problem at all. To be honest, I got tired of it as well, because I was also adding 2 standard bits of information and 2 standard refs to each articles, which took a bit of time. Maybe today I will finish the task for all Negev towns. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 08:38, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Masakhan
Hello. Can you please help me with this article. I believe this is a Palestinian dish so I added it to the Palestinian cuisine category. Please check out the article when you get a chance and review the sources that I have added. Once again, thank you so much for your help. Stanley011 (talk) 23:04, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Arafat again
Hi there, Al Ameer son! The translation is moving forward. Could you please help me understand this part of the Oslo Accords section?

"The following year, Arafat and Rabin were awarded the Nobel Peace Prize, along with Shimon Peres. The Palestinian reaction was mixed. The Rejectionist Front of the PLO allied itself with Islamists in a common opposition against the agreements. It was rejected by also Palestinian refugees in Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan as well as by many Palestinian intellectuals and the local leadership of the Palestinian territories. However, the inhabitants of the territories generally accepted the agreements and Arafat's promise for peace and economic well-being."

Were these reactions to the Nobel Peace Prize award, or the Oslo Accords? It is somewhat unclear to me. The Palestinian reaction was mixed because of the award, but the Rejectionist Front and other Palestinian refugees reacted to the Oslo Accords? Thanks for any help. Cheers, JohnnyGoodfella (talk) 21:23, 8 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Thank you very much! JohnnyGoodfella (talk) 21:53, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Tel Rumeida
Hello. I was wondering if you can help me out with this one. Since it is a Jewish settlement, I am not sure if it should be part of wikiprojectPalestine or not. In any event, the article needs work (and I'm not sure if the source is sufficiently neutral). Please advice/assist. Thanks! Stanley011 (talk) 04:14, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Possibly unfree Image:Saeb-erekat.jpg
An image that you uploaded or altered, Image:Saeb-erekat.jpg, has been listed at Possibly unfree images because its copyright status is disputed. If the image's copyright status cannot be verified, it may be deleted. You may find more information on the image description page. You are welcome to add comments to its entry at if you are interested in it not being deleted. If you have obtained proper permission to use the image then it should be forwarded to permissions-en@wikimedia.org. Stifle (talk) 09:51, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I think you made a mistake. I don't remember uploading any picture(s) of Saeb Erekat. --Al Ameer son (talk) 17:57, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * You did edit one. But you can feel free to ignore this message. Stifle (talk) 18:31, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Jifna
Thank you for working on Jifna. You ask a good question and in my opinion, as Jifna seems to look like a current village as opposed to Ir Ovot which seems to have very few if any residents. Ir Ovot does not seem to be a currently functioning village so I would urge you to use Bethlehem to guide you. As for materials to find, if they are not in the village proper, does something in the region serve the village? For example, with education, are there public or private schools that serve the children in the town? Where is the nearest airport? Are there any festivals or celebrations in the town that are notable? If there is a published book that includes such information, you might be able to use it, listing the ISBN number. Let me know if this helps. Best- Chrisfortier (talk) 03:20, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Yom al-Ard
I understand, but the story clearly states towns such as Sakhnin. Those who live in Sakhnin cannot be defined as refugees, as they are within the borders. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.100.180.70 (talk) 20:12, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Well, I just feel the wording is a little bit off. "The law was used to confiscate lands belonging to the over 750,000 Palestinian refugees, the majority of whom fled the area that became Israel in 1948". The thing is, is that they did not "flee" the land that became Israel, because they fled to other towns within the border of Israel. Do you think it would be acceptable to change it to "The law was used to confiscate lands belonging to the over 750,000 Palestinians, the majority of whom fled their hometowns in 1948". ? Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.100.180.70 (talk) 20:27, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Perfect edit
Thanks. Nishidani (talk) 21:19, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Thank you
hey, 1st of all thanks for the warm welcome :) I used to work only on the Shefa-Amr article but I've been having some free time lately so I can contribute to some of the articles around here. As you have noticed I've started with stubs for red articles, i'll see what i can add later on. anyway tsharafna bm3reftak ;) my name is Basheer BTW. M5Power (talk) 16:54, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Something for you
You deserve this for your even-handed and very civil approach.

Arabic names
Hi there. I was wondering if you could give me arabic names for Modi'in Illit and El'ad which are currently on the List of cities in Israel which is going through a FLC at the moment. Thanks. Flymeoutofhere (talk) 09:16, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

thank you for your help
tahnks again, i will see what i can do about the proposed modifications, will be working on the article real soon regards Eli +  06:30, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Nader al-Masri
Could you help out with this page? Many thanks Stanley011 (talk) 06:49, 16 April 2008 (UTC).

Just Hello
Hey there, just wondering what you've been working on lately...looking for some projects to sink my teeth into :) Lazulilasher (talk) 13:29, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Re Nabulsi soap
Thanks for the note! I'll be hugely busy and have limited internet access over the next couple of weeks, but if I get the chance and no-one else has taken it, I'll pick up the GA review over the weekend - I enjoyed reading the article. All the best, EyeSerene talk 18:58, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Re: Church destruction date
Ah, good then. Yeah, thought it was a little off that it was destroyed, soon rebuilt, then captured and added on to, all in one year. :P Other than the one tiny thing, great article. I do have a question about it, though. What makes a city a "sister city" of Jerusalem? Collaboration in schooling like Pavia, Italy? Baseballbaker23 (talk) 01:34, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Hm, okay. Interesting. Baseballbaker23 (talk) 02:19, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Cheers for the good cheer
Thank you kindly for your lovely note. It's so nice to get such a friendly message like that to start my day. I look forward to seeing Yasser Arafat on the front page someday soon. Cheers! – Scartol  •  Tok  12:18, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Page numbers
Hi Al Ameer Son! Thanks for copying the info from the book you have access to, to my talk page. I was wondering if you could append the page numbers for each paragraph there, so that I can add the information to Nabulsi soap properly cited. Thanks for tracking down such valuable information.  T i a m u t talk 10:21, 23 April 2008 (UTC)


 * One other thing, I just created an article on Fatta that you might be interested in, given your solid work on Palestinian cuisine. You might want to add something about it in the main article or perhaps you have information of your own you would like to add. Cheers.  T i a m u t talk 12:01, 23 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Jeez Al Ameer Son, I feel like such a fool. I didn't follow the link you sent me when I read it was from a book, thinking that it wasn't available online. Now I realize it's the same book by Doumani which we were already using in the article. (Head-slap! Doh.) Sorry for pestering you with the page number info.
 * I'll look over the "Culture" section in the Nablus article right now. Thanks for your help with Nabulsi soap and elsewhere. :)  T i a m u t talk 20:11, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Lebanon
What's happening? I just wanted to let you know that I hadn't forgotten about Beirut. I am just finishing up some work on the Louvre and Pied-Noir, hoping to get both the GA/FA. Hope all is well! Lazulilasher (talk) 14:29, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

An importunate request
Dear Al Ameer son. I gather you are based in the U.S., which is well-stocked with libraries. My own relevant one is in another continent, which I won't be visiting for some months to retrieve information requested (I think improperly) of me, and wondered whether you yourself have the info, or could, over the next months, make a quick check in a library you may be visiting for your own reaons? This is an indecent thing to ask of people, I know, and if you cannot manage it, no problem. It only means it will take me a year to do an edit, instead of a few months. User:Ynhockey at Deir Yassin questions a remark Chomsky made in both his Fatal Triangle on the renaming of streets in the Deir Yassin areas with the names of military units from the Irgun or other forces involved in the destruction of that village. Chomsky refers us to his other work Towards a New Cold War,(1982) p. 465, (footnotes) for the sources to back his statement. I do have a copy, but on the other continent. According to Ynhockey, Israeli maps now register no such names. Unusual. Chomsky is very particular with his sources. Anyway, if in the next several months, an opportunity crosses your way to check that book and page, and send me on a note on the sources Chomsky quotes for this statement (probably Israeli newspapers) I would deeply appreciate it. If it is a bother, my apologies. Finest regards Nishidani (talk) 17:05, 24 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks pal. (Copied from my page) Thanks chaps. I won't pull this one on either of you often (once a decade's just under indecent). If there's anything info wise, or otherwise, where I can appear to afford possible help and save you time, Robert's a close relative here also, so call anytime. Best wishes Nishidani (talk) 18:50, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Ma'amoul.JPG
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Hi Al Ameer son!

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My edit of you private page
I took the liberty of editing your private page, Al_Ameer_son/WikiProject_Palestine, because the syntax for the template shortcut is in the process of being updated. You can find more information at CAT:SHORTFIX. Best wishes. --DRoll (talk) 22:27, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Yasir Arafat
Hello, Al Ameer son! I am finally done with the Norwegian translation of the Yasser Arafat article. It has been fun and challenging, but the effort pays off in the end. One last question from me: In the introduction, it says "In the late 1960s and early 1970s, Fatah faced off with Jordan in a brief civil war". Is civil war a correct word for this struggle? Who stood up against Fatah, except the Jordanian authorities? Cheers, JohnnyGoodfella (talk) 11:38, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
 * No, sorry, I'm not sure. I will let you know if I come up with a better one. JohnnyGoodfella (talk) 15:34, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Micky Rosenfeld
Hi. I was wondering if you can review the AfD page for this article and then offer your advice. Thanks. Stanley011 (talk) 22:47, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Neutrality tag
It was because of the title. In my opinion (and this is only opinion), an incident doesn't count as a massacre unless the killing was intentional. The death and injury of those Palestinian children was tragic, but accidental. What do you think? Czolgolz (talk) 00:00, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah, the eternal battle over words. We can call it what we like, but a bunch of people are still dead.

"The death of one man is a tragedy. The death of a million is a statistic." --Josef Stalin Czolgolz (talk) 00:07, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Opinion required
Asalamualikum. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Battle_of_Yarmouk The strength of armies at battle of yarmuk is disputed. Early sources mentioned the size to be around 200,000-240,000 which are certainly highly exaggrated. Modern estimates are as follows:
 * History of palestine, by Gil and Broido (1997): 100,000.
 * Donner (1981): 100,000.
 * David Chandler: 100,000
 * Kennedy (2006, p. 145): 80,000.
 * Mango, Cyril (2002). The Oxford History of Byzantium. 80,000
 * David nicolle, Yarmouk 636. 50,000
 * Kindersley, 80,000
 * Andre Corvisier 80,000
 * Yarmouk university, department of history, jordan. says; 125,000
 * Agha Ibrahim Akram: 150,000
 * M. Athar Zaidi (Expansion of Islam, Centre for Historical Studies, Jawaharlal Nehru University Dehli): 100,000-120,000
 * Ibn Rais ( Rise of Caliphate from BOĞAZİÇİ UNIVERSITY, department of history, Turkey.): 100,000

Looking at the lower ends, most of the sources places numbers to be around 80,000-100,000. Now what the dispute is, it is that User:Wiki1609 insist that the army size should be placed to be 20,000-25,000 claiming that Kegri and Haldon mentioned this size in there book for byzantine army at yarmuk. Though i have showed upon him that this size was for the muslim armies not for the byzaitne army and they just simply avoided stating any size for byzantine arm,y clearly and thus mentioned that "byzantine outnumbered arabs".... he still insist that leaving all historians behind these two must be preffered over all ! Now third party is invited and it wants a opinion of other users, you are invited to express your views. It must be noted that 5 byzantine expedition armies were sent by heraculis to rollback syria with there won different objects, the retreat of muslim armies with out fight, from all over syria to yarmuk, forced those 5 armies to gather near yarmuk and thus battle of yarmuk was fought. The size of usuall byzantine expedition force use to be 15,000-30,000 in that era. Regards. Mohammad Adil (talk) 09:40, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Barnstar
Thank you Al Ameer son - most generous! --Ian Pitchford (talk) 15:09, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

aqaba
Hi Al Ameer son, Yes, we should definitely merge your article with my aqaba article. Since my article has more "meat" and is updated with the current demolition crisis, I suggest that we take facts from yours and insert them into mine and eventually delete your entry. The most striking discrepency is regarding the population. This is a small village - 45-50 structures - there is no way it has 6,000 people. Your figure must be referring to a much larger area. So we'll figure that out. My sources tell me the situation is frantic there and they're doing everything they possibly can, including contacting US State Dept and Congressional members and media, to save the village. I am following the situation. All the best, SelfEvidentTruths (talk) 03:35, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

what do you think about the Aqaba, West Bank - Aqaba, Jordan controversy?
Just as I expected somebody vandalized the agreed-upon Aqaba Disambiguation Page and now when you search "Aqaba" you only get Jordan. Can you help? I see this as vandalism. Both are spelled the same way in Arabic, both are in the Middle East, and although the Jordanian Aqaba has more population, the one garnering Israeli and international attention now is Aqaba, West Bank. So my proposal that Aqaba (and all other spellings of it) will lead to a Aqaba (Disambiguation page) which I created is the fairest way to deal with this. I've seen this on other WP pages when places have identical names (see, e.g., Silver Spring). Can you help resolve this controversy? SelfEvidentTruths (talk) 22:35, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
 * See my reply to your note on my talkpage. SelfEvidentTruths (talk) 15:18, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Nablus on hold
Hi there: Great work on Nablus. I placed the article on hold, as the only issues raised are extremely minor. The article is very comprehensive and informative. Nice work. Let me know when you're ready. Oh, I also edited the Palestinian muni infobox template so that it now allows the use of a location map, which can be used in any article. I hope that helps you. Lazulilasher (talk) 18:20, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

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Nablus GA
Hey there! I'm just coming around to notify you that I've promoted Nablus to GA. Excellent work. As for FA, my recommendation would be to work on distilling the text, which tends to be difficult for me...All in all, the article has the makings of an FA and I hope you continue to improve it!


 * Congrats to you! It was my pleasure to offer what little I could and I'm happy you were happy with the results. Sad to have to tell you though, that I will not be around for the next little while as much as I would like to be. I took up a job on an intensive short-term contract that will not leave me much time to edit (to heart's delight) here. I'll try to pop in as much as possible, particularly since I would definitely like to be able to help in getting Nablus to FA status. Happy editing!  T i a m u t talk 18:41, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Heh, I'm with you on that one. If only our bosses understood the importance of spending hours of a working day editing articles on Wikipedia. I'll be around if you need any assistance, as well, although I would point out that I am still caught up in Pied-Noir and the Louvre...but hopefully things will get taken care of over there. Lazulilasher (talk) 00:38, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Re:Khutba
You're welcome.

Is there any other important Islam article that needs expansion? I'm currently working on waqf, and plan on working on jumuah, ibadat, tawwakul.

If you something more important in mind, I'd love to work on it.Bless sins (talk) 02:58, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Feel free to help.Bless sins (talk) 04:04, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the corrections
Wow, I really made a lot of mistakes with the Bakri entry, guess I'm tired. Thanks for getting right on them and fixing up 'Operation Defensive Shield" etc., in my addition of Jenin Jenin.LamaLoLeshLa (talk) 06:04, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Arab citizens of Israel
Renaming Arab Israelis to Arab Citizens of Israel has come up again. Want to cast your vote?LamaLoLeshLa (talk) 07:32, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

It's at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2008 May 7. In the beginning, it was moving towards renaming it Arab citizens of Israel.LamaLoLeshLa (talk) 18:48, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Beit Amrin
One more thing - do you think Beit Amrin (between Nablus and Tul Karem) is 'worthy' of note?LamaLoLeshLa (talk) 07:34, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree, all are of note. Just wondered if you knew if it had any particular historical importance in the fights with the British or during the first intifada due to its topography, its location towards the end of a range of hilltops, with a long valley below it? I had heard stories from people there, but didn't know if their insistence on the reputation of the 'fighters of Beit Amrin' was just local pride. Unfortunately, I don;t have much info on the village anymore - I used to have stats on the village but unfortunately they are were all on paper and I am now in another country...LamaLoLeshLa (talk) 18:57, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Jifna village council
Good to hear from you, I'm always pleased to have news from Jifna. I've copyedited the village council paragraph, but there are one or two points I'm not clear about:-
 * Is the head of the council called mayor or chairman? You use both terms. Is it that the mayor is chairman of the council? If so, this should be made clear in the table.
 * The term "vice-precedence" is new to me, and doesn't really have a meaning in English. Is it the local term for vice-chairman? If so I think this should be explained.
 * You say Badil won "most" of the council seats, and that Fatah has "some" support. Is it possible to be more precise?.

Good wishes Brianboulton (talk) 10:46, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Kammaneh and other villages
Are you at all aware of the history of some of these Arab villages in the Galilee and elsewhere such as Kfar Bara (near Kfar Kassem). I am doing some research on them and, for instance with Kammaneh, it is a relatively recent village and I would like to know the origins of the people that live there (i.e Bedouins? Migrants? Refugees?). If you could email me at sfrantzman@hotmail.com, I would appreciate it and we can communicate about this. I live in Jerusalem and would certainly be interested also in your family history, Seth J. Frantzman (talk) 12:58, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

A subject you might interest yourself in, although there is not much on the web as I can tell, is the Hebronite immigration to Jerusalem which has taken place since before 1948 but especially after. If you are interested in clans and families I would think this might be interesting, especially if you are knowledgeable about the demographic changes in Bethlehem.Seth J. Frantzman (talk) 20:55, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Haifa
Thank god someone has added something, anything, about Arab Haifa. I didn't know enough to do it myself. LamaLoLeshLa (talk) 00:47, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Just want to add: your diligent addition of town by town is really very impressive. While of course there is a need to add a great deal more to each entry, it's fantastic that you've gotten things started.LamaLoLeshLa (talk) 21:03, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

can you chip in on the debate about deletion of my article?
Hi Al Ameer, An article that I created - Letter of British Jews on 60th anniversary of Israel has caught the ire of some WPians who want to control what people are allowed to read. Can you join the debate (and get others to join too)? thanks, SelfEvidentTruths (talk) 15:40, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Re: Two towns
There is a town called Mi'ilya, and it is indeed not the same as Ma'alot-Tarshiha. Mi'ilya is a Christian Arab town just west of Tarshiha, on Highway 89. It has a population of 2,700. Profile page. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 15:48, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Kafr Misr
The detail you have is probably right if it's from the municipal site. What I wrote was a direct translation of the Hebrew article (which is probably wrong given your evidence - may have been a misunderstanding as a couple of the other villages were also listed as being founded by the Zoabi family). Please add what you have to the article. пﮟოьεԻ  5  7  11:27, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Ras al-Ein
Thanks for your correction of the capitalization. The source of my error: I carefully copied the spelling as it appeared in Latin letters in the info box of Ras al-Ein in the Hebrew Wikipedia. In light of your correction here, I tried but apparently don't know how to correct the "Name in English" text of that infobox and will have to consult with a senior editor there. Otherwise, based on your correction, I've fixed the template I created here yesterday and also the Misgav Regional Council page. -- Deborahjay (talk) 12:07, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

About your views from the Userpage
I've read your political opinions and i have a few things to tell you about them:
 * You're living in Fantasy-Land if u're thinking that jordanians, lebanese, and syrians will live in harmony in the future. (remember September 1970? or how about Tel al-Zaatar massacre? and thats even without mentioning the israeli factor in all this mess.
 * And as for democracy in the middle east - while i'm hopeful for the future, my Realpolitik side of me forces me to recognize the fact that arabs live in peace only under one condition: A brutal despotic autoritarian regime that doesn't let them to do more than squeak about their daily problems.

And for last i have only this thing to tell u: (taken from google translator) هنا هو اسرائيل ، وانها موجودة لتبقى! (translation to english: Israel is here, and it's here to stay!) --Oren neu dag (talk) 23:56, 4 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Just a small note on the difference between the crusaders and us: while the crusaders only fought for the liberation of the Holy Sepulchre, they didn't really know what to do with it afterwards. So yes they left a few garrison forces here an there, but they didn't really immigrated into the area and transformed it to a christian country. (the historical evidence shows that there was no change for the daily life in palestine at the time and that after the first conquest, life just went on as they were before).
 * And as for the creation of the State of Israel - we did made some things that will be hard to undo them: first we changed the demographical balance between Jews and Arabs, Second we changed the language in which ppl speak in this land from arabic to hebrew, and last but not least, we built new cities and towns all across the land.
 * All that plus the fact that we do have historical connection to the land of Israel only proves the fact that Israel is here, and it's here to stay!.
 * And btw, i'm not offended by the fact that you posted your views on your userpage, on the contrary, i think this only gives us a chance for a dialogue. --Oren neu dag (talk) 13:49, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Tantura massacre
Sorry to take up your time but I need some help with resolving an issue on the Tantura massacre page The Tantura massacre page is getting vandalised by Gilabrand (talk who appears to only want the Katz controversy as the topic and not anything to balance the article. As you seem to be more involved with Palestinian issues maybe you would know how I should go about making a complaint of vandalism against Gilabrand. other wise it will be a edit war issue.Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 09:01, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Weird, I thought that Gilabrand's edits were sensible. So far the only one who supported the massacre claim was Katz himself and the extreme-left historian Pappe. In such a case, the article cannot possibly display their assertions as fact, as it tried to do in the past. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 09:09, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Incorrect Katz never mentioned massacre in his thesis. The details of the massacre are supported by the interview tapes themselves which are still in existence.

If you look at the article I wrote you will find no details which are available of the taped confessions. I had included the Katz controversy where as Gilabrand has omitted any details of the village and merely shortened the article to the katz controversy. You may wish to reduce the sum total of human knowledge but most people prefer to extend learning.

The original article was:- Tantura Massacre.

Tantura (the Peak) lies 35 kilometres south of Haifa and lay within the area designated, by the United Nations, for the Jewish State. The village houses stood on a low limestone hill overlooking the shoreline of 2 small bays. The water was supplied from a well in the eastern part of the village. A road suitable for auto-mobiles led to Haifa Highway. The village was one of the most developed in the region. Fourteen villagers were government employees as Policemen, custom officials and clerks at the Haifa magistrates court. Several had been involved in the Arab Revolt (3 had been killed in a battle with the British close to the village). Shortly after the hostilities broke out the wealthier families fled for the safety of Haifa. Of the 1,650 villages approximately 1,200 remained to get on with their lives making a living from field crops and vegetables, some orchards and large scale fishing.

After the fall of Haifa the Haganah the villages on the slopes of Carmel had been harassing the Jewish traffic on the main road to Haifa.

On the 11 May 1948 Ben-Gurion convened the “Consultancy” the outcome of the meeting is confirmed in a letter to commanders of the Haganah Brigades telling them that the Arab legion's offensive should not distract their troops from the principle tasks:

"'‘the cleansing of Palestine remained the prime objective of Plan Dalet”"

The attention of the commanders of the Alexandroni Brigade was turned to reducing the Mount Carmel pocket. Tantura being on the coast gave the Carmel villages’ access to the outside world and so was chosen as the point to surround the Carmel villages as a part of the Coastal Clearing offensive operation in the beginning of the 1948 Arab-Israeli War.

On the night of 22-23 May 1948 1 week and 1 day after the declaration of Independence of the State of Israel the coastal village of Tantura was attacked and occupied by the Alexandroni Brigade of the Haganah.

The Katz Controversy. The Tantura massacre was described by Theodore Katz in a master's thesis, where he alleged that Israeli forces massacred 200-250 unarmed civilians — mostly young men, allegedly prisoners of war.

However, this claim was disputed by other Israeli historians such as Benny Morris and Yoav Gelber as well as, veterans of the Alexandroni Brigade. Veterans sued Katz for libel, and he recanted his claims. Katz’s mentor and close friend Ilan Pappé continued to defend him. A planned excavation of a claimed grave was mentioned in 2004 but no actual excavation is described.

Post Katz The case was made in the Katz debate that eyewitness statements made some time after the event were no substitute for contemporaneous “Documentary” evidence. However the “Katz interviews” of 20 Palestinians and 20 Israeli participants (some of who recanted there interviews although most didn’t) are still extant and independently verified the details.

But as Eli Shimoni, senior Officer in the Alexandroni Brigade reported to Maariv on 4 February 2001:-

"I have no doubt a massacre took place in Tantura. I did not go out into the streets and shout it about. It is not exactly something to be proud of. But once the affair was publicised, one should tell the truth. After 52 years, the State of Israel is strong and mature enough to confront its past."

Most refugees fled to the nearby town of Fureidis. Ultimately most of the refugees were expelled from the Jewish State territory to territory under Arab League control and only 171 mainly women and children remained in Furaydis.

In the standard practise of de-Arabisation of the new state the name Tantura was destroyed along with the village and the Israeli kibbutz of Nahsholim and Dor were built upon the towns’ land. .

There's nothing unbalanced in that also Gilabrand does not offer any portion to the post Katz work on the Tantura massacreAshley kennedy3 (talk) 09:21, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
 * That's the point, the article was significantly broken - it described Tantura in detail, an info which belongs in the al-Tantura article. Also it used PalestineRemembered.com as a source, which should not be done for anything remotely disputed. So, it's safe to remove almost all the info from the original article, which Gilabrand did. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 10:00, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

The information on Town statistics is not controversial. The article is about the Tantura massacre not the Katz controversy, If you think the Katz controversy needs an article that can be written up.Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 11:29, 6 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I think some of the info on the village history should remain to provide background for the incident. Actually all of the information in the lead is useful. As for the source, I agree Palestine Remembered is not reliable for controversial things like massacres, but the town statistics and facts is surely true, due to it being referenced by other sources. Some of these sources you could find in the website's bibliography and use directly from there such as Sami Hadawi's land and population surveys. --Al Ameer son (talk) 16:11, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Have a look at the "stub" Al-Tantura, it's a bit biggerAshley kennedy3 (talk) 17:01, 10 June 2008 (UTC) I've had a problem with a certain editor trying to cut the article down, but I will persevere. You may have noticed that I have a reasonable knowledge of the UN/League of Nations archives so if you need/want something from that area let me know. I'm going through the 4 MACs first, if I don't get side trackedAshley kennedy3 (talk) 18:52, 10 June 2008 (UTC) Could you give me quick run down on what Menzûl and Kùsr are if you have the time.Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 21:39, 10 June 2008 (UTC) If you have anything on the Tantura islets now would be an excellent time. I don't think there is much more I can add to your article, so it's back to youAshley kennedy3 (talk) 18:22, 11 June 2008 (UTC) Abd ar-Rahman Sa'd ad-Din. Who is he, the Sufi poet? I've been searching my library for him and the net and have absolutely nothing. And nothing on Sheikh al-Majrami. And what about de Merle? If you can dig anything up on them you definitely have a B articleAshley kennedy3 (talk) 15:51, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Kafr Qaddum
Thanks Dude, it was starting to piss me off==

SHAQI P —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shaqip (talk • contribs) 23:05, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Mabahith
Salam, Al Ameer son, as this article is lacking the Arabic spelling, could you please say, how it is written in Arabic characters ? Kind regards, Sarcelles (talk) 15:34, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Jibrin RC
NE of Hebron not NW. N of Bethlehem?Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 01:53, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Crusader period...... BethgibelinAshley kennedy3 (talk) 22:36, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Josephus calls it Ginabrin I've changed it in the text do you want it added to the header board?Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 02:55, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Strictly speaking the crusaders can be split in to various factions, Bethgibelin/Bayt Jibrin was controlled by the Frankish crusaders who were known in Palestine as Latins, as they followed the Latin Liturgy.....Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 09:45, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Line 7 Beth Guvrin should read Ginabrin as per "The Jewish War" Josephus (book IV, verse 447)Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 02:29, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Judges mentions no town just a rock where Sampson was delivered up to the Philistines.Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 02:38, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Bayt Jibrin was referred to by the Israelites as Beit Guvrin.....No bible passage has that name as far as I am aware, it is a false fact. As far as I am aware Beit Guvrin is a modern construct.Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 03:04, 16 June 2008 (UTC) Maresha was the nearest Israelite town across the valley it was an edomite area. Not Judah. Guvrin was a modern construct Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 03:13, 16 June 2008 (UTC) Josh 15 v 44 Mareshah by the King James version Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 03:52, 16 June 2008 (UTC) You have Septimus Severus twice in the Bayt Jibrin piece. He did make it a colony but was that in 200, he visited the area in 202 what evidence for 200 colony? He didn't name the colony the Hellenisation occurred earlier sometime during the herodian period...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 10:24, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Bayt Jibrin? should the History section be brought up. Splitting at this point

Bayt Jibrin, believed to be originally inhabited by the Canaanites, was known as Ginabrin during the First Jewish-Roman War.[5][6] After the Herodian period the town's name was Hellenised to Eleutheropolis. The immediate vicinity is rich in natural and artificial caverns (approximately 800) and as "ḥorim" means "caverns" in Hebrew, and "ḥor" also signifies "free," the Greek name; Eleutheropolis (Gr. EX€vOEparrbXcs, “City of the Free”), may be founded on a confusion of, or a conscious play upon words. Eleutheropolis, identified by E. Robinson with the modern Bayt Jibrin on the basis of biblical references and the writings of Josephus and Eusebius.[16][17]

History

Under the Roman Emperor Septimus Severus, in the Late Roman period (circa 200 A.D.), Eleutheropolis was turned into a Roman colonia (colony). As a major administrative center, Eleutheropolis was expanded to included the land stretching from Ein Gedi on the Dead Sea coast to Gerar and became a bishop's seat.[7] In the Islamic conquest of Palestine by the Rashidun Caliphate, Bayt Jibrin is mentioned as one of ten towns in area conquered by Amr ibn al-A'as. According to later Arab legend, the town serves as the burial place of Tamim Abu Ruqayya a companion of the Islamic prophet Muhammad. It continued to serve as the emporium of nearby towns and villages during its rule by the Arabs and the Crusaders, however it fell into economic decline. After its capture by the Mamluk sultan Baibars, Bayt Jibrin prospered, but during its rule by the Ottoman Turks in 1596 it was forced to pay taxes on several grains, honey and livestock.

By the 19th century, the Egyptian al-'Azaa family took control of Bayt Jibrin and 16 other villages. They waged rebellions against the Ottomans but were eventually exiled or executed. During the British Mandate of Palestine, Bayt Jibrin served as a commercial and service center for the area´s villages. Its population consisted entirely of Muslims. It had two schools, a clinic, a bus stop, and a police station. A weekly market was held there on Tuesdays that attracted customers from neighboring communities.[8] The 1947 UN Partition Plan allotted Bayt Jibrin to the Arab state, but the town was captured from the defending Egyptian army by Israeli forces at the onset of the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. During the Israeli assault on the town, its inhabitants fled to the east. Many of these refugees or their descendants today live in the al-'Azza and Fawwar camps in the southern West Bank.[3] The Jewish kibbutz of Beit Guvrin was established Bayt Jibrin's lands in 1949.

And all the Septimus Severus et al placed into the relevant historical sections???

There appears to be a good size piece up front that belongs in the History section. I know it seems a bit late in the day But the front section is getting heavy as an introduction.Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 13:09, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I do hope I haven't damaged the article. As to the Ottoman period...the whole of Palestine became a backwater with not much occurring.Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 14:46, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Do you need to put a pointer in entomology down to geography on why cavern an free could get confusing?...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 18:08, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Sorry Al Ameer son but Bayt Jibrin is going through a Gilabrand attack at the moment...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 21:18, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Horim is either Hebrew or Aramaic for cave dweller so the deleted foot notes to confirm...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 23:24, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Gilabrand should leave a note to clarify rather than destroy....Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 23:49, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Ptolemy ref should have read.... V (as in five) 16 which I had corrected before you chucked it out leaving the book ref I found.Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 17:31, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

No I had left that to you as the article writer. also see article talk page for "Horim" cavern.Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 18:45, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Bet Guvrin
Please read the English on the world heritage site. They are referring to the modern name. They are not using the ancient name. They then mention that it was initially mentioned by Josephus that means it was the name Josephus gave it. As Bet Guvrin is not in The Wars we can safely know that Bet Guvrin was not the name.Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 21:16, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

I know I kept on getting edit conflict....Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 21:28, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Please also note 68CE Josephus comes before the Severan name of city of the freeAshley kennedy3 (talk) 21:33, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Jeita
I'm glad you liked what the article has become, i'm quite satisfied with it too, nevertheless some sections need further expansion and i need to check overall consistency. i saw and appreciate what you did on the dyk suggestion page, thank you ;)   Eli  +  12:06, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Photo of Jerusalem
I am here just to say thanks because you choose to use one of the pics of Jerusalem which I have taken. --Bienchido (talk) 13:16, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Bayt Jibrin/Beit Guvrin
It's always nice to get feedback. About Bayt Jibrin - any clue what Beit Guvrin is like now?LamaLoLeshLa (talk) 04:11, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Apparently, re:Ashley kennedy3, it's a tourist place for the caverns and archaeological digs.LamaLoLeshLa (talk) 19:54, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Re: Dunams
1 dunam is equal to 1000 m² or 0.001 km². Therefore, 650 dunams are equal to 0.65 km². Cheers, Ynhockey (Talk) 17:09, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

United Nations Palestine Commission
Who requested it? Can they have a look over put UN logo or what ever and copy edit?Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 19:02, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

A wee bit of advice? Re: Blueprint Negev
Hi there, I've been working far too hard over at Blueprint Negev, to maintain the context of the plan. However, some people there (Epson and Canadian monkey) have rightly noted that the critiques section is longer than the planned projects section. I have been trying to edit the section down while preserving the thrust of the critics' arguments. I'm hereby requesting a trustworthy, yet more fresh, pair of eyes. I don't mean to add to your 'work-load' and am not 'expecting' help with editing, but a little feedback, suggestions about points that could get cut without sacrificing too much, would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, LamaLoLeshLa (talk) 06:08, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback! You confirmed a hunch about the JNF background section and justified made some necessary edits (though I should probably cut more still). The main point of contention between myself and two others is the criticism section, which they say is too long (and they're not wrong). I am simply no longer objective enough to know what to cut and what to keep, so if you could do a similar scan and see what pops out at you as redundant -- when you have a second -- it would truly be helpful!(I'm tired of 'arguing' with the others, who are probably right. I just don't want to yield the criticism because I find most of it unusually compelling). LamaLoLeshLa (talk) 20:46, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

I know you've got tons to do elsewhere, so just a note to say, don't worry about giving feedback on this - the article's since b een butchered, but it's probably for the better. Thanks, LamaLoLeshLa (talk) 03:35, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

No, really, it's ok. What can you do? The critiques section was as long as the article. That's not really done. So it had to be butchered. Also, thanks for the heads-up about the PGFTU article - it's really exciting for me to see it here. Hopefully I'll find some time soon to add what I know. LamaLoLeshLa (talk) 08:00, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Bayt Jibrin
Hrmm... do you have any idea what the criteria were for being a "city of excellence"? As it stands, the information just kind of sticks out. Without knowing what "city of excellence" means, the information is lost. It's kind of like saying that Al Ameer son was one of 5 people who won the "Wikipedian of the year award"; we don't know what that means. But yes, by all means, if there's a way to say something a bit more about it, then please do so. My other primary concern is that upon doing a search for Ammianus Marcellinus and cities of excellence, very little information could be found about either... In fact, the first relevant hit was the Wikipedia article, which left me wondering how important this information is. Best, Epicadam (talk) 01:57, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Haha. I'm well aware that Wikipedia is usually the first hit on the list, I meant to say "first and only". :-) If the source has it, then we can go with it. The rewording makes it sounds better, to say 1 of 5 in Palestine, but the truly interesting piece about it is that the city was bigger and better than Jerusalem, so that may want to be re-added. Best, Epicadam (talk) 02:07, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi, Al Ameer son: Just a short note to tell you that I will not be editing for the next two weeks, or more. Or at least: not very much, as I will be away (Plane leaves in 8 hours). Keep a look out for "Template talk:Palestinians‎", will ya? Some serious POV-pushing there. Extremely time-consuming. (also: possible meat-puppetering). Sorry we didn´t finish the Bayt Jibrin article as GA. (Btw, I found quite a bit more about Bayt Jibrin in James Finns : Byeways in Palestine, just search for "Bait Jibreen". Anyway, take care, and keep the fort!  Regards, Huldra (talk) 23:26, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

shulapa
Hello Al Ameer son,

I've read the aritcle about the Palestinian people (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_people) and found it as one of the most informative in what can be a tricky subject to handle (especially in this political situation).

I am writing an article for uni about the the origins of the palestinian nationalty as they are presented by the palestinian themself and wanted to see if I could recieve some help from you on this subject which you seem to have similar interest:

1. In the article is writen "Some modern Palestinians claim ancestral and cultural connections to the ancient populations that dwelled in Palestine, particularly the Canaanites, an issue of contention within the context of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict." - can you direct me into such claims made or citation from politicale/intelctual leader?.

2. In footnote 39 there is a citation reference to "Khalidi, W., 1984, p. 32" - I couldn't find from where was this taken can you help?

3. Can you think about more directions where to find information about where do the palestinians find there national origins which part from the panarbic history - including if do they make the connection to the 1830 revolts against muhamad ali's conscirpts or other revolts against the empire.

I would appriciate all the help you could provide - Eyal Shulapa2002@gmail.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shulapa (talk • contribs) 08:56, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Jordan
Hey! I'm interested in your suggestion about "WikiProject Jordan", just I'm not sure what a WikiProject is exactly. I mainly just write articles so this is new territory for me, but if I had more information I would be glad to help! I love writing about Jordan and I think I could provide some good contributions. Great suggestion! -Ldud (talk) ل داد 12:52, 19 June 2008 (UTC) P.S. I'm American, but I read and write Arabic, notice my signature.

WikiProject Jordan Assessment
Hi. I was on WikiProject Jordan, wanting to assess some articles, when I noticed that there are two different assessment templates, only one of which went back to the official assessed article count on the WikiProject Jordan page (WikiProject_Jordan). The two templates were: and , the latter of which I personally feel is the correct one, and the one that does not link back to the assesed article count. I don't know if you know anything about this, and if you don't could you refer me to someone who does? I would really like to be able to help out assessing articles, but without the proper wiki syntax in our templates, it will never work. Thanks, Bob Amnertiopsis ChitChat Me!  13:11, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, okay. I like your template and think it should be used for all Jordan-related articles. I am from Minnesota, but I'm friends with Ldud as he lived here before moving to Jordan. Anyway, the problem is, when I put your template on a talk page for assessment Talk:Al-Mufti House, it doesn't show up on the little list dealio on WikiProject_Jordan which means it isn't being registered. Maybe we need the guidance of a template-knowing user or admin...unless you know how to fix this problem. Thanks, Bob Amnertiopsis ChitChat Me!  17:17, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I noticed you just worked on Category:Start-Class Jordan-related articles, and I was wondering if maybe instead we should use the categories already made. They're all here, and they just need a little work: Category:Jordan_articles_by_quality. Otherwise, you'll have to amke a whole lot of new ones. What do you think? Bob Amnertiopsis ChitChat Me!  19:33, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, yeah, sorry! Category:Jordan_articles_by_quality I incorrectly formatted the links, as they're categories, not just plain wikilinks. Bob Amnertiopsis ChitChat Me!  19:44, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Co-ords
Many of the Palestinian villages are missing co-ords. Has anyone been assigned to put them in?.....Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 23:31, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

I already have been. Who do you think put them in Bayt Jibrin. How many are there and where is the best list to use. In return al Issawiya on Mount Scopus....Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 23:38, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

It was a rhetorical question. I put them in Bayt Guvrin. Every time I come across a Palestinian town I put them in. I'm a Topographical surveyor/Civil Engineer so it offends me when they aren't there. Now is there a list? And yes please start al Issawiya as a return...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 23:48, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Found it, am on it.....Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 23:57, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

City? Is this the face of someone who is bothered by city status?:)I'm just making sure they are on the Map. As the last census was 1997 they could all be cities.....Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 21:43, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Tulkarm towns done; on to Nablus....I keep working through, there are quite a lot of co-ords and towns missing...It'll take a while, but if you could do a check on names in Arabic etc every so often...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 22:19, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

I've knocked up a Template:Qalqilya Governorate. You may want to add a few towns/villages to expand the Governorate, that's add to the template not as in create more towns.....Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 01:11, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for reacting so quickly to give extra workload. :)...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 12:55, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

I've knocked up a Template:Jenin Governorate. You may want to add/check a few towns/villages to expand/add check spelling etc for the Governorate. ‎...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 14:58, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Anyone know why the Map to the global co-ords went down?....Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 19:49, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Second opinion
Yes, typically any changes to a GAN status renews the article's standing. Since I had edited so much of the article, I thought it would be appropriate to get another editor's take on the article to exclude any implication of impropriety. Hopefully everything will be resolved soon so that a final GA review can be undertaken. Best, epicAdam (talk) 06:17, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Question about Arabic
I have a small request: could you please write out in Arabic the text on page 16 (PDF page 45) of this document? It's for the article Beit Jala reprisal raid. I have already done this, but I don't actually know Arabic, only the letters, so I'm sure I have many mistakes (so maybe it's easier for you to correct them): "في ٤/١٢/١٩٥١ قتل اشخاص من سكان (بيت جالا) فتاة يهودية با لقرن من (بايت وغان) بعد ان اقترفوا حقها حرية لا تغتفر إن ما قمنا به الأن هو جزاد هذه الجرية الشنعاء وان نسكت المجرفين ففي جعبتنا دائًا محفًا لهم فليعتر العتبرون"

Thanks in advance! -- Ynhockey (Talk) 20:40, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Re: Favor for Ynhockey
Here it is:

في 4\12\1951 قتل اشخاص من بلدة (بيت جالا) فتاة يهودية بالقرب من (بايت وغان) بعد ان اقترفوا بحقها جريمة لا تغتفر

إن ما قمنا به الآن هو جزاء هذه الجريمة الشنعاء ولن نسكت للمجرمين ففي جعبتنا دائماً سهاماً لهم

فليعتبر المعتبرون

Fjmustak (talk) 21:19, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Ynhockey (Talk) 21:29, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Nablus
It is indeed Shechem (שכם) on Hebrew language maps etc, though it would be better transliterated as Shekhem. I think it might be worthwhile, if not for the Jewish connection (which admittedly seems fairly minor), but for the Samaritan one (as they speak Hebrew). пﮟოьεԻ  5  7  15:13, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
 * PS - when you start new articles on towns or cities, it's best to use XXX, West Bank than XXX (town), as the prior version is preferred for disambiguating places. Cheers, пﮟოьεԻ   5  7  15:15, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Have done - I hadn't noticed she'd done it - I'd only just begun to move a few! пﮟოьεԻ   5  7  15:34, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Towns/Villages
All the town redirects were already labelled as doubles already. I'll be fixing all the links...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 16:05, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

All done...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 16:45, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Al Ameer..in topography you never follow with (Town) or (Village) as noting as town/village can change,never put a coma in a title. Use the Governorate not West Bank and I've change it anyway. Leave it as it is. Oh and by the way I'm male, not a miss...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 16:52, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Many of the towns needed to be dis-ambiguous due to clash with other articles...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 17:11, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

All the towns should be referred to Governorates not to a none administrative geographical feature such as the west bank....Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 19:42, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I can't find the policy, but it the comma is definitely used instead of brackets. On second thoughts, it may well be better to use Governates as DABs as it is common practice to use lower administrative divisions (e.g. Sudbury, Suffolk rather than Sudbury, United Kingdom). пﮟოьεԻ   5  7  20:19, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Category split
Since in the past months and just recently articles on Palestinian localities in the West Bank have risen considerably, I think we should finally split the Category:Towns and villages in the West Bank into Municipalities in the West Bank (Beit Ummar, Aqraba, Deir al-Ghusun, Tammun, etc.) and Village councils in the West Bank (Jifna, Einabus, Deir al-Hatab, Tayasir, etc.). How would we get all of this sorted? --Al Ameer son (talk) 17:40, 24 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't really have an opinion on this. But I looked up the category tree to see what others are doing. Please see Category:Settlements by country. There may be other upper categories too. I don't know. I have always been confused by how one classifies a settlement as a city, town, and village. --Timeshifter (talk) 12:12, 25 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I took a look at the categories and most are organized as "Cities in XXX", "Towns in XXX" and "Villages in XXX". Israel replaces the "Towns" portion with "Local councils". For Palestinian localities, I think it's easiest and best to use the "Cities, towns and villages" cat. So we should split the "Towns and villages in the West Bank" to "Category:Towns in the West Bank" and "Category:Villages in the West Bank". What do you think? --Al Ameer son (talk) 14:06, 25 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I looked at some categories at random:
 * Category:Cities, towns and villages in Israel
 * Category:Settlements in Portugal
 * Category:Settlements in Bulgaria
 * Category:Settlements in Jordan
 * Category:Settlements in Egypt


 * It seems that when one digs down into the subcategories of each one there are all kinds of different subdivisions used. So I am happy with whatever you are happy with. :) --Timeshifter (talk) 14:31, 25 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Well at first I wanted to use Cities, Municipalities and Village councils but the former two are intertwined. It's best just to use the Cities, Towns and Villages format. Should we request a split? By the way if you would like I could list all of the Palestinian localities that are not villages so when a cat-bot needs to edit the cats in the article it would know what's a village and what's a town. --Al Ameer son (talk) 14:42, 25 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't think the settlement divisions have an agreed-upon hierarchy. See Settlement Hierarchy. --Timeshifter (talk) 16:40, 25 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually the PNA's Ministry of Local Government states that cities ("centers of governorates") have populations over 10,000 and councils of 15 members, municipalities B have populations of 8,000-10,000 and councils of 13 members, municipalities C have populations of 4,000-8,000 and councils of 11 members, municipalities D ("village councils") have populations of 1,000-4,000 and councils of 7-9 members. Look at the table in this site under the title of Municipal Organization in the PNA in 2000. --Al Ameer son (talk) 03:04, 26 June 2008 (UTC)


 * It is great to have a breakdown like this. I suggest using something like their naming system for the subcategories:
 * Municipalities A (10,000+)
 * Municipalities B (8,000+)
 * Municipalities C (4,000-8,000)
 * Municipalities D (1,000-4,000)


 * The parentheses are OK too. They can be used in category names. And/or you can put that info in the introduction of the subcategory. If one looks at the subcategories of Category:Settlements by country one sees all kinds of names used. So Municipalities A, B, C, and D are fine too.


 * I don't know what to call "Local Development Committees A and B." --Timeshifter (talk) 09:37, 26 June 2008 (UTC)


 * If you look at the far right side of that same chart you will see that in parentheses Municipalities D are called "village councils" (Jifna, Qarawat Bani Hassan) and Municipalities A are called "center of governorates" aka cities (Nablus, Ramallah, Khan Yunis). So instead of using Muns A or D for a subcat name we could use "Cities" and "Village councils". As for Muns B and C the name in parentheses is not very blunt, so I think it's safe we just use "Municipalities" for a subcat name to cover those two types of localities (Yabad, Aqraba, Abasan al-Kabera). --Al Ameer son (talk) 18:15, 26 June 2008 (UTC)


 * But that refers to the council, not the town. It is under the column "Number of Council members."
 * How about:

Cities -(10,000+) Towns --(4,000-10,000) Villages ---(-4,000)


 * The names are common, and so people will not be confused. You mentioned this naming breakdown higher up. The info in parentheses would be in the introduction of the categories, and not in the category name. In English municipalities is not a common word. It seems to be used more as a legal or administrative term. The settlement subcategories for Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, and Israel use "cities, towns, and villages" also. --Timeshifter (talk) 18:55, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

I completely agree with your suggestion. Let's just do that then. However, the population in parentheses doesn't need to be included in the cat. If all is agreed, how would we make the change (we need a bot to recategorize all of the articles which number almost 250). --Al Ameer son (talk) 19:08, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Sounds good. Some help from someone with a bot would have to be requested. Maybe they could use a list you presented as a guide for the bot. I don't know who to contact though. The "see also" list at the bottom of Bot policy may be helpful. --Timeshifter (talk) 19:17, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Shouldn't we first rename the current category to Category:Towns in the West Bank and make a new one for Category:Villages in the West Bank? As for the list, I could make it anytime. --Al Ameer son (talk) 19:28, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
 * One can't rename categories. I think only an admin can do that. One can create the 2 new categories, and start moving stuff to them. It might be easier to start a CFD, and at its conclusion let the admins change the name. Then only the villages have to be moved (hopefully with the help of a bot). The CFD (categories for discussion) might create more consensus on the name change too. See Categories for discussion. --Timeshifter (talk) 19:41, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, I know only admins could do it after a CfD. I like what you're suggesting that we go ahead and create a new called Villages in the West Bank and nominate the current one for a name change. I'll start the new cat now and will make the list but when we get a bot. --Al Ameer son (talk) 19:48, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, sounds good. People can start moving villages to that category now if they want to. --Timeshifter (talk) 20:23, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I finished the Ramallah and al-Bireh Governorate, Jericho Governorate, Tubas Governorate, Hebron Governorate and the governorates of the Gaza Strip (started Category:Villages in the Gaza Strip. We still got a crap-load more villages in the Nablus Governorate, Qalqilya Governorate, Tulkarm Governorate, Jenin Governorate, Bethlehem Governorate, Salfit Governorate and Jerusalem Governorate. We don't need a bot, we'll just take care of it ourselves. --Al Ameer son (talk) 22:38, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Question: Should we just add Local Development Committees like al-Fasayil, Deir Razih and Jab'a to the Villages category? --Al Ameer son (talk) 03:09, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, I think that would be a good idea. --Timeshifter (talk) 14:51, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Bayt Jibrin/Beit Guvrin
No UNESCO does not say that the name was Beit Guvrin. The style of the writing has used "Beit Guvrin" where it is known that other names were being used. In much the same way that we have used Bayt Jibrin in the article.... Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 12:18, 26 June 2008 (UTC)


 * 1. Look at the style of writing. Note when UNESCO use Josephus and at that time UNESCO use Beit Guvrin, yet we know Josephus uses Betaris, same with Baitogarba and Ptolemy... We also know that Bet Govrin, Beit Guvrin is not found in the bible... That leaves later Talmudic writings from 200CE or 500CE way past the time that Josephus and Ptolemy wrote about Bayt Jibrin.


 * 2.What does the Talmud say about Bayt Jibrin? Nobody has given a reference to the Talmud. Therefore why say "indicating a revival of the Jewish community around that time".?... on what evidence is that based? The Talmud may say that the synagogue had to close due to lack of Jews in Bayt Jibrin... Is it the 3rd Century Talmud or the 6th century Talmud, if it is the 6th Century Talmud the mention of Bayt Jibrin could be to the Plague that passed through Palestine wiping out 40% of the population?


 * 3. UNESCO only uses two names, the modern name and Mareshah. Why doesn't UNESCO refer to any other name? The style of writing is for raising awareness/profile of Beit Guvrin as it is being considered for WHS status. In other words it is a quick bit of advertising, it gives no references.....Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 22:14, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Lost Villages
Why are we suddenly losing towns villages?Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 23:35, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

All clear now. The village/town split has started..... Where is the split? munc or mund?...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 23:40, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Beit Furik Nablus Governorate, pop 10.4k. muna? That makes it a city, yet it is under town?....Is there a reason why it should not be moved up to city status?...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 00:31, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Sa'ir
Meaning of Sa'ir. Is it hairy/lesser or flaming fire?...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 11:26, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Beit Jala reprisal raid
As the Israeli line is that it was in reprisal for the tittle is an accurate reflection of facts and clearly NPOV. It is POV to call it anything else....Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 09:21, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Hey

 * Long time no see bro. How have you been? I hope you've been well:-) I myself am doing well;-) I've been doing some work on the Al-Aqsa Mosque article, and I would like to see it reach GA status soon. Someones helping me on it, and a regular GA reviewer is going to make suggestions on what to change. I plan to work on other Palestine-related articles in the future, so you won't be the only person improving Palestine-related articles anymore;-) I hope you enjoy your time in Galilee, and I hope nothing bad happens while you're their. Have a nice day!--SJP Chat  00:31, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Help!
Hi Al Ameer son,

I am a doctoral student at Harvard Business School interested in doing a project on Wikipedia. I know a major source of insight and knowledge will come from past and present ‘Wikipedians.' I'd especially like to talk to people like you, who have contributed meaningful and important articles.

If you have any time to answer a few questions I have, I would really appreciate it. Please do get in touch with me via email through my user page (Tiona75). Thanks!

Tiona75 (talk) 15:10, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

The Arabs image
Hope you have noticed a user, without discussion or concensus created a new image for tha Arabs page. He started a talk about it on the talk page. As someone who took part in creating the original image and reaching the concensus, please state your view their. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.177.164.24 (talk) 21:24, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

..and welcome back to you!
Hi, hope you had a nice break, I see that you are already uploading pictures, great! Actually, I just made an account over at commons myself; the name "Huldra" was taken (to my great annoyance :-..so  I´m calling myself TheRealHuldra  instead ;-) And I have gotten hold of a small collection of old postcards  from Palestine, which I am uploading (eventually). I have started here. I am especially happy over the Karimeh Abbud postcard, which I have already put into her article (But it should perhaps be more prominent? Feel free to juggle it around.) I also have gotten hold of one of the publications of Tawfiq Canaan; I had hoped to upload the title-page to the article...but I just messed up. Can you manage to do it? I am not very good at these technical issues.

As for Bayt Jibrin: the issue they are edit-warring about is one that I do not know that much about. My interest in the place started with the Costumes section..and the 19 cent. history. But it seems to have become more quiet now? The problem is: I suspect it will flare up again the moment I nominate it for GA-review ... Oh well. Take care, oh, and how we miss Tiamut! Hope she will be pleased about how some of her articles have expanded, though, and I uploaded the pictures of the Nazareth ladies for her! Regards, Huldra (talk) 21:23, 11 August 2008 (UTC)


 * The Canaan link is: http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Image:Canaan.0.jpg. It is not *that* exciting, but the Canaan article (as it is now) is really lacking photos, so almost anything is an improvement... As for the Abbud picture, this website say that she published her postcard-series in 1925. Perhaps that should be added to the article.
 * Among the postcards are some old of "Lazarus grave" in Bethany. Now, that is quite fun: if you have read Said Aburish: Children of Bethany: The Story of a Palestinian Family, he tells the whole story about his grandfather founding the tourism-industry in Bethany around what was supposedly the "grave of Lazarus". ..and he tells about how postcards was a part of this industry..
 * Anyway, about Bayt Jibrin: I think my further work there will be indirect: I will try to get the Finn, Tristram and the le Strange books onto gutenberg.org. I own some old copies, where the copyright has expired, and there is such a lot of information there which could be useful. Then we could point directly to the pages in these books, where all the details are. Now *that* would be nice, methinks....  .Huldra (talk) 22:41, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the Canaan picture! It have no idea about what I did wrong. And I only knew Burchard because I have been to Petra ..then you *do* learn about him. And yes, Jifna: I have uploaded the whole booklet to commons in .jpg files. Take a look her: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Tawfiq_Canaan
 * I have also started to transcribe it into text, on my commons-page: (just do a search for "Jifna"). The page you are looking for is p.12: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Canaan.12.jpg (click on the page again to get a closer look). There is a *lot* of information in this book! I was going to add some more to the Silwan article, see my note on the talk-page. Huldra (talk) 06:26, 12 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks to both you and Huldra for your work in adding images to those articles. I'm not fully back yet, just popping in to write an article on Yalo, which you may want to take a look at. If I manage to get it into good shape soon, I'll be nominating it for a DYK before disappearing again for a bit. Though I'll be back soon (I hope). My work is starting to wind down though it will be back again after a spell too. Love to tell you more about it, but it would reveal too much about my real life identity I'm afraid, and I'm not quite ready to share that just yet. Anyway, thanks again and I hope you had a great time when you were here (i.e. in our not so holy land:).  T i a m u t talk 12:11, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Hi again! Thanks for the great new pictures from Bayt Jibrin! I found that a Thomson-book from 1860 actually had two pictures (engravings) from Bayt Jibrin! See the talk-page for links. Though they are available on google, I don´t think we can use those pictures for WP. Sooo, I have ordered the book, (hopefully the right version), and will upload the pictures as soon as it arrives. I don´t feel like nominating it for GA before then.

Regarding your Monastery of Temptation: is that the monastery pictured ? If so, I guess we should add the picture.. And please take a look at the pictures that I have uploaded to commons here. Especially the two for the "Feast of St. Elias" on July. 20th. on Mount Carmel, and. I confess: I know absolutely nothing about the "Feast of St. Elias". Do you know anything? Anyway, take care, Huldra (talk) 16:44, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Your question at Editor assistance/Requests
Hi there, I have responded to your question at Editor assistance/Requests, basically recommending a request for comment. Regards, -- Beloved Freak  10:25, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Image:Arafat & Yassin 1997.jpg listed for deletion
An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, Image:Arafat & Yassin 1997.jpg, has been listed at Images and media for deletion. Please see the to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Damiens .rf 19:26, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Re: Battles of the Kinarot Valley
Thanks for the kind words! Which fact do you have in mind? -- Ynhockey (Talk) 08:54, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
 * My last (and only) DYK was actually nominated by someone else and I'm not really someone who cares about DYK, but you're right it would suck to miss an opportunity because sadly I rarely create well-researched articles (lack of time). I'll think of something. Cheers, Ynhockey (Talk) 16:52, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Category: Palestinian Christian localities
Hi Al Ameer son! I am concerned that you added the category of Palestinian Christian localities to Israeli towns, which are of course not Palestinian. What was your reasoning for this? -- Ynhockey (Talk) 18:00, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
 * That would be fine, although I think you have been mislead overall (no offense meant). It is well-known that Christian Arab-Israelis identify very little with Palestinians, certainly much less than Muslim Arab-Israelis. Most Arab-Israelis volunteering for the IDF are in fact Christian Arabs (excluding special groups like Druze, Circassians and Bedouins). I think that labelling them as Palestinians in any way is not only misleading and incorrect, but likely also insults the thousands of Christian Arab-Israelis who support the Palestinian cause about as much as Rabbi Kahana did. On a side note, this does not mean that it's correct to label Muslim Arab-Israelis as Palestinians either. But it's a bit different because all the notable anti-Israeli and antisemitic Israeli Arabs are Muslim. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 18:40, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Al-Aqsa Mosque
Hi, Al Ameer son, I wrote something regarding your revert of some material in the "construction" part of the article on the article's TALK page. Maybe you would respond to it if you get a moment? Thanks. Tundrabuggy (talk) 12:04, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Palestine
Keep up the good work! The Bald One     White cat 22:13, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

DYK
Thank you for your contributions! - Mailer Diablo 12:03, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Hey you! If you have some time to take a look at Anasartha (nom for DYK), I would deeply appreciate it. I'm not so up on how to present metric information here and am a little pressed for time. I'll try to look it up on my own, but considering your experience in making conversions for Good articles elswhere (e.g. Nablus and Nabulsi soap), I thought I'd call upon your powers for this. Congrats on your latest DYK by the way.  T i a m u t talk 09:31, 6 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for helping with Anasartha and Jabel Mukaber. I think the tag can be lifted there (though we should add stuff on coexistence efforts since there were a lot that are not mentioned now to gie way only for the discussion of iolent acts). I'll try to do that soon and I'll look at Al-Aqsa Mosque to see if I can add anything to the prose there. Great work as always Al Ameer Son.  T i a m u t talk 09:54, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

List of newspapers in Israel
Could you please verify/confirm the Arabic newspapers in List of newspapers in Israel and Template:Newspapers of Israel? --Shuki (talk) 13:22, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not very informed on Israeli-Arab newspapers, all I know of is Kul al-Arab, al-Ittihad and I heard of an Arabesque Press based in Haifa. --Al Ameer son (talk) 02:39, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, thanks. --Shuki (talk) 22:15, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Ameer, my son, kifal halak
Ameer Kifak Halak! Kif Enta? Mabsu't? Quesh? El-homdillilah

Ameer, Could you give me a picture of the Jerusaqlem forest, which conceils arab village ruins? I was editing this Yosef Weitz yeaterday evening, and wanted to place an image, where the text talks about the forest. I could find another forest, but for the sake of autencity it is best if it is the right one. Also, I notice that the hebrew version of the page have an image of the culprit himself, and I tried to copy the imagefile-name an insert it, but it seems not to be possible. Is it normal that the hebrews keep pictures like these to themselves? I agree with them then, that it would not exactly be a PR triumf for them to have his image circulated to a wider audience. Yours sincerely Nick Finnsbury (talk) 17:10, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Pictures of Forests
Du you recognise anything on these pictures? Which of the pictures are closest to illustrate 'overgrown depopulated and destroyd villages' that we wish to document? Nick Finnsbury (talk) 06:47, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

beit jalla
Hi, al-Ameer. I checked the sources (look at 7 & 8, for example) and there is a total mix-up there. Pruning down nonsense is always good, but not if the article and footnotes don't mesh.--Gilabrand (talk) 16:20, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

pictures
A pleasure. Btw, I have uploaded different versions to the commons (I´m still exploring the possibilities of my new scanner ;-P), so just choose which one you like. Of course, these pictures taken from these books are very pale copies compared to the originals. But to get those, you would have to buy the prints, like this Huldra (talk) 23:52, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Looks good
Ijnisinya looks good. I tried looking for other books that mention that village and found three, but they are not available for browsing on google, and I don't have access to any kind of library here in Nazareth. If I do find anything, I'll be sure to add to it, but you should be proud of what you have so far and I hope you've nominated it for DYK. Good work.  T i a m u t talk 12:56, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

DYK: September 20, 2008
--Maxim ( ☎ )  00:35, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Nick
Dear Al Ameer son. You may well not agree with my comments on Nick Finnsbury's page, but I think he is unaware that this provocative off-topic attack on Wiki administrators and other wiki editors (the latter pressing for deletion) is extremely stupid, as well as in poor taste. He won't listen to me. Perhaps a word from you might prod him to wake up to the fact he is undoing his own handiwork. Regards Nishidani (talk) 14:41, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry for the bother this entailed. Actually, whatever the truth of the matter, the behaviour seems to indicate a remarkably good imitation of what an agent provocateur does. I still think there should be no haste in pressing for deletion, until the differences are clarified by a grid. One might just end up throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I haven't followed the issue closely though. Best regards.Nishidani (talk) 17:44, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
 * This talk is completely incomprehensible and over-intellectual. I am from Denmark. But you can still remoce that deletemark that you have placed at the relevant page, as I understand (so Ameer says) that you and I indeed share some views about the Palestine situation. Therefore I am baffled that you and Ameer support a representative from the palestinians strategic enemy, the curent master of the holy land, when he wants to delete templates, that probably spell out more truth that his ears are capable of dealing with. Nick Finnsbury (talk) 17:56, 20 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Neither Ameer son nor myself 'support' Ynhockey. We support his attention to the rules, and any edit, from the Antipodes to Aarhus which conforms to the rules governing the introduction of quality material into an encyclopedia which, by its own guidelines, strives for a neutral point of view. If you check the rules, wiki is not concerned with the truth but with things like verifiability and quality of source material. You're trying to play chess with a full board on the white side, while depriving the black of its rooks. There, that's not too 'intellectual', I hope.Nishidani (talk) 19:19, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Al Ameer what the hell do you think you are doing?
I have noticed for some time, that you are not the typical palestinian. That have been confirmed today! I expected you to support me, but instead you side with the masters and aggressors of the holy land!!! How can one explain that? don't ask me - but look into your own soul, Ameer.

However, as long as no credible arguments are broufgt forward as to whether to delete the template, that I have spent perhaps 72 hours refining, the ones that wish (for some strange reason) to delete it, will have a hard time working for them. It is based on the old template Template:Infobox Former Arab villages in Palestine, with 15 additions by me - all with the purpose of making it better and more descriptive of what went on 3 score years ago.

That you opposes it, Ameer, must be referred to some strange inter-israeli-palestinian working, that we true wikipedians cannot - and should not - go into - as you are both part of the conflict. The task for us honest people is to describe - as fair as possible - what went on those 3 score years ago, and that is what I have contributed with. You will never get away with acting against this Grans purpose, that all rigt-minded people holds.Nick Finnsbury (talk) 16:27, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

You have comitted a serious strategic mistake
Can't you see it? What was the idea of siding with a representative for the enemy? Why do you think tha6t he want to delete my template? Could it be that it is because it reveils some unpleasant facts?`I must say Ameer, I sometimes find you naive. But you can stille make it good again, by removing your 'delete'-stamp on the relevant page. I could understand that you did not aggree with me, but to go against me in this way, and siding with the strategic enemy - there is really no excuse for it. But as I said, you can still make it good again by removing that 'delete''-stamp - and so at least remain neutral in this case. Perhaps it is your 'vote' that will determine that it is deleted. For what? Why? Why give the (strategic) enemy that?. We could dicuss certain issues among ourselves, but when a representative of the (strategic) enemy emerges with demaqnds of deletion, we must naturally stick together. I thought that was obvious. Nick Finnsbury (talk) 17:24, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Ameer, havent you noticed that the first 5 pages in Akko district also is in danish
I am writing these pages simultaneously, and it is my goal to make articles for all the 107 pages, that exists in english about depopulated palestinian villages. And I could expand to Norway and Sweden as well. And you can be sure, that the template will survive on the danish pages, even if modified here. But I would not have thought that the English wikipedia would modify anything, but off caurse we are dealing with all kinds of individuals, from all over the world. But the israelites MUST be restricted when they want to edit anything to do with palestinians. It is none of their business, and they better be large! In victory magnimonious, as Churchill said. But perhaps they are not sure they wil win? Yours Nick Finnsbury (talk) 18:22, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Zaki_Nusseibeh and WikiProject Palestine
Why did you add Zaki_Nusseibeh to WikiProject Palestine when he's the entire article is about his career in the UAE? I see he's from Palestine originally, but is that relevant? &#8212;Largo Plazo (talk) 03:26, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Al-Aqsa Mosque:On hold
Salam, It's very good article and there are only few problems which should be solved. Thanks.-- Seyyed(t-c) 07:28, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Bayt Jibrin
Betaris is not the name given to Bayt Jibrin by Josephus. Josephus gives it as Marissa in the Antiquities not Jewish wars (Josephus Antiquities 12, 8, 6)....

Antiquities of the Jews - Book XII

CONTAINING THE INTERVAL OF A HUNDRED AND SEVENTY YEARS. FROM THE DEATH OF ALEXANDER THE GREAT TO THE DEATH OF JUDAS MACCABEUS.

CHAPTER 8.

HOW JUDAS SUBDUED THE NATIONS ROUND ABOUT; AND HOW SIMON BEAT THE PEOPLE OF TYRE AND PTOLEMAIS; AND HOW JUDAS OVERCAME TIMOTHEUS, AND FORCED HIM TO FLY AWAY, AND DID MANY OTHER THINGS AFTER JOSEPH AND AZARIAS HAD BEEN BEATEN

6. But as to Joseph, the son of Zacharias, and Azarias, whom Judas left generals [of the rest of his forces] at the same time when Simon was in Galilee, fighting against the people of Ptolemais, and Judas himself, and his brother Jonathan, were in the land of Gilead, did these men also affect the glory of being courageous generals in war, in order whereto they took the army that was under their command, and came to Jamnia. There Gorgias, the general of the forces of Jamnia, met them; and upon joining battle with him, they lost two thousand of their army, (22) and fled away, and were pursued to the very borders of Judea. And this misfortune befell them by their disobedience to what injunctions Judas had given them, not to fight with any one before his return. For besides the rest of Judas's sagacious counsels, one may well wonder at this concerning the misfortune that befell the forces commanded by Joseph and Azarias, which he understood would happen, if they broke any of the injunctions he had given them. But Judas and his brethren did not leave off fighting with the Idumeans, but pressed upon them on all sides, and took from them the city of Hebron, and demolished all its fortifications, and set all its towers on fire, and burnt the country of the foreigners, and the city Marissa. They came also to Ashdod, and took it, and laid it waste, and took away a great deal of the spoils and prey that were in it, and returned to Judea.

Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 19:00, 22 September 2008 (UTC) Nationmaster is a wiki clone and not a source. Read his conclusions according to Josephus Marrisa and Betaris but nowhere is it Beit Guvrin pre Roman. page 65 & 66 the use of Beit Gubrin is sassanid period. Go through Robinson and you will find Beth Guvrin was only used after betogabra, Betogabra was used in tandem with Eleutheropolis (not as a suburb but as the local name), then from the Talmud 3rd or 4th C comes beth Gubrin.....again nowhere is Beit Guvrin pre roman....with the use of Beit Guvrin ending in 796 with the complete destruction, turned into a desert...whereas you have Beit Guvrin as though it is the pre-history name....with edomites speaking Hebrew????????..Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 22:20, 22 September 2008 (UTC) No I'm talking of Beit Guvrin....being none pre-roman... that is the entymology is incorrect in placing it first...Robinson uses Gath, Mareshah, Marrisa, Betaris, Betogabra, Eleutheropolis and Betogabra...later..Eleutheropolis and beth Gubrin/Beit Guvrin then Bayt Jibrin then the crusaders with Bethgibelin reverting to Bayt Jibrin (although as the Franks intermarried and intermixed quite readily, one could suppose bayt Jibrin carrying straight through in Arabic speaking quarters)....Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 22:45, 22 September 2008 (UTC) 1. Betaris is Josephus, 2. Betogabra is the Ptolemy ref. 3. Eleutheropolis is Robinson, 4. Beit Guvrin is the Talmud ref..... with 5. Jean Richard for the crusaders bethgibelin....6. Bayt Jibril ....finally 7. Bayt Jibrin with a note saying that Betogabra and Beit Guvrin were in use along with Eleutheropolis up to 796 or there abouts what the transition of the local name from Betogabra to Beth Gubrin was I haven't found out...But the translation of betogabra is House of gabriel same as Bayt Jibril....meaning someone translated the Greek to arabic...and the only people to have the ability and the need to do that would have been the eastern orthodox christians..(Benjamin of Tudela's visit in circa 1165 found only 3 Jews in Beit Jibrin)...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 23:31, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Follow up on etymology of Gath reference......Goliath of Gath...Beit Guvrin "strong man"?....Robinson does give a start name for Bayt Jibrin as Gath......Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 23:39, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

As Alexander the Great had started off the Helenisation of the Levant and Betogabra is the greek one could suppose that...however as the immediate area has had continuous habitation until someone digs up the Gath foundations to establish exactly where which piece of history gets which tag on the ground...Gath, Mareshah, Marissa, Betaris, Betogabra etc etc. are all basically the same place within close walking distance. The Hospitalers castle is not directly in Bayt Jibrin but is on the foundations of Eleutheropolis (used through the Byzantine period)...the first known name after Marissa is Betaris then came Betogabra which was during the Roman period (Pompey to Severus). Beit Guvrin did not get used until the sassanid period some time after the Byzantium Roman period. The pre roman names were Gath, Mareshah, Marissa....Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 00:35, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Marissa ended was destroyed by the Macabees...100 years later Pompey finds a small village of Betaris...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 00:55, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Marissa survived as a declining "city" until 40 BCE when it was destroyed by the Parthians and that is when Betaris takes over (40 BCE being in Pompey's time as in Roman). You can start with Gath, Mareshah, Marissa, (pre-Roman) or you can start with Betaris from the start of the Roman era......Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 01:25, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Ameer, new colours on the template
Now it is the same design as the infobox same colours and same font. And I personally think it is clever spin to choose "Palestine Remembered", as Icehockey don't like it, and it makes sence to have the word Palestine next to the flag. I would say, give it a chance and see if you will not get to like it over time. Indeed we could christen all pages that deal with Palestine of old, that (by designing an emblem), or just put this template in at the bottom, or both. Yours sincerely Nick Finnsbury (talk) 17:54, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Personally, I don't believe the Palestinian flag should be included in the template since it was introduced in the 60s by the PLO and was not the flag of Palestine's Arabs before the Nakba. "Palestine Remembered" is a completely pointless and unnecessary title that is indeed POV-pushing. You could personalize you user page as much as you would like (as long as there's no threats against anyone) but a template that is placed in several dozens of articles is off-limits to POV. Now don't get the wrong idea, I like the template very much and the destroyed village articles need that template very much, but it must remain neutral like everything else on Wikipedia. Finally, I would like to address the images. Templates should have images, but they should not have a section just for images and the images must appropriate. A template on depopulated villages should have pictures of those depopulated villages on the side. There are several village articles that have images: Suba (village), Lifta, al-Tantura, as-Sumayriyya, az-Zeeb. --Al Ameer son (talk) 18:15, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Okay the images you could just remove right away, but the flag, I thought you like it. Now it is strange for a palestinian to be so political correct as himself saying that the flag originated in the 1960'ies. But it is a symbol, and you will also see israeli templates covered with flag and emblems, It is just natural for people to have a flag and be proud of it and want to use it often. With regards to the two words :" Palestine Remembered", then the first is the name of the land and the other means to remember. No one can have anything against that especially the Palestinians feel inclined to remember. I find the words very powerful, making people who see these words wanting to open the template. In fact I am just going to put it into the Palestinian diaspora and 1948 Palestinian Exodus pages, and we could place it in old oages dealing with old Palestine.Nick Finnsbury (talk) 18:45, 23 September 2008 (UTC)


 * In pure design terms, it works very well with the flag - it is a symbol for the land, as well as the people, especially so for this people, over half of which have no land, but are stateless. If Palestine had been free in 1300 og 1500 hundred, they would also have had a flag. The fact that the palestinians in the Nakba had no flag, was just tragic, but here it serves as quickly identifying the group, and the words: Palestine Remembered signals, that the content of the template is something sombre, which should be approched with the greatest respect, like on a graveyard - but there is time for remeblance and time for action, and once we have dwelt with the tragedy, we will gather strength and purpose, in doing what we must, in order to ensure that Palestine can be liberated, and the Palestinians get back to the land they are named after, and be allowed a vote about how they think their land should be governed. The jews should be allowed to stay, just like the whites in South Africa can stay after the end of Apartheid in 1993. Freedom of choice is the hallmark of us here in the west. So as a matter of course the jews should be able to choose freely between: "Do you want to stay under arab majorityrule, or do you prefer to seek new pastures?Nick Finnsbury (talk) 19:00, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

GA?
Ooooookeeeeeey! I have re-nominated Bayt Jibrin, I´m sure it is ok if you nominate Hebron glass if you like (Hey, I never nominated Palestinian costume ;-P )

Anyway: I have uploaded parts of Guy le Strange: "Palestine under the Moslems" to commons, if you go over to WikiProject Palestine/Sources you will find the link. I concentrated on food ...and al-Asqa mosque, as I see you have been active there. I found especially what Al-Muqaddasi wrote about the taboon some 1000 years ago facinating: almost identical to what Robinson wrote at the beginning of last century! I thought I would leave it to you to choose what you would like to put into Palestinian cuisine...I just make the ingredients available: you will have to add them to the pie! Regards, Huldra (talk) 10:01, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

...and I uploaded a bit about feasts (p.21) and about Nablus (p 511-514) Huldra (talk) 17:26, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Good suggestion. If no one else does it, I'll try to get around to it soon.  T i a m u t talk 14:19, 24 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Re Al-Aqsa nomination, Al Ameer son. I happened to have summed up several sources on the 1920s restoration which have slightly different material. You can see it on the Amin al-Husayni page. Mimar Kemalettin is given in my sources (or Kamal al-Din, in Kupferschmidt) where the AL-Aqsa article calls him Ahmet Kemalettin Bey. Don't know if this is much use. If I've screwed up my version, let me know. Cheers.Nishidani (talk) 16:15, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I think the former issues have been solved. I mentioned three new problems which should be solved and my review is finished. I'll wait for another reviewer to check the first criteria.-- Seyyed(t-c) 06:14, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Former Palestinian Arab villages
Hi Al Ameer son! Nick Finnsbury's template was finally deleted, and I'm working on restoring the old infobox to the articles. Many articles however, such as al-Kabri, have ancient pseudo-infoboxes which should be replaced ASAP. Since you have so far been the most prolofic contributor to this subject, can you see what you can do about this? Also help on restoring the old infobox would be appreciated :) You might also want to convert the area and area_km fields to area_dunam from the Israeli template, which also includes kilometers and miles. Cheers, Ynhockey (Talk) 11:36, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

P.S. You should think about archiving your talk page, it's huge! -- Ynhockey (Talk) 11:36, 1 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't know what you are talking about, there was no consensus, as there are people saying 'keep'. Consensus means that all agree to it. Therefore I question the legality of what you are doing, and I could anyway quickly make a template in a similar design.

During the socalled 'discussion' that took place on the deletion-page, there was no serious argumentation with proof, that the 'Palestinian Remember'-page numbers about houses standing etc. are wrong. It seems sensible that there are no houses standing for eksample, when the viollages have been flattened, so why not say so, when this is the case. Not only have your people 'deleted' the palestinians history and life in Palestine, now you want to delete their history tooNick Finnsbury (talk) 12:38, 1 October 2008 (UTC)


 * ==Now I have spent ½ hour undoing what you unlawfully have done==

You have deleted my work. First you launch a pseudo-discussion about a non-existing problem, careful not to go into detail about what is wrong with my template. I know all those tricks and I know your peoples tricks. This is one thing - the dubious nature of your enterprise (and the moral defunct-ness of it with regards to the poor Palestinians and their historie). But to start delting my template, without any consensus have been reached is so outrageous, that you sjhould really worry, if you can stay here on Wikipedia, editing freely, the way you do. I would be VERY worried if I were you. Nick Finnsbury (talk) 13:22, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Arabic language
Firstly, thanks for fixing the al-Kabri article! There are quite a few more though, I can't remember them all off my head :( In any case, I just had an idea for you: since you're using 'big' HTML tags for Arabic, I think it would be good to create a template for this which would look more orderly and could be changed once to include all Arabic text if needed. See for example Hebrew and Lang-he-n. I also think Arabic text on the English wiki is too small and should be enlerged, to, say, 125%. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 13:18, 1 October 2008 (UTC)


 * This is just spin. The guy tries for some reason to be friendly to Ameer, after he have just finished deleting (now restored) MY template.Nick Finnsbury (talk) 13:22, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Al Ameer son, I have complained about Nick's behavior at WP:ANI. Please leave your 2 cents if you are interested. Cheers, Ynhockey (Talk) 13:34, 1 October 2008 (UTC)


 * This is another thing that characterises them and showing their moral defunct: If they can't manage on their own in a debate and by thge use of shear arguments, they never shy away of reporting to a third person. Now, I have NEVER involved any third person, be it here or on the BBC Radio Five Message Board, where I have been discussing for many years with all kinds of people, including britisk and New York based jews. And they sometimes went further, involving thirdparties. Well, that is moral defunct, and a Testimonium Paupertatis. It reveals that somehow you are not up yo it, you are not up to the task yourself, but have to report to 'third parties.Nick Finnsbury (talk) 14:12, 1 October 2008 (UTC)