User talk:Ale jrb/Archives/July 2010

A suggestion and request
First, the request: Would you be able to take User:Squids and Chips off of the blacklist? The Suggestion: Would it be possible to make some sort of subpage where we can request that someone be taken off of the blacklist? Accidental reversions aren't happening as much now, but they obviously still happen somewhat... Hi 8 7 8  (Come yell at me!) 01:28, 28 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes, an on-wiki blacklist would be nice. Semi-protected of course to prevent abuse by vabdals. ~ Nerdy Science Dude  (✉ • ✐) 02:40, 28 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Removed. It will be possible to undo the blacklisting if you realise you made a mistake, but I'm still busy for the next few days so it won't happen yet. A le_Jrb talk  10:45, 28 June 2010 (UTC)




 * What I was meaning was just make a subpage where we request that people be taken off the blacklist, so that we don't have to fill oyur talk page with removal requests. :)  Hi 8 7 8   (Come yell at me!) 00:40, 30 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Any luck with User talk:Ale jrb/Archives/June 2010 ? – xeno talk 18:17, 28 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Oops, been doing exams. Will do it in a few days. A le_Jrb talk  18:54, 28 June 2010 (UTC)


 * No rush, but be warned by the time you get a round tuit, I might've become used to the way it is now ;p – xeno talk 18:56, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
 * OKies. After like, ten years, I've put a copy at User:Ale jrb/sandbox.js that does what you want. If you set var xenoHideTop = true; (or do nothing), it will move the button. If you want the button back to where the other version has it, set var xenoHideTop = false; - copy the script where you want. I suggest you don't link to my sandbox unless you permalink, because it changes quite often. A le_Jrb talk  09:43, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Cool... It works... I tried to rejig it so I can just update the original (I'd rather not fork it), but I apparently screwed something up. – xeno talk 15:28, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
 * What happened to it when you tried to copy it? A le_Jrb talk  10:31, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

A question
I was just curious, on the settings for Igloo, it says, next to "igloo user flags", t. What does that mean? Hi 8 7 8  (Come yell at me!) 00:33, 30 June 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm guessing "trust". Is that right?  Hi 8 7 8   (Come yell at me!) 00:35, 30 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Yeah, it's automatically assigned after a certain number of sessions. It doesn't really do anything now, but it will in the future. A le_Jrb talk  08:52, 30 June 2010 (UTC)


 * It marks my edits green, though, right? Or is that something else?  Hi 8 7 8   (Come yell at me!) 16:36, 30 June 2010 (UTC)


 * No, that's the iglooNet whitelist - it marks lots of users green. A le_Jrb talk  17:17, 30 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Ah. Also, I think you missed my question two sections above this one. :)  Hi 8 7 8   (Come yell at me!) 17:24, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Well there's not much point in having a subpage, because it will all be handled in-program as soon as I get around to it. Until that time, this page is fine - the orange bar is handy, and all that. A le_Jrb talk  11:04, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Edit
Hi, Just a note to ask if we can work on the edit you refused to; Artist, Roger Hiorns' wiki statement. I want to delete the extraneous parts that are unhelpful in defining the work. Can we discuss, or simply revert to my recent amendment. Filter.use (talk) 12:22, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

edit
The article, It regards myself, how can we proceed...RH —Preceding unsigned comment added by Filter.use (talk • contribs) 12:36, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Possibly simple script
If I want unblock user links to go through the secure server is there an easy way to translate them from en.wikipedia.org links into secure.wikimedia.org links using perhaps a Firefox extension, or a tweak to personal js or css? – xeno talk 18:23, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Links where? Interface links, links from templates, or just anything? A le_Jrb talk  10:33, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Everywhere. Though I might just start going thru the secure server all the time, because I have a similar issue with the popups userinfo grabber. – xeno talk 14:56, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it's possible, but it would probably be easier (and faster wrt load time) just to generally use the secure server. I can write something if you still want, though. A le_Jrb talk  19:12, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

The Wikipedia Signpost: 5 July 2010
Read this Signpost in full &middot; Single-page &middot; Unsubscribe &middot; EdwardsBot (talk) 15:04, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Qtrax
Dear Ale jrb, This is the Qtrax team. One of the primary authors of the Wikipedia article is the subject of defamation action by us. There is an abundance of false and non neutral statements in what has just been posted yet again. The person in question has placed 2,200 dafamatory postings on the internet. The facts in this case are easy to ascertain and the company is more than willing to cooperate with anybody who is interested in establishing the truth. However the company will not tolerate this defamation and will take all necessary steps to protect itself. It is extraordinary that this libel has been allowed to persist on what is supposed to be a neutral forum. If, as an administrator of English Wikipedia you wish to enter into a dialogue to asses and verify what we are saying, we would welcome that. If for any reason you are unable to or otherwise disinclined, we would appreciate the relevance party so that we or our attorneys may engage with them immediately. During the time that it takes you to sort this out, we would ask that any entry for Qtrax be immediately removed, including our own. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ccyypp (talk • contribs) 19:00, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I have replied on this user's talk page. A le_Jrb talk  19:11, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

QTRAX
Hi Ale jrb

My friend received your helpful comments and guidance regarding the Qtrax article. I have a few of questions and comments:

1. DELINEATING THE TRUTH: You ask, understandably, whether we are suggesting that the Times and others were lying re Qtrax not having licenses at Midem. As my friend explained, we had certain existing licenses and new understandings to accommodate a new Qtrax model. First of all, those existing licenses were announced prior to Midem by both the relevant record companies and us- so I suppose we can cite those announcements to prove our contention. But secondly, and more puzzling to me, without casting aspersions on any new outlet, the reporting was simply wrong in a couple of ways. My questions to you in this regard are:

A. If we have the executed, physical licenses how do we use those to prove (to Wikipedia's satisfaction) the inaccuracy of the Press at that time. Surely, the Press is not the final arbiter of the truth?

B. We only claimed we had the "support" of the record companies at the MIDEM Press Conference. If we can locate a tape of this conference, how do we use it to alter the record?

I guess, my general enquiry is this: We know the truth. We have evidence of the truth. We obviously do not need to have it verified by a newspaper. How do we employ this evidence?

2. EMPHASIS OF ARTICLE:

The article is dominated by a failed launch. We would suggest:

A. Being the only Company in the world with global licenses from the majors for downloadable music is at least as pertinent to what the Company is- as any failed launch. It was the only reason that the Press was interested in the launch.

B. The fact we have since launched in 6 countries in recent weeks would seem to render a past non-launch, a little less relevant.

C. We do not want to reduce the size of the failed launch contribution- we merely want to make it accurate and have it preceded by a balanced description of the Company. The example my friend used of Exxon Valdez-the major accident is relegated to see also. Is it inappropriate to have the failed MIDEM Launch in see also? (BTW, it is of at least passing interest, that a large number of edits were made by a former failed competitor of ours- hence the lack of balance and neutrality is not a complete surprise).

3. PROOF: We understand the Wikipedia rules regarding citations etc. But if we are for example launched in 6 countries (a very easily verifiable fact), are you saying that malicious statements that we are not, cannot be refuted unless we have Press stating we are? If so, I suppose we could arrange press but this seems a little bizarre to us.

I thank you for your help. In some ways we are to blame for the existence of inaccuracies because we have never chosen to fight them in a concerted way, before. But when they affect your livelihood and when they become enshrined in an online encyclopedia otherwise known for its neutrality, it is clearly time to make a stand.

EMET 18  Emet18 (talk) 16:40, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi there. With regards to your first point, A, you have to make those record available publically (although I wonder why the company didn't do that in the first place, instead of putting up with the negative press..?) and they can then be quoted. Keep in mind, of course, that due to WP:NPOV, it must still be stated that all the news outlets reported it differently from how Qtrax claimed. With regards to 1B, the same applies. If you have evidence, make it available and it can be quoted to you, but the fact remains that none of the news agencies seem to agree with Qtrax's version of events - which is sort of an important point to the general reader.
 * For 2A, you need to source that claim to a third party. Original research (a company making a claim that is clearly in their business interest) cannot be used to support a claim that a company is a world leader in something. If that is true, why is there no news coverage of it? Wouldn't it be good publicity? Either way, if Qtrax now has licences that no one else has, that must be sourced. Likewise, it still remains true that the news reported that Qtrax did not have the licences it claimed to have. For 2B, I could find no evidence except the official website that showed any launch at all - and the official website has been making launch claims for years, as far as I can tell. You can link to a press release saying Qtrax has 'claimed' to have launched, but there must be third party evidence to support that assertion in order to state it as fact. For 2C, that's not really appropriate, no. The fact remains that Qtrax is by far best known for its launch failure. Until that changes, it is unsuitable to cut or move the section of related statements.
 * For 3, that's not really the point. The point is that a company claiming they have launched a product, when there is no reliable evidence that that is true, cannot be stated as fact in an encyclopaedia.
 * Hope that helps. A le_Jrb <sup style="color:blue;">talk  19:08, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks very much.I really appreciate your diligence. I don't want to belabor these points, but we cannot let the matter rest until the truth is "outed":

1. Making highly confidential agreements public is impossible. (This BTW, is why we didn't at the time because as bad as the Press was, it would have been worse to lose licenses). However, both the licenses granted before MIDEM and after MIDEM are a matter of public record and we will carefully assemble it.

Having been thru this hell, I do not share your reverence for all news outlets- even the most prestigious of them can get it wrong, sometimes. And one article often leads to another. The automatic acceptance of a majority view is not necessarily wise- whether that be the press, individuals or whatever.

Furthermore, it seems even more unreliable to me to base any assertion on a single blog (e.g. the ridiculous extrapolation of the MIDEM usage statistic quoted). The notion that a blog per se is more reliable than a company is a curious one. The blogosphere is not exactly reliable 100% of the time- and some blogs have extreme bias- which is one of the reasons that the neutrality of Wikipedia is so important.

In any case, notwithstanding the confidentiality of licenses, we will establish the facts, as best we can from the public record.

2. We are not claiming to be a world leader, as such- only that we have unique licenses. The existence of licenses we will establish (as indicated in point 1) via the public record.

3. Qtrax has NEVER claimed to have launched when it hasn't. It had predicted it would launch- and didn't, on time. Something many companies have suffered from. (I must confess to find it a little alarming that anybody would think otherwise)

We will verify via third parties- simply by doing press interviews- that we are live in 6 countries and counting. But the onus being on us to prove it, is truly strange. ANYBODY in Australia, New Zeaqland, Singapore, Malaysia, Hong Kong or India that has access to a computer CAN PROVE IT. It is hard to believe that Wikipedia's standard procedure is that WE must prove it.

Thanks again for your help.

Emet18 (talk) 20:35, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
 * The problem for many of your claims lies in our three core content policies, but especially Verifiability and No original research. The key points are, "The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth." That is, it doesn't matter whether something is true, unless people can verify it from a reliable source. Also note, "To demonstrate that you are not adding original research, you must be able to cite reliable published sources that are directly related to the topic of the article, and that directly support the material as presented." Hopefully, you can see our position. Wikipedia can't publish information just on the say-so of one individual. It might help if you read over our core content policies - the two I linked above, along with Neutral point of view - in order to better understand what information you need to provide, and the reasons we require it.  A le_Jrb <sup style="color:blue;">talk  21:11, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

igloo is not functioning :)
Hi Ale jrb. I thought I better contact you to notify you that igloo appears to have nosedived into the pit of doom... It's failing on launch, saying "IGLOO has closed - Userlist retrieval failed - lost connection to IglooNet - retry|help" - when you click help however, it's a redlink. I wonder if you'd be kind enough to take a look and see if you can sort out whatever's wrong; I know it's only in Alpha at the moment, so if this is to do with the testing/coding, please let me know :) Thanks,  Barking Fish  Talk to me &#124; My contributions 22:11, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for letting me know - some of the server code has changed, but the client isn't ready to be updated yet. I'll put it into developer mode, and it should be fixed in a few days. :) A le_Jrb <sup style="color:blue;">talk  23:56, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

The San Juan Capistrano California Entry
Hello,

On numerous occasions I have had to change the demographic information for the aforementioned page, due to some little whelp entering in erroneous data. Every time I have changed it to reflect Official Census Bureau Estimates as of 2000, said whelp changes the data back again to numbers he/she/it pulls out of his/her/its rear end. More specifically, said whelp seems to take pleasure in lowering the percentage of whites in the city, raising the percentage of hispanics, and lowering median incomes for individuals and families. Until said whelp tires of entering in erroneous data, I see no reason to delete my edit. I have grown impatient of repeatedly editing the exact numbers.

John S. Manet (talk) 09:59, 10 July 2010 (UTC)John S. Manet
 * I have no comment on the validity of the data, but removing vast sections of the article and replacing them with an angry message and a link is unsuitable for Wikipedia, and is considered vandalism. If the data is incorrent, make a case on the talk page and explain why, and where you are getting your information from. Thanks. A le_Jrb <sup style="color:blue;">talk  10:02, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Why is it that when our little whelp tampers with the data, I do not find the data has been corrected? I expect, then, every time I check back that the data will be correct and our whelp's handiwork will not be evident.

As for vandalism: at very least people would get the correct data. Under the circumstances, it is not vandalism by any rational standards. John S. Manet (talk) 10:16, 10 July 2010 (UTC)John S. Manet

"Avoid the word "vandal". In particular, this word should not be used to refer to any contributor in good standing, or to any edits that might have been made in good faith. This is because if the edits were made in good faith, they are not vandalism. Instead of calling the person who made the edits a "vandal", discuss your concerns with them. Comment on the content and substance of the edits, instead of making personal comments." Even by Wikipedia's standards it is not vandalism. John S. Manet (talk) 11:01, 10 July 2010 (UTC)John S. Manet
 * Then you have my apologies for misreading your intentions - it is, of course, extremely rare for deliberate removal of large amounts of useful content from the mainspace and the subsequent replacement with angry messages to be in any way good-faith, but I'll take your word for it, I suppose. Nevertheless, making any such edit again would be deliberate, and therefore vandalism, and may result in a block. I hope that clears it up for you. A le_Jrb <sup style="color:blue;">talk  11:11, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

1. You assert that erroneous facts are to be considered "useful content." I was not aware of that and find that quite bizarre. You may say that it would have been better to edit the specific statistics. True, but I have had to do that numerous times on my own already, since for some reason, whelp's edits manage to fly under the radar of all Wikipedia's admins. 2. It was not an angry message, but rather a reasonable explanation for the section's conspicuous barrenness. 3. Of course I am well acquainted with Wikipedia's vandalism policies, having just quoted from them, you'll have noticed. John S. Manet (talk) 11:31, 10 July 2010 (UTC)John S. Manet
 * Please read WP:NPA. Referring to another editor as a 'whelp' in your patronising manner is inappropriate behaviour. Comment on the content, not the contributor. 'Reasonable explanations' are not suitable for inclusion in the mainspace, and damage the integrity of the encyclopaedia. If you believe content is incorrect, correct it. If someone reverts you, discuss the changes with them, rather than starting an edit war or damaging the article further (such as your edit). If that doesn't help, seek a WP:Third opinion. Read WP:Dispute resolution for more info on this process. Thanks for helping Wikipedia. A le_Jrb <sup style="color:blue;">talk  11:48, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

The "editor" is deliberately changing numbers. There is no gray area here. I am right and he/she/it is wrong. He/she/it is not a valuable member to the site, and is a pest. My edit enhanced the page. Imagine you are an individual with an interest in moving to San Juan Capistrano. You see the median income is below the national average, and that there is a proportionally large number of Hispanics in the city when compared to the rest of the nation. Your reaction will not be attraction. This is what the "editor" wants. The link I provided has the actual data. The "editor" is a troll and a troublemaker at best, and someone with an interest in discouraging individuals from moving to San Juan Capistrano at worst. If you understood this, then perhaps you might have better understood my actions. Watch the page and see how often it is maliciously edited. That's all I care about, perhaps more fervently than I should. Your welcome, the pleasure is mine. John S. Manet (talk) 12:10, 10 July 2010 (UTC)John S. Manet
 * Firstly, racism is unlikely to make me support you. I suggest retracting it. Secondly, I have checked the data in the article, and according to the US Census Bureau, it is correct (and was still correct before you removed it all and replaced it with a link). I suggest taking some time away from the page. Best, A le_Jrb <sup style="color:blue;">talk  12:33, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

My mistake then. At very least if he knows the edit history, he'll stop now, being aware of the attention he is drawing. And I am Mexican, Honduran, and Spanish. I was simply stating what most people are prone to think. I know if given the choice between a city with 30% Hispanics and 50%, I would take 30% thank you very much. The data support me. Read a Pat Buchanan book. Maybe you'll realize why "less Hispanics = better city" is the rule. I won't waste my time bludgeoning you with facts; find them on your own. John S. Manet (talk) 19:55, 10 July 2010 (UTC)John S. Manet

And just so you're aware, I would consider reference #1 on the page mis-leading. It should link either to the home page of the Census Bureau or San Juan's page, not the entire country's page. I mistakenly believed the data to have been changed maliciously because I mistook the country's data for San Juan's, a plausible mistake for any ordinary user. John S. Manet (talk) 20:06, 10 July 2010 (UTC)John S. Manet
 * I don't especially care about your justifications for racism. Feel free to correct the source link yourself - I don't really have anything else to say to you on the matter. A le_Jrb <sup style="color:blue;">talk  22:34, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

And I do especially care that you are a gutless PC robot, parroting the nonsense about race you have been fed and accepted. You have no business being on Wikipedia. I have nothing more to say to you. John S. Manet (talk) 23:30, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Read WP:NPA. A le_Jrb <sup style="color:blue;">talk  10:30, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

Atomic operations
Firstly, how is merging two pages covering the same topic "not constructive"? Secondly, I have been on wikipedia for years, so you don't need to welcome me. --Chris Purcell (talk) 11:15, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
 * With regards to your second point, it is a standard message, clearly not intended to 'mitigate' any 'offense' you might have taken - see WP:UW, and consider (re-)reading WP:AGF. With regards to your first point, redirecting established pages without explanation is a common sign of vandalism. When making this type of change, it is helpful if you explain yourself in the WP:Edit summary. Feel free to redo your change, and remove the message. A le_Jrb <sup style="color:blue;">talk  11:22, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

You're right, that was an overreaction -- had already changed my wording. --Chris Purcell (talk) 12:04, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks. My apologies for the misunderstanding. A le_Jrb <sup style="color:blue;">talk  12:24, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

New igloo version
Nice job with the filters. Now I can get probable vandalism with the abuse filter tags. Excellent! The text shrunk though. I preferred the much bigger text in my opinion. ~ Nerdy Science Dude  (✉ • ✐ • ✍) 01:07, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
 * The text size was incorrect before - that's why it wouldn't fit in the boxes. It now shows as the same size over all skins, which is preferable imo. Maybe I'll add a setting for it at some point in the future, dunno. A le_Jrb <sup style="color:blue;">talk  10:30, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

Igloo ideas
1) The help file - it's a redlink on WP:GLOO, and I can't remember how to summon it again. Can you make it so that the Igloo logo links to it, in the interface? 2) Is rollback actually used? As far as I can tell, it isn't; it only seems to undo when I try. 3) It's really good for reverting vandalism, but it makes it too easy! I have three times now reverted good edits, though I can't see any way to fix that :) --Smaug123 (talk) 19:55, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
 * 1. There isn't a help file yet - I haven't written one. :) 2. igloo only uses rollback. 3. Be more careful! ;) A le_Jrb <sup style="color:blue;">talk  20:50, 11 July 2010 (UTC)


 * 1. That's a good reason, I think :) 2. Ah, I see. 3. I shall try! --Smaug123 (talk) 21:25, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

Get the insect repellent ready...
...because anything with multiple quotation marks (") is unclickable. ~ Nerdy Science Dude  (✉ • ✐ • ✍) 22:30, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I thought I'd fixed that, but perhaps not. I'll look at it at some point. A le_Jrb <sup style="color:blue;">talk  10:11, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
 * That was multiple apostrophes(') that you fixed. The quotation marks (") are what's unclickable. This is only a problem with multiple quotation marks. ~ Nerdy Science Dude  (✉ • ✐ • ✍) 22:22, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmm - not sure I've ever seen a page with quotation marks in it, which might be why. :) I'll have a look. Cheers. A le_Jrb <sup style="color:blue;">talk  23:54, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

The Wikipedia Signpost: 12 July 2010
<div style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">Read this Signpost in full &middot; Single-page &middot; Unsubscribe &middot; EdwardsBot (talk) 20:04, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Secure wikipedia and igloo
There are probably bigger fish to fry, but just so you know, igloo doesn't work if you try to start it through the secure server. I got the following error:


 * Launching session manager...
 * - Session manager loaded.
 * - Attempting to connect to the server, requesting token...
 * - Connected to the remote server.
 * - Requesting session scheme...
 * - Warning: igloo server returned an error: token-mismatch: your request token could not be verified by the server. Loading stopped.

It works fine for me when I used the normal server. Smartse (talk) 22:11, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Perhaps, as I suggested earlier, you could add support for the secure server? — m o n o   23:40, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll look into it. A le_Jrb <sup style="color:blue;">talk  23:53, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Igloo
Hey, I know there's no whitelist, but is there some way of removing an editor who has been accidentally reverted? It appears that an experienced editor has been accidentally reverted and I just reverted them again with Igloo after their edit flashed across my screen as "probable vandalism" so I'm wondering if there's some way you can remove a particular editor or perhaps come up with some form of whitelisting system (perhaps just going by Huggle's whitelist). Thanks for your time and sorry to trouble you (I don't envy you developing something as complicated as Igloo but you've done a good job!). Whisky drinker &#124;  HJ's sock   00:45, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * There currently isn't way to remove a user from the blacklist. Ale jrb has to do it himself. Future versions should have this capability. ~ Nerdy Science Dude  (✉ • ✐ • ✍) 03:11, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * If you let me know who it is, I'll remove them. A le_Jrb <sup style="color:blue;">talk  08:08, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks, it's User:Δ (yes Δ, with the untypable delta). HJ Mitchell  &#124;  Penny for your thoughts?   11:57, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Delta has been whitelisted. :) I do think untypable characters should be blocked, though... A le_Jrb <sup style="color:blue;">talk  14:13, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Some are. I tried to create a user:☭... — m o n o   00:30, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Well that's understandable it's the Communist Hammer and Sickle of course it's banned lol.  Fridae'§Doom &#124;  Talk to me  11:04, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

A possible new script or tag?
I'm thinking about trying to do something and I'd like you to tell me how ridiculous it sounds to you. I am thinking about creating a script or template that would work to identify visitors skins, Vector, MonoBook, etc., and than choose what to display based on that. Basically it would be a way that we could make it so that people using MonoBook saw the same thing as people using Vector when looking at the flag on your userpage. I've come across other instances of this problem and would like to solve it. It actually is possible as the stuff to identify your skin already exists. It changes the HTML for the page to (when you're using MonoBook):. Please give me advice on what to do in regards to this and the best form to create it in.  Mr. R00t   Talk  21:13, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * What flag are you talking about? :) You can do changes based on the skin easily with JavaScript - the 'skin' variable is set to the name of the skin my MediaWiki - and add, remove or change content based on skin. If it's less complicated, you can also made parts of a page 'display: none;' and people can make them appear by adding the relevant CSS to their page (e.g. they could add some showvector css that would only unhide the version aimed at vector). It depends exactly what you want to do. Definitely possible, though. A le_Jrb <sup style="color:blue;">talk  21:22, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry; I'm not great with these things. Could you please explain this a little more carefully and thoroughly for me? I was thinking that if nothing existed I could have some people help me make something that would do that.  Mr. R00t    Talk  21:30, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, sure. What exactly do you want it to do? Also, you mentioned a flag - sorry, how is that relevant? Basically, however, MediaWiki automatically adds a JavaScript variable to the page containing the skin that's currently in use. If you write a JavaScript script that checks this variable and makes the changes you want, and get people to add it to their skin JavaScript pages, it will do what you want. For what you've described, this might be the best way. A le_Jrb <sup style="color:blue;">talk  21:34, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Basically HJ Mitchell is having a problem with his English flag at the top left corner of his page. We've got it to work in Monobook but when we look in Vector it is horribly messed up. Basically we want it to look good whichever skin you happen to be using.  Mr. R00t    Talk  21:48, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

We're attempting to cover the Wikipedia-logo in Vector and keep the image behind the logo in Monobook.  Mr. R00t   Talk  21:50, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * There is no way that I know of to alter the appearance of a page for all users of a skin, without them personally adding a script or some css to do so. Perhaps it can be done with templates, you'd have to ask someone who's good with them. A le_Jrb <sup style="color:blue;">talk  12:47, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Who might you suggest I go to?  Mr. R00t    Talk  15:31, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't know. Maybe User:Amalthea? Or post on WP:VP/T? A le_Jrb <sup style="color:blue;">talk  18:16, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for all your help. I'll contact Amalthea and maybe start start a thread on VP/T. Cheers,  Mr. R00t    Talk  19:25, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Custom warnings
Recently I've come across several instances where GLOO has mistakenly identified an edit as vandalism. Of course I understand that no script is perfect and mistakes are only 'human'. However, it seems that the script also automatically leaves vandalism warnings on the user's page. It may be a good idea to make it clear in such warnings that vandalism was detected by a computer script and not by a human and that there is therefore no direct (human) assumption of bad faith. I just mean: if people are falsely accused of vandalism, they should at least be informed that this may in fact be due to a bug or imperfect script. Lindert (talk) 21:25, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
 * igloo does not make any decisions for itself, at all. Any reverts made using the program were initiated by a user viewing a diff and pressing a button. If they have done so inappropriately, please take it up with them. Cheers. A le_Jrb <sup style="color:blue;">talk  21:27, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok, thanks for clearing that up. Lindert (talk) 22:15, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

igloo suggestion
You should use the Toolserver for iglooNet. One advantage is that you have access to the Wikipedia database so that you can implement a faster RC patrol. Otherwise, igloo is great. — I-20 the highway  02:37, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
 * In what way would RC be faster? Change data still needs to get to the clients, and the API is pretty fast. igloo collects and stores everything else it needs in the background while it's being used. A le_Jrb <sup style="color:blue;">talk  11:31, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Never mind about RC. I agree about the API being fast as it is. — I-20 the highway  15:59, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

The Wikipedia Signpost: 19 July 2010
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Igloo loses connection
When I try to start Igloo, it connects to the Igloonet server and gets the token successfully, but when it tries to load the actual reversion interface, it quits saying that "igloo has lost the connection to IglooNet". I've disabled NoScript, Little Snitch, and every other firewall I have installed, but it's still denying the connection. Have you any idea what's happening? ( X! ·  talk )  · @117  · 01:48, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm suspecting the server's down, as this has happened before to me and others. Don't know any other explanation. Airplaneman   ✈  04:35, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
 * The server is currently working fine. What stage in the load does it get to just before it disconnects? A le_Jrb <sup style="color:blue;">talk  12:58, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
 * "Finalizing load", "Verified session. Requesting from iglooNet...", "retrieval failed - lost connection to iglooNet" ( X! ·  talk )  · @725  · 16:23, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
 * It's probably timing out while downloading the list of users - is it still loading data according to the browser when it times out? I'll increase the general timeout a bit, and see about adding an option to set it manually. In the long run, it will stream it in parts, and so stay connected (and be able to display progress), but I haven't got round to it yet. A le_Jrb <sup style="color:blue;">talk  16:45, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
 * No, it says "Done" for about 6 seconds prior to the "lost connection" message. ( X! ·  talk )  · @793  · 18:01, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmmm... I'll look into it. A le_Jrb <sup style="color:blue;">talk  18:14, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
 * It's still happening, just so you know. ( X! ·  talk )  · @822  · 18:43, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

Do you get any JavaScript errors? A le_Jrb <sup style="color:blue;">talk 22:25, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
 * No. ( X! ·  talk )  · @124  · 01:58, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
 * That's really strange... it's working for everyone else. Hmmm... I'll change some stuff. A le_Jrb <sup style="color:blue;">talk  14:52, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
 * D'oh. I was still using my modification, which was still tied to the old server. Don't need it anymore, as your version has blocking enabled. Sorry for the trouble, and thanks for getting blocking working! ( X! ·  talk )  · @724  · 16:22, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Hehe - no worries. Glad you got it working. :) A le_Jrb <sup style="color:blue;">talk  17:35, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Typo in Igloo
In the box that appears once Igloo loads, it says this: "While igloo will eventually get round to whitelisting trusted users who have been reverted by mistake, at the moment, normal users have to wait to expire of be manually removed." Need I say more? Hi 8 7 8  (Come shout at me!) 01:12, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi878, you missed the "eventually get round to"… or was that a typo of your own? :) I couldn't find the exact quote in IG. Airplaneman   ✈  03:18, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks, fixed. A le_Jrb <sup style="color:blue;">talk  10:25, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

The Wikipedia Signpost: 26 July 2010
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Igloo and chrome
Seems to not hook properly with Chrome.. I know it says that it's designed for firefox, but is this an issue that you're aware of? Thanks Tommy!  [ message ] 18:29, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
 * WORKSFORME. Do you get any JavaScript errors? Where does it get stuck? What version of Chrome are you using? A le_Jrb <sup style="color:blue;">talk  19:05, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
 * The latest... Like it'll load and everything but then when it finalizes and starts to open up-- it goes back to the original reload screen. :S I use the latest version (5.0.375.99) on Mac OS X. Tommy!  [ message ] 19:11, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Eh? What exactly does it say on the screen at the point where it stops working? Do you have any add-ons that might be interfering with it? A le_Jrb <sup style="color:blue;">talk  19:38, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Me thinks no. It loads perfectly.. but just when it loads the interface... it stops and starts all over and doesnt open. Tommy!  [ message ] 19:45, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Check your JavaScript console for errors. It should be under the Developer menu in the page menu. A le_Jrb <sup style="color:blue;">talk  20:17, 27 July 2010 (UTC)