User talk:Aleksandr Grigoryev/Archive 5

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 * Bolokhoveni
 * added a link pointing to Sluch River


 * Ukrainian parliamentary election, 2014
 * added a link pointing to Serhiy Melnyk

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Speedy deletion nomination of Laborious Ukraine Electoral Bloc


A tag has been placed on Laborious Ukraine Electoral Bloc requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a club, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please read more about what is generally accepted as notable.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. Yoshi24517 Chat Absent 23:34, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

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 * Political parties in Ukraine
 * added links pointing to Phantom, People's Democratic Party and Ukrainian Social Democratic Party


 * Alliance of European National Movements
 * added a link pointing to Béla Kovács

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Edit warring
You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement. Please be particularly aware that Wikipedia's policy on edit warring states: If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing.
 * 1) Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made.
 * 2) Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

It's not nice to revert back when you are reverted. See BOLD, revert, discuss cycle. --Moscow Connection (talk) 19:03, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

2014 pro-Russian unrest in Ukraine
You are on 3RR over there, please stop reverting, and please serup auto archiving for your talk page, it is insanely long man. Darkness Shines (talk) 19:12, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for November 18
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 * List of rivers of Ukraine
 * added links pointing to Don, Sula, Ros, Sluch, Psel and Desna


 * Bohdan Semenets
 * added a link pointing to Forward


 * Elka (singer)
 * added a link pointing to Yolka


 * Ihor Koliada
 * added a link pointing to Forward


 * Viktor Diak
 * added a link pointing to Forward


 * Yuriy Hetman
 * added a link pointing to Forward

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"update" as edit summary
When you use "update" as an edit summary, it doesn't convey any information about what you did, and it also suppresses the generation of automatic edit summaries. Can you try to either use more descriptive edit summaries, or failing that, none at all, so that at least automatic edit summaries will work? Thanks, Jackmcbarn (talk) 15:47, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Yuriy Kryvoruchko
Hi, are you planning to create a page on the the Ukrainian politician Yuriy Kryvoruchko? He would probably qualify for an article under general notability guidelines but I don't like having a disambiguation page before the article has been created. There is nothing to "disambiguate" yet. Note that the normal practice on the English wikipedia is to disambiguate by what the person is notable for, rather than their patronymic, so I moved the page from Yuriy Hryhorovych Kryvoruchko to Yuriy Kryvoruchko (chess player). MaxBrowne (talk) 08:47, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

Re: List of chairmen of the Verkhovna Rada
I think you're wrong. Turchynov is mentioned as one of the founding members of People's Front, according to this source, so its quite logical that he represented it in the Parliament before November 27... Before that, he was a member of Batkivshchyna since 1999. --Sundostund (talk) 16:30, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

Reference

 * Turchynov switched his party affiliation during his term as chairman, and it must be noted in the list. As of 10 September, he clearly became one of the leading figures of the People's Front (source which I showed to you clearly proves that), and he broke off his affiliation with Batkivshchyna. We can't claim that he was somehow part of Batkivshchyna after 10 September. Cheers. --Sundostund (talk) 22:57, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Again, we can't claim something which isn't true. He wasn't affiliated with Batkivshchyna after 10 September, in the same way as Yatsenyuk and Avakov. They broke off, and found a new party. It would be a serious misleading of our readers if we left a claim in the list that he was affiliated with Batkivshchyna until November. Do we need to repeat ourselves for the rest of the night? --Sundostund (talk) 23:13, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm not talking about parliamentary rules, but about reality. His switching of party membership in September must be noted in the list. Any claim that he was a member to Batkivshchyna after September would be a misleading of readers. How much times do I need to repeat it? --Sundostund (talk) 23:29, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
 * You deny that fact by your attempting to have that information removed from the list. --Sundostund (talk) 23:31, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
 * You're free to think whatever you want. We have to agree that we disagree, that's all. --Sundostund (talk) 23:44, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

Talkback
Iryna Harpy (talk) 22:07, 30 November 2014 (UTC) --Iryna Harpy (talk) 22:20, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for December 1
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Disambiguation link notification for December 9
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Royal Polish people category nominated for deletion
Please see Categories_for_discussion/Log/2014_December_9. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 09:16, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

Novorossiya
You may be interested in the conversation here; Talk:Novorossiya.--BoguSlav 20:35, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
 * , thank you for invitation. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 21:58, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

Np. There has been a depressingly high influx of Ukrainophobic POV on Wikipedia recently, distracting from building up content. For example, I have been occupied with other articles like Cossack Hetmante with a user who insists it was never a state, or several users on Donetsk People's Republic, who insist to call it a country... --BoguSlav 17:18, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
 * , I do check them time to time, particularly the War in Donbass. I am aware of those Ukrop-hunters. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 01:02, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for December 16
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 * List of rivers of Ukraine
 * added a link pointing to Desna


 * Vasiliy Averin
 * added a link pointing to Chekist


 * Yekaterinoslav Bolshevik Uprising
 * added a link pointing to Novomoskovsk

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 * Colony
 * added a link pointing to Kingdom of Poland


 * Donets Basin
 * added a link pointing to Don River


 * Donetsk
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 * Kuznetsovsk
 * added a link pointing to Chekist


 * List of places named after Vladimir Lenin
 * added a link pointing to Lenin Raion


 * Vsevolod Petriv
 * added a link pointing to UNR

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Happy New Year Aleksandr Grigoryev!


Happy New Year! Aleksandr Grigoryev, Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia. Iryna Harpy (talk) 22:46, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year 2015}} to user talk pages.

Happy New Year!
 Dear, HAPPY NEW YEAR Hoping 2015 will be a great year for you! Thank you for your contributions! From a fellow editor, --FWiW Bzuk (talk)

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Disambiguation link notification for January 19
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tagging
Your tagging of db-madeupsubject for various articles concerning the Donetsk People's Republic could be seen as disruptive. Don't repeat it, please.  DGG ( talk ) 19:59, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
 * your readdition of the tagging is certainly disruptive. . A formal warning follows.  DGG ( talk ) 20:01, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

January 2015
You may be blocked from editing without further warning the next time you disrupt Wikipedia.  DGG ( talk ) 20:01, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

TFD
Hi, Nominating templates for deletion belong at WP:TFD, Not WP:AFD so I've closed the discussion

TFD is for Templates, AFD is for Articles, RFD is for Redirects etc etc .... You get the jist,

Thank you. – Davey 2010 Talk 03:53, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
 * , thank you for notice. The issue re-opened at TFD. (20 January 2015) Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 04:31, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
 * You're welcome, Cheers and Happy Editing :) – Davey 2010 Talk 04:33, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

WP:AN notifications
From the edit notice you would have seen when initiating that thread: "When you start a discussion about an editor, you must notify them on their user talk page. You may use This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved.  Thank you. to do so." Since you did not I have notified the two other users you named. Please be more careful in the future. thanks. Beeblebrox (talk) 22:56, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
 * @Aleksandr. I suggest for you to withdraw this request. Making accusations on AN without providing any supporting diffs (as you did) amounts to a "personal attack". And after quickly looking at this, I can see absolutely nothing to suggest that you have been "harassed" by anyone. My very best wishes (talk) 16:48, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
 * , I have been accused in groundless "proding" and disruptive editing with warning to be blocked. In my proposals for deletion I stated that certain articles that are based on the recent events and they are in dispute. Because of that such articles need to be properly referenced, otherwise they qualify for original research. Nonetheless, the above mentioned users chose to ignore my arguments and accused me in political bias and threaten me with blocking. I managed to reason with one of them and the user completely re-edit the section that I challenged. I just do not understand why the user had to throw accusations and threats at me. Another user accused me in disruptive editing and posted an official warning on my talk page. Some articles which I proposed to be deleted were created by user who is blocked now. Those articles were poorly referenced and a lot of the stuff was clearly based on original research. After posting the AN notification, I had Beeblebrox suggesting me to familiarize with WP:BOOMERANG. I guess the user implied that I am causing edit wars. I simply asked for an advise on how to deal with things like that, instead I am being blamed from all over the place. What is going on? I do not understand why the users had to threaten me to pursue their point. Is that how we solve issues in Wikipedia from now on? Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 01:57, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Here is the problem. None of the people involved (you, the admin or another user) provided any diffs of alleged wrongdoing (on AN or your talk page). You did not provide any diffs where someone harasses you, as you tell. They did not provide any diffs showing your disruptive editing or groundless prodding. Therefore I can not give you any real advice (P. provided a diffs on AN which do not show any problems). However, in the situation where no one provided any diffs, you are the guilty party by default, because it was you who came to AN with personal accusations unsupported by any evidence. I can only tell that admin who issued you this warning is probably one of the most peaceful people in the project, so you must be doing something really wrong, but I do not know what it was without diffs. My very best wishes (talk) 04:37, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
 * P.S. I only found this, which by itself should not be a reason for the warning above... My very best wishes (talk) 05:09, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

, no, it is not related. Psychonaut, simply got rid of it and I did not really challenged. The main issue was this. Did you read the talk page on the Secession article? The user wrote the following: "Over the last few days he's tried several times to blank, delete, or speedy-delete content on secessionist groups, and given completely bogus reasons for doing so." Psychonaut accuses me of "completely bogus reasons", while later the user completely rewrote the section.

I suggested the article List of political parties in the Donetsk People's Republic for deletion. The reason is the fact that there is no political parties in this "republic". Those political entities are technically public movements. I do not challenge existence of the Donetsk Republic organization. It is a Ukrainian separatist organization and was banned in 2007. I also place the Template:Political parties in Donetsk People's Republic on discussion for deletion due to the original research.

Others however are completely bogus and have no real supporting references. Such is the Communist Party of the Donetsk People's Republic. The article itself states that the so-called party was merged. The article was created by the user user:AsharaDayne who is banned now. Same goes to the List of political parties in the Donetsk People's Republic and Template:Political parties in Donetsk People's Republic. Also, the article gives impression that the party consist of one person, its leader, who simply changed from Ukraine to DPR. I think we may leave that article in place if good references would be provided. I think all communist parties as political parties of the Communist Party of the Russian Federation anyway. So, there is a really a little room to argue about.

I also suggested the Template:Donetsk People's Republic topics on the reason that it is based on original research. One of its categories is Geography. There is nothing in the world written about "Geography of the DPR" or "Culture of the DPR". And I do see how historical Russian guberniya Novorossiya really relates to this "republic". Even the main ideologist Andrei Purgin claimed the origin of the Donetsk People's Republic from the Donetsk–Krivoy Rog Soviet Republic. I think I provided his interview on the Purgin's article. I know that there are some similar political entities existed, but it seems that the template was composed by someone who is completely clueless in the history or politics of Ukraine and the history of Russian Empire.

I placed afd for Peace for Lugansk Region. The article's issue were not addressed for some time. The organizations is not a party. Some references are based on a Russian propaganda source and fails WP:V. Questionable is also the article on New Russia Party. It states that party merged after it existed for less than a month. At least it is moreless well referenced.

Also, coming back to the article on Bolotov, for which you mentioned this diff. Psychonaut, removed my categorization stating that the are no text in the article that mentions that. I did not challenge. I introduced a sentence explaining his status. Also, Bolotov is on the SBU wanted list for separatism (Article 110, part 2 of the Criminal Code of Ukraine, encroaches on the territorial integrity of Ukraine).

I had impression that I presented valid arguments for deletion of above-mentioned articles, instead I am being accused of political bias and based on that my arguments are being kicked aside. That is what I am trying to say. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 12:47, 24 January 2015 (UTC)


 * I am may be politically biased, but it is strange that some articles are being kept just in spite of me. I guess only the patriots of DPR could really challenge those articles for others it is taboo. Is that really the reason? It is simply ridiculous. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 12:50, 24 January 2015 (UTC)


 * What is guarantee that another admin would not go further and without warning simply block me without any discussions? Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 13:04, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Here is just a few very general points (I wrote my opinion/advice about this here). (a) You edit in a subject area covered by discretionary sanctions, so you should read this. So, yes, you can be restricted and blocked, however you and others have certain rights. First of all, if you received a warning from an admin and do not understand why, you should politely ask him about this on his talk page, and he suppose to explain it with diffs, so that the reason for the warning is immediately obvious for you and anyone around. That did not happen. On the other hand, if you claim something about others, like being harassed, you should provide diffs, so that the alleged harassment is immediately obvious. That did not happen. Note that issuing you a proper warning by admin is not harassment. I hope it helps. Sorry, but I do not have time for this any more. My very best wishes (talk) 15:03, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
 * , my apologies for taking your time, however, your statement that I did not address the issue with the user on his talk page is not true, please check User talk:DGG. I agree about consensus mentioned by DGG, however, as I mentioned before some articles were created by a blocked user and could be subject for deletion. DGG claimed that is completely groundless. Is that really so and do I really deserved to be treated so? I asked for a second opinion from another administrator who said that such behavior is strange (user talk:DDima). I simply want to point out the fact that I acted based on wikipedia policies rather than going out and blindly deleting stuff without any consideration. I do not have intention to dramatize the issue, but rather to raise a flag. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 15:30, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Also, some time ago I had several users, among which is user:Yoshi24517, nominating articles for speedy deletion without finding a consensus first (such as user talk:Aleksandr Grigoryev). User DGG never intervened on those matters. I never went on with threats about disruptive editing, but rather follow up with the articles and improved them (if I could). Now I have all kinds of people accusing me of political bias and nationalism. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 16:18, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Unlike the so called "political parties of the Donetsk People's Republic", the Laborious Ukraine Electoral Bloc at least was a real registered political entity. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 16:20, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I do not see anything disruptive in my edits and worth to be formally warned of blocking. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 16:22, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Apparently he issued you a warning for this. Not only you nearly made a WP:3RR violation, but using "speedy" tag in this manner was against the rules. Perhaps you did not know it, but you had to ask the user who reverted your edit, rather than revert his edits. Was that the reason for your AN request? If so, then instead of admitting your mistake, you filed a battleground request to AN. Do not you see it? My very best wishes (talk) 16:50, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
 * , OK, I think we are heading somewhere now. First of all, why is that me who in WP:3RR violation? I do not think the removal of a tag is the way to contest the proposed deletion. Second of all, that is not how DGG explained it to me. Third of all, the user who removed the edit could have explain the obviousness of removal or contest the nomination. I think I explained very well reasons for nominating. That other user only commented that the removal is obvious. Next thing I know I have DGG throwing accusations in disruptive editing, vandalism and formal warning without reasoning with me. How is that my mistake? If I was in violation of WP:3RR, it should be stated in that formal warning, instead I am accused in disruptive editing. Still, I do not see what so disruptive about it. If it was due to technicality of nomination, I would admit my mistake; if not, I do not see the purpose of accusations in my address. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 17:10, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
 * The template is obviously based on made up information and in violation of WP:original research. I stated it in my nomination, I think. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 17:13, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Moreover, the template is created by a user who is currently blocked. With whom should have I find consensus first? Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 17:15, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Also, I know we have this political situation right now and many users come up with various stuff. But I think any disputed issues should first be well documented, second we should not use our administrative resources exclusively to prove a point. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 17:24, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, if you do not understand something, as you tell in your edit summary, you suppose to ask at talk page, rather than revert, which in that case can be reasonably qualified as POV-pushing by you. Looking at this, an admin issued you a warning. That looks to me pretty much as a legitimate admin. action. However, your complaint about this to AN was not legitimate, to tell this politely (see above). If you do not understand it, that's your problem.My very best wishes (talk) 17:32, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
 * , I apologize for infringe on 3RR. Why DGG did not stated it in the first place? Would it not be a more constructive method trying to reason? According to this edit, the user obviously suspects me in vandalism. Once again, I tried to reason with the user, yet he continues to have me listed on his vandalism list. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 17:54, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
 * And what about my arguments to the article? Are they being simply ignored? Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 17:56, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
 * , I re-read the history of edition on the Template:Donetsk People's Republic topics. I guess I am out of line here. My apology. Please, withdraw the AN notification. I will be more thorough next time and talk to someone else before addressing issues to AN. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 18:23, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
 * , nah, user:My very best wishes convinced me that I am wrong. I guess I missed the pointer to move tag the article appropriately. I am the one who need to apologize. I guess I did not know that templates have certain other procedures. I could not imagine to treat them other than a regular article. Sorry, if it ruined your day and, please, don't keep a grudge. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 18:34, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
 * all's OK. I never make too much of a single incident.  DGG ( talk ) 05:54, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

Patronymic template
Hi Aleksandr. Quick question: Is it O.K. to use this template: Eastern Slavic name? Because I see that a lot of articles on Russian people don't use it, yet its present in many Ukrainian biographies, such as Petro Poroshenko and the rest. So, I added it to some individuals, but my question is should I persist or it will be viewed as annoyance? Also, if its bothering some editors I can remove it from the articles that I put it in. Many thanks in advance.--Mishae (talk) 19:35, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
 * , personally I do not find it bothersome. I think it is useful as it eliminates disambiguity for people not familiar with the Russian Orthodox culture. Some users or viewer may find it annoying, though. I do not see anything wrong in introducing it to each article related to people from the East Slavic culture. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 19:57, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I will ask Bakharev as well. I was just shocked that only 1% of the whole articles relating to either Russians or Ukrainians use this template.--Mishae (talk) 20:01, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Municipality or Council?
What do you think? Is it reasonable that we keep the titles as "Municipality" (cf. Yalta Municipality) to refer to cities of regional significance (city councils) and just plain "Council" to refer to the other local government areas such as Settlement/Village Council articles (cf. Dolynske Council instead of naming it Dolynske Village Council)? I feel like there should be a separation between cities and their local government areas and other types of settlements and their local government ares because cities carry much more stature and regional importance. Hence the difference in naming. § DDima 18:38, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
 * , thank you for asking me that. I also wanted to talk about it. I believe there is a great deal of ambiguity in local government definitions. In my perception city and city of regional (oblast, republican) significance or city of district significance are two different terms. In the first instance the term implies a populated places, in other - a municipality as a territorial subdivision of region. There is too little information on that matter available online and practically no real explanation of the origin. It seems to me that cities municipalities derived from the Russian city municipalities (gradonachalstvo). The use of council is also only adds ambiguity as council cannot really be a form of government, but rather sets rules. It seems that council in the given situation means rather a board or a commission (such as in Council–manager government). I think municipality would a good way to interpret the Soviet term of council. For your mentioned example Dolynske Village Council could be reinterpreted as Dolynske Rural Municipality (please, check Rural municipality). Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 20:01, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
 * In short, I think we should adopt following interpretations, city municipality for miskrada and rural municipality for silrada. For selyshchna rada there should be municipality of urban settlement or township. Note, that on many occasions a territory of such municipality often coincides with a populated place and in my opinion such a fact should be mentioned. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 20:09, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

1966 Shevchenko National Prize winners
Regarding a edit you made on the 21st of December, 2010 here, do you have any idea of what you used as a source? As you can see Petro Panch is redlinked, so I want to make a article/stub (depending on amount of sources). Thanks! Acalycine (talk /contribs) 10:04, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
 * , I used the Ukrainian Wikipedia or sometimes its Russian equivalent if the latter would have more external links and websources. If your Russian is fine, I suggest you to check there the article on Petro Panch (Pyotr Panch). Russians like Ukrainians for some reason translate each other names. I guess it some kind of a tradition. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 12:20, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Will look at it. Regards, Acalycine (talk /contribs) 07:55, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Galicia edit
Hi, Aleksandr, I've noticed you have edited the Galicia article and I was wondering if you could check this diff done by an IP account to see if it is correct. Thanks! Liz Read! Talk!</b> 20:36, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
 * , yea. Well, that edit is done by someone who does not speak English language. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 21:12, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

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Help with a user?
Hey, I saw that you posted recently on WP:UKRAINE and that you speak Ukrainian. Would you be interested in helping out Prunelle025? They recently created two articles on subjects that are Ukranian-based (books that discuss the country and specifically the city of Lviv) and the way they wrote the articles gives off the impression that they aren't very fluent in English and may have relied heavily on a translation program. The articles almost give off the impression that they may not speak English at all and only used a translation program, so they would definitely need someone who spoke their language, which is likely Ukrainian. Want to give it a whirl? If it does end up that they don't really read/speak English, it may be better to point them towards the Ukrainian Wikipedia and/or to suggest that they request English articles via the Ukraine WP for the time being. I don't want to discourage them but I also kind of don't want them to really create articles before they're ready. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)   04:46, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
 * , I have nothing to follow on your proposal. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 05:03, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

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Anti-Ukrainian sentiment, please see links
There is a lot of commotion on List of coups d'état and coup attempts by country and List of coups d'état and coup attempts since 2010 by a biased User:Endukiejunta who is continually pushing pro-Russian POV edits, while regarding our revolution as that of a "coup." Please visit the talk pages here and here to set him straight. His edits have no place on Wikipedia. <span style="display:inline-block;padding:0 .5em;line-height:1.25em;border:1px solid #CAD4E7; font-family:'Lucida Grande'; -moz-border-radius: 3px; -webkit-border-radius: 3px; border-radius: 3px; background:#ECEEF5;">§ DDima 22:19, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

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Please help
If you're around, I could use your help. You do a great amount of good article work, and I was wondering if you'd help develop a new article on Nelya Shtepa. I understand that her situation is being discussed a lot in the Ukrainian media, and it was just mentioned in a UN report I was reading. Hence, I created the article. However, I can't read the sources, so it is hard for me to work on it. It seems right up your alley. RGloucester — ☎ 19:25, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

template: historic regions of Ukraine
Hi, reverted some major changes you made to this template. I agree that the previous state was a bit unwieldy, but I think the kind of changes you made would require re-purposing and possibly re-naming the template, and for that I think there needs to be consensus. Please let me know what you think. --Kevlar (talk • contribs) 19:07, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

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Proposed deletion of Nostalgia after the USSR
Hello, Aleksandr Grigoryev. I wanted to let you know that I’m proposing an article that you started, Nostalgia after the USSR, for deletion because I don't think it meets our criteria for inclusion. If you don't want the article deleted:


 * 1) edit the page
 * 2) remove the text that looks like this:
 * 3) save the page

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You can leave a note on my talk page if you have questions. Kunalforyou (talk) 13:22, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

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Urban-type settlements
I've asked similar questions concerning this statistical and administrative designation for towns in Ukraine, before, but are the listings on the article List of urban-type settlements in Ukraine by subdivision listings of urban-type settlements regardless or not of whether they have that administrative designation, or is it just administrative urban-type settlements? Could that be made more clear on that page, since that kind of designation can be statistical, administrative, or both? It appears to me from what I'm beginning to understand that while ALL settlements designation as urban-type settlements by statistical definition, that not all statistical urban-type settlements have a corresponding urban-type settlement administration. That is to say that an urban-type settlement in a statisical sense can be governed by a settlement council, but could also just be a settlement within a raion or city with no corresponding settlement council. --Criticalthinker (talk) 08:08, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I think you are overthinking it. Practically each populated place in Ukraine regardless whether it is urban-settlement, city, village are all have own council that govern them. Depending on type of the place, those councils are called after them. Rural settlements are less common and usually do not have separate councils, so are private cottage villages (dacha settlements). Councils are pretty much your primary or basic territorial subdivision of Ukraine. They could be seen also as municipalities. In villages, councils are small and headed by a head of village (holova) who also appoints his or her executive cabinet that is some other four to five people. Urban settlements are usually bigger (but not always) therefore have bigger councils. The head of settlement council often has a similar type of executive committee as in a regular village. Cities are a bit different. First of all they are categorized into three categories depending on their significance (district, region, or special status). Second of all may have their own subdivisions depending on the decision of the city's community. Third of all each city has its own mayor, elections of which are conducted separately. All councils, village, urban settlement, city compose your rayon (district), while regional municipality are treated as such. The before mentioned are in their order part of a region such as oblast or an autonomous republic in case of Crimea. At the same time special status municipalities (cities with special status) are designated as a separate region. I hope my explanation helped. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 10:06, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm asking specifically about urban-type settlements and their respective councils. I understand the other kinds of councils/administrations (city and village/rural councils). I'm asking specifically about the page I linked to. --Criticalthinker (talk) 10:58, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
 * All urban-settlements have own settlement council. I am not certain about statistical point of view on it, but all settlement councils are subordinated to districts (rayon) or regional municipalities. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 09:46, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks. So every territorial unit listed as an "urban-type settlement" on that list has a corresponding settlement council.  That's all I was really asking.  I was under the impression that you could have settlement/territory called an urban-type settlement, but that it wasn't necessarily governed as an urban-type settlement in the administrative sense.  So, an "urban-type settlement" is always and administrative division. --Criticalthinker (talk) 11:39, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
 * , yep. There is nothing really special. In fact most populated places have own council except for rural settlements. Councils of cities of regional significance administer the city proper and the surrounding municipality that may or not include adjacent populated places with own councils which are subordinated to the corresponding councils of municipality that belong. I hope the last statement made any sense. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 23:00, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, that last sentence made sense. I guess what was confusing me was that unlike here in the United States with a few exceptions, "cities" here are usually always on the level of what in Ukraine would be urban-type and village/settlement councils.  It seems that in Ukraine, a settlement with a city council is always administratively seperate of the district/raion that may surround it.  In the United States, save for a few cases where a city and a county have consolidated into one entity, a city council is always an administrative level below the surrounding county; a county in America seems to be on the same administrative level as a raion or city in Ukraine.  Just as an example, here in my homestate of Michigan, the City of Detroit while still a fairly large city has the same level of administrative "significance" as the small neighboring community of River Rouge.  Both of these communities, despite differences of size and economic importance, are equal in administrative significance under our states constitution, and both communities are within the jurisdiction Wayne County, meaning that these cities don't exist respectively as their own counties like they would in Ukraine.  In Ukraine, from what I can tell, a city like Detroit would be a "city of regional or oblast significance" or at least a "city of district significance" meaning that it would form its own district totally independent of that of surrounding Wayne County. Anyway, I'm just rambling, but I hope that shows you my thought process. --Criticalthinker (talk) 07:22, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Out of technicality, you should also consider that any council has own executive committee, so locally there still is your legislative form of government and executive. Judicial form government starts from districal division (2nd level of country's division). The head of village council or settlement council acts as the head of legislation and municipality, while being elected among the members of local council. In cities there are special mayoral elections, in which residents of each city elect own mayor. The only city that does not have a mayor is the city of Sevastopol, while mayor of the city of Kiev acts as both mayor and city's governor (head of city state administration). Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 23:09, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Olha Sumska


The article Olha Sumska has been proposed for deletion because it appears to have no references. Under Wikipedia policy, this biography of a living person will be deleted unless it has at least one reference to a reliable source that directly supports material in the article.

If you created the article, please don't be offended. Instead, consider improving the article. For help on inserting references, see Referencing for beginners, or ask at the help desk. Once you have provided at least one reliable source, you may remove the prod blp tag. Please do not remove the tag unless the article is sourced. If you cannot provide such a source within seven days, the article may be deleted, but you can when you are ready to add one. Jbh (talk) 21:24, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

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your tag in the Abkhazia article
Hi! Could you explain what kind of clarification is necessary here? Alæxis¿question? 18:13, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
 * , first of all, why combatant and not militant? Combatants are members of Armed Forces and carry corresponding insignia. Was that so with the Abkhazian side? It looks very like that the so-called separatists were in fact the Russian military servicemen as the Russian Federation has a military base in Gudauta. Very similar episode took place with annexation of Crimea. Who could guarantee that any Russian soldiers based in Gadauta or near Georgia at that time did not participate in the conflict? Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 01:17, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
 * , this report (GEORGIA/ABKHAZIA: VIOLATIONS OF THE LAWS OF WAR AND RUSSIA'S ROLE IN THE CONFLICT (March 1995)) calls them fighters and provides a valid suspect that there was no Abkhazian separatists, but simply Russian soldiers who call themselves so. It is exactly like the Russian Federation fights today in Donbas. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 10:17, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, I've used the term because it's used in the report. The definition of combatant is "a person, group, or country that fights in a war or battle" which seems suitable and NPOV in this case. Btw this report covers Russia's role in this conflict nicely, I've used it a lot in WP. Alæxis¿question? 18:58, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I think fighter suits better. Merriam-webster also gives good explanation. Combatant is more technical and usually applies for uniformed military servicemen which in case of so-called "Abkhazian separatists" with Russian or Soviets passports could barely be the case. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 20:50, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
 * , the war in Abkhazia was a Russian proxy war against Georgia using local criminals and own dressed up soldiers acting as "separatists". Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 20:53, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

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Category:Roads in Ukraine by Oblast
The Roads in Ukraine by Oblast category tree, which you created, has been nominated for purging and merging. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. RevelationDirect (talk) 14:26, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

Category:Metropolitans of Kiev and all Rus'
Please see Categories_for_discussion/Log/2015_February_21, where an editor has asked you to clarify your opinion. – Fayenatic  L ondon 17:50, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

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A question :)
Hello Aleksandr!

I have a question and I wondered whether you perhaps knew the answer to it. Its about the Russo-Persian War (1722–23). During this war, the Cossack Hetmanate under Apostol joined the war upon Peters request, but I'm not sure, was the Cossack Hetmanate subordinate to Russia at that time already? In 1722-1723? Because for now I have added the hetmanate as a "subordinate" ally for Imperial Russia by the "*" sign, but I wanted to be sure about this.

Appreciate it if you have any comment to say about this. ;-)

Bests - LouisAragon (talk) 12:55, 7 June 2015 (UTC)
 * , Apostol became the Hetman of Zaporizhian Host not until 1727. He however could have led Zaporizhian Host in a battle. The Cossack Hetmanate at that period was governed by the Collegium of Little Russia and led by Stepan Velyaminov. The acting hetman Pavlo Polubotok was never confirmed by the Russian government. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 02:47, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

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Ievhen Streltsov article renaming
Hi. How can we get back previous name (Ievgen) as it's written in the international passport for (Streltsov Ievgen)? Thanks, - Dragunovsky 11:44, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
 * You can mention it in the article, I guess. It seems that his name was recorded according to the Romanization of Ukrainian in Wikipedia. About the passport, I should say that it is not an ultimate document and could be inaccurate especially from Ukraine. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 00:27, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
 * The article seems to have multiple other more important issues. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 00:29, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

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Nomination of FC Arsenal Kiev (1925) for deletion
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FC Arsenal Kiev (1925)

 * Please say your opinion here: Articles for deletion/FC Arsenal Kiev (1925) (because you are an article creator). 46.200.31.84 (talk) 19:23, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

SPI
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Warning
Your recent edits at Annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation, especially this one, display overt tendentiousness and irresponsible disregard for WP:NPOV. You will be blocked or topic-banned from the area if you make edits like these again. Fut.Perf. ☼ 15:16, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Fut.Perf. ☼ 15:16, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

I apologize, but it is in the referenced article, without that information it sounds like Ukrainian authorities discriminate Russians in the country, which totally wrong. I really did not mean to offend you or anyone else with that. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 16:52, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I agree that the article brings up opinion of some third parties, but just a plain sentence as it is in the Wikipedia article shows discrimination of the Ukrainian government against Russian minority. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 17:36, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
 * , here is another website that calls Russian propaganda relentless (BBC). Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 18:28, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of File:Flag of Niederösterreich.svg


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Nomination for deletion of Template:Western European colonization of Ukraine
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Ruthenian / Russian medieval princes
Please join this category discussion: Categories_for_discussion/Log/2015_November_6. Marcocapelle (talk) 23:02, 6 November 2015 (UTC)


 * This is a question not really related to the merge proposal, it's just that I am curious. You wrote: "I urge to check the article on Ruthenians rather than Rus' people. As I said before Rus is a transliteration of the Russian adaptation, in other words non-English word." However, the article Rus' people suggests that Rus' refers to the medieval ruling class who were supposedly of Norse descent. Is this a matter of a POV fork? Marcocapelle (talk) 08:57, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Championship of the Ukrainian SSR
Can you improve Championship of the Ukrainian SSR the performance by club, is a mess there, is not correct, where is Dinamo Kiev titles and other teams titles. Thanks!--Alexiulian25 (talk) 20:20, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

Reference errors on 17 November
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 * Thank you,, Merry Christmans to you as well. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 06:04, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

Thank you and invitation
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Cossack Hetmanate again
Can you take a look at article Cossack Hetmanate again? There is a user who insists to say in the infobox that it was an Ottoman protectorate and sanjak. One some level, the some Hetmans did ask the Ottomans for help and got limited recognition form the Ottomans. But the Ottomans never did truly become an Ottoman vassal state because the Ottomans didn't follow through and consolidate the Cossack Hetmanate into its domain. Placing it in the infobox also puts WP:UNDUE weight on the multi-vectored foreign policy of the Cossack Hetmanate. Regardless, I would appreciate your input.--BoguSlav 20:47, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

Interesting Alexis Ivanov (talk) 03:54, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
 * , I was thinking in creating an article about it, by the way. Of course, Cossack Hetmanate never was part of theOttoman Empire, at least not in whole. However, the right bank Ukraine under the leadership of Petro Doroshenko was known as a Khanate Ukraine. Before that Doroshenko managed to unite Ukraine on both banks of Dnieper, but a new Polish offensive forced him to defend the right bank, while on the left he left Demian Mnohohrishny who pretty much sold him out. Doroshenko than managed to conclude an alliance with Turkey to fight on both fronts against Poles and Muscovites and was granted status of bey or sanjakbey. After defeat by Samoylovych, Ottomans tried to install Yuriy Khmelnytsky in his position on the request of the French Envoy in the Ottoman Empire, because Khmelnytsky at that time was a political prisoner in Turkey. The whole idea however fell through. The last known ruler of the Khanate Ukraine was a Moldavian George Ducas (Please, check notes under a table at the Hetman of Zaporizhian Host article). I read about the subject in some of history books and Ukrainian Wikipedia. At that time however Ukraine was split in spheres of influence between three powers: Muscovy, Ottamans, and Polish Rzecz Pospolita. As a sanjak of the Ottoman Empire, Cossack Hetmanate never was, but the southern region of it with its capital in Chyhyryn did as well as Podolia (see Podolia Eyalet). Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 06:08, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
 * , also please check the article about the Grand Vizier Kara Mustafa Pasha who managed to ley the siege of Vienna where he was defeated at the famous and one the biggest battles in the European history Battle of Vienna. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 06:15, 19 January 2016 (UTC)


 * I never claimed that "Cossack Hetmanate was part of the Ottoman Empire.". Alexis Ivanov (talk) 06:56, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
 * , Cossack Hetmanate never was fully under protectorate of the Ottoman Empire either. A portion of it was, because it was difficult for Doroshenko to fight by himself against both Poles and Muscovites. On the other hand, left bank Ukraine (also Cossack Hetmanate) was part of the Muscovite protectorate, while the northern portion was part of the Polish Crown. But you rather put the fact that it was under protectorate of the Ottoman Empire only. I guess for the purpose to justify why Muscovites moved towards the Black Sea shores, rather to admit the fact that Ukraine at the time was for grabs by all major powers in the region. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 07:26, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
 * , I would suggest you to familiarize yourself more with the term of sanjak which is an administrative division of the Ottoman Empire. So how is it not claiming Cossack Hetmanate part of the Ottoman Empire??? Moreover, sanjaks were second-level administrative division (see Administrative divisions of the Ottoman Empire), Khanate Ukraine was granted sanjak status temporarily out of Bratslav Voivodeship and southern portion of Kiev Voivodeship, while Polish Podolia Voivodeship was converted into an eyelet (province) (see article on Petro Doroshenko). Please note, not the whole Cossack Hetmanate became a sanjak, but its portion. Why do not you read more rather than putting some random stuff on Wikipedia. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 07:40, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
 * It was fully a protectorate in June 1699, when Doroshenko had the control of all Ukraine after getting rid of Briukhovetsky in the previous year. I'm also familiar with the word Sanjak 100%, and I realize it is a district of a province known as Eyalet, I have studied the Ottoman Empire for some years to know this at the back of my head. Also it was never called Khanate Ukraine as far as I'm aware and you can correct me on that because Khanate implied some form of post-Golden Horde Kingdom. In fact it was known as simply Ukraniya/Ukrayna Memleketi based on Ahmed Köprülü letter to Polish envoy, I'm noting some form of hostility and accusation in your last remark especially with the word "random" my edits are detailed and precise far from random, I would recommend into not dwelling in that terriritoy I will give you the benefit of doubt since you are a veteran Wikipedian User whose work I have watched. Tread lightly. Alexis Ivanov (talk) 07:51, 19 January 2016 (UTC)


 * , on the other hand the real Cossack Hetmanate continued to exist on the left bank Ukraine after the Treaty of Andrusovo. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 07:49, 19 January 2016 (UTC)


 * As oppose to fake Cossack Hetmanate on the right bank? Alexis Ivanov (talk) 07:51, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
 * , it seems that you like to mock people, are you not? Cossack Hetmanate was split in Treaty of Andrusovo, after which Petro Doroshenko tried to recover the sovereignty over the whole area. His legitimacy became in question since the Russian government install Mnohohrishny as Hetman of Cossack Hetmanate. Doroshenko along with Turks led assault against the Polish Crown and recover some territories on which previously were recreated Bratslav Voivodeship and Kiev Voivodeship, while Turks left Podolia under their direct jurisdiction. Now since the Treaty of Andrusovo, both Bratslav and Kiev voivodeships were not part of Cossack Hetmanate that was secure by the Tsardom of Muscovy. The territories gained by Doroshenko are known in the history as the Khanate Ukraine, not Cossack Hetmanate. That is your "fake" Cossack Hetmanate. I gave you a lot of pointers, yet in return you continue to ridicule and mock me. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 08:07, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

''>The territories gained by Doroshenko are known in the history as the Khanate Ukraine, not Cossack Hetmanate. That is your "fake" Cossack Hetmanate.'' How can something real be fake? And still no answer where the Khanate Ukraine comes from. >I gave you a lot of pointers, yet in return you continue to ridicule and mock me Please direct me where did I rediculed and mocked you? You are the one who started mocking my edits and calling "random" and indicated a level of hostility in your remarks, and I said I will give you a the benefit of doubt and ignore those remakrs, and yet you accuse me Alexis Ivanov (talk) 08:19, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I actually like giving people some warm Banana Cake. I don't like mocking people. Did I mocked you?
 * OK,, do not take it wrong way, but could you please provide more information on the subject within the article so it does not look like it is completely of the wall? Putting this stuff in infobox without any information within the article makes people believe that it could be random stuff. It seems like a pretty strong claim especially protectorate in 1655-1663. I only know about the Khmelnytsky's treaty of 1651. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 09:04, 19 January 2016 (UTC)


 * , also your claim about protectorate puts the Soviet propaganda poster into a trash bin and the whole transfer of Crimea which was done on the wave of celebration of the 300 Anniversary seems like completely groundless. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 10:07, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
 * And another thing, it was full protectorate not in June of 1669, but rather on May 1, 1669 (Encyclopedia of Ukraine) when sultan Mehmed IV confirmed the alliance, on which the Korsun General Council agreed two months prior. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 10:18, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

''>It seems like a pretty strong claim especially protectorate in 1655-1663. I only know about the Khmelnytsky's treaty of 1651.'' There is also the 1655 document titled "Göttingen Codex" issued by the Ottoman as an ahdname. >also your claim about protectorate puts the Soviet propaganda poster into a trash bin and the whole transfer of Crimea which was done on the wave of celebration of the 300 Anniversary seems like completely groundless. I'm not following your argument, Soviet and pro-Russian propaganda have enormous to gain from diminishing or exaggeration things, I take it with a cup of Salt. >And another thing, it was full protectorate not in June of 1669, but rather on May 1, 1669 (Encyclopedia of Ukraine) when sultan Mehmed IV confirmed the alliance, on which the Korsun General Council agreed two months prior. The June 1669 is when the Patent was granted "Doroshenko all of Cossack Ukraine as an Ottoman Sancak or province" This same patent is preserved in Moscow. Alexis Ivanov (talk) 01:59, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I have already provided the information as Iryna requested. I'm working on adding more information on the history page per the request of Toddy, I'm reading articles.

Here is a quote from the book, The European Tributary States of the Ottoman Empire in the Sixteenth and Seventeenth Centuries, that show that it is very difficult to consider the Cossack Hetmanate a vassal of the Ottoman Empire: "So to what degree was Cossack Ukraine an Ottoman entity in this period? Since Islamic-style tribute (harac) was never imposed and scarcely discussed, technically speaking, we cannot call the hetmanate an Ottoman tributary. This is, of course, why we have preferred the term “vassal,” of course not in the original Western medieval sense, but in the sense of the relationship between a subject state and a suzerain, a state in which there are mutual obligations—mainly non-aggression and protection of the subject by the suzerain in exchange for, when needed, military service by the subject on behalf of the suzerain, and possibly rendering tribute." Therefore, it is a very ambiguous label of "vassal", with many qualifications. So, the mutual obligations were only non-agression and protection of the subject in exchange for military service by the subject. This sounds a lot more like a military alliance, such as Israel and the United States. No one calls Israel a vassal of the United States. Here is another quote from the book: "The “multiple ambiguity” of Ukraine’s situation in these years was crucial in deciding the nature of relations with the Porte and, for that matter, with all the surrounding powers. The multiple systems in which Khmelnytsky operated dictated that his relations with the surrounding powers remained as fluid, murky, and as undefined as possible. Similarly, Doroshenko, even while a subject of the Ottomans, maintained contacts with Poland and Muscovy, and continually explored possibilities of rapprochement with either or both of them in the event the vicissitudes of the international situation required him to abandon his Ottoman orientation." The Ukrainian-Ottoman relationship was an ambiguous one, even when Doroshenko was in charge (who the Ottomans considered to be their subject). Another quote: "That the Ottomans were not inclined to develop their control in Ukraine and instead left it as it was and went on to fight a probably even more dangerous war for Vienna tells us much about Ottoman goals and policy in the northern Black Sea region." Here is more proof that the Ottomans never incorporated the Cossack Hetmanate as their territory, and only had loose control over it. One does not simply abandon a fully-incorporated, subdued territory. The Hetmanate remained autonomous.

As for the region of Podolia that you mentioned, this had nothing to do with the Hetmanate. The Ottomans conquered Podolia from the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, not from the Cossack Hetmanate. In fact, the Hetmanate had more privileges than the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. The Poles paid tribute to the Ottomans and lost their territory (Podolia), while the Cossack Hetmanate remained the same size and didn't pay tribute (harac), as the first quote above says. Here is the quote from the book: "In October the Ottomans and Commonwealth forces reached an agreement at Buchach, where a treaty known by the same name was signed. According to it, the province of Podolia was ceded to the Ottoman Empire, the Commonwealth agreed to pay a yearly tribute, and Right-Bank Cossack Ukraine maintained autonomy under Ottoman protection."

Finally, the Ottomans even called Cossack Hetmanate as the "country of Ukraine" (Ukrayna memleketi) (page 145 of the book).

And some more proof that the Cossack land was not occupied: "Rather than occupying and defending the Cossack land of Doroshenko, the Ottomans directed their thrust further west against Kamianets’, the magnificent fortress that guarded some important routes into both Ukraine and Poland."

Another quote that speaks to the same tune. The Hetmanate was only used as a buffer zone : "From the Ottoman decision to take the best part (Podolia) for themselves, one gets the impression that they were skeptical about the viability of Cossack Ukraine as a polity, even as a vassal. Its instability made them treat it as, at best, a frontier bufffer zone."

My point is that the relationship was ambiguous and not one-sided. The Ottomans did not station their troops in the Hetmanate (even despite their agreement with Doroshenko install 1,000 janissaries in Kodak) and this means that they did not consolidate the Hetmanate as a vassal state. They simply used the Hetmanate as an excuse to conquer the region of Podolia and thought of the Cossack land as a buffer zone. They called the Cossack Hetmanate the "country of Ukraine" and when things started to get more complicated in their war with Austria-Hungary, they simply abandoned Ukraine, because they were never very invested in the first place. Unlike other Ottoman vassal states, the Hetmanate did not pay tribute (harac) and the only mutual obligations between the Hetman and the sultan were that when the Hetmanate needed protection, the sultan would grant it, and when the Ottomans needed military assistance, the hetman would grant it. The relationship of the Cossack Hetmanate and Ottoman Empire was always murky and ambiguous, but seems like a the only mutual obligations were military assistance.--BoguSlav 21:55, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

It is actually very clear, it is the term the book used because it’s the closest term we have. ''> So, the mutual obligations were only non-agression and protection of the subject in exchange for military service by the subject. This sounds a lot more like a military alliance, such as Israel and the United States.'' Israel and United States relationship is a false analogy towards the Cossack Hetmanate and the Ottoman Empire relationship. There is always a mutual obligations between the Ottomans and their varies vassals that they have agreed upon doesn’t mean it is a military alliance, with your logic, the Ottoman Empire had a military alliance with Moldavia when in fact the Moldavia as a vassal is required to send military assistance to the Ottoman in time of war and in time the Ottomans needs them. > The Ukrainian-Ottoman relationship was an ambiguous one, even when Doroshenko was in charge (who the Ottomans considered to be their subject). Yet it was a formal relationship, “While in the case of Doroshenko we have both an Ottoman original and an Ottoman copy of a patent of investiture – the nişan /berat cited above – that leaves no doubt as to his formal relationship to the Porte, for Khmelnytsky the most solid document attesting formal vassal status is the sultan’s letter to him from mid-1655, also cited above. However, Na’ima’s chronicle under the year 1063/1653 maintains the in this year Khmelnytsky was granted some of the standard symbols of investiture – the banner (‘alem) and drum (tabl), along with a patent (berat) granting him his territories as an Ottoman province (eyalet)." > Here is more proof that the Ottomans never incorporated the Cossack Hetmanate as their territory, and only had loose control over it. They are still a vassal. Ottomans don’t need to incorporate a territory in their Empire to become a vassal. > One does not simply abandon a fully-incorporated, subdued territory. The Ottoman Empire does. They did it with multiple vassals they had. Look at the Georgian, Circassian, Crimean vassals for more evidence. > The Hetmanate remained autonomous. You can be autonomous and a vassal, Republic of Ragusa is a great example of that. ''> As for the region of Podolia that you mentioned, this had nothing to do with the Hetmanate. The Ottomans conquered Podolia from the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, not from the Cossack Hetmanate.'' I never said or implied they conquered from the Cossack Hetmanate. > The Poles paid tribute to the Ottomans and lost their territory (Podolia), while the Cossack Hetmanate remained the same size and didn't pay tribute (harac), as the first quote above says. Yes because Ottomans didn’t collect tributes from certain vassals, that includes the Crimean Khanate and the Cossack Hetmamate, yet they are required per agreement that they give military assistance to the Ottoman Empire, Republic of Ragusa has an opposite, they pay tribute and are not required to give military assistance, Moldavia and Wallachia are required both, to give tribute and to give military assistance. Also even though the Polish payed tribute they were never a vassal, and the Ottomans were never their overlords. > Finally, the Ottomans even called Cossack Hetmanate as the "country of Ukraine" (Ukrayna memleketi) (page 145 of the book). I said that towards the person I replied to you. > And some more proof that the Cossack land was not occupied: It doesn’t need to be occupied to be a vassal. > The Hetmanate was only used as a buffer zone : You can have a vassal and a buffer zone, like the Kurdish Beyliks between Safavid and Ottoman lands, or the Georgian Principalities. > My point is that the relationship was ambiguous and not one-sided. The ambiguity is on the level of vassalage, not if it was or wasn’t a vassalage. Clearly Bogdan called himself a slave towards the Ottoman and used many terminologies to invoke servitude. > The Ottomans did not station their troops in the Hetmanate (even despite their agreement with Doroshenko install 1,000 janissaries in Kodak) They never agreed to station troops on Kodak. The agreement was not to station any troops in Kodak. > and this means that they did not consolidate the Hetmanate as a vassal state. You don’t have to put troops and take over the management of a vassal to be a vassal. > They simply used the Hetmanate as an excuse to conquer the region of Podolia and thought of the Cossack land as a buffer zone. Sorry, but you are very wrong. If you are going to eat up false statement like that I have to question your understanding of the complex situation that has arise when Poland and Ottoman Empire took war in 1672. In fact the book gives us glimpse and summary of the conflict that resulted in Ottoman victory and acquiring of Podolia in Ottoman Empire. As always I make you eat up your false statements, and now you have pushed me to do it again. Are you with me, okay open page 143 from the same book you have. Page 142 talks about the agreement with Doroshenko in 1669, page 143 continues with that and says “Important points in the berat include the broad degree of autonomy granted, the lack of requirement to oay harac, and the Ottoman govenrment’s recongintion of Doroshenko’s authrotity as applying to all of Ukraine: Right-Bank, Left-Bank, and Zaporazhia.” Good You can continue reading until you reach the last paragraph where it says “The Ottomans were unable or unwilling to intervene until two years later when Jan Sobieski, together with the rival candidate for the hetmanate, Mykhailo Khanenko, carried out an offensive against Doroshenko.” So you can blame Poland for bringing the Ottoman Empire into war to save it’s vassal. The war is the Polish–Ottoman War (1672–76), okay now don’t go anywhere go on into the next page and read the letter of the Ottoman grand vizier. I’m guessing you will never blame the Polish forces, in fact Ukraine was close to being an independent if the Muscovite and Polish weren’t so eager to push into Ukraine. Why do you think Doroshenko asked to be a vassal in 1669????????? The same letter is considered a “Declaration of war” by the author. > Unlike other Ottoman vassal states, the Hetmanate did not pay tribute (harac) False, Kurds, Crimean Khanate never payed tribute. Not all Ottomans vassals are equal in what they agreed upon, some are required to do things that others are not required to do. > and the only mutual obligations between the Hetman and the sultan were that when the Hetmanate needed protection, the sultan would grant it, and when the Ottomans needed military assistance, the hetman would grant it. The hetman is the one who is a vassal, he doesn’t grant it, he is required to. > The relationship of the Cossack Hetmanate and Ottoman Empire was always murky and ambiguous, but seems like a the only mutual obligations were military assistance
 * > Therefore, it is a very ambiguous label of "vassal"

The same obligation that the Crimean Khanate had yet they are a vassals Alexis Ivanov (talk) 01:58, 20 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Alexis Ivanov, what you are doing is trying to introduce original research into the discussion. I gave quotations from the source. You are grasping at straws with your attempts to change the meaning of the quotations directly from the book. These are direct citations and you have provided almost none.--BoguSlav 05:12, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

I have never added original research in the Cossack page, you may need to refrain lying through your teeth yet again, I'm sick of tired in how you slithering like a snake with more and more lies, where is the original research?????? Copy and paste here and let's discuss about it. >I gave quotations from the source. And I gave also quotations from the sources. You are the one who sic early not reading the book, I caught you and you take your words back, and I made you do it, I love it when you shut up and go back to into your corner and never reply back on the points and false statements I caught you in, shows you who REALLY READ THE BOOK > You are grasping at straws with your attempts to change the meaning of the quotations directly from the book. I didn't change any meaning. Please bring forth your evidence. > These are direct citations and you have provided almost none I have provided before the day you came here in the discussion, better watch boy, now you are talking silly. Alexis Ivanov (talk)
 * >Alexis Ivanov, what you are doing is trying to introduce original research into the discussion.

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Ukrainian Cup
Can you please look at this article Ukrainian Cup and try to find some refs, maybe in ukrainian language you can find it more easy, some sections needs references. Thank you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.124.251.101 (talk) 21:51, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

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FC Surozh Sudak
Hi Aleksandr, I was wondering whether you could add a bit to this article you created to indicate notability? Currently it looks a bit like a CSD candidate. Thanks. Fenix down (talk) 17:43, 22 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I have just been on a bit of a formatting binge on Ukrainian football clubs and noticed that you seem to have created a large number of similar articles. To be honest, I am not sure what use an article that essentially says "x is a football club from Ukraine" is. Certainly it would seems that they are all eligible for speedy deletion. I won't go through them yet and delete them, as I assume they have been created in good faith, but you need urgently to add some kind of context to support notability even if you can't supply a reference. The articles I noted are:

Let me know if you need any help indicating notability / supplying sources and I will try to do so. thanks. Fenix down (talk) 12:48, 23 February 2016 (UTC)
 * FC Lokomotyv Smila
 * FC Avers Bakhmach
 * FC Lada Chernivtsi
 * FC Metalurh Novomoskovsk
 * FC Shakhtar Horlivka
 * FC Mashynobudivnyk Druzhkivka
 * FC Metalurh Komsomolske
 * FC Pivdenstal Yenakiieve
 * FC VPS Kharkiv
 * FC Tavriya Novotroitske
 * FC Ratusha Kamianets-Podilskyi
 * FC Chaika Kyiv-Sviatoshyn Raion
 * FC Transimpeks Vyshneve
 * FC Dynamo Lviv
 * FC Avanhard Zhydachiv
 * FC SKA-Orbita Lviv
 * SC Skify Lviv
 * SC Dynamo Sloviansk
 * FC Pokuttia Kolomyia
 * FC Vodnyk Mykolaiv
 * FC Dnistrovets Bilhorod-Dnistrovskyi
 * FC Portovyk Chornomorsk
 * FC SKA-Lotto Odessa
 * FC ADOMS Kremenchuk
 * FC Myrhorod
 * FC Sula Lubny
 * FC Vahonobudivnyk Kremenchuk
 * FC Ikva Mlyniv
 * FC Slovyanets Konotop
 * FC Fortuna Sharhorod
 * FC Berkut Bedevlia
 * FC HU ZIDMU-Spartak Zaporizhia
 * FC Keramik Baranivka
 * FC Systema-KKhP Cherniakhiv
 * FC ADOMS Kremenchuk

Source question
Can you please provide a source for this list? Many thanks Buckshot06 (talk) 22:12, 3 March 2016 (UTC)
 * , I posted the article of Ivan Dnestriansky as an external link archived through the wayback machine. That is the only source I managed to find with the help of the Russian Wikipedia. Please, visit the Wikipedia article, but be mindful that the link is in Russian yet has an extensive information as well as description of the whole situation in 1991-92. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 16:51, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks Alex. Buckshot06 (talk) 20:26, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

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Power station entry in Energoatom
In September 2013, you added a list of power stations to Energoatom, one entry in which identifies the location as Oleksandrivka (which points to a disambiguation page) and the coordinates in which are identical to those, apparently correctly, for Yuzhnoukrainsk in the entry immediately above. I am unable to determine which Oleksandrivka is being referred to or what the actual coordinates for this power station should be. Do you still have your sources? And can you check them to see what coordinates they do give? Thanks. PWilkinson (talk) 14:38, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
 * , Oleksandrivka is a small urban-type settlement (town) near Yuzhnoukrainsk (could be considered a suburb, but administrative belongs to Voznesensk Raion). It has a hydroelectric power station which is part of the South Ukrainian Nuclear Power Complex along with such entities like Tashlyk Hydro-Accumulating Electric Power Station. I am not certain what kind of map you are using, but such a populated place does exist and is located in the Voznesensk Raion of Mykolaiv Oblast. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 15:15, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
 * According to the Russian Wikipedia, the hydroelectric power station in Oleksandrivka (built in 1984-1999) is a successor of the Voznesensk hydroelectric power station that was built by the GOELRO plan back in 1927 and was destroyed in 1944 by retrieving German Nazi troops. In 1956 the Voznesensk HES was rebuilt, but later closed down. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 15:23, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
 * I was about to create the article. Possibly I will even do it tomorrow, I am currently creating articles about all urban-type settlements of Mykolaiv Oblast.--Ymblanter (talk) 19:16, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
 * That would certainly clear things out. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 20:09, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
 * The same Oleksandrivka is mentioned in the article about Granite-steppe lands of Buh. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 20:12, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I was using Google Maps - which I find often works well enough for finding even fairly small places, but can easily fail if I don't specify the place exactly enough. As you may have realised, I was trying to disambiguate links to the Oleksandrivka page, and while I realised that this Oleksandrivka was not one of those already listed (I see you have added it since), I was not even aware that there was an Oleksandrivka in Mykolaiv Oblast until I looked at Granite-steppe lands of Buh a few minutes after I left the message above. PWilkinson (talk) 23:17, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

About FC Stal
Yes, a little bit i know about this conflict. But FC Stal played 1 match this year with manager Erik van der Meer and real situation is so, that he is manager (and official UPL Site indicates it). And in mine mind it's not correct that V.Mazyar is indicate as manager if in reality he isn't. But I not want to argue:), and we can leave as you did. Sincerely, --Noel baran (talk) 14:33, 11 March 2016 (UTC)
 * , let's wait one more weekend. If the Dutch coach will be in the match report, we will revert it with more explanation added to the article about situation in the club. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 14:40, 11 March 2016 (UTC)
 * no problems:)--Noel baran (talk) 15:14, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Template:Transfermarkt


A tag has been placed on Template:Transfermarkt, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G4 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page appears to be a repost of material that was previously deleted following a deletion debate,. Under the specified criteria, where a page has substantially identical content to that of a page deleted after debate, and any changes in the content do not address the reasons for which the material was previously deleted, it may be deleted at any time.

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Crimea annexation RFC
I've opened an RFC on Talk: Annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation on the question

"Should the information about opinion polls, currently in the subsection be moved into the subsection ?"

As you recently edited this talk page, I thought you might like to share your views. Kalidasa 777 (talk) 23:46, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

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Unblock
I have nothing to do with WetBulb82. I need to see how my IP address was recently used by that account. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 00:17, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I've lifted the autoblock. You've got thousands of edits on that IP, and you've been the only user (at least in the last few months) on that IP -- until that WetBulb82 account was created while you were editing User talk:The Replicator. There isn't any other useful information to be had, other than that account was created and vandalized; all I can tell you is that it's on the same version of Windows that you're using, but a different browser. --jpgordon:==( o ) 01:15, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
 * , ok, thank you. That is weird. Is there anyway I can prevent from happening again? Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 02:33, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Won't know unless it does happen again. Not enough information from a single event like this. --jpgordon:==( o ) 03:09, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: sandbox (May 9)
<div style="border: solid 1px #FCC; background-color: #F8EEBC; padding: 0.5em 1em; color: #000; margin: 1.5em; width: 90%;"> Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Robert McClenon was:

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Administrative Divisions of Ukraine
I have two questions for you since you seem to know quite a bit about the issue. My first question is if you could take a look at the talk page for the Administrative divisions of Ukraine? I believe the sidebar on the article "Ukraine subdivisions sidebar" needs to be corrected to remove, again, the fourth level subdvisions as villages and rural settlements are types of settlements covered by rural council which is a third level divison, which is already included in the listing of third level divisions in the sidebar. There is no fourth level of subdivision, right? I am unsure how to access that sidebar to edit it.

Secondly, I had a questions concerning districts in cities. Say that in a city of regional significance that its divided into urban districts, but also includes villages, rural settlements, and urban-type settlements within those districts. And say that those settlements have their own councils (urban-type settlement councils and/or rural councils). Would these councils be subordinate to the urban district councils, or do they exist on the same level as the urban districts and thus are subordinate to the city council which would make them independent of the urban districts which might encircle them? Does that make sense how I'm explaining this theoretical example? To put it more simply, are rural and urban-type settlement councils within urban districts independent of those urban councils or subordinate to them instead of the greater city council? --Criticalthinker (talk) 15:28, 16 May 2016 (UTC)


 * , thank you for your questions. I will start with the second portion on the districts in cities. All settlements that are part of the city of regional significance subordinate to the city council. If the city of regional significance has urban districts, those settlements would subordinate to the councils of the districts. The settlements would still administer its local issues that would be covered by the their local councils.


 * Continuing on to the first portion of your inquiry, I need to say that technically there is no fourth level of administrative division in Ukraine per se. However some users prefer to identify individual settlements in Ukraine (populated places in Ukraine – official term in Ukraine) as the fourth level. That qualifies for original research in Wikipedia as far as I understand and it also does not make sense to identify them as the fourth level. I also understand that those users created the fourth level due to the fact that there are some populated places (settlements) without own administration or council. It would be more simple to keep administrative division as administrative division without mixing it with settlements (populated places) categorization. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 17:00, 16 May 2016 (UTC)


 * I will get to User:DDima about this, then, though, he doesn't appear to be active any longer. But, that was kind of my point.  This sidebar is mixing administrative divisions/local government with populated places/settlements/territorial divisions when there is no need to do that, and it only confuses things.  Villages and rural settlements are not administrative divisions, and the infobox seems to imply just that. It'd be different if there wasn't an article on populated places in Ukraine apart from the page on administrative subdivisions, but there is. --Criticalthinker (talk) 13:38, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

, I am not going to change the sidebar as it was created by User:DDima. According to him, he created it in accordance with the Classification of objects of the administrative-territorial system of Ukraine (KOATUU). Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 21:50, 16 May 2016 (UTC)

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Two-colored ribbon
Hi! On your page you saying that you agaist Putin and he must be stopped. But at the same time you have so called 'georgian' ribbot and 'This user supports economic and cultural ties between Ukraine and Russia' and right above that 'Outline of Ukraine.svg This user supports Ukraine's membership in NATO.' banners. Isn't it contradictionary? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.127.46.4 (talk) 08:45, 18 June 2016 (UTC)

Flag of Novorossiya
Sorry but I reverted your "Russian puppet states" edit, while this is true in my opinion as well we have to present a NPOV. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 16:26, 30 June 2016 (UTC)

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Ukrainian Cup
Privet! Thanks for Ukrainian Cup page edits and additions you've been contributing. Several of the history/format paragraphs were your contributions back in 2009. Do you mind adding citations to those paragraphs? Thanks!

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Move reverted.
I have reverted your move of Yuvileiny Stadium because it created a disambiguation page with incoming links without first establishing the absence of a primary topic. I will add a hatnote pointing to Bucha, Kiev Oblast, and add mention of the "Yuvileiny Stadium" in that city to that article - please see if you can find sources to support its inclusion there. Cheers! bd2412 T 16:01, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
 * , thank you for the notice. There are plenty sources that mention the stadium in Bucha indirectly, yet nothing about it in detail. I do not see anything wrong with disambiguation article as it acknowledges the existence of another stadium with such name. Your correction is fine, but I am afraid that some other user might eliminate the hatnote because not being familiar with the subject. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 16:28, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
 * I'll keep an eye on it. Cheers! bd2412  T 17:21, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

Don't bring your negative attitude to my talk page
Don't bring your negative attitude to my talk page ever again, you hear me, is not a place where you smack your lips and disrespect other users. If you want to talk about the article, post in the talk page of the article. You say Ukraine was divided yes but no division was labelled as Ottoman Ukraine, a clear synthesis by you. What is there to push to push about Grand Duchy of Moscow, your friend Bogus said something about it last time we talked, and I have no interest in that part of history anymore, you are still angry that they are not vassals to the Golden Horde, be more specific and stop your sinister attitude. Again watch your mouth when you talk to me, it seems you still hold that old grudge from last time. Alexis Ivanov (talk) 23:37, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
 * , first of all you need to calm down. When you did the revert, you comment was "you are joking". The grudge seems to be only with you alone. I did not mean to disrespect, but rather was pointing out some flaws. If it did look like a personal attack onto you, I apologize. Second of all, Bogus is not friend of my per se. We do edit some articles together and find understanding on many issues. I am not familiar about your discussion with him, particularly about the Grand Duchy of Moscow. It clearly states in the article, however not mentioned anywhere else. I also have no idea what division you are talking about mentioning Ottoman Ukraine. If you would check that article, you probably would have more idea what I was talking about. Cossack Hetmanate was not vassal of Ottomans, at least not for the whole mentioned time. There were certain factions that were used by the Ottomans to wage war in Ukraine as part of casus belli. Legitimacy of Petro Doroshenko as a vassal of Ottomans and Hetman of Zaporizhian Host, I do not dispute, however Ottomans installed Yurii Khmelnytsky who was ousted previously. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 00:10, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Ottoman Ukraine was a state like today Transnistria or Abkhazia, a puppet state or a vassal state. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 00:13, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
 * , also if you look at the annotation at the very beginning it states that the article refers primarily to the Left-bank Ukraine after 1667, thus proving my fact that the information about vassalage is at the wrong article. There is no need to get angry and pursue with mocking (i.e "you are joking"). Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 00:19, 24 September 2016 (UTC)


 * The words "You are joking" has no hints of grudges. It was a remark towards any editor who made a jokeful edit like yours. Ottoman Ukraine was the not term used, it is a term similar to Ottoman Arabia or Ottoman Saudi Arabia, or even Ottoman Egypt. That is why it seems you are joking. You are the one who mentioned Grand Duchy of Moscow just like your friend Bogus, both using the same tactic. So what do you want to know about the Grand Duchy that is bugging?. I am not angry, it seems you are being funny as usual. Alexis Ivanov (talk) 01:43, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
 * , listen, I told you before about Bogus and your discussion with him. I do not understand why you are not pay attention to that or anything else for that matter. Please, note that you do not own the article on Cossack Hetmanate and you cannot simply delete stuff without explaining it. How exactly did my edit seemed to you as if I was joking? And why would you assume that my intentions were exclusively to amuse you? Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 03:21, 24 September 2016 (UTC)


 * I don't believe anyone owns any Wikipedia article per WP:OWNERSHIP, you are the one that deleted my stuff that I have added without any discussion, your edit seemed as a joke because Ottoman Ukraine is not a state, but a land. For example Podolia Eyalet and all those lands where the Nogays and Crimean Tatar dwell in. I never assumed that your "intentions were exclusively to amuse", you can have been amusing all those who have edited that article and that is on their watchlist. Bogus is not your friend so much that you had to call him in the thread as a backup and not only that you question me about Grand Duchy of Moscow just like him, maybe you two are strangers I don't know, I still don't understand what does Grand Duchy of Moscow has to do with me. Alexis Ivanov (talk) 03:33, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
 * , thank you for your answer. I am sorry for editing without acknowledging you and getting on your nerves. I do not agree with you on the status of Ottoman Ukraine, but it does not really pertains to our discussion at this time. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 03:41, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

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Category:Cities of district significance has been nominated for discussion
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Speedy deletion nomination of Bystrytsia of Solotvyno


A tag has been placed on Bystrytsia of Solotvyno requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done for the following reason:

Inappropriate redirect. The correct English name of the river is Bystrytsia of Solotvyn (see page talk). “Bystrytsia of Solotvyno” is not an alternative name/synonym of that river. Hence there should be no such redirect. Note: please speedy delete talk page too

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Forget about it. It is nominated for discussion now. --Gretarsson (talk) 16:37, 9 November 2016 (UTC)

Category:Zenit Boyarka (sports school)
Category:Zenit Boyarka (sports school) has been nominated for deletion. Please see Categories for discussion/Log/2016 November 11. – Fayenatic  L ondon 11:34, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

Featuring your work on Wikipedia's front page: DYKs
Thank you for your recent articles, including Bohdan Khmelnytsky Monument, Kiev, which I read with interest. When you create an extensive and well referenced article, you may want to have it featured on Wikipedia's main page in the Did You Know section. Articles included there will be read by thousands of our viewers. To do so, add your article to the list at T:TDYK. Let me know if you need help, <sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 10:57, 29 November 2016 (UTC)


 * , please, check it at Template:Did you know nominations/Bohdan Khmelnytsky Monument, Kiev. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 11:33, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

Incomplete DYK nomination
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Bohdan Khmelnytsky Monument, Kiev
I have posted a comment on the DYK page of this article. Are you still committed to the DYK? Kailash29792 (talk) 06:19, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Please see new note on your DYK nomination. Yoninah (talk) 23:43, 17 December 2016 (UTC)
 * ...and I've given an in-depth review at the DYK page which you must read. Kailash29792 (talk)  09:14, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Ukrainian Helsinki Watch Group founders
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Yo Ho Ho
<div style="border-style:solid; border-color:blue; background-color:AliceBlue; border-width:1px; text-align:left; padding:8px;" class="plainlinks">

Iryna Harpy (talk) is wishing you Seasons Greetings! Whether you celebrate your hemisphere's Solstice or Christmas, Diwali, Hogmanay, Hanukkah, Lenaia, Festivus or even the Saturnalia, this is a special time of year for almost everyone!

Spread the holiday cheer by adding to your friends' talk pages.

Merry, merry!
From the icy Canajian north; to you and yours! FWiW Bzuk (talk) 13:40, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

Reference errors on 27 December
Hello, I'm ReferenceBot. I have automatically detected that an edit performed by you may have introduced errors in referencing. as follows: Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive, you can [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/RBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/RBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=ReferenceBot%20–%20&section=new report it to my operator]. Thanks, ReferenceBot (talk) 00:27, 28 December 2016 (UTC)
 * On the Nadiya Savchenko page, [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=756939834 your edit] caused a URL error (help) . ([ Fix] | [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&preload=User:ReferenceBot/helpform&preloadtitle=Referencing%20errors%20on%20%5B%5BSpecial%3ADiff%2F756939834%7CNadiya Savchenko%5D%5D Ask for help])

DYK nomination of Bohdan Khmelnytsky Monument, Kiev
Hello! Your submission of Bohdan Khmelnytsky Monument, Kiev at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! BlueMoonset (talk) 00:06, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
 * This is a final call for you to respond on the nomination page if you are still interested in pursuing this DYK entry. I hope to see you there soon. Thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 00:06, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

Category:Eastern Orthodox societies and orders by type has been nominated for discussion
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Academy of Sciences
Aleksandr Grigoryev I undid some edits in the article you made to the one where you deleted many details and info links, but kept the previous ones intact. I humbly ask you to only add details to the article if you plan to change it again, and not remove the non-English example part of it. On a different issue, I support Ukraine's struggle against the Kremlin and as such Slava Ukraini 37.191.5.234 (talk) 13:16, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Valeriy Malikov


The article Valeriy Malikov has been proposed for deletion because it appears to have no references. Under Wikipedia policy, this biography of a living person will be deleted after seven days unless it has at least one reference to a reliable source that directly supports material in the article.

If you created the article, please don't be offended. Instead, consider improving the article. For help on inserting references, see Referencing for beginners, or ask at the help desk. Once you have provided at least one reliable source, you may remove the prod blp/dated tag. Please do not remove the tag unless the article is sourced. If you cannot provide such a source within seven days, the article may be deleted, but you can when you are ready to add one.  J 947  05:23, 1 February 2017 (UTC)

Obolon, Kiev
Hi Aleksandr, thanks for your editing. Although I have a few remarks:
 * 1) I've never heard or found in any dictionaries the term Housing massif thus I use a (housing) estate.
 * 2) What's wrong with the term suburb? e.g. In Australia it means a big "neighborhood" = in Ukrainian - житловий масив, історичний район. It's a part of the city outside its central business district according to Collins English Dictionary New Digital Edition 2008 © HarperCollins Publishers 2008.
 * 3) I think the text "In 1967 the development plan of ... subdivision reform in 2001 Obolon suburb has belonged to the eponymous Obolon Raion, which was created on the Minsky Raion basis", you moved, is pretty important to be in the preamble.

So if you wish I could stop editing this article and you could continue on your own.

Regards, --TimeWaitsForNobody (talk) 23:50, 6 February 2017 (UTC)
 * , yes, I did move it to the history section. I also apologize for my intervention. If you think that my edits are very wrong you may change them back. However I also want to explain the reason for my changes.


 * 1) About massif, you are right that it is uncommon term in English, but it is very common in the area that we are talking about and it is very similar in connotation to its English counterpart. Residential massif means a densely populated residential area with high-rising multi-story apartments. I do not see how it fits with the definition of an estate.
 * 2) About term suburb, if you look at its article, it mentions that the term is ambiguous and in some cases associated with independent municipalities. Hence, to avoid ambiguity, I changed to more common and well understood term.
 * 3) About the fact that it appeared in another city district in 2001, I agree that it is somewhat important. But then, there is the history section.

Yet, once again, if you find my explanations in anyway offensive or unreasonable, I do apologize. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 00:18, 7 February 2017 (UTC)
 * In fact you've substituted suburb for housing massif. I'm not sure it became more understandable. About the moved text I disagree because in fact, after 1972 Obolon became absolutely different. It's critical important to be mentioned in the preamble. --TimeWaitsForNobody (talk) 00:36, 7 February 2017 (UTC)


 * , I have changed the term massif, please check the article. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 00:54, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

Locality
I agree the term suburb can confuse. So I suggest using the term locality for big neighbourhoods and historical districts in the big Ukrainian cities. What do you think? --TimeWaitsForNobody (talk) 00:53, 7 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Historical districts sounds like something related to cultural heritage. In case of Obolon, I think, locality fits very well. District sounds more definitive and official. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 00:57, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

e.g: What do you think about this classifications? --TimeWaitsForNobody (talk) 01:01, 7 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Kiev -> Obolon Raion -> Obolon  -> Obolon Lypky
 * City -> District    -> Locality -> Neighbourhood

Overall
Dear Alexandr, be honest I'm not very happy with your correction the article I created and was writing.

e.g. the Pochaina river. There're too many issues in the article so it's not worth wasting time on them. Although they aren't questions of principle for me but ...

I wanted to finish off this article but now when its structure has been changed significantly I cannot do it.

I was going to keep on writing articles about Ukrainian localities but now I'm really frustrated.

Best regards and good luck, --TimeWaitsForNobody (talk) 22:23, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

Category:Ruthenian princesses has been nominated for discussion
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Cram101/CTI Reviews
Hi Aleksandr, when you added a source for the Cyrillic in Ruthenia you unfortunately used Cram101/CTI Reviews, which copy and paraphrase Wikipedia articles. This causes WP:CIRCULAR referencing, so I have removed it and a proper source is needed. Fences &amp;  Windows  07:50, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

Category:People associated with Kiev Pechersk Lavra has been nominated for discussion
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Category:Ruthenian_people_by_occupation has been nominated for discussion
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Category:Kiev culture has been nominated for discussion
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Athletic director merge proposal
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Your draft article, User:Aleksandr Grigoryev/sandbox


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Best 33
Talk:The best 33 (Ukraine) please see discussion thanks. In ictu oculi (talk) 19:04, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

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Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Imperial Holy Roman people of Ruthenian descent


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Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Society of the Central Ukraine


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Nomination for deletion of Template:Crimean Council changes after 2010 election
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Ukrainian roads categories
Hi Aleksandr

Please will you stop adding Oblast categories to Ukrainian roads articles, as you did to Highway M01 (Ukraine). I removed the categories, but you then reinstated them.

All the by-oblast categories of Ukrainian roads were deleted at WP:CFD 2015 May 2. You know that, because you contributed a lot to the discussion: I count 12 edits by you to that discussion.

Placing an article in a non-existent category doesn't help anyone. It doesn't allow navigation, which is the core purpose of categories (see WP:CAT), and since a redlinked category is an error (see WP:REDNOT), it gets picked up in cleanup lists. That wastes the time of other editors who have to revert the error.

Please stop. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:08, 27 May 2017 (UTC)


 * , I will certainly stop if you will explain me existence of the following categories Category:Roads in the United States by state, Category:Roads in Germany by state, Category:Roads in England by locality, Category:Roads in Catalonia and many others. Ukraine is the biggest country in Europe that completely located on that continent and second in size after Russia. There is not a single national route in Ukraine that passes across the country from one end to another and their categorization per subdivision helps to understand consistency in numbering and their location. Previous elimination of categories was conducted per WP:NARROWCAT, yet such process was not applied to above mentioned existing categories. If you would be so kind to explain me the reason why we have selective decision on the subject I will not only stop, but will enforce and police that issue. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 14:11, 27 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Aleksandr, those arguments may or may not be persuasive, but I am not going to consider them or discuss them. That's because the discussion has already happened, at WP:CFD 2015 May 2. You had your say there, and the debate was weighed as a consensus to delete.
 * WP:Consensus is a core policy of Wikipedia. You do not have to agree with the consensus outcome, but you are obliged to respect it, unless and until it is overturned.  That means: do not try try to recreate or populate the deleted categories.
 * If you like, you are of course free to open a WP:Deletion review, where you can make the case that new evidence should be considered, or that the 2015 discussion was flawed. But you need to respect that process too, by accepting that the 2015 CFD decision stands unless and until it is overturned .. and stop acting unilaterally against the consensus. If you persist in unilaterally working against the consensus, that will be WP:Disruptive editing, so I will have consider sanctions. ... and I really do not want to have to do that.
 * Best wishes, -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 14:42, 27 May 2017 (UTC)
 * OK,, since you are the one who closed the discussion WP:CFD 2015 May 2, I would like you to review your decision. The central argument was around this particular example as you mentioned. I want to state again that I do understand the reason for the argument of overcategorization and it is ridiculous, but I do not see consistency of it for other instances. Such argument should be applied for all similar cases. We need to remove categorization of the European routes for each subdivision of a country that it passes, and... not only in Ukraine. For some reason this excuse of NARROWCAT is applied for Germany related articles. It was to what I was pointing out. CONSISTENCY, pardon my caps. Categories such as Category:Roads in Bavaria is applied to European route E50, but Category:Roads in Zhytomyr Oblast all of sudden falls under NARROWCAT policy. Is not it Bavaria part of Germany? I am working to add more information about roads in Ukraine and highway network structure. How am I supposed to expand articles about roads in Ukraine with you introducing these deletion policies? Is that really constructive? I do agree that adding category for each subdivision is not effective for European route and it is a good argument, but deleting categories like that restricts expansion of articles about Roads in Ukraine. Could we come up with some kind of more accepted consensus? Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 18:09, 27 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I believe I rightly summarised the consensus of that CFD discussion. The decision was not based on any view of my own, but on the majority of views written there, and the strength of those views in terms of Wikipedia policies.
 * You seem to be objecting that the outcome resulted in a difference in practice between the Ukraine and German categories. Perhaps the reason for that difference is that the size of the first-level divisions in Germany (states) is generally larger than the size of first-level divisions in Ukraine (oblasts). Categorising the E50 route by several Ukrainian oblasts resulted in category clutter, but categorising it in a few German states is more acceptable/useful. – Fayenatic  L ondon 21:41, 27 May 2017 (UTC)
 * , judging by your last sentence I see that you have no intention to understand me. I just want to point out that the reason I put consistency in caps in my previous statement was my intention to underline my main idea not in a difference. Second of all, your "perhaps" sentence shows that you did not even read the whole discussion and I suspect you do not really care about subject and it is more numbers for you rather than what is inside. In the discussion nominator clearly stated that it is not about size of categories. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 00:07, 28 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Aleksandr, I think you misunderstand 's role here. The closer's job is not to form their own view, but to weigh the arguments made. FL has summarised how they read the discussion ... and if you think that FL did that job badly, you are free to go to WP:DRV. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 20:12, 28 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Hi Alexandr, I wasn't not talking about size of categories (number of pages in a category) anyway, but about the number of categories on a page about a road. The nominator also said this plainly.
 * You are right, I did not read all the discussion here on your talk page. I did re-read the CFD discussion since that was what you asked me to reconsider.
 * We can see from this list of bot contribs that only 4 road articles were removed in 2015 from Category:Roads in Volyn Oblast, all motorways. I see that you have recreated the category and populated it with roads that are more local; that looks fine to me. – Fayenatic  L ondon 21:28, 28 May 2017 (UTC)
 * , thank you for following on the subject. I will try to dedicate more time to provide more articles with detailed information. I will expand road articles for the regions (oblasts) that are already in place and then we will see how to proceed further. In my opinion, we need to adopt the same concept for highway routes across Europe as well as the national level motorways (expressways) as the articles about highways of the United States and Canada. Those articles are neat and easy to read. It is just most of the articles about road network system in Ukraine were added by me alone and it is pretty overwhelming. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 22:43, 28 May 2017 (UTC)

WikiProject assessment tags for talk pages
Thank you for your recent articles, including Uzhok pass, which I read with interest. When you create a new article, can you add the WikiProject assessment templates to the talk of that article? See the talk page of the article I mentioned for an example of what I mean. Usually it is very simple, you just add something like to the article's talk, with keyword replaced by the associated WikiProject (ex. if it's a biography article, you would use WikiProject Biography; if it's a United States article, you would use WikiProject United States, and so on). You do not have to rate the article if you do not want to, others will do it eventually. Those templates are very useful, as they bring the articles to a WikiProject attention, and allow them to start tracking the articles through Article alerts and other tools. For example, WikiProject Poland relies on such templates to generate listings such as Article Alerts, Popular Pages, Quality and Importance Matrix and the Cleanup Listing. Thanks to them, WikiProject members are more easily able to defend your work from deletion, or simply help try to improve it further. Feel free to ask me any questions if you'd like more information about using those talk page templates. <sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 06:17, 7 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you for heads up. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 13:47, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

Category:Establishments in the Russian Empire has been nominated for discussion
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Cities naming
Thanks for editing Wikipedia. For the English names of Ukrainian geographical objects please use official transliteration and naming system. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.155.216.20 (talk) 01:25, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

Mykola Storozhenko article spun off
I noticed you moved Mykola Storozhenko to Mykola Storozhenko (painter) and left the original as a dab article. Are you planning to add an article about the historian? It shouldn't be spun off like that if the article remains redlinked, and how do you know the painter is not primary topic? <strong style="color:#606060;">AngusWOOF ( bark  •  sniff ) 23:14, 9 July 2017 (UTC)
 * , there are many people with same first and last names, therefore there are things like patronyms and generational titles like junior. When creating another article, it is very confusing when an article gets wikilinked to a wrong person. Especially when there is no article about that person which is mentioned in the article that you are creating. Wouldn't you agree? Also I checked the article about Mykola Storozhenko (painter). First of all its needs some improvement, second of all that person's achievements are no more important for some other with same name. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 00:58, 10 July 2017 (UTC)
 * The article should only be dabbed if you are planning to create the historian's article. If the historian is not notable then they shouldn't be mentioned. See MOS:DABRED As for whether the painter is notable, that's a different story. You can tag him for notability or AFD him if you don't think he is notable. But if the historian is not going to be created, the article that mentions him should be de-linked. <strong style="color:#606060;">AngusWOOF ( bark  •  sniff ) 01:06, 10 July 2017 (UTC)

Poor grammar in your articles
Hi, in this article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Yeliseyev_(admiral) you wrote "Since July 2014, he serves as a Deputy Commander of the Russian Baltic Fleet". But if you can't speak English, why try to edit articles written in English? The correct English is: since July 2014, he HAS SERVED as.... Confine yourself to the Russian Wikipedia. I see that you state on your user page you have EN-4 near-native English. This is entirely self-assessed. In fact, you don't!!!
 * , before slenderizing other, why don't you introduce yourself. Second of all, tell me who has given you permission to write on my talk page? Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 18:29, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm an English man who reads Wikipedia. Do you know what slenderizing means? Do you mean slandering? You are just not at EN-4 level in English, even if you make that claim yourself. Slenderize means "to make slender", утончить. If you mean наклеветать, you mean "slander". Do you understand why you need to say "he HAS SERVED since July 2014"? This is called the perfect tense, used when an action began in the past but is still continuing. By the way, no charge for the free lesson. Maybe in Russian - I'm not sure - but maybe in Russian you use the present tense for that. Possibly с юлии 2014 года он служит как офицер ...?? or с юлии 2014 года он служит в качества вице-командира российского балтийского морского флота. But in English it has to be the perfect tense.

кстати, мне не нужно никакое особое разрешение ни от кого чтобы писать здесь на твоей страничке - эти странички доступны всем - не нравится, просто удали, и все. не надо бросать игрушки из коляски.

Category:Polish-Lithuanian society has been nominated for discussion
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Nomination of Aleksandr Odintsov for deletion
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Subject of mass mailing: Women's Football / Soccer Task Force News: August 2017
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Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Culture of the Central Ukraine


A tag has been placed on Category:Culture of the Central Ukraine requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the category has been empty for seven days or more and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion.

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Orphaned non-free image File:Stalin's funeral.png
 Thanks for uploading File:Stalin's funeral.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

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Urban districts of Ukraine
Hello, I noticed you made the page Urban districts of Ukraine, so I thought I'd ask you. Can you please go look at the talk page to see my questions on this article? There needs to be some clarification on a few things, and I think you could help. --Criticalthinker (talk) 23:06, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Austro-Hungarian people by occupation and location


A tag has been placed on Category:Austro-Hungarian people by occupation and location requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the category has been empty for seven days or more and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion.

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Question
Hi,

about the recent edit in the Carpathian Ruthenia page: "Front page of the Zakarpattia Ukraine newspaper (1944) with manifest of unification with the Soviet Ukraine (not Ukrainian SSR)"

My problem is the Soviet Ukraine article redirects to the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic page, as well Ukrainian SSR redirects the same place, moreover the article makes them identical:

"Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic (Ukrainian SSR or UkrSSR or UkSSR) also as the Soviet Ukraine"...

Could you clarify it please? Thanks(KIENGIR (talk) 09:34, 17 December 2017 (UTC))
 * , I am not sure in what is your confusion. Not to undermine your intelligence, but are you aware that there is a country of Ukraine? The country of Ukraine is based on the Ukrainian nation that is formed based on ethnic people who historically lived on the banks of lower Dnieper (from San River to the west and Don River to the east) and had the city of Kiev as its main cultural center. Those people historically were known as Ruthenians (Rusyns, Rusini) and Little Russians as their exonyms. In 1917 in the Russian Republic Bolsheviks through the armed coup-d'état took power and transformed the country into the country of Soviets. Other nations of the former Russian Empire ceded away including Baltic states, Finland, Poland, Moldavia, Ukraine, Don Republic, Crimea, Kuban Republic, countries of the Caucasian region, counties of the Central Asia, and the Russian Far East. In order to keep the country of Soviets within the same borders of the Russian Empire, Bolsheviks launched attacks against those nations that arose after fall of the Russian Empire and instigating uprisings. The intensity of Bolshevik reaction was of a world wide significance which is reflected in the First Red Scare of the United States. In Ukraine, Bolsheviks formed own puppet state which managed to defeat Ukrainian army and on territory of Ukraine was established Soviet Ukraine which in documents was called as Ukrainian Socialist Soviet Republic (later as Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic). For general public it was still Ukraine and when traveling within the Soviet Union, they were moving from Ukraine to Volga, from Caucasus to Ukraine, from Ukraine to the Far North and others. The political identification, Soviet, was not used. The Chernobyl Disaster took place in Ukraine which at that time as part of the Soviet Union was known as Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic. Due to confusion between USSR (Soviet Union) and USSR (Soviet Ukraine), Soviet Ukraine sometimes is identified as UkrSSR or Ukrainian SSR or other combinations. I hope that clarifies some confusion. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 22:55, 17 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Hi, yes I think you totally misunderstood the question, you might consider it would be heavily funny if I would not know about the country of Ukraine :-). Thus your description of history is definetly not the answer to my problem.


 * So, having
 * A = (Soviet Ukraine)
 * B = (Ukrainian SSR)


 * So, if - as demonstrated above - A = B in the world of WP, how can you explain "with the Soviet Ukraine (not Ukrainian SSR)" -> "A != B"? Since it is a contradiction...Cheers!(KIENGIR (talk) 02:18, 19 December 2017 (UTC))
 * , yea, I mite have. In context of the image I meant to demonstrate how common the use of that name was over the other and was not really arguing whether one is more proper. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 02:26, 19 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Understood! Thx!(KIENGIR (talk) 02:30, 19 December 2017 (UTC))

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Seasons' Greetings
...to you and yours, from Canada's Great White North! FWiW Bzuk (talk) 21:03, 24 December 2017 (UTC)

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