User talk:AlfD1234

AlfD1234 (talk) 21:09, 27 August 2012 (UTC) This is being posted on your Talk page where you can receive messages from other Wikipedians and discuss issues and respond to questions. At the end of each message you will see a signature left by the editor posting. This is done by signing with four  ~  or by pressing or  in the editing interface tool box, located just above the editing window (when editing). Do not sign edits that you make in the articles themselves as those messages will be deleted, but only when using the article talkpage, yours or another editor's talkpage. If you have any questions or face any initial hurdles, feel free to contact me on my talk page and I will do what I can to assist or give you guidance and contact information.

Again, welcome! Buster Seven   Talk  13:32, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Hi Buster7!

Thank you for the contact and the information. I had already (dangerous thing, initiative) made a contact with the originator of the article I had set my sights on and s/he has come back to me, so I must have done something which works. Maybe it's also naughty?

AlfD1234 (talk) 16:31, 22 August 2012 (UTC)


 * not naughty at all - be bold! - though it looks like you've reversed your mind about the date! Talk pages are a good place to park extended commentary, queries etc, about the page, and don't feel shy about asking anyone who seems helpful for advice - but a tip for the future is to also provide a brief edit summary when you make an edit to a page. As far as content goes, if you have accessible sources to hand which sort out the family members who already have their own pages - Sydney Thompson Dobell ? Eva Dobell ? - it would be great to add links to close family members in the relevant pages. Dsp13 (talk) 10:54, 24 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks for that. The position re Horace Dobell is a bit messy - the official records have inconsistencies which I have failed to reconcile or resolve.
 * Maybe I should enter the data warts and all and see if others can shed any more light?
 * He is a member of a prolific family (you've spotted some of them) and there is a biography of his wife (referred to as Mrs Horace Dobell) which fills out quite a bit. I'll see if I can provide a suitable first list and see where the contacts might lead it.
 * Again, thanks.

AlfD1234 (talk) 12:33, 24 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Just to get a feel of things, I have sketched out a few parameters, people and things in my sandbox.
 * Is there any way you can look at it and point me toward making sense of it? I wonder, for example, if it might be best to "create" John Dobell first and then stream his family from him?

AlfD1234 (talk) 22:18, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

The Dobells in your sandbox
I've had a look - they certainly seem an interesting family, though unfortunately I'm not sure John Dobell is notable enough in his own right to merit a page of his own. Clarence seemed so - just about - so I've created Clarence Dobell. There are already pages for Sydney Thompson Dobell, Horace Dobell, Briton Riviere, Dinah Craik and Eva Dobell. Hope this is useful advice! Dsp13 (talk) 21:25, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Was Eva Clarence's daughter? I can't find a reliable source for this.
 * I think Samuel Thompson clearly merits his own wikipage - which can be based on his DNB page - this looks btw a different person from the Samuel Monkland Thompson (1804-1884) you mention in your sandbox.
 * Possibly Elizabeth Mary Dobell (1828-1908) is also worth her own page.

Thank you

 * Very helpful. You were quick off the mark and rapidly to the point, so I must be corresponding with someone who is good at this kind of thing!


 * The nearest I have come to Eva's origins is that Clarence had a daughter b.1876 d. 1963 called Eveline (sometimes comes up as Evelyn). Middle name variously Jeane or Jessie (probably the latter). Could be a contraction. The date Wikipedia shows for Eva's death is the same. But her birth is more of a problem. Clarence didn't marry until 1868 and Clarence and Walter were born in 1870 and 1872. I don't know where the Wikipedia dates came from, but I would suggest the birth is wrong and could well be the 1876 quoted for Eveline. Not QED, but suggestive of a match of the two people. Must keep digging to see if the names are ever used interchangeably or something of the sort.


 * That was on my mind when I turned to Mrs Horace Dobell's poem entitled Eveline. But it won't be the same one - I've skimmed it (it is LONG by my standards) and it seems to be a sad story of a young woman who died young at about the time her illegitimate baby died.


 * Another avenue might be to find Eva had a middle name Jessie, I suppose.


 * I take your point on the substance or lack of it of John Dobell. The guidelines are pretty clear (and helpful).
 * Another track is the family link with Cranbrook in Kent. This is, or has been, heavily populated by Dobells. It was, I believe, one of the (perhaps 3?) main stopping-off points for Huguenot settlers.


 * Further in the future, however, is the fertile liaison of Dobells with Tidys (Charles Meymott Tidy and his son Henry, for example, about whom Wikipedia knows little but Google shows much).


 * However - once again thanks. I learn as I go.

AlfD1234 (talk) 18:09, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Eva J. Dobell
Someone of that name aged 48 arrived in Plymouth from Gibraltar aboard the P & O ship "Macedonia" on 25 July 1924. Age is about right for the date for Eveline. AlfD1234 (talk) 21:09, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

More on Eva
I also came upon this on a website called AllPoetry (and www.Shutterstock.com which doesn't seem useful).


 * "Eva Dobell was the daughter of Clarence Dobell, a wine merchant and local historian from Cheltenham, she was also the niece of Sydney Dobell.
 * Eva was deeply distressed by the suffering and loss of life during the war she volunteered as a nurse, and also took part in the morale-boosting work of writing to prisoners of war. The major part of her ::life was spent in the English Cotswolds, but she also travelled extensively to Europe and North Africa. She helped and encouraged young poets, and campaigned in print for the protection of both wildlife and ::the English countryside.
 * Eva Dobell died in 1963"

So somebody somewhere (I don't yet know who or where) thinks Eva was Clarence's daughter. Mind you, so do I (I think!). Throw in some travel to Europe and North Africa (Gibraltar?) and it could make even more sense.

What I have learned, however, is there are a lot of column-inches out there with a birth date of 1867.AlfD1234 (talk) 00:20, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Take the plunge
I've edited the entry for Eva Dobell. It still lacks citations but I believe there is enough evidence that Eva and Eveline are one and the same. Even so (being greedy) I'd really like to flush out a paragraph with both of them in it! Let's see if anyone else agrees or disagrees.AlfD1234 (talk) 18:14, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

More about sources
The Gloucestershire Echo of Thursday 18th April 1940 contains a detailed obituary for Dr C. Brian Dobell who died at 1, The Park, Cheltenham the day before.

“He was a nephew of Sydney Dobell, the famous poet of Victorian times, and a brother of Miss Eva Dobell, who has published some delightful verse.”

“Dr Dobell was the son of the late Clarence Mason Dobell, of The Grove, Charlton Kings”

“the business of John Dobell and Co. Ltd., which was founded by his grandfather”

The Western Daily Press, Thursday 3rd February 1876 Births “Dobell – Jan 30, at The Grove, Charlton Kings, near Cheltenham, the wife of Clarence M Dobell, of a daughter.”


 * I am now totally convinced of the identity of Eva/Eveline.


 * But I must say, from what I have read, I would not use the phrase "delightful verse". Maybe some of her Gloucestershire stuff might be, but her war poems would delight no-one. Impress; provoke; all manner of words. But I'm no scholar in areas of poetry...AlfD1234 (talk) 20:17, 23 September 2012 (UTC)