User talk:Alistair Wettin

Clothilde Courau
I have removed your insertions of "Princess of Piedmont" from Clothilde Courau's page because I am not convinced by the written evidence referred to on Wikipedia thus far that she is referred to by that title on a consistent or significant basis. While I personally consider that the dynastic wife of the heir of a royal pretender shares his title, Wikipedia has higher standards than I have: there must be some objective evidence that this title is in actual use. This woman is famous in Europe, so there are plenty of printed sources which mention her. Professionally, she continues to use her maiden name, so theatrical and cinematic references to her don't support the "Piedmont" title. The Italian Republic does not recognize any titles, whether borne under the monarchy or claimed by members of the deposed House of Savoy, and the French Republic does not recognize foreign titles of pretence, so governmental references to her do not support "Piedmont". Few, if any, academic or reputable research studies on politics, history, royalism, genealogy, heraldry etc. can be found which refer to Courau at all (aside from the theatre/cinema) even when they mention her father-in-law or husband. When they have referred to her by a royal title, it is "Princess of Savoy" or "Princess of Venice". That leaves two possible sources for the printed references that English Wikipedia accepts as reliable citations: royalist or journalistic literature. Again the result is the same: Few or no newspapers, news websites or popular magazines refer to Clothilde Courau as "Princess of Venice and Piedmont" or "Princess of Piedmont". Within the purely monarchist context, while I do not doubt that among her husband's family, social circle and retainers, she may be addressed by the Piedmont title, given the dissent from, lack of advocacy for, and/or non-recognition of her father-in-law's and husband's claims to current dynastic headship of the House of Savoy and of Italian monarchists, it is neither apparent nor independently well-documented that she is actually referred to as "Princess of Piedmont" by any significant audience. Under that circumstance, Wikipedia's responsibility is to remain neutral, and not attribute to claimants or their families titles and styles for which there is too little evidence that we are following -- rather than encouraging -- the public in according disputed styles. I have yet to even see evidence that Clothilde Courau considers herself "the Princess of Piedmont". I do not doubt that in circles in which you may travel, such usage occurs, and courtesy in those circumstances may indeed call for such usage: you show gentlemanly instincts! But for such usage to be recorded in Wikipedia, it needs also to be utilized in print somewhere else than in Prince Victor Emmanuele's household or by an isolated club or two of restorationists. English Wikipedia does not attribute dynastic titles to the Duke of Loulé or imperial titles to Prince Karl Emich of Leiningen, although there are certainly some advocates for their claims, respectively, to the defunct thrones of Portugal and Russia. I abide by Wikipedia's cautious restraint in such cases, although if a groundswell for either starts manifesting itself in ink not initiated or echoed merely by they themselves, I think their status could change and Wikipedia should acknowledge that (e.g. David Bagration of Mukhrani). Nor, in fairness, do I think that Wikipedia should accord the titles "Duke of Savoy" to Prince Amedeo, Duke of Aosta or "Duke of Aosta" to Prince Aimone, Duke of Apulia", because there is not sufficient evidence in print yet that these titles are used by a significant portion of the public beyond their own faction. We have, instead, the option of referring to these persons according to the well-known, neutral and long-established editorial practice of Justes Perthe's Almanach de Gotha and its reputable successors, utilizing the titles traditionally borne by deposed royalty or recognized by dynastic heads in compliance with their current family consensus and/or historic house laws: we don't have to make up new rules or arbitrarily take sides in rivalries. BTW, I do not agree that a woman wed to royalty may not use his princely prefix coupled with her own given name -- except in the UK and other Commonwealth Realms. That practice is firmly and legitimately established there, but imposing it on Continental royalty is anglocentric (she may be unversally known to English speakers as "Princess Andrew of Greece and Denmark", but in the Kingdoms of Greece and of Denmark, and throughout the rest of Europe, she was known as Princess Alice). I hope this explains my edits. FactStraight (talk) 08:51, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

Sep
Hello. This is nice - does it just drop in whatever separator you specify? I hadn't seen it before. Cheers DBaK (talk) 11:53, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Nice one, thanks for the information. Best wishes DBaK (talk) 12:00, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

January 2016
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