User talk:Allan Wilson MSP

Welcome
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Writing about yourself
Worth reading this guideline: Autobiography. Thanks/wangi 13:21, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Adding Link to Website
Would like the following to appear somewhere on my page. Is it legal and if so; How do I do this and where should I put it:

Official Website For Allan Wilson MSP


 * Official Website Allan Wilson MSP

Allan Wilson MSP 17:01, 21 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi! Do you want to add the link to your Wikipedia user page (User:Allan Wilson MSP) or the article about yourself (Allan Wilson (Scottish politician))?


 * If it's for your Wikipedia userpage, that's fine, see User page.


 * If it's for your article, it's best not to edit an article that is about you, see Autobiography. In that case, ask on the article's talk page (Talk:Allan Wilson (Scottish politician)) and hopefully another editor will see it and possibly adjust the article.--Commander Keane 17:19, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Recent edits to Allan Wilson (MSP) / Allan Wilson (Scottish politician)
Hi, I have replied on my talk page: User talk:Wangi. Thanks/wangi 14:10, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Spelling
Just a quick note: you have been making some odd spelling mistakes for an MP - such as deputes not deputies and catagory not category. You also seem to have a touch of "EddieSegouritus", capitalising personal pronouns - please don't . — G a rykirk | talk! 17:59, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Your username
Hi. It seems your Wikipedia user name resembles that of Allan Wilson, the Scottish politician. To prevent unfortunate cases where pranksters pretend to be someone famous, our user name policy (at Username) requires that such accounts be blocked (the part where it says "Names of well-known living or recently deceased people"). We do, however, realise that some (regrettably only a very few) of such cases are infact the real person named; to that end, can I ask you to email info-en-q@wikimedia.org (mentioning this discussion at "User talk:Allan Wilson MSP") from your official email address and confirm that you really are Mr Wilson, or that you're editing on his behalf. The people who handle that email list will then be able to unblock this account. I'm sorry for the inconvenience, but I hope you'll understand why we need to be careful in this regard. Thanks. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 20:24, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

BLOCKED USER NAME
This is nothing short of ridiculous, a classic example of Party Political Smearing Tatics as pointed out on the "Talk Page" of wangi on that very subject. Talk has now fallen foul of the very same crime.

While "Allan Wilson" may very well be some sort of Famous Person", "Allan Wilson MSP" is also a "Member of The Scottish Parliament".

I am employed by "Allan Wilson MSP" as "Administrator of his online Presence" and have been in that position for the past 3 years.

Recently, Members of The Scottish Parliament (MSP's) were recently made aware of "Party Political Smearing" tactics being deployed on "wikipedia.org/" where an "editor" connected or sympathising with one particular "Political Party" edits the pages of members of an "Opposing Political Party" in an effort to "degrade" or otherwise "smear" the target "Member". Members were therefore advised to create accounts for themselves in order to be able to monitor, identify and "Respond" to such tactics.

These smear tactics are often cunning in their nature so as to avoid the scrutiny of other editors and often take the form of simply "deleting" important information or data, changing ones status, and changing or deleting information within the text in order to "paint a different picture" of the target.

A recent example of this was the deletion of the entire "Personal" page of one user (Allan Wilson MSP). There was absolutely no reason for this, it was his personal page.

THIS TATIC GOES ONE STEP FURTHER IN BANNING HIM COMPLETELY

As a result of the "Party Political Smearing" going on at "wikipedia.org/", Allan ask me to monitor and "DEAL WITH" any such happenings on this site in respect to his name, position and status.

To that end, accounts were created for the following users, user names by which he is most commonly known; These accounts are: User Name: Allanwilson User Name: Allan Wilson User Name: Allan Wilson MSP

You are likely to experience many more such incidents as Members get a handle on what is going on here and learn how to deal with it.

Members of The Scottish Parliament have better things to do and simply do not have the time to deal with things such as this at this level, it would consume ALL their time if they even THOUGHT about it. They employ staff to do this for them. I am one of that staff, Administrator of his "Online Presence". A typical MSP would not have the slightest clue as to how to go about dealing with what is happening to them on this site.

Members of The Scottish Parliament are not "amused" by what is happening here. Let one watch very carefully what they are doing here. Party Political Smearing on "wikipedia.org/" has to be brought to an end and this is a clasic example of it in action.

Would you believe that User Allan Wilson MSP is as of now even dissalowed from even responding to Talk by email concerning that so called users callous actions.

SO LETS GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER PEOPLE, REMOVE THIS BAN AT ONCE

Allan Wilson MSP 15:30, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

BLOCKED USER NAME BIG PROBLEM
We have several BIG problems here.
 * This user is being systematically prevented from making ANY attempts to resolve this issue.
 * First, I am unable to respond directly (email) to the accuser in this issue _Finlay_McWalter_
 * (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Finlay_McWalter)
 * Even though it shows in my "User Page Preferences"
 * Your e-mail address was authenticated on 15:35, 20 July 2006.
 * And the "Box" to enable "EMAIL" from "Other" users is TICKED
 * This is totally uncalled for.

Allan Wilson MSP maintains a number of official EMAIL addresses. He maintains offices in:
 * The Scottish Parliament
 * Ministerial Offices in the Scottish Executive
 * Constituency Offices

There are email addresses for him and his staff in ALL these locations.
 * You will find this true for ALL MSP's who are ALSO Cabinet Ministers.

THE FOLLOWING ARE OFFICIAL EMAIL ADDRESSES FOR ALLAN WILSON MSP:
 * (Some of these are NOT for publication)

(removed email addresses)

JUST WHICH EMAIL ADDRESS WOULD YOU LIKE TO HEAR FROM?

Let me know exactly which one you would prefer to hear from

Which ever one you choose, the fact remains that
 * (removed email address)
 * MUST remain the one appearing under the registered name because that is the one responsible for the administration of this user.

What the people at wikipedia.org/ do not understand is that  Members of The Scottish Parliament are going to Delegate to their staff the task of Editing material pertaining to them on this site for the following simple reason;
 * A Rocket Scientist and a person with a Doctors Degree in Computer Programming would find it difficult (AS WELL AS HAVE NOTHING ELSE TO DO) to wade through all the Rules, Regulations and special Coding Requirements required on this site to even make a SIMPLE response and then they are hassled by editors who know absolutely nothing about the subject.
 * A Member of Parliament wouldn't have a clue.
 * I have 30 years experience in Computer Engineering and Programming and even I find it difficult responding on this site.

NOW LETS GET THIS RESOLVED AND STOP THE SILLY CARRY ON

195.93.21.41 14:06, 30 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I have removed the email adresses you included above - listing them here will result in them appearing in search engine results - I don't think that's something you want... You don't need to email Finlay, you need to email info-en-q@wikimedia.org (as detailed above) from an official email adresses (i.e. the "@scottish.parliament.uk" address, or the gsi one). Thanks/wangi 14:13, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, Wikipedia is NOT a political tool, we're not for making someone look good. As for the email requirments, we would require an official email address, your current address on the unblock mailing list of AOL is not official in any way shape or form and cannot be treated as such -- Tawker 22:50, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

I think you should pause...
and think. I hardly believe Wikipedia (not "wikipedia.org/') is difficult to use, and anyway, a degree in computer science is very different from being proficient in using the Internet.

First please stop starting random words with capital letters. It's annoying and people will think you're Eddie Segoura. Also, don't SHOUT, and don't BOLD THINGS LIKE THIS. You seem to have mastered that part of wikitext fine! It has been explained clearly above why your account has been blocked, and how to go about removing the block. However, if you read our biographical article guidelines you will see editing an article about yourself (or instructing someone else to do this for you is not allowed, and Role accounts are also prohibited. So, I don't think the account should be unblocked, as (Scottish) Members of Parliament have no reason to edit their own articles, or order changes to be made. Correcting inaccuracies is okay, obviously.

Cheers — G a ry Kirk | talk! 16:18, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

No Comment
There is no logical comment to that. That is my style and this is my "User Talk Page" (sorry about that) (I have been a "Technical Author" for 25 years so know something about it) The same applies to those who complain about "spelling". One should note the differences in spelling in the "English" (UK) dictionary compared to the "US" dictionary.

The purpose of this member is NOT to carry out discussions pertaining to "editing" etiquette but to simply protect ones self against smearing tactics or incorrect statements in articles pertaining to him.

There is NO OTHER purpose.

ALL Members have been advised to do this and it has been propagated throughout the Parliament.

This specific issue has been noted as an example for the concern as have others involving other Members.

Members of the Parliament certainly DO have the right to protect and defend themselves, whatever the source. They have a "Legal" department to ensure that right.

The page you mention; http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Role_accounts This does not exist ????

Not going to get into a discussion about it but you seem to think it is ok if someone edits the page of a Member of Parliament (an elected Government Official) calling him (for example) a "Ding Bat" and that the target has absolutely no right to do anything about it.

I think others might disagree with you on that point.

(The Member certainly isn't going to be too "chuffed" about it either) (chuffed by the way is a "Scottish" term)

Yes, I have learned "some" things about "Wikipedia" coding techniques but it remains a fact that a typical professional person (a medical doctor if you like) would not have a clue as to how to defend or respond to "incorrect" things being said about them.

You think that is fare?

Hopefully not, but that is the way it is and we are doing our best to learn the system and we WILL.

However none of this is the intent or purpose of these discussions. Lets keep the dialogue limited to the point in question.

The issue is resolved (for the time being).

Status-quo remaining equal, nothing more will be said about it until an issue arises warranting it..

Members will be monitoring articles pertaining to them.

Case Closed...

Cheers... Allan Wilson MSP 17:06, 31 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Right, I will try to address your concerns in a civil manner, unlike that in which they were given!


 * Spelling: The spelling concerns were neither American or British English; just plain made up!
 * Editing one's own article: Just don't do it, and don't instruct others to either. I said earlier that of course, factual inaccuracies may be corrected.
 * Role accounts: My apologies, my mistake, though with a little searching and common sense you could have found it yourself, I'm sure!
 * Other points: Please, being rude will get you nowhere here! Comments like NOW LETS GET THIS RESOLVED AND STOP THE SILLY CARRY ON' will not endear you to the Project. Now please just email the address above from an official email address as instructed, and you will be unblocked!'' Simple eh? Otherwise, it seems you're just a childish imposter...of an MSP? Please!

"£2.50 please sir" said the bus driver to AW MSP. "You think that is fare?" he replied. "I know that's the fare" he replied, "I drive this fucking bus!" "So, £2.50 it is" said the conductor. "SO LETS GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER PEOPLE!" said Allan vehemently.

— G a ry Kirk | talk! 19:21, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Trying and Willing to Learn
I am new here trying and willing to learn and learning fast.

First lesson, be extremely careful what you say and how you say it, don't ever use bold and use a spell checker that knows how to spell in the editors language. (I use the AOL one, don't know what language that is, obviously not to the liking of some)

I am here as are others in my position mainly to monitor and respond to incorrect, misleading, defamatory or otherwise down right smearing in articles pertaining to Members of Parliament.

However, it turns out I (we) also have a contribution we can make regarding new or currently empty articles on the subject. Who else is there better equipped to do so.

Like who else would know the precise detailed job description of a Cabinet Minister other than that minister, his boss or perhaps a couple of other ministers, none of whom are represented here or are proficient or have the time required to respond or contribute here themselves.

I truly hope I can share the following here without the sky falling in on me again.

(there seems to be some very sensitive people out there looking for problems)

Yes, I am starting to learn.

I had been sort of wondering (very quietly without comment of course) why it was the "Admins" were allowing Gary's last rather strange comment, foul language and all, to stand while bringing the wrath of God down upon me. Well, I have been enlightened.

I have subsequently been extremely fortunate to have received a number of private "off the record" statements detailing in great detail how things work, countless links and all.

Unfortunately, seeing how one cannot voice there concerns here, I dare not even hint at there contents here for fear of further reprisals, and that is a shame.

What I think might be safe to say (hopefully) is that the vast majority of the people, admins, editors or whatever, are good decent people. There are however some really bad apples out there.

It only takes one bad apple to stink up the whole barrel.

The problem facing the good apples is much the same as mine, the good apples can do or say nothing against the bad apples for fear of being trashed by the often higher ranking bad apples who as a result end up running the show. That is really quite a shame but nothing can be done about it.

Armed with all this new-found knowledge I will do my very best to live within the newly learned rules and do my very best to stay well clear of the bad apples scrutiny, though I don't agree with being banned for using bold on my talk page or where I feel it is necessary. Hopefully someday the good apples may get control back.

I hope this is satisfactory to all concerned.

Allan Wilson MSP 16:10, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

User Page
I am noting in advance that I will populate my (this) user page again with my biography, for a start, (very brief of course) when I can find the time to do it.

I would hope that someone will not find reason to delete it again.

Perhaps someone can enlighten me on what one can and cannot put on their "User" page.

What with all the selective rules and regulations I am finding it near impossible to say anything here, very confusing.

Other people manage it, does someone have something against MSP's?

Allan Wilson MSP 17:14, 3 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Stop complaining. Surely an official "Administrator of Allan Wilson MSP's Online Presence" (of three years standing, no less!) can find his way around the so-called selective rules and regulations; stop discussing apples and actually read them. People are not actually here to harrass Scottish Politicians, amusing as that possibility might be. Horatio Apple 20:25, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Removal of Data
On 24 June 2006, the following paragraph was removed from the biography of Allan Wilson MSP http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allan_Wilson_%28MSP%29 by editor B G Wilson:

''He is married and has two sons. Outside politics he was a keen footballer and a well known member of the Ayrshire football fraternity.''

I can see no reason why it should have been removed and request it be reinstated for the following reasons;

The biography of many members contain short statements such as this and I can see no reason why Allan Wilson's biography should be singled out as being any different.

To cite but a few of the many cases in point as an example;

Frank McAveety http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_McAveety

He is a Celtic supporter from childhood, and is known for his compendious knowledge of music, including a massive collection of LPs, cassettes, and CDs.

Duncan McNeil http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duncan_McNeil

Mr McNeil lives in Greenock and enjoys golf and cigars.

Charlie Gordon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Gordon

Mr Gordon has two adult sons from his first marriage and a baby son with his wife Emma, a teacher.

Margaret Ewing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Ewing

She was married twice: firstly to Donald Bain in 1968 and secondly to fellow MSP Fergus Ewing in 1983, who is the son of Winnie Ewing.

I would ask, what makes the deleted paragraph in the biography of Allan Wilson any different than those?

Though I see no reason for having to do so, if someone feels the need to further "qualify" the removed statement, that can be very easily accomplished by the addition of a few words as follows;

''He is married, Lives in Kilbirnie, and has two sons. Having previously held the position of Deputy Minister for Tourism, Culture and Sport, outside politics he is a keen footballer and a well known member of the Ayrshire football fraternity.''

Allan Wilson MSP 14:36, 5 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Allan, or Allan's assistant, I am going to add back in that wee bit, because it is perfectly legitimate, and frankly quite elementary biographical data. Nothing controversial!! However, I feel that we really do need to provide a citation (please see WP:CITE) in order to put in adjectives like "well-known"; and what, exactly is a "member" of a football "fraternity"? Eg, does Allan actually hold any positions of responsibility or honorary positions within any club or association? If he does, then great: we just state the facts. If not, then we need a reliable source for the description "well-known member of the Ayrshire football fraternity". Best wishes. Yes, I know Wikipedia is a pain in the a***, but it doesn't take that long to get to know the ropes. --Mais oui! 15:12, 5 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Thank you.


 * Yes, he does indeed have all the things you ask for but I will have to run off and get the details from him. I will put them here when I get them in rough form if you could then be so kind as to enter them in the format required which I am not as yet very proficient at.


 * Allan Wilson MSP 15:40, 5 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Mmmm... please do not go to any bother, because quite frankly we are not going to give a long list of directorships or positions held by Allan (see WP:Listcruft). Just one example of a position he holds within the "Ayrshire football fraternity" will be quite sufficient. I would much rather that we improved the actual "meat" of the article, ie. his politics, rather than start expanding on his hobbies!!! (This ain't Who's Who.) --Mais oui! 15:57, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

source for the description

Hello, Don't know if I should put this on your Talk page or ours, I will try it here first.

Below is a reference to qualify the statements in question. As requested, only one of his positions is singled out. All the background is there, just pick out what you need to qualify the "well known in fraternity bit" which was in question. Wasn't looking for the specific naming of any position actually. Was quite happy with just the "he is well known in the fraternity" bit which is mentioned in many places. But there is no problem with naming a position if you feel it necessary.

Yes, he does hold a position of responsibility within a club - he is the chairman.

This reference should qualify all the requirements including the "well known" bit. It cites the source which has a wide distribution and mentions all the names and places and people who can serve as a reference for the information. It was also printed in other publications and I can get the names of those if need be.

I can also supply other references that mention the material in question which should substantiate the being well known part if need be.

You can extract whatever data you require out of the following and assemble it in whatever format it needs to be. I don't think we need to write a book on it though, we were quite happy with the few words that were there in the first place. Given that, you are quite right, there is plenty to be said about his political achievements though, somehow, I have the feeling they wouldn't last long.

Ok, I have ratted on too long (I love writing), herewith the reference:

A press release in the Ardrossan and Saltcoats Herald, a local newspaper distributed throughout North Ayrshire and the offshore islands of Arran, Millport and Cumbrae an area comprising some 300 cities and towns.

New Sports Club Formed in Kilbirnie Under Chairmanship of MSP Allan Wilson - 16th January 2006

Ten football clubs have come together under the chairmanship of local MSP Allan Wilson to form a Community Football Club in Kilbirnie.

At a meeting in the Garnock Labour Club convened by SFA Regional Manager Richard Wilson and supported by Kilbirnie Ladeside JFC, Kilbirnie Ryeside under 21's and Kilbirnie Ladeside youth teams at under 17,16,13,12,11,9 and 8 levels all agreed to reconstitute themselves as Kilbirnie Community Football Club.

"I have long advocated the formation of such a club and I am pleased to have been asked by the local teams to chair the new club committee" said Mr Wilson.

"Incorporation also provides the opportunity to secure funding assistance from other public agencies and private sponsors and the means to use that money for the mutual benefit of the clubs and the community alike" said Mr Wilson.

SFA Regional Manager Richard Wilson concurred saying, "The Scottish Football Association are delighted to support the formation of Community Clubs and I was very enthused at how committed all present at the meeting were to the development of such a club in the town of Kilbirnie. The SFA in partnership with North Ayrshire Leisure currently delivers a very successful Community Programme in the area, under the guidance of John Brown and Barry Scott. Their expertise and knowledge in the area of club development will be an invaluable resource that the club will be able to tap in to over the coming months.”

For Further Information contact John Brown SFA Youth Development Officer on 01294 317459

Note: (mine) SFA = "Scottish Football Association", website: http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/

Allan Wilson MSP 16:33, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Suggested description
Given all the gory details noted above, (I tend to be a bit "wordy" at times, sorry about that)

Can we say, simply;

''He is married, has two sons, and lives in Kilbirnie. In his free time he is a keen footballer and was appointed chairman of the Kilbirnie Community Football Club committee by the Scottish Football Association.''

We would be quite happy with that and could move on to adding "meat" to the article (should we dare).

On that note, see you have added some links, that is great. There is one more that can be added to complete the linking process. (sorry, can't do it myself, rules you know, rules rules rules, ba humbug)

On the line In October 2004 he was appointed Deputy Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning. There is a link to an article for "Deputy Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deputy_Minister_for_Enterprise_and_Lifelong_Learning

Allan Wilson MSP 15:19, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Missing Details
The biography for Allan Wilson (MSP) fails to account for half Allan Wilson's life, (over thirty years worth). The missing information directly relates to his current Parliamentary activities. (he is a member of their football team and has been for the past 3 years or more). It was his football background which prompted his appointment to Deputy Minister for Culture and Sport, a previous position he has held.

Similar such statements are allowed in other MSP's biographies, for example;

Frank McAveety http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_McAveety

He is a Celtic supporter from childhood, and is known for his compendious knowledge of music, including a massive collection of LPs, cassettes, and CDs.

or

Brian Wilson http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Wilson_%28politician%29

I have been working to find an acceptable solution to this issue. I therefore propose the following statement be inserted as an acceptable and qualified compromise:

---

''He is married to Alison, has two sons, Craig and Scott, and lives in Kilbirnie. He is a member of the Scottish Parliamentary football team, current holders of the four nations' Parliamentary Trophy (Parliamentary Shield) and Chairman of Kilbirnie Community Football Club comprising 15 teams and for over thirty years a former player, coach and manager of various Ayrshire juvenile, amateur and junior teams in the SJFA, (Scottish Junior Football Association) SAFA (Scottish Amateur Football Association) and SFA (Scottish Football Association).''

--

In email communications with user:ESkog regarding the above proposal, he has responded;

--

'' The paragraph about personal information. It looks like this has already been partially resolved by "Mais oui!" - but I think the rest of the information you cite is also well-written and encyclopedic. You are welcome to add that information to the article yourself.''

--

Before I do that, it would be nice if someone else done it instead of me for obvious reasons.

Omitting such basic details could be considered discriminating and a personal insult especially when other biographies are allowed to publish such information, including in some cases a persons (MSP's) previous court appearances which have nothing to do with their positions.

The statement proposed in this case at least relates to his current Parliamentary activities and his activities within his Constituency. It is also a rather short and to the point statement and solves the "well-known" and "fraternity" wording issue which necessitated these changes.

Allan Wilson MSP 14:35, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Troll warning
I've removed this. You are right, in this instance the banner was most unhelpful. We need our editors to work together in a civil and constructive manner, avoiding aggressive tones and incivility. Implying that people are trolls does not aid that. I hope everyone involved can calm down and work together now. --Doc 15:03, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Account Password Hacking
Someone is trying to change my password and it is not me. I have received 5 separate email messages stating my password had been changed due to the request of someone at IP address 212.219.240.212 which is not mine.

This IP address is assigned to an organisation in the UK. It is likely someone in this organisation is attempting to use my login details to carry out editing tactics which would be detrimental to my position and indeed my user name.

While your safety precautions have in this case prevented this, it is nonetheless a worrying issue for someone in my position and should require further investigation.

Would someone therefore please advise me on how to go about the identification of this individual and what measures can be taken to prevent further such attempts by this person.

Thank you

Allan Wilson MSP 11:52, 25 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Don't worry; the messages go to you, not whomever clicked the password reminder email. That person is no nearer to knowing or changing your password than they were beforehand, and that won't change no matter how many times they click the link. Wikipedia cannot "investigate" further; Wikipedia knows nothing more about the person who clicked the link than their IP address, which you already know.  You may consider contacting the IT people at Angus Council, who appear to own that IP space (per http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/whois.ch?ip=212.219.240.212). -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 14:38, 25 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Only thing i'd add is if your password isn't strong then it's a probably a good idea to make it so. Thanks/wangi 15:14, 25 September 2006 (UTC)