User talk:Alterego/Lord God our Pope

Dear Alterego,

Your article, “Lord God our Pope,” is totally ridiculous.

I would have preferred to contact you through private e-mail but do not see how this can be done. My point is not to embarrass you publicly, but rather to have you remove your absurd article from Wikipedia.

Of course, it is NOT a real article in Wikipedia, but is something in your own personal user page.

At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_page Wikipedia explains:

"A user page is a web-page that displays information about a user who has an account on the website that hosts the userpage. User pages have a variety of purposes, from displaying the subject's history of contributions to the site to housing blogs and other user created content. Almost all user pages, however, list basic information about the subject such as first and last name, account name, and email address. Most websites allow the user pages hosted on them to be customized, allowing for the user to add information about themselves, their friends, and their interests.

"User pages general list basic information about the author such as their username, first and/or last name, interests, occupation, or website URL. They often also allow users to post images, videos, and links related to themselves. Many websites also allow users to input additional information about themselves not included in registration, and some allow for the user to host a blog on their user page."

In essence, these user pages are for people to list their biography and personal things like their favorite songs and movies. At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alterego you state:

“I have been active in Wikipedia for quite some time, having attended both conferences, the first in Frankfurt and the second at MIT. While I am the primary author of MBTI and List of people considered to be deities, most of my contributions have been off-line…”

Your article, “List of people considered to be deities” (by themselves or others) IS a real Wikipedia article at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_considered_to_be_deities but does NOT list Popes in general NOR any individual Pope!

Any article claiming that Catholics ever considered the Pope to be divine would be so silly, it would not be allowed in the Wikipedia or any other source having an ounce of respectability. So you put the article in your own personal user page, where someone can write anything he or she wants.

A fundamentalist I know sent me a link to it. When I repeatedly asked him how he found the article in your personal user page, he refused to tell me. I suspect your article is well-known among extra-chromosome anti-Catholics.

This person also sent me links to two other websites—one by a Seventh Day Adventist and the other by a Presbyterian Church—which make similar claims. I intend to contact them as well.

Of course, I have no way of knowing what the motives are for the authors of these articles, but even if it is based on ignorance of Catholicism, you and they have NOT used due diligence.

It is extremely easy to find out what the Catholic Church believes on any matter.

The 1995 Catechism of the Catholic Church is on-line at many websites, including http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

Its predecessor, the 1981 Baltimore Catechism, is on-line at http://www.gutenberg.org/files/14554/14554.txt

The documents of the Vatican II Council (1962-1965) are at http://www.stjosef.at/council/search/

The decrees of the Vatican I Council (1869-1870) are at http://www.piar.hu/councils/ecum20.htm

The canons and decrees of the Council of Trent (1545-1563) are at http://history.hanover.edu/texts/trent.html

If someone wants to know what the Catholic Church believes on any matter, it is extremely easy to find out. Agree or disagree, there is NO EXCUSE for anyone misunderstanding the Church on any matter of significance.

That idea that the Pope is God is utterly preposterous to any Catholic or any non-Catholic with the slightest knowledge of the Church.

Your article relies on an 1896 publication of the Protestant Alliance in London. It claims that a “Gloss” on the Extravagantes of Pope John XXII contain the words “Dominum Deum nostrum Papam,” translated “Lord God the Pope.”

There is a website, The Truth about the title “Lord God the Pope,” at http://www.angelfire.com/ms/seanie/forgeries/zenzelinus.html addresses this matter in detail.

In essence, a Gloss is an interpretation of explanation of someone else’s paper. In 1325, Zenzelinus de Cassanis, a papal chaplain and professor of canon law, wrote a commentary on 20 papers of Pope John XXII.

The words, “Dominum Deum nostrum Papam,” definitely do NOT appear in the original copies of this Gloss!

However, there is a copy of the Gloss that was made in Paris in 1685—a full 360 years after it was written by de Cassanis—that does contain the phrase, “Dominum Deum nostrum Papam.”

This latter copying error of a Gloss has absolutely no authority! Nothing like that was ever incorporated into Canon Law!

None of the following articles on Canon Law make any reference to a statement on the divinity of the Pope, something they would do if such a dramatic statement existed:

1913 Catholic Encyclopedia at http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09056a.htm AND http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05715a.htm AND http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04670b.htm AND http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04391a.htm

Wikipedia at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_law AND http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_law_(Catholic_Church) AND http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extravagantes AND http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corpus_Juris_Canonici AND http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_Decretals

MSN Encarta Encyclopedia at http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761570990/Canon_Law.html

Columbia Encyclopedia at http://www.factmonster.com/ce6/society/A0857164.html

Also, the actual Code of Canon Law is on the Vatican website at http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_INDEX.HTM

The portion on the Pope is at http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P16.HTM which states:

THE ROMAN PONTIFF

Can. 331 The bishop of the Roman Church, in whom continues the office given by the Lord uniquely to Peter, the first of the Apostles, and to be transmitted to his successors, is the head of the college of bishops, the Vicar of Christ, and the pastor of the universal Church on earth. By virtue of his office he possesses supreme, full, immediate, and universal ordinary power in the Church, which he is always able to exercise freely.

Can. 332 §1. The Roman Pontiff obtains full and supreme power in the Church by his acceptance of legitimate election together with episcopal consecration. Therefore, a person elected to the supreme pontificate who is marked with episcopal character obtains this power from the moment of acceptance. If the person elected lacks episcopal character, however, he is to be ordained a bishop immediately.

§2. If it happens that the Roman Pontiff resigns his office, it is required for validity that the resignation is made freely and properly manifested but not that it is accepted by anyone.

Can. 333 §1. By virtue of his office, the Roman Pontiff not only possesses power offer the universal Church but also obtains the primacy of ordinary power offer all particular churches and groups of them. Moreover, this primacy strengthens and protects the proper, ordinary, and immediate power which bishops possess in the particular churches entrusted to their care.

§2. In fulfilling the office of supreme pastor of the Church, the Roman Pontiff is always joined in communion with the other bishops and with the universal Church. He nevertheless has the right, according to the needs of the Church, to determine the manner, whether personal or collegial, of exercising this office.

§3. No appeal or recourse is permitted against a sentence or decree of the Roman Pontiff.

Can. 334 Bishops assist the Roman Pontiff in exercising his office. They are able to render him cooperative assistance in various ways, among which is the synod of bishops. The cardinals also assist him, as do other persons and various institutes according to the needs of the times. In his name and by his authority, all these persons and institutes fulfill the function entrusted to them for the good of all the churches, according to the norms defined by law.

Can. 335 When the Roman See is vacant or entirely impeded, nothing is to be altered in the governance of the universal Church; the special laws issued for these circumstances, however, are to be observed.

There is absolutely NOTHING in it to suggest that the Catholic Church considers the Pope to be divine.

In your article, you wrote:

This theory is carried out at the present day on the coronation of a Pope, with the triple crown to mark the triple jurisdiction of the Bishop of Rome over heaven earth and purgatory. The ceremony is thus described in an official document:--"After the election and proclomation, the Pope attired in the pontifical habit, is borne in the Pontifical chair to the church of St. Peter, and is placed on the High Altar, where he is saluted for the third time by the Cardinals by kissing his feet, hands and mouth. In the mean time the Ambrosian Hymn Te Deum is sung. Then the Pontif descends from the altar, and is carried to the vatican Palace."*

You appear to be referring to some unspecified “official document.” Most of his allegations are based on a 1896 pamphlet by the Protestant Alliance in London.

The sentence in your article, which might be quoting something else, says:

“This theory is carried out AT THE PRESENT DAY on the coronation of a Pope, WITH A TRIPLE CROWN to mark the triple jurisdiction of the Bishop of Rome over heaven earth and purgatory.”

This is totally wrong, as anyone who watched on TV the inauguration of Pope Benedict XVI in 2005 and Pope John Paul I and Pope John Paul II in 1978 could tell you. And the last three Popes chose NOT to be crowned at all.

As for the three layers of the papal tiara referring to Heaven, Earth, and Purgatory, an article in Wikipedia at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_tiara does NOT think so. It says in part:

Symbolism of the Triple Tiara

There is no certainty about what the three crowns of the Triple Tiara symbolise, as is evident from the multitude of interpretations that have been and still are proposed. Some link it to the threefold authority of the "Supreme Pontiff: Universal Pastor (top), Universal Ecclesiastical Jurisdiction (middle) and Temporal Power (bottom)".[12] Others interpret the three tiers as meaning "Father of princes and kings, Ruler of the world, Vicar of our Saviour Jesus Christ".[13] When popes were crowned, the following words were used:

Accipe tiaram tribus coronis ornatam, et scias te esse Patrem Principum et Regnum, Rectorem Orbis, in terra Vicarium Salvatoris Nostri Jesu Christi, cui est honor et gloria in sæcula sæculorum. (Receive the tiara adorned with three crowns and know that thou art Father of Princes and Kings, Ruler of the World, Vicar of Our Savior Jesus Christ in earth, to whom is honor and glory in the ages of ages.) Yet others have associated it with the threefold office of Christ, who is Priest, Prophet, and King,[14] an association mentioned as a possibility by Pope John Paul II in his Inauguration homily,[15][16] or "teacher, lawmaker and judge".[17] Another traditional interpretation was that the three crowns refer to the "Church Militant on earth", the "Church Suffering after death and before heaven", and the "Church Triumphant in eternal reward".[18] Yet another interpretation suggested by Archbishop Cordero Lanza di Montezemolo, who designed Pope Benedict XVI's tiara-less coat of arms, was "order, jurisdiction and magisterum",[19] while a further theory links the three tiers to the "celestial, human and terrestrial worlds," which the pope is supposed to symbolically link.[20]

A different article in Wikipedia on the Origins of the Papal Tiara at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins_of_the_Papal_Tiara indicate that previous to the 14th Century, the paintings of Popes showed only a single or double layer. While some paintings in the 14th Century showed a triple layer, there are 15th Century paintings showing other Popes with a single layer of the tiara.

So, once again, you’ve gotten things WRONG.

As for the installation of the Pope, according to a Wikipedia article at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_Coronation

The coronation takes place on the first Sunday or Holy Day following the election. It begins with a solemn Papal Mass. During the chanting of Terce, he sits on a throne and all of the cardinals make what is called their "first obeisance" to the pope, approaching one by one and kissing his hand. Then the archbishops and bishops approach and kiss his feet.

Following this, at least since the beginning of the sixteenth century, the newly-elected pope is carried in state through St. Peter's Basilica on the sedia gestatoria, under a white canopy, with the papal flabella (ceremonial fans) to either side. However, he does not yet wear the papal tiara, but instead wears a jewelled mitre (the mitra pretiosa). Three times, the procession is stopped, and a bundle of flax lashed to a gilded staff is burnt before the newly-elected pontiff, while a master of ceremonies said: Pater Sancte, sic transit gloria mundi (Holy Father, thus passes the glory of the world).[2] Once at the high altar, he would celebrate Solemn High Mass with full papal ceremonial.

After the Confiteor, the pope is seated on a throne and the three senior cardinal bishops approach him in mitres. Each in turn place their hands above him and say the prayer, Super electum Pontificem. Then the senior cardinal deacon place the pallium on his shoulders saying:

“Accept the pallium, representing the plenitude of the Pontifical office, to the honour of Allmightly God, and the most glorious Virgin Mary, his Mother, and the Blessed Apostles Peter and Paul, and the Holy Roman Church.”

In the eleventh and twelfth centuries the immantatio, or bestowal of the mantum (a papal vestment consisting of a very long red cope fastened with an elaborate morse) on the newly elected pope, was regarded as especially symbolic of investiture with papal authority, and was conferred with the words: "I invest thee with the Roman papacy, that thou rule over the city and the world."[3]

After the investiture (whether with the pallium or the mantum) the pope again receives the obeisance of the cardinals, archbishops and bishops. Then the Mass continued, and the Litany of the Saints was chanted.

Contrast that factual report from Wikipedia with what YOU wrote:

“The ceremony takes place in the Church of St. Peter. The Pope is placed upon the High Altar of that Church, a spot consecrated, according to the Romish theory of the Mass, by the actual presence of the body blood soul and divinity of a living Christ. He sits on the High Altar using it as his footstool; and enthroned as a King, he is adored as a God in the same manner as is the consecrated wafer; adored by the Cardinal Princes who kiss his feet, which rest on the Altar of the Supreme!”

To start with, this doesn’t make sense. Obviously, you don’t know much about Catholic liturgies.

During each Mass in every Catholic Church in the world, the bread and wine are consecrated into the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Jesus. There is nothing about “the High Altar” of St. Peter’s Basilica (I’ve never heard it referred to as St. Peter’s Church) that is theologically different from the altar of any other place where the Mass is celebrated.

However, the tabernacle, which contains consecrated hosts, is NOT kept on the High Altar but rather in the Chapel of the Blessed Sacrament.

Wikipedia has a good article about St. Peter’s Basilica at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Peter's_Basilica

The elements in the installation of the Pope are similar in many ways to the ordination of priests and bishops.

In an article on Holy Orders at http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11279a.htm the 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia states in part:

“From the beginning the diaconate, priesthood, and episcopate were conferred with special rites and ceremonies… Shortly before the Gospel, after the candidates were presented to the pope, the entire congregation was invited to prayer. All prostrating, the litanies were recited, the pope then imposed his hands upon the head of each candidate and recited the Collect with a prayer of consecration corresponding to the order conferred.

“The bishop then instructs and admonishes the candidates as to the duties of their new office. He kneels down in front of the altar; the ordinandi lay themselves prostrate on the carpet, and the Litany of the Saints is chanted or recited. On the conclusion of the Litany, all arise, the candidates come forward, and kneel in pairs before the bishop while he lays both hands on the head of each candidate in silence…”

In regard to the consecration of bishops, the 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia at http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04276a.htm states in part:

“The ceremony of consecration of a bishop is one of the most splendid and impressive known to the Church…”

Going back to your article, the only Pope you mention is in the last sentence, “The same account is given of the inauguration of Pope Pius Ix. in the R.C. paper "The Universe" of the 27th June, 1846.”

First of all, Pope Pius IX was inaugurated on June 21, 1846. Second, Pope Pius IX was never treated as a deity. In fact, he was under siege during much of his papacy. The 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia at http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12134b.htm states in part:

“His first great political act was the granting of a general amnesty to political exiles and prisoners on 16 July, 1846. This act was hailed with enthusiasm by the people, but many prudent men had reasonable fears of the results…

“Riot followed riot, the pope was denounced as a traitor to his country, his prime minister Rossi was stabbed to death while ascending the steps of the Cancelleria, whither he had gone to open the parliament, and on the following day the pope himself was besieged in the Quirinal. Palma, a papal prelate, who was standing at a window, was shot…

“Pius IX escaped from the Quirinal in disguise, 24 November, and fled to Gaëta where he was joined by many of the cardinals…On 12 April, 1850, Pius IX returned to Rome, no longer a political liberalist…

“The loss of his temporal power was only one of the many trials that filled the long pontificate of Pius IX. There was scarcely a country, Catholic or Protestant, where the rights of the Church were not infringed upon…

“His greatest achievements are of a purely ecclesiastical and religious character.

“It is astounding how fearlessly he fought, in the midst of many and severe trials, against the false liberalism which threatened to destroy the very essence of faith and religion. In his Encyclical "Quanta Cura" of 8 December, 1864, he condemned sixteen propositions touching on errors of the age.

“This Encyclical was accompanied by the famous "Syllabus errorum", a table of eighty previously censured propositions bearing on pantheism, naturalism, rationalism, indifferentism, socialism, communism, freemasonry, and the various kinds of religious liberalism…

“On 29 June, 1869, he issued the Bull "Æterni Patris", convoking the Vatican Council which he opened in the presence of 700 bishops on 8 Dec., 1869. During its fourth solemn session, on 18 July, 1870, the papal infallibility was made a dogma of the Church.”

Obviously, if the Church considered the Pope to be divine, this is the place that it would be asserted.

It absolutely did NOT! The Vatican I Council said the Pope was protected from error when making an ex cathedra dogmatic declaration on matters of faith ONLY BECAUSE OF assistance from the Holy Spirit.

Here is a link to the actual decrees of Vatican I http://www.piar.hu/councils/ecum20.htm

Scroll down to Session 4, 18 July 1870, Chapters 1 through 4, which relate to the papacy.

Chapter 2 states in part:

1.That which our lord Jesus Christ, the prince of shepherds and great shepherd of the sheep, established in the blessed apostle Peter, for the continual salvation and permanent benefit of the church, must of necessity remain for ever, by Christ's authority, in the church which, founded as it is upon a rock, will stand firm until the end of time [45].

2.For no one can be in doubt, indeed it was known in every age that the holy and most blessed Peter, prince and head of the apostles, the pillar of faith and the foundation of the catholic church, received the keys of the kingdom from our lord Jesus Christ, the saviour and redeemer of the human race, and that to this day and for ever he lives and presides and exercises judgment in his successors the bishops of the holy Roman see, which he founded and consecrated with his blood [46].

Therefore whoever succeeds to the chair of Peter obtains by the institution of Christ himself, the primacy of Peter over the whole church. So what the truth has ordained stands firm, and blessed Peter perseveres in the rock-like strength he was granted, and does not abandon that guidance of the church which he once received [47]

Chapter 3 states in part:

5. This power of the supreme pontiff by no means detracts from that ordinary and immediate power of episcopal jurisdiction, by which bishops, who have succeeded to the place of the apostles by appointment of the holy Spirit, tend and govern individually the particular flocks which have been assigned to them. On the contrary, this power of theirs is asserted, supported and defended by the supreme and universal pastor; for St Gregory the Great says: "My honour is the honour of the whole church. My honour is the steadfast strength of my brethren. Then do I receive true honour, when it is denied to none of those to whom honour is due." [51]

6. Furthermore, it follows from that supreme power which the Roman pontiff has in governing the whole church, that he has the right, in the performance of this office of his, to communicate freely with the pastors and flocks of the entire church, so that they may be taught and guided by him in the way of salvation.

There is no hint that the Pope (called the Roman pontiff) is any way divine. In fact, in making infallible declarations on dogma, Chapter 4 states:

6.For the holy Spirit was promised to the successors of Peter, not so that they might, by his revelation, make known some new doctrine, but that, by his assistance, they might religiously guard and faithfully expound the revelation or deposit of faith transmitted by the apostles.

There have been some saintly men who have served as pope and others who were not. In fact, that proves my point exactly.

A list of all 266 popes from St. Peter to Benedict XVI is at http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12272b.htm

Some of these Popes are regarded as saints, while others have not been canonized. (Some have been declared “blessed,” which is the step just before someone is declared a saint.)

If a pope were divine, he would not need to be declared a saint. (To be declared a saint, a through investigation must verify that a person lived an exemplary life and that two miracles have to be verified that occurred as a result of their intercession.)

Likewise, that fact that many popes have not been canonized is another indication that they were not regarded as divine.

So, you can see why any Catholic--as well as a non-Catholic who knows anything about the Church--would regard a claim about the divinity of Popes to be totally preposterous.

Accordingly, I request you immediately REMOVE the article, “Lord God our Pope” from your personal page.

Since many anti-Catholics may continue attempt to access the article in order to reinforce their misinformation of the Church and to spread their hatred to others, I also ask you to put a notice on the page where the article was posted indicating that it has been removed because of the many serious errors that have been documented in it.

Now that you know you are totally and completely WRONG in your statements about the Pope, you have a moral obligation to remove the article from the Internet.

Refusal to do that would be a serious sin: Exodus 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

Deuteronomy 5:20 Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbour.

Proverbs 25:18 A man that beareth false witness against his neighbour is a maul, and a sword, and a sharp arrow.

Gospel of St. Matthew 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

Gospel of St. Mark 10:19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.

Gospel of St. Luke 18:20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother. Epistle of St. Paul to the Romans 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

If you have any questions or comments, you are welcome to contact me.

Sincerely,

Art Kelly