User talk:Alutubi

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Appreciate your edits, but...
Hello Alutubi,

Thanks v. much for the information you've added to various pages relating to the history of the Utub tribe. There's a lot of good stuff there, which can be incorporated into wikipedia. However, there are a couple of issues which you need to address in your edits: if there's already a page on the subject please edit that one rather than starting new ones. Duplicate pages are likely to be deleted as with the Original Utub article. Can you not add the information on the Bani Utbah page to the Utub page?

Also, on the History of Bahrain page you state that war broke out between the Al Bin Alis and Sheikh Nasr Al-Madhkur, rather than the Al Khalifas. Have you got a source to back this statement? Everything else indicates that it was the Al Khalifas.

When you're introducing individuals and subjects it would be helpful if you could wikify their names or say who they are and why they're relevant, because it'd raise the standard too.

Best with the edits,

Dilmun (talk) 22:14, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Hello Dilmunm,

unfortunately i cannot add the information on the Bani Utbah page to Utub because everytime i do someone removes it and puts the wrong information about the utub. The term "utub" applies to whomever carried the last name "Alutbi" in their ownership's documents. "Al utbi" is the singular word for "Utub" as "Utub" is the plural word for "Al Utbi".And they desend from the Bani Utbah tribe relating to their great grand father "Utbah" from the Bani Sulaim Tribe of Hijaz. The word "Bani" means sons there Bani Utbah means sons of Utbah. The Al Bin Ali's are the only tribe to have the last name "Al Utbi" in their ownership's documents and Unfortunately the Al Khalifa's Al Sabah's and Al Jalahma do not obtain a singke ownership's document with the last name "Al Utbi". Therefore they are not the Utub, they are families from the |Anizah" tribe that arrived in Kuwait and entered under the Umbrella of the Utub in kuwait.

As for the war that broke out between Shaikh Nasr and Al Bin Ali's is undoubtful, Shaikh Hamad Bin Isa Al-Khalifa (Current King of Bahrain) wrote in one of his books that i have kept as a reference on that page that the Sword of Nasr Al madhkoor fell into the hands of Salama Bin Saif Al Bin Ali. If the war was between the Al Khalifa's and nasr Al Madhkoor why would the sword fall in to the hands of the Al Binali's rather than the Al Khalifa's? The Historian John C Wilkinson mentioned in his book Arabia;s frontier: The Story of Britain's Boundary Drawing in the Desert page 44 that the Al Bin Ali were a politically important group that moved backwards and forwards between Qatar and Bahrain, they were the original dominant group of Zubara area. And it is known as a fact that the Al Khalifa in the year 1782 during the war between Al Bin Ali's and Nasr Al madhkoor were only 4 persons and when i mean 4 persons i mean men who are capable of handling big issues like fighting in war, etc. They were Ahmed, Muqrin, Ali, and Ebrahim who were the sons of Mohamed Bin Khalifa the great grand father of the Al Khalifa family. They had a brother called Khalifa which died in Haj before the war of Zubarah with Nasr Al Madhkoor. What proves this is the Family Tree of Al Khalifa which clearly shows that the sons of Mohamed Bin Khalifa the great grand father of the Al Khalifa were 5 with one who got passed away in Haj. So can 4 persons fight an army of Nadr Al Madhkoor? can 4 persons conquer bahrain? There is something called Logic and evidence. The Sword of Nasr Al Madhkoor can be seen today at the King Abdulaziz museum in Riyadh when one of the Shaikh's of Al binali called Rashid Bin fAdhel gace the sword as a gift to King Abdulaziz Al Saud.

The Problem is that many historians depended on one or two historians that wrote false information based on the information that was told to them and not redearched by them!

Hi Alutubi, I understand your reasoning. But as I have mentioned before, your claims may be true but they are YOUR claims and do not belong on Wikipedia until they are published somewhere else first. You have taken several primary sources and made your own conclusion, which may or may not be a correct interpretation, but nonetheless violates Wikipedia's policy of No original research. The page states (WP:PSTS): To the extent that part of an article relies on a primary source, it should:


 * only make descriptive claims about the information found in the primary source, the accuracy and applicability of which is easily verifiable by any reasonable, educated person without specialist knowledge, and
 * make no analytic, synthetic, interpretive, explanatory, or evaluative claims about the information found in the primary source.

Furthermore, many of your primary sources are not even verifiable, especially the scanned documents published on the websites such a this one:. How do we know that the document is authentic and has not been doctored? Has it been published elsewhere? Does it even exist in the private library of Shaikh Salama bin Saif? If we can not verify this then the document can not be accepted. (See WP:VER).

For these reasons I will remove your edits. Please don't take it personally.

--Arabbi (talk) 16:46, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Hello Arabbi, I have put primary sources which proves by Logic that what i am saying is true. For Example, you (Araabi) say that the Utub migrated from najd in the late seventeenth century and B.J Slot mentioned that the Utub were present in the pearl banks of bahrain in the seventeenth century!! So basically your interpretation is wrong! And what proves slot's statement is the document of palm garden ownership for shaikh salama bin saif Al Utbi in 1699 in Bahrain!! And about my primary sources being not verifiable i guess you are wrong because maybe you didn't even check the books to see if it matches what i said or not. This document (Salama Bin Saif) is a document has witnesses signed and it is from the old Bahraini Court back in the seventeenth century and you say how do we know if its authentic? This document is one of 50 documents that are kept with the Al Bin Ali tribe in Bahrain, Qatar, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia (Eastern Province), and U.A.E. These documents can be seen in the Al Bin Ali Majlis in Bahrain where the documents are showcased to anyone that enters the Majlis. IF you are willing to come and visit Bahrain, I would be glad to show you the documents and translate them for you since they are in Arabic. I don't blame you for all this because the historical errors have stuck in your mind based on false information from stories told by people without any historical reference or evidence backing their statements because the Al Bin Ali Documents and the Ottoman Document as well as other documents proves that all the info that you have put about the Utub is wrong. Word is that there is a new book about the Utub will be published in Arabic and English which will correct all the info that was said about the Utub. I think then you will believe that what i put is not false info and then you will be forced to put the correct info with evidence rather than relying on the false info that has no evidence. I repeat if you will visit Bahrain, I would be more than glad to show you the documents as well as translate them, btw the Al bin Ali still own these palm gardens til today in the Islands of Sitra and Nabih Saleh in Bahrain.

Thank You

Al utubi

7abibi Al Utubi, The question isn't whether the documents really exist. The question is whether they are verifiable. If the documents are kept in the Al Bin Ali Majlis then it is not verifiable. If they have been published by a reliable publisher, then it can be used as a primary source. If a reliable authority has written about the documents then it can be used as a tertiary source.

But even then wikipedia discourages using primary sources, as I showed above. It should only be used for descriptive purposes, not to make analytic judgements about a theory.

Thanks --Arabbi (talk) 19:16, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

December 2011
Welcome to Wikipedia. It might not have been your intention, but your recent edit removed content from Al Bin Ali with this edit. When removing content, please specify a reason in the edit summary and discuss edits that are likely to be controversial on the article's talk page. If this was a mistake, don't worry; the content has been restored, as you can see from the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Al_Bin_Ali&action=history page history]. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia, and if you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Thank you. ItsZippy (talk • contributions) 19:46, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

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