User talk:American Idol Maniac

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Please remember to sign your messages on talk pages by typing four tildes ( ~ ); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Questions, ask me on my talk page, or, and a volunteer should respond shortly. Again, welcome! Calm Omaha (talk) 05:45, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

American Idol
Please note that when someone objects to you edits, discuss the edits in discussion. You are not changing it to a consistent format, you are actually turning it into something completely inconsistent with other season. Hzh (talk) 08:44, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Please note that the discussion is open at Talk:American Idol (season 15). You should discuss your edit and massive changes to the article in the discussion. Discussion is important per WP:BRD and try to achieve consensus per WP:CONACHIEVE. You will need to address the points raised in the discussion. Hzh (talk) 09:43, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

Your edits are becoming disruptive. Discuss it first, please don't try to claim you are making it consistent when you are doing the opposite. Hzh (talk) 15:22, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

It's really not disruptive and I absolutely am trying to make them more standardized. I have been adding specific explanations for each edit if you would like to discuss specific instances. However, I can point out all kinds of inconsistencies from one season to the next. You are not looking very closely if you think they are already consistent. They are not at all.


 * You can discuss it in Talk:American Idol (season 15) or in the individual article. I'm talking here about the regional audition section here, you kept changing it to multiple tables, saying that it is to keep it consistent when you are doing the exact opposite. It make no sense to change it at all. Hzh (talk) 15:38, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

Well, the season 15 table, for example, is definitely not accurate. It only lists 1 air date for each city, even though each city was featured in multiple episodes and each episode featured multiple cities. The audition cities are listed in the ratings table. Compare it to the season 16 table, which is correctly using episode #s to show how the episodes and cities corresponded. And, as I've already explained, there's really no reason for the bus cities and other special audition locations to be excluded. They are just as valid of an audition method. The tables are very incomplete without the bus city information.American Idol Maniac (talk) 15:51, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

Also, another example, the season 9 table includes the guest judges in the table already but the other seasons with guest judges don't. That makes no sense at all.American Idol Maniac (talk) 17:22, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, but I don't see on this talk page where you are categorized as males or females, as you did in American Idol (season 5). Seriously, don't do that. Drmies (talk) 13:21, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
 * OK, you're going to have to stop with those formatting and content changes. Hzh, thanks for leaving that note earlier: this is going way too far. Discuss on a general talk or project page. Drmies (talk) 13:23, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Stop or I will block you. I'll drop a formal note since apparently simple words weren't clear enough. Drmies (talk) 13:25, 14 April 2018 (UTC)

First of all, I don't even understand what you are trying to say about the males/females thing. What does this talk page have to do with the format of particular American Idol semi-finals? Would you please elaborate to clarify it...

Most importantly, the American idol pages have been an absolute mess for a long time and I finally decided to try doing something about it, seeing as nobody else has. However, now that I have begun to correct things, there is suddenly an issue? That makes no sense at all. You have not even said anything specifically as to what I did that you deem is wrong. It seems that you and another editor are being very stubborn and defensive over a series of pages that have not been well maintained with any sort of standards. It's ridiculous. I'm willing to discuss things in details that you or anyone objects to and we can come to a consensus. You really have the wrong idea. It's not vandalism at all.

Secondly, you literally banned me merely 4 minutes after your first message to me and 2 minutes after your second message to me, which I had not even had time to see yet, let alone respond to. That seems awfully premature and trigger-happy to me. You could have at least given the curteousy of time to notice and reply.

I realize that many of the changes I have been making are significant but they are not unjustified or without precedent on the various pages for the American Idol seasons. I will gladly explain any changes that I made and we can talk about it. My main goal has been to get all the pages "on the same page", instead of the inconsistent mess that they have long been. Believe me, they are extremely incosistent and filled with both random information and inaccuracies.American Idol Maniac (talk) 19:47, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I didn't ban you; I blocked you. You had plenty of time. The absolute mess you see, the extreme inconsistency and all that, you can discuss that on the project/talk pages. Your edits are inconsistent with the MOS, with RS, and with common sense. Drmies (talk) 02:46, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

Banned or blocked, my point still stands. Sending me 3 messages within 4 minutes is hardly plenty of time.

Regarless, I still stand by all of my edits and, if they must be discussed, so be it. I am willing to do that. Perhaps I just did not go about my changes the right away but I must personally say that I think discussing every tiny little thing that I believe needs to be changed is going to be pain stakingly exhausting and tedious, especially when it all couldn't be more obvious to me, but that's what I will do if I must. Not correcting the issues is what goes against common sense, as far as I can see. However, in my opinion, very few will have the patience to even read it and things will probably not significantly improve at a reasonable rate.

Also, I believe you forgot to reverse my edits on the last handful of seasons (starting around season 12 or so). I suppose you may as well just undo those too so we can start back at the beginning again.

I feel like we got off on the wrong foot and my vision for the articles has been totally misunderstood. I spent a lot of time attempting to improve them, only for you to just undo all of them in a single move, without mentioning any specifics, whatsoever. My intentions are merely to improve the series of American Idol articles.

Anyhow, I am ready and eager to discuss the litany of concerns and ideas that I have but I am unable to do that seeing as I am still blocked.

Additionally, I have a question about where such discussion shall take place, as the consistency between pages for each season is a major part of the problem and, thus, I suppose the general outline (in other words, the table of contents) and standards need to first be discussed. Where shall that be discussed, seeing as it regards the season pages, collectively, but not the main American Idol article?American Idol Maniac (talk) 03:21, 15 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Painstaking and tedious, that describes just about every other Wikipedia conflict, I'm afraid. Your boldness is appreciated, but here you ran into opposition which you did not address. I was looking yesterday for a good place to discuss these things, but found that Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Idol series isn't very active. Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Television is slightly more active and maybe a better place. Or Talk:American Idol. You can start a discussion on the one and place a link on the other. knows this subject matter better; Hzh, your guidance is appreciated. Drmies (talk) 16:21, 15 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Given that that the editor was attempting to do large scale changes to multiple pages, then any of the articles involved could be used as a place for discussion. That should be clear from the early messages I wrote to the editor. If necessary, other editors interested in the subject might be invited to join the discussion. I don't object to some of the edits made, but some of the others were completely unnecessary, duplicating information and creating a mess (for example splitting a table where it is unnecessary to do so, and trying to create a big prominent table about something that is barely shown on television).Some of the edits in the articles are also not sourced and could be considered original research, and they may also be not directly relevant to the article. There is a feeling that many editors are trying to add all the trivia vaguely related to the show to the articles so that it is somehow "complete" (an impossible task given the amount of trivia there is around about the show). There is also no need to try to force a consistent format given that show has evolved through the seasons, trying to make it consistent simply does not make sense.  Hzh (talk) 17:14, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

After reflecting on it, I must admit that the way in which I was editing may have been a bit sporadic, for lack of a better word. It is a huge understatement to say the the seasons need major improvements. That much is clear as day to me. However, I realize that it is going to take quite a bit of time to do it properly and develop a game plan for tackling a project of such magnitude. It's definitely an overwhelming task. You're right though...very few seem to be monitoring the talk pages. Hopefully, I do not find myself talking to a wall, but I will start a discussion sometime in the coming days, when I have some more free time.

One more thing, for now...I just noticed that a handful of the seasons' articles suddenly seem to have been reverted to my last edit, before you undid them, and your most recent provisions are missing from the logs. What is that about? Who did that?American Idol Maniac (talk) 17:17, 15 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure what you mean, Maniac; I looked at a few and they are in the "pre-Maniac" stage. Can you be specific?, I appreciate your note and for me, with some experience here, they make sense, but it would be more helpful in this case if you could help me/us figure out what the best centralized place is to have one single discussion. I know that they did this for the Eurovision contests. Thank you, Drmies (talk) 17:28, 15 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't believe there is a centralized place to discuss it, therefore any of the articles involved could be used (in the past we just use one of the season articles involved). Obviously we can use the Talk:American Idol, but the most active place at the moment is the current season Talk:American Idol (season 16). I think it does not really matter where, as long as people can be directed to the discussion. If necessary notices may be placed in various WikiProjects (e.g. Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Television, Reality television task force) to invite comment should the discussion gets bogged down and not going anywhere. Hzh (talk) 17:54, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

Drmies, sorry for not responding sooner. I've been busy the last few days. Anyways, a few seasons like 3 and 6 seem to have not been edited since my editing spree, as well as some other randomly retained aspects on certain seasons' pages.American Idol Maniac (talk) 01:02, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

April 2018
This is your only warning; if you vandalize Wikipedia again, you may be blocked from editing without further notice. Drmies (talk) 13:25, 14 April 2018 (UTC)

You have been blocked from editing for a period of 31 hours for persistently making disruptive edits. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions. If you think there are good reasons for being unblocked, please read the guide to appealing blocks, then add the following text below the block notice on your talk page:. Drmies (talk) 13:27, 14 April 2018 (UTC)