User talk:An Original Leg

Welcome!
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Happy editing! JarrahTree 09:59, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

Thanks JarrahTree! I will do my best to bumble through it all!!

Legs on the Wall
Hi AOL, sorry but I'm going to have to keep removing unreferenced content on Legs On The Wall. Content on Wikpedia needs to be verifiable and not original research. Could you find independent reliable sources to reference in telling the story? Boneymau (talk) 01:37, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

HI Boneymau I will keep working through this. As you guessed, it is original research...and the period from 1984-1993 has much less stuff online. This is why the story is important... we will keep working at it....best regards
 * Sorry, who is "we"? Accounts can only be used by one person. HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 23:53, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

HI HickoryOughtShirt?4 'We' refers to several people logging in. This is clear in the history. Noone is using the same account... This is simply some people trying to give this history of a performing arts group that had a major influence in Australian Theatre. We will learn to do it properly. Please be patient....best regards

September 2020
Hello and welcome to Wikipedia. When you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion (but never when editing articles), please be sure to sign your posts. There are two ways to do this. Either: This will automatically insert a signature with your username or IP address and the time you posted the comment. This information is necessary to allow other editors to easily see who wrote what and when.
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  ◊ PRAHLAD balaji (M•T•A•C) This message was left at 05:59, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

Managing a conflict of interest
Hello, An Original Leg. We welcome your contributions, but if you have an external relationship with the people, places or things you have written about on Wikipedia, you may have a conflict of interest (COI). Editors with a conflict of interest may be unduly influenced by their connection to the topic. See the conflict of interest guideline and FAQ for organizations for more information. We ask that you:


 * avoid editing or creating articles about yourself, your family, friends, colleagues, company, organization or competitors;
 * propose changes on the talk pages of affected articles (you can use the request edit template);
 * disclose your conflict of interest when discussing affected articles (see Conflict of interest);
 * avoid linking to your organization's website in other articles (see WP:Spam);
 * do your best to comply with Wikipedia's content policies.

In addition, you are required by the Wikimedia Foundation's terms of use to disclose your employer, client, and affiliation with respect to any contribution which forms all or part of work for which you receive, or expect to receive, compensation. See Paid-contribution disclosure.

Also, editing for the purpose of advertising, publicising, or promoting anyone or anything is not permitted. Thank you. ThatMontrealIP (talk) 06:13, 12 September 2020 (UTC)


 * Hi ThatMontrealIP Thanks for taking the time to comment and assist. In 1984 I, with others, established Legs On the Wall.  This is a not-for-profit performing arts company. It is a charity in Australian legal definitions. It operates today, however has long since passed over to other people in terms of board members, and performers.  That's what happens when your legs get old.  So while I was involved, and know the history, the company was not mine nor am I being paid.  My interest in writing the entry is to get the establishment phase correct (the first ten years).  The company established a new theatre language worldwide, and this is important. Because of this, it has performed on five continents.


 * I have encouraged other founding members to also sign in to Wikipedia and build the history. So far I have one person (the slightly exuberant other writer).  I shall work on the 'conflict of interest' to see how this can work...An Original Leg (talk) 06:46, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Hello! your intentions are good, but the fact is that we strongly discourage article subject from editing article pages. Please use the talk page to request corrections.ThatMontrealIP (talk) 07:14, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

Hi ThatMontrealIP, thank you again for taking the time with my concern. I will use the talk page (when I figure it out). In reality, I am not the article subject. The article subject is "How did Legs on the Wall win the Myer Performing Arts Award?" It is a complex process made up of people and processes... We may also ask "Why is Legs on the Wall in existence today?". Answers to these questions relate to the performing arts, and Australia's growing knowledge of itself. We are not defined by people rich enough to have third parties write our history. We come to Wikipedia because, above all, it is not defined by wealth or privilege, but a desire for knowledge. I work with scientists, and observation/first person accounts are the most important....why is wikipedia now different?An Original Leg (talk) 07:55, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

September 2020
Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. You appear to be repeatedly reverting or undoing other editors' contributions. Although this may seem necessary to protect your preferred version of a page, on Wikipedia this is known as "edit warring" and is usually seen as obstructing the normal editing process, as it often creates animosity between editors. Instead of reverting, please discuss the situation with the editor(s) involved and try to reach a consensus on the talk page.

If editors continue to revert to their preferred version they are likely to lose their editing privileges. This isn't done to punish an editor, but to prevent the disruption caused by edit warring. In particular, editors should be aware of the three-revert rule, which says that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Edit warring on Wikipedia is not acceptable in any amount, and violating the three-revert rule is very likely to result in loss of your editing privileges. Thank you. Glen (talk) 10:07, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

Hi Glen I don't wish to engage in this. I have gone through the tea house, and really everyone is creating a Catch22.

I will revert to the previous edit, just to reduce the tension. I am intrigued by all of this, you can follow my comments on site...

best regards Brian


 * Wikipedia can be very tricky when you first arrive (what brought me to Wikipedia for the first time was an article about me so I get it) but there are some firm rules that you do need to be aware of. The conflict of interest information that has been posted above is really good advice. I'd highly recommend you read it clearly. You may even want to post the connected contributor template to the article's talk page so your disclosure is clear. As I said when you first arrive it's a bit of a minefield so take your time, and certainly don't start undoing experienced editors edits (especially without explanation), I can almost certainly say that won't end well. We're here to help when we can. Glen (talk) 10:23, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

Hi Glen I can honestly say you are the nicest person I have met on Wikipedia. Thank you for your time and understanding. I have found some very aggressive people who seem to have been given some licence to abuse people. Having contributed to the foundation, and believing in the work I have found this a bit distressing....Brian


 * Hi An Original Leg, I came here after seeing the discussion at the Teahouse. As Glen says, it can be really tricky to navigate the various help texts and guidelines at Wikipedia, and although several other editors have given you excellent advice already, I wanted to emphasise something that has perhaps been hidden among the comments. Articles in an encyclopedia such as Wikipedia should not include any personal reflections, nor any evaluative language in Wikipedia's voice, so we cannot write comments such as "[...] transformed themselves into an old and crotchety couple. Demented, bickering, profanely domestic. Their clowning was a frightening forbearing of old age and coupledom at its worst...", or "[Name] was hooked...poor [Name]". Such personal commentary would belong on a personal or official website of the company, but not in an encyclopedia article. The sheer wealth of detail you included in the background/history section is also not really appropriate in this context.


 * This writing style is not always easy to adopt, and in particular it can be very difficult to sort through the details when you know the topic really well, and decide what is more or less relevant to include. One key strategy is to only include information that has already been published in reliable sources. Wikipedia can't be a place to provide new and previously unpublished information. But it is also the case that not everything that is published belongs in Wikipedia, and that is something that is much easier to see once you have had some experience editing Wikipedia articles. None of us is a professional Wikipedia editor, we all do this as a hobby, but people who have been editing a wide range of articles do develop an eye for what is too much detail, what is promotional rather than informational, and so on. Please don't be offended when others edit the text you add, or even remove it. Instead, start a discussion about it on the article talk page. Regards, --bonadea contributions talk 11:05, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
 * (By the way, the article talk page is at Talk:Legs On The Wall.) --bonadea contributions talk 11:08, 12 September 2020

Hi Bonadea Your comments have been so much appreciated...thank you. I have gone back and set up a user page, and researched the various elements. I will now work on experienced editor review, once I have worked the article to a proper state. And I am declaring my COI...properly I hope. As I have mentioned previously, I do have a COI, however the company is a charity and has worked with its own Board outside of any influence from me for many decades. I also will be able to build the references necessary... of the proper standard.

Your time and trouble encouraged me to continue... so thanks ...heaps...

An Original Leg (talk) 00:07, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

I will help...
I am sure your head is spinning with all the infomation, sorry! If you can provide some " secondary source material", like newspaper or magazine artcles, we can use them for the article. They do NOT have to be on the internet. WP uses books, magazines, newspapers, etc. that are not internet accessible, so that is not a barrier. I am willing to help with this, if you have the sources. I can help format them as references, and copyedit the info in proper WP encyclopedia style.

Also, if you wish, you could scan the material and email it to me. I have a WP only email address. Go to my user page, and over to the left you will see "email this user". That will connect you to my email. If you click on Preferences at the top of the page, it will allow you to add your own email address. For security, I suggest you open a fresh G Mail account (or whatever) to use for WP purposes, rather than your personal email account.

Then, I could read the material, summarize, etc., and add to the article. Anyone who has a WP "account" can email this way. Let me know, if you think this could help you. If you have questions, write them here on your page, and I will see them, because I have "watchlisted" WP:W your page. Best wishes,  Tribe of Tiger Let's Purrfect!  06:22, 14 September 2020 (UTC) So sorry, just looked at "your version" of the article, and see that there are sources. I will work with them, and see what can be done!  Tribe of Tiger Let's Purrfect!  07:16, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Hi Tribe of Tiger...you are so generous, thank you for looking, for your time, and your generosity. I have made a sandbox userpage for Legs On The Wall, and need to work through the referencing. Some is good...the National Library of Australia has some elements in their collection, some referencing is in published books, a lot is in newspaper articles...so not completely hopeless. Some is complete rubbish, so I need to get rid of it. I have copied everything into the Legs On The Wall Userpage sandbox. It would be fabulous if you wished to look at it anytime. I do work with grey and black literature in what I do presently, so I totally understand everyone's comments (and really appreciate them).An Original Leg (talk) 07:26, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I may be away from editing, until Thursday... The sandbox is a great idea. And it is a blessing, that you have access to, and understand how to find references! Just by reading a ref already present in the article, I found this:


 * "Legs On the Wall is well known for performing hair-raising aerial and acrobatic feats at massive events such as the Sydney and Beijing Olympics. That reputation is being consolidated with its new commission from Arts Council England to perform at the London 2012 Cultural Olympiad, the artistic arm of the Games."..


 * This is impressive to me, the Sydney and Beijing Olympics, and the London 2012 Cultural Olympiad. My thought that is the most important/impressive info should be added first, and then "worry about" detailed (and possibly hard to source) info later. I hope this helps. Tribe of Tiger Let's Purrfect!  06:45, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

Ha, ha...yes, the central section of the opening ceremony at the Sydney Games was Legs on the Wall. I think the work they did just prior was better https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caMwBKJCyM8...this work is also captured in the National Library of Australia. I am interested in the lead up to these works... In Australia, a lot of energy goes into funding the Opera (which is great....), however native work drawing on our culture is much more important. Culturally, opera is an amazing European artform... but we also have our own voice... It is the process of developing this voice which I would like to capture.... An Original Leg (talk) 08:15, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
 * The article has a book, "Devising Performance" listed as a source. Click and the link takes you to Google Books. Search for "Legs on the Wall" and choose page 164. There is a good bit of info regarding the beginnings, and aims of LOTW. This may be helpful to your purpose. I was able to access several pages....Let me know what you think. Tribe of Tiger Let's Purrfect!  06:15, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

Hi Tribe of Tiger, Wow, I didn't know this book existed. This is closer to the actual....Debra Batton led the second phase...Thanks so much ...An Original Leg (talk) 08:43, 20 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Oh, I am glad this will help...I thought it looked good....sitting there, innocently, in the article! In my time editing WP, I have learned to "mine" the sources. Sometimes a past editor has added a source, as a reference for only one or two facts. I will start reading, and discover that I can expand the article, just from the sources already there. Seriously, though, glad to help. Your thank you made my day!  Tribe of Tiger Let's Purrfect!  08:57, 20 September 2020 (UTC)