User talk:Anderswarr

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Brown vs. grizzly bear
Anderswarr,

The common usage in Alaska describes bears as "brown" in coastal areas and "grizzly" in inland areas. This is standard terminology used by biologists and land managers - see the ADFG page on brown bears, for example. Please discuss your proposed changes to any article on the article's talk page, as they are not uncontroversial. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 22:47, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

April-May 2014

 * I've found your note to : the references to Brown and Busch are useful, though they're general-readership works and it's not clear what they actually say about the common-language taxonomy. In any case, the weight of common usage and usage of the FWS, NPS and Alaskan agencies does not support a blanket change to "grizzly." You are expected to stop and discuss your edits, as the burden of proof is on the editor making the bold change. What, specifically, do Brown and Busch state about the naming? Is it stated as their opinion, or do they cite scientific journals to substantiate the terminology? It's one thing if they opine "they're really all grizzlies:" it's another if they state something like "the coastal Ursus arctos horribilis population in Alaska are referred to as grizzly bears in scientific publications and by Alaskans"  Acroterion   (talk)   01:42, 20 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Brown, Busch, and several other authors say that the coastal Ursus arctos horribilis are grizzly bears as well because they think it is less confusing. And they refer to all European ones as "brown bears" because it is less confusing. They do make reference to sources that call them browns, but they ignore the common usage and go by their own ways because it is less confusing - that's a fact. It would be fine to call coastal ones browns and inland ones grizzlies if they were a different subspecies, but they're all in Ursus arctos horribilis, so calling them by different names is confusing. Only the geographically isolated Kodiak bears are a different subspecies.

I have finally decided to bring up the confusion experienced whhen calling them by different names. Pretend I am a visitor to Kobuk Vally National Park in northern Alaska. When we see an Ursus arctos the guide will say "Look, there's a grizzly bear!" And then we might see a black bear as well. Then, when we go to Lake Clark or Katmai, the guide will say "brown bear" instead. They might think there are three species of bears they have seen, but they really saw only two. With the guide's explanation, they will find out that grizzlies and browns are the same species, but the viewer will likely have lots of questions about why they are named differently. It is not incorrect to call them grizzlies, which is what you said earlier, but "brown" is the common usage.  Anderswarr   (talk)   01:42, 20-25 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Yes, you're right. And Brown and Bush are right, from an ideal taxonomy point of view. Nobody is arguing that. That doesn't mean that you should systematically go through articles on brown bears in North America and change them all to grizzlies because it pleases your personal views (or Brown and Bush's views) on common naming practice. Taxonomy and common naming practice are messy, and it's a distortion of real world language for Wikipedia to pretend it isn't. Wikipedia follows, it does not lead, and it's not an appropriate place to get Alaskans to stop calling coastal bears brown bears.   Acroterion   (talk)   01:08, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Kukaklek Lake
You've got the makings of a Did You Know?-eligible article here - great work! If we can expand it to 1,500 characters in the next two or three days (it's almost there now!) I will help you get it nominated and through the process to become featured on the front page of Wikipedia. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 16:10, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

Why calling both inland and coastal European bears and coastal American bears brown bears and inland ones grizzlies is irrelevant

 * If you go online, and search for photos of coastal and inland Ursus arctos, you'll see that most results say "brown bear". And when you search for pictures of most North American Ursus arctos, you'll see that most say "grizzly bear".

But looking for photos of coastal Alaska bears will also get brown bear as the most common name. Why should people refer to all Eurasian subspecies and coastal Alaskan ones as brown bears and call inland North American ones grizzlies? It's not easy to remember which is which, so calling them by different names is irrelevant and stupid.

This is why people should not refer to coastal American ones as grizzlies. In Eurasia, inland ones are in the subspecies Ursus arctos arctos and coastal Kamchatka bears are in the subspecies Ursus arctos beringianus. They are distinguished as a different subspecies by size, weight, and behavior habits. The same thing is shown in North American bears. So why aren't they called all grizzlies? Is it because Alaskans like brown bear better? Is is because they hate grizzly bear? And coastal browns and inland grizzlies aren't even a different subspecies! So why the hell would people call them by different names?!

These are some incorrect reasons that people use to distinguish then as a different subspecies and name:

1. "Inland grizzlies" are smaller than "coastal browns". No, this is not true. The grizzlies of coastal British Columbia (especially those in the Bella Coola Valley) are just as large as coastal Alaska bears and not far short of the size of Kodiak bears.

2. Inland grizzlies don't have the same food supplies as coastal browns. No, this is not true. All grizzlies of the BC coast and even some grizzlies of the Rockies (esp. Yellowstone NP) get the same food supplies, salmon and trout, as coastal bears, though in some cases not as much.

3. Browns and grizzlies are a different subspecies.

No, this is not true. As I have explained before, all NA browns and grizzlies are in the subspecies Ursus arctos horribilis except Kodiak bears.

Other incorrect answers:

5. The average weight for a coastal brown bear is 600-900 pounds.

No, they are bigger than that. A large male "inland grizzly" can easily reach that weight. The average weight for a coastal brown bear is 800-1000 pounds.

6. Coastal brown bears live an average lifespan of 20 years and the oldest was 35 years.

No, the average lifespan is 20-25 years, and the oldest bear was 40 years. In captivity one bear lived for 55 years!

On their Brown Bear Frequently Aasked Questions page, the National Park Service educates people about North American "brown bears" using these incorrect questions. They need to do some studying on bear behavior and taxonomy.

I'd recommend to all who read this page to look over this section, and if they call coastal ones browns, I'd recommend they read the 3 questions and reconsider what name they should really use.

So there.  Anderswarr   (talk)   01:42, 20-25 May 2014 (UTC)

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 * Thank you!Anderswarr (talk) 01:30, 28 January 2024 (UTC)