User talk:Andre Kritzinger/Archive 2010

SAR Class 26
Thanks for your work on expanding this. It's good to see people adding to the "Modern Steam" content. Andy Dingley (talk) 20:34, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Article title: South African Railways Class NG G13
Hi, I hope this finds you well! I noticed that you moved an article to what you claim in your reasoning was the "official" title of South African Railways Class NG G13. I note from your edit record that you are new to Wikipedia, but the convention on moving established articles is to start a debate on the articles talkpage: please note this in future. On searching Google the results show that the official title is South African Railways Class NG/G13. So, before anyone comes along and moves this article again - we presently have six redirects which don't work thanks to the current move - I have started a debate on the articles talkpage on what the title should be. According to guide WP:TITLE, we don't need to name the article after the official name, but can use most popular searched for. I am also concious in this debate of other editors who have pan-wiki projects to sort locomotive articles on national basis: hence the previous inclusion of South African Railways in the title by one editor, over what seems the official SAR nomenclature for designation of locomotives. Can you please add your thoughts to this debate. If you have any questions, please leave a message on my talkpage - Thank You! Rgds, --Trident13 (talk) 13:16, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Reply...

Hi, my apologies for creating chaos....

After coming across the List of South African locomotive classes and discovering that most SAR classes are listed there but with virtually nothing more than just the list itself, except for the Class NG G13/G16 and Class NG 15, Class 26 and the Class 91 Diesel, I started creating articles (in most cases really just bare bones, but with as much info as I can gather from official documentation) on the various South African locomotives to date. So far I have done the Class 1E, 3E, 4E, 15E and just now the 5E Series 1. I am planning to get all the diesels and electrics at least kicked off, and as much of steam as I have information on.

But I felt that there should be consistency in the naming of the articles, preferably in accordance with what the SAR did, hence my transgression. The creator of the SAR Class GL Garratt article will probably also be cross with me for moving it to the List of South African locomotive classes, where it was listed but not linked to the article.

Problem is, even the SAR itself was not all that consistent. Just from locomotive number plates, I've seen NGG.11 (#54), just NGG (#80), NG 15 (#147), 19D (tiny D) (#2682), 19 D (full size D) (#2683), 19.D. (#2696 & #2698), 19 D (#2701), etc.

The List of South African locomotive classes as it is now is more or less correct, except that some classes will have to be expanded on, eg Class 34 to 34-000, 34-200, 34-400, 34-600, 34-800 and 34-900. Similar to what I’ve started with the Class 5E by splitting it into the three series. The reason is different designers and builders, visual differences between models, etc. At least there I can still alter without causing chaos.

Also, with the present regular new corporate images and names (Spoornet, TFR, Shosholoza…) I used “South African” instead of “Spoornet” (when the orders were placed) or TFR (when it was commissioned) with the new Class 15E.

I've learned a LOT these past three days, and now I'll learn to use the articles talkpage too. Newbies, eh!

Regards

André Kritzinger 15:19, 28 August 2010 (UTC)


 * André your additions are fantastic. Greatly appreciated. -- Firefishy (talk) 08:39, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

FYI
Hi, and thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. It appears that you recently tried to give SAR Class 16E a different title by copying its content and pasting either the same content, or an edited version of it, into another page with a different name. This is known as a "cut and paste move", and it is undesirable because it splits the page history, which is needed for attribution and various other purposes. Instead, the software used by Wikipedia has a feature that allows pages to be moved to a new title together with their edit history.

In most cases, once your account is four days old and has ten edits, you should be able to move an article yourself using the "Move" tab at the top of the page. This both preserves the page history intact and automatically creates a redirect from the old title to the new. If you cannot perform a particular page move yourself this way (e.g. because a page already exists at the target title), please follow the instructions at requested moves to have it moved by someone else. Also, if there are any other pages that you moved by copying and pasting, even if it was a long time ago, please list them at Cut and paste move repair holding pen. Thank you. VernoWhitney (talk) 02:39, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

The "Move" Tab
Thanks, VernoWhitney (talk).

I know about the Move Tab from previous havoc I caused, but couldn't find it on my screen last night. (About 03:30 this morning in fact...) I see it now, though.

I see the Class 16E is fixed, albeit still with the CorenSearchBot label on it. The Class 17E page is clean but it gets redirected the wrong way round, ie from South African to SAR instead of the other way round, SAR to South African. (Think it's safe for me to try fix it...?)

Two other pages I also redirected didn't bring down the CorenSearchBot's wrath, but probably because I only created them a couple of hours earlier.

I may as well have gone with "South African" on all these locomotive pages, instead of "SAR" on the ones that were introduced in the SAR days. Makes things simpler trying to keep up with all these corporate name changes.

Till they change the country's name, at least....

André Kritzinger 10:17, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually I did that, because I was confused. Good job on the fix though. Next time, if you want to make a new name for an existing page, create a new WP:Redirect. Thanks-- in te la ti (Call) 16:26, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

"South African" in lieu of "South African Railways", "Spoornet", "Transnet Freight Rail", etc
The first SA locomotive page I created was for the new Class 15E, at present being commissioned by Transnet Freight Rail. So I used "Transnet Freight Rail" in the title. I then continued with the old Class 1E, 3E and 4E and used "South African Railways" in the titles.

Then I reached the Class 5E's, commissioned by the South African Railways and still in use when SAR became Spoornet and later TFR, and some are even now still in use with Rovos Rail while others were recently sold at auction. The liveries they wear tell the story. The same with the 6E, all eleven of the 6E1 series, 7E's and so on, up to 12E. All of them are still in use, but in SAR, Spoornet, Shosholoza Meyl and TFR liveries, until some new corporate chief gets a new bright idea next week and add another new name. You can add TransNamib and Traction and Tracao and some Brazilian railroad for the diesels. Same with steam, there's some ex SAR narrow gauge locos working at Sandstone Estates in the Free State and some in Wales.

So I decided to stick with "South African" for the lot, since that covers all, even locomotives in mine service such as at Landau Colliery and with Sheltam Grindrod. The same thing happens in the private sector - Landau owners Amcoal is now Anglo Coal. For all I know, next month it'll be Billiton....

After all, the focus of the articles is on the locomotive type, not the owners.

André Kritzinger 18:47, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Talkback
Apologies for taking so long. C628 (talk) 23:20, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

SAR Class 1E
Thank you for all the work on the rail articles. I have added South African Class 1E as the featured picture on Portal:South Africa --NJR_ZA (talk) 12:08, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Keoowl! Thank you. André Kritzinger 12:21, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

DYK
Hi. I've nominated South African Class 15F 4-8-2, an article you worked on, for consideration to appear on the Main Page as part of Did you know. You can see the hook for the article here, where you can improve it if you see fit. Mjroots (talk) 18:42, 8 December 2010 (UTC) Mjroots (talk) 18:42, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
 * That's some pleasant surprise! Thank you. André Kritzinger 19:09, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Slight problem with the article. A minimum of one reference per paragraph is required. Once you've done this, the article will be approved and eventually appear on the main page. Mjroots (talk) 06:42, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Even if it's the same reference para after para? Some were split just to make it read easier. André Kritzinger 08:40, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, even if it's the same reference. Use the WP:REFNAME system to give multiple references to the same source. Mjroots (talk) 10:03, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Better now? André Kritzinger 19:27, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
 * It's getting there. Manufacturers needs more refs (1 per maker). Attributes needs a ref for last para. SAR Number Plates is unreferenced. Take a look at Somerhill House, which I created today. Everything is referenced except one date, which I have temporarily marked as unreferenced pending the addition of a page from a blacklisted website to the whitelist per a request I made for that. Mjroots (talk) 20:37, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Manufacturers is a single para that was bulleted for easier reading and referencing each bullet seems silly. SAR number plates - the picture is actually the reference - link added. André Kritzinger 22:02, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
 * If you move the ref in Manufacturers to the 1st para, then it should be OK, but be prepared that another editor may still require all bulleted entries to be referenced. I'll let DYK know that the references have been addressed, and hopefully another editor will then pass it. Mjroots (talk) 22:18, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Did that, didn't look right, so I just replaced . with : which should make things clear. André Kritzinger 22:56, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
 * It's now been approved, congratulations. Mjroots (talk) 07:21, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

DYK for South African Class 15F 4-8-2
Materialscientist (talk) 00:02, 13 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Congrats, another 24 more and you get a medal! Mjroots (talk) 06:30, 13 December 2010 (UTC)