User talk:AndyHardin

April 2011
The band's name is part of the album title. It's right there on the cover. Several of their early releases follow this convention (where the band name was part of the title). Please do not muck with the title text. --IllaZilla (talk) 22:10, 18 April 2011 (UTC)


 * I did not mean to mess with a previously-edited understanding of the band's album title. No sources outside of Wikipedia mention the album title as including "Against Me!" in the album title, not even the band's own website. Please check your sources and use verifiable references before backing up claims to correctness. Based on multiple outside resources, your assumption appears to be incorrect.


 * 1) http://www.againstme.net/releases/as_the_eternal_cowboy
 * 2) http://musicbrainz.org/release/a216cc04-6983-4962-9e5b-c1c1674895f7.html
 * 3) http://www.discogs.com/Against-Me-As-The-Eternal-Cowboy/master/52276
 * AndyHardin (talk) 22:22, 18 April 2011 (UTC)


 * The title is commonly abbreviated as either As the Eternal Cowboy, The Eternal Cowboy, or simply Eternal Cowboy. However, its full title is Against Me! as the Eternal Cowboy. Again, it's right there on the cover. Just as with Crime as Forgiven by Against Me! (often abbreviated simply Crime) or Against Me! Is Reinventing Axl Rose (often abbreviated Reinventing Axl Rose). The band's name appears twice on the cover: Once as the name alone and once as part of the title. The title does not make sense without the name (who or what is taking the role of—that is, who is "as"—the eternal cowboy?). Musicbrainz and discogs.com are user-contributed. Parallel examples to this are The Vandals Play Really Bad Original Country Tunes, The Aquabats vs. the Floating Eye of Death!, The Dwarves Must Die, Never Mind the Bollocks, Here's the Sex Pistols, and many others where the artist's name is constructed as part of the title. --IllaZilla (talk) 22:35, 18 April 2011 (UTC)


 * I understand what you are trying to prove. The band's name logo on a T-shirt does not necessarily denote that it is a separate instance of the band's name (as relating to the title). I have two more sources (not user editable) showing otherwise. The band's own website lists nowhere that this album is called the full name as you suggest. It merely appears duplicated on the album art cover for the disc because of the T-shirt logo. If the artist intended for the full title to be as you believe, would it not be listed that way on their own website, their own MySpace page, and others as well? I cannot find a single source that claims as you do. Your article seems to be the only place I can find it actually. As Wikipedia is a encyclopedia which directly cites references outside of the site, it would seem reasonable to see links to sources that verify your claims.1. http://www.againstme.net/releases/as_the_eternal_cowboy & 2. http://www.myspace.com/againstme/music/albums/as-the-eternal-cowboy-8109412 Even iTunes sells it with the normal name: http://itunes.apple.com/us/album/sink-florida-sink/id291991868?i=291991952&ign-mpt=uo%3D6
 * Also, the band's own label lists it as I have noted in italics: http://www.fatwreck.com/band/index/2
 * AndyHardin (talk) 22:50, 18 April 2011 (UTC)


 * "The band's name logo on a T-shirt does not necessarily denote that it is a separate instance of the band's name (as relating to the title)." — Actually yes it does. It's in the same manner as the cover of Against Me! Is Reinventing Axl Rose (which, again, is commonly abbreviated as Reinventing Axl Rose in nearly all places you'll find it listed, even though the full title is plain as day right there on the cover). As I said, this is not uncommon. It's not even uncommon that the band lists it differently: They list Crime as Forgiven by Against Me! as Crime as Forgiven By... and Against Me! Is Reinventing Axl Rose as ...Reinventing Axl Rose. Just as The Aquabats generally list their album as Floating Eye, The Vandals generally list theirs as Country Tunes, etc. In all cases the full titles are constructed to incorporate the band's name. Are we to ignore this, simply because the titles are commonly shortened? Of course not. This is really common sense. It would be like abbreviating The Beatles' Second Album as Second Album, or The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill as The Miseducation Of. --IllaZilla (talk) 01:51, 19 April 2011 (UTC)


 * I do see now what you are referring to and how it is correct for all instances of Against Me!. I guess my only issue is with how the exact interpretation of an album's "front cover art" as relating to it's "actual" name is verified. Sure, you can look at an album cover art and read its words and come to a conclusion on a "official" title, but how is the exact meaning to be stated when the art on the front does not list the album name, or when there is no other way of knowing for sure what the artist actually intended an album name to be? Where are these sources to be found? I guess in many cases, the exact name of certain albums can't always be truly verified, aside maybe from first-hand connection to the author and his/her assertion of an assumption? Just some thoughts. AndyHardin (talk) 07:11, 19 April 2011 (UTC)