User talk:AnemoneProjectors/Ronnie swaps her baby for Kat's

Background/filming/development

 * EastEnders: Crying shame - added quote on filming but there's lots about Ronnie's motives and how she's feeling. – Anemone Projectors – 17:23, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Guilt-ridden Ronnie Branning visits dead son James's grave
 * EastEnders star explains Ronnie's actions
 * Samantha Womack to leave EastEnders, even if she didn't leave because of the storyline, this is relevant
 * Enders Sam in 'attack'
 * Samantha Womack 'abused in the street over EastEnders cot death plot'
 * 'Enders baby plot 'could end by April'
 * EastEnders boss confirms accelerated end to Womack baby swap plot
 * 'Enders baby swap plot given 'warm' ending
 * EastEnders baby plot to end early
 * EastEnders' bosses cut short cot-death storyline as storm engulfs BBC and Samantha Womack shows the strain
 * EastEnders executive producer defends baby-swap storyline
 * Eastenders cot death plot brought to premature end
 * EastEnders star 'surprised' by baby plot


 * Eastenders star films controversial storyline at St James' Church, in Bushey Anemone  Projectors  17:31, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
 * BBC explains 'EastEnders' scene changes ("Tommy's" funeral) Anemone  Projectors  19:37, 16 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Ronnie Branning to come clean about baby swap? later stuff – Anemone Projectors – 20:20, 10 February 2011 (UTC)


 * EastEnders baby-swap plot to end with Ronnie to owning up - on the reveal – Anemone Projectors – 22:40, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
 * 'EastEnders' films baby swap climax
 * Another 'Enders Ronnie twist revealed?
 * 'EastEnders' duo discuss baby plot climax – Anemone Projectors – 20:30, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Full Roundup: 'EastEnders' explosive week – Anemone Projectors – 08:54, 11 April 2011 (UTC)


 * After the reveal - interview with Jessie Wallace
 * 'EastEnders' baby confession scene re-shot? – Anemone Projectors – 10:05, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Sam Womack explains baby swap climax MayhemMario (talk) 11:10, 7 May 2011 (UTC)


 * EastEnders boss 'proud' of baby swap – Anemone Projectors – 23:25, 23 May 2011 (UTC)


 * 11 soap actors who hated their own storylines, from EastEnders' Ross Kemp to Coronation Street's Michael Le Vell Anemone  Projectors  10:12, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Scenes "too real" Anemone  Projectors  16:26, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
 * EastEnders video about it — anemone projectors — 14:06, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

Reception

 * 'Unrealistic and hurtful': Mothers take to internet to protest at EastEnders cot death storyline
 * Mums slam baby swap plot
 * Ronnie's 'Enders baby swap draws 9m
 * These plots are rot
 * EastEnders is controversial, but not cheap sensationalism
 * EastEnders - The Big Baby Swap
 * Soaps Ratings Roundup: December 31
 * EastEnders baby death and kidnap plot sees BBC flooded with complaints
 * EastEnders cot death plot: Daily Mirror TV critic Jim Shelley says storyline was 'unnecesary'
 * BBC receives 3,400 complaints over EastEnders cot death storyline (comments from heatworld users)
 * EastEnders: did the cot death plot go too far?
 * 'Cot death is drama enough': Sudden Infant Death charity says EastEnders went too far as 3,500 viewers complain
 * BBC defends 'EastEnders' baby plot Anemone  Projectors  10:28, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Enders lost plot with cot death baby swap (Anne Diamond's comments) Anemone  Projectors  10:45, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Suffolk: ‘Harrowing’ Eastenders storyline shocks baby death mother Anemone  Projectors  12:29, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Ofcom responds to 'EastEnders' complaints
 * Turning human tragedy into hysterical fantasy insults the grief of those, like me, who've known the loss of a baby 77.44.72.240 (talk) 12:01, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
 * EastEnders complaints over controversial baby swap storyline reach 6,000 as Samantha Womack quits
 * Bereaved Scots parents express outrage at EastEnders cot death —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.44.72.240 (talk) 11:30, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Latest 'EastEnders' ep pulls in 10.5m
 * EastEnders: cot death plot complaints hit record
 * Shane Richie and Jessie Wallace – Anemone Projectors – 10:45, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
 * 'EastEnders' bosses deny cast rumours – Anemone Projectors – 10:46, 7 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Is EastEnders making anyone else bang their head against the wall at the moment? - this one relates to when Ronnie handed Tommy back to Kat at the wake. Anemone  Projectors  19:26, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Complaining about the lack of realism in EastEnders is like moaning that Monster Munch crisps don't taste of monsters Frickative  19:33, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
 * EastEnders' baby funeral was gripping, despite pointless sub-plot
 * Getting all in a lather over controversial soap storylines Anemone  Projectors  20:57, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Windsor hits out at EastEnders plot - now this is based on something by the Daily Mirror, but the link for that just redirects to the Mirror website's front page, so maybe it wasn't true. Anemone  Projectors  20:38, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Mum tells how EastEnders plot made her to confess how she was jailed for a baby snatch Amazing!
 * Jim Shelley's World Of Lather – Anemone Projectors – 01:46, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Altman: 'EastEnders row was extreme' another cast reaction – Anemone Projectors – 22:30, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Exclusive: McFadden shocked by 'Enders controversy – Anemone Projectors – 10:42, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Exclusive: 'Enders stars: 'It's good that people complain' – Anemone Projectors – 10:42, 7 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Best Baby Drama nomination at All About Soap Bubble Awards – Anemone Projectors – 19:13, 13 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Patsy Palmer defends 'EastEnders' baby plot – Anemone Projectors – 00:16, 29 April 2011 (UTC)


 * EastEnders: Bring me sonshine reveal reception from Tony Stewart of the Daily Mirror. – Anemone Projectors – 10:04, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
 * This has some reaction from Scott Maslen – Anemone Projectors – 12:47, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
 * 'EastEnders' baby swap fallout nabs 10.2m – Anemone Projectors – 22:57, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Kym Marsh: 'I cried over EastEnders' – Anemone Projectors – 10:24, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Baby snatch victim mum Dawn praises EastEnders storyline This is good, was just going to add it but didn't know where to put it! – Anemone Projectors – 12:07, 4 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Scott Maslen: 'Jack would forgive Ronnie' has a little quote on the storyline from Maslen. – Anemone Projectors – 10:23, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
 * 'EastEnders' actress defends baby plot Kylie Babbington MayhemMario (talk) 11:21, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Mark Thompson defends 'EastEnders' plot BBC's Director General Mark Thompson MayhemMario (talk) 11:21, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Shane Richie defends 'Enders baby plot Shane Richies defends the story MayhemMario (talk) 11:21, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Bennett defends 'EastEnders' baby plot BBC Vision director Jana Bennett MayhemMario (talk) 11:21, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
 * BBC drama boss defends 'Enders baby plot Controller of BBC Drama John Yorke MayhemMario (talk) 11:21, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Daniel Maier's World of lather MayhemMario (talk) 11:21, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
 * British Soap Awards 2011: Panel shortlist revealed a nomination MayhemMario (talk) 11:20, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
 * After EastEnders' Fatboy, other soap characters who have controversially been killed off Anemone  Projectors  09:38, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

Both

 * EastEnders bosses discuss plot U-turn as Mumsnet complains to BBC about baby death and kidnap story Anemone  Projectors  13:07, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
 * EastEnders Samantha Womack plot resolved in ‘coming months’ - very good one this. Anemone  Projectors  13:46, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
 * EastEnders to shorten cot death plot as complaints pass 6,000 Anemone  Projectors  18:27, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Former channel controller Lorraine Heggessey and scriptwriter Simon Ashford ask whether a culture where complaints have such weight will lead to less creative drama. Frickative  03:57, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
 * EastEnders bosses spark more fan fury after axing key funeral scenes in controversial cot-death plot Anemone  Projectors  11:57, 16 January 2011 (UTC) - added for the scenes being cut not not for the response to it. – Anemone  Projectors – 17:46, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Mumsnet's champion Justine Roberts on family life, misogyny… and EastEnders (Mumsnet 'didn't demand EastEnders edits') Anemone  Projectors  17:02, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Bereavement experts and counsellors give views on Eastenders controversial story line Anemone Projectors 22:25, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Not sure if relevant

 * McDermott 'won't watch 'Enders baby plot' Anemone  Projectors  14:45, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Discussion
Would you still like a hand assembling the article, AP? I was thinking about ratings today, and for which episodes they should be detailed. The swap and the reveal are a given, but there have been so many twists, turns and duff duffs that I don't know how, or even if we should pick out any others? Frickative 19:27, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I really really want to do it but I don't know where to start, I don't have time, and I can't be bothered with Wikipedia. So yeah I would still like a hand :-) Hmmmmm what's relevant - probably just the birth/death/swap episodes, and the reveal episodes. I don't think the in-between episodes would be unless some part of the swap-plot was advertised as a main storyline for that episode. So I don't know. Do you think "Baby Swap" is the right name for the article? I decided on that because it's how it was refered to in the award nominaton. – Anemone Projectors – 22:13, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Haha, I know that just cba feeling :) I agree re: ratings, I thought if a swap-centric episode had resulted in a reported upswing or downturn in viewership it could be worth mentioning, but searching The Guardian, I can't see any evidence of that having happened. I think "baby swap" is fine, though maybe 'EastEnders baby swap' instead of Kat and Ronnie's, or 'EastEnders baby swap storyline'. We could always ask for more opinions at WP:TV or WP:SOAPS once it's done.
 * I might have already said this at WP:EE, but the easiest way forward would probably be to come up with a strong structure first, and then slot the information into it where relevant. Off the top of my head, something like:
 * Plot (obviously!)
 * Background/conception (probably not much to add to what's already there)
 * Development, starting with a paragraph on everything general, eg. filming, writing, etc. Then maybe a paragraph on Sam Womack's resignation, and the rebuked reports that Jessie Wallace was off too. (I was thinking maybe a few sentences on all the others reported to be quitting in protest, but that might fit better under "Reception", in a paragraph about cast reactions, also including the comments from Babs, Neil McDermott etc.) After that, a paragraph about all the changes made along the way, eg. what's already in there about editing out shots pre-broadcast, plus ending the storyline early because of the outcry.
 * Reception, starting with "Ratings" per standard convention (maybe "Ratings and broadcast" just to verify exactly when the swap began and ended?). For reception proper, perhaps the charities/advocacy groups/Mumsnet stuff first, then critical commentary (if necessary, divided into discussion of the concept as a whole, those questioning whether they should have done it at all, etc, then those actually reviewing the performances and episodes proper), and finally a bit about cast response.
 * Reception will likely be a pain to compile, but as the development is largely over and done with, it's probably the simplest starting point. I think the easiest way is to think of it in terms of paragraphs first and then sections second, otherwise it'll just be totally overwhelming! Frickative  23:41, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Sounds a good plan. And I am considering putting a wikibonked notice on my talk page... – Anemone Projectors – 01:18, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh and I was going for just "Baby Swap", not "Kat and Ronnie's baby swap" or "EastEnders baby swap". If there was another baby swap article, I'd go for "Baby Swap (EastEnders)". – Anemone Projectors – 01:33, 15 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Digital Spy have published a full timeline of events from Richie's teaser to the reveal. This might be helpful in structuring the article, and also may have info that we have missed above (I have hundreds of Google Alerts still unchecked!) – Anemone Projectors – 10:07, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Wow, that's excellent! I gave up trying to keep track of the sources weeks ago, but DS coverage is so thorough in general, any missing development stuff shouldn't be hard to pin down. Once it's all over, I'll sweep the broadsheets and middle market press for any reception we missed, too. "Baby Swap" sounds fine. I wasn't sure at first, because it could be a general term and DAB page, but obviously that would be with the lower-case 's', doy. If it's okay with you, I might try writing one of the paragraphs that are unlikely to change between now and the end of the storyline - maybe the cast reaction bit? Frickative  15:21, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Go for it :-) By the way, nothing else seems to use "baby swap" anywhere in its title, and nothing links to either baby swap or Baby Swap. – Anemone Projectors – 16:43, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I just realised, we'll get to mention Poppy Meadow! Yay! – Anemone Projectors – 20:14, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Yay, she was hilarious! :D Btw, when I wrote the "Ratings" section earlier, I took out the line: "According to overnight figures, 10.6 million people watched the 3 January 2011 episode, in which Kat claims the dead baby is not her son and Ronnie struggles to bond with Tommy.[14]" ...I didn't realise until after the fact that it was the highest rated episode in a year =/! The AOL source attesting to the "highest rated" bit was based on overnights, and wrongly attributed the accomplishment to the following episode, so I went for a vaguer "In the week following the swap [...] Viewership peaked at 11.42 million." Just in case you wondered where the sentence went :) Frickative  21:23, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I hadn't noticed :) – Anemone Projectors – 21:53, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Regarding the title, I think it's now clear that the storyline is not named, as the BSA nomination is under the title "Ronnie swaps her baby for Kat's". So there's that or "baby swap". Or a descriptive title. – Anemone Projectors – 10:48, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll probably go with "EastEnders' baby swap storyline". – Anemone Projectors – 18:59, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
 * However, the TV Choice Awards have also called it "Ronnie swaps her baby for Kat's", so I might just call it that and put "also known as 'baby swap'" or something. – Anemone Projectors – 12:37, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Where can we put stuff about Womack (and others?) discussing Ronnie's (and others'?) motives and how they're feeling, etc? – Anemone Projectors – 17:26, 12 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Ack, sorry I've left you replying to yourself, I must have kept missing it on my watchlist. Good call re: using the award title. Wrt motives and feelings, maybe a general characterisation paragraph or two near the top of "Development", if/when it exists? Frickative  10:53, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Could do. I had similar stuff for QVFW that on motives and feelings that I never included because I didn't know where to put it. But there was stuff about Janine getting married, which may not have been that important anyway. – Anemone Projectors – 13:45, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

This is ready...
I think this article is ready and should be published. Bruno Russell (talk) 19:20, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
 * No it's far from ready. It's barely even started. Just look at the list of unused references above - and then think of all the ones that are out there that haven't been listed. You can see from looking at the draft that it's not complete, especially the reception. This article could probably more than quadruple in length before it's finished. – Anemone Projectors – 15:38, 2 October 2013 (UTC)