User talk:Ansell/Archive 9

Hi Ansell,

I'm not sure where we left off with the verification thing. My mother included references in her material and she is going to get me some copies of things she has kept. Is there a way I can securely get you my email address to make it easier to work this?


 * You can use the "Email this user" button to send me information securely. Sorry about archiving your message again. I figured that conversation was kind of over as it was a while since your last message. Ans e ll  22:18, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't see the "Email this user" button? Do I have to have an account or am I just not looking in the right place?


 * Yes, You must register an account, and I think you must also provide your own email address. Also, the verification should not just be provided to me, it should be provided so that any editor can find the evidence if need be, without your express intervention. Ans e ll  03:59, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Cricket World Cup
Hi, I saw that you made many constructive edits to the article. I have just one query. You changed the phrase premier one-day cricket championship to premier championship of cricket and It is a one-day tournament. I know the majority of cricket fans would agree with this but the traditionals who believe Test cricket is a better form may say for example that The Ashes is the most important international tournament. Many non-followers earlier on are now into cricket because of the 2005 series and not the 2003 World Cup. I just think it is too subjective to say it is the premier cricket competition. GizzaChat  &#169; 05:19, 7 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I think you are mistaken. I will check the diffs, but I am pretty sure I actually changed it back after someone made the change you refer to. I completely agree with your arguments though. Ans e ll  05:23, 7 December 2006 (UTC)


 * My edit and Thugchildz edit. Ans e ll  05:28, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Oops sorry about that. Keep up the good work! GizzaChat  &#169; 05:59, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Admin coaching, etc.
Are you ready to get started?

The waiting time over at Admin coaching is long (some people have been waiting in line since July). I'm an admin coach with the project, and for my students I set up a group discussion page so that we could all learn from each other. The scope of this concept has expanded into the Virtual classroom, which is an open forum for the teaching and learning of advanced Wikipedia skills.

Anyone and everyone is welcome to participate, as a student, as a coach, or both. Every week or two a new major topic of discussion or classroom assignment is introduced, usually with a guest writer who presents his or her expertise on the current subject and who remains on hand to answer questions. Everyone is encouraged to participate in the discussions, such as sharing your expertise, asking and answering questions, etc.

The current topic of discussion is vandalism, and our guest writer is Budgiekiller.

All discussions are open-ended, so all previous discussion topics and classroom assignments are still there for viewing and further participation. There are also sections for posting miscellaneous topics and questions, requesting coaching assistance, etc.

In addition to inviting those who would like to learn, I routinely invite experts from all over Wikipedia to come and contribute for the benefit of all. The VC is rapidly turning into a clearing house of the best resources, methods, and techniques known for working on Wikipedia.

You are cordially invited to participate.

Here's an announcement box which you can place on your userpage or at the top of your talk page for keeping up to date with classroom assignments.

I hope to see you there. Sincerely,   Th e Tr ans hu man ist    08:06, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Getting you an admin coach
Hi Ansell. Would you still like an admin coach? If so I'll try to match you up with one soon. Cheers, Fang Aili talk 21:56, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
 * You're matched with User:Husond. Contact him to get started! Cheers, Fang Aili talk 16:33, 17 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Hello Ansell. Fang Aili matched me with you under the Admin coaching program. My usual areas of intervention are countervandalism, XfD, speedy deletion and page protection. Please feel free to request a review of your contributions to this areas, as well as any advice you think you might need. Best regards -- Hús  ö  nd  20:11, 17 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I would like a review of my actions. I will create a page at User talk:Ansell/Admin coaching for a shortlist of my actions in the admin type areas as I go. Ans e ll  09:29, 18 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi Ansell. Are you still interested in coaching? Just consider this a little friendly prodding. :) --Fang Aili talk 22:06, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Business Process Management
Hi Ansell

Re Human Interaction Management - you just removed the external link.

I added the external link this morning in response to the recent (and highly debated) deletion of a separate page on the topic of HIM. The administrator's decision as you will see was to add material on HIM to the BPM page, of no more than 20% in total page size. All I did was add the external link (which you immediately removed). But actually it might be more sensible not only to put back the external link, but also to add a new section to the BPM page, entitled "Human Interaction Management". Here is some text you could use:

Human Interaction Management (HIM) describes a set of principles and patterns for structuring, supporting and controlling human work practices. Current mainstream techniques and tools for work support, whether categorized as Workflow or as Business Process Management (BPM), deal only with "mechanistic" business processes. In such business processes, human involvement is limited to key data entry and decision points. Workflow/BPM techniques and tools deal with only the externally-observable aspects of work - tasks, that are visible from outside. HIM extends this to include support for "human-driven" processes focused on human creativity and collaboration. To achieve this, HIM deals not only with tasks, but also with those aspects of work visible from inside - information, interaction and innovation. In HIM, a business process requiring human knowledge, judgement and experience is divided into Roles, which are then assigned to the appropriate members of an organization via a Human Interaction Management System (HIMS). A HIMS is also used to manage the work and integrate it with organizational strategy/tactics, via separation into "levels of control". The main focus of HIM is currently on the integration of organizational objectives with human work practices, in order to implement strategy/tactics and fulfil requirements for compliance. However, HIM has application beyond the improvement of organizational efficiency, since it provides a rich set of patterns for structuring and managing collaborative work that are also finding application in spheres such as social/political negotiation, law enforcement and healthcare.

Keith.harrison-broninski 10:44, 18 December 2006 (UTC)


 * It would be great if you could provide multiple sources which were focused directly on the topic in question. These sources would preferably not be any which may bring a conflict of interest on yourself. if you can find major peer-reviewed BPM journals who have published material related to this, as opposed to the more free market style "white paper" system which is so popular with BPM'ers and IT people in general.
 * It is a shame I missed that discussion, as I would have contributed there myself. I still disagree that the links should be in the external links section as they are irrelevant to the major focus of the page, with HIM being only a neologism so far. The 20% quote was not prescriptive, merely being a guide. Ans e ll  11:06, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Ansell - You can find multiple independent sources here, including three books with a focus on HIM (only one of which is by me). There is also a list of peer-reviewed conference papers here - these were all accepted by the IEEE for their annual SMC conference.

The page as it stands doesn't make sense with reference to HIM :-( In particular, it refers to "an emerging class of BPM software known as the human interaction management".  This should be "an emerging class of BPM software known as the Human Interaction Management System", with capitals and the word "System" following.

Finally, re the neologism slur, read up on this stuff (which none of the objecters in the deletion debate seemed to have done) and you will see that HIM is a relatively new label for ideas some of which go back to the 1980s or even earlier - RADs in particular were common in management practice throughout the 1990s. HIM is taught on MBA and CS courses worldwide, is a popular choice for research projects, and there are over 100 companies that I personally know of who are using the ideas in the workplace. I simply cannot understand why some wikipedians seem so desperate to exclude it. If I didn't have such faith in the open source community process I would have walked away from wikipedia by now. Keith.harrison-broninski 08:02, 20 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Please do not make personal attacks. I was not referring to neologism in a derogatory manner, and you indeed agree that the term is actually a new term. We are not desperate to exclude things, we just need to stay neutral, especially where business issues are concerned. There is a large degree of concern over wikipedia being used for advertising by companies, not least of which are BPM vendors.
 * If you feel you can avoid a conflict of interest while keeping your contributions neutral and sourced you are welcome to contribute yourself. Ans e ll  08:24, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

These are not personal attacks, Ansell - just an expression of frustration and some disbelief. Working in the field, like the other people who argued for the retention of the HIM page, I know how many people need information on this subject, and how badly. Anyway, I'll edit the BPM page as you suggest. Keith.harrison-broninski 19:01, 20 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia is not the place for primary information. People should not come to wikipedia because they cannot find information in other places. This is the basis of our No original research policy. Wikipedia editors should not be crusaders for truth, or anything else for that matter. Just plain neutral compilers of outside information. Ans e ll  06:04, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

CricketWatch or WikiProject Cricket
Hey, dunno whether you still care about this question, but I've replied anyway. Sam Vimes | Address me 15:19, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

hi
As you were a participant in this discussion you may want to see the new avatar of the discussion. Baka man  16:07, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Palm Island, Queensland ACOTF
Hi Ansell, this article to which you have contributed significantly has become the Collaboration of the Fortnight, it would be great to hear any thoughts you have about how we can improve the article :) (to do list). Thanks, WikiTownsvillian 06:25, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Re. Coaching...
No problem. Thanks for telling me. Regards, Hús  ö  nd  14:56, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Migrate user subpage to mainspace?
Hi Ansell,

I noticed some months ago your page under development User:Ansell/South Pacific Division of Seventh-day Adventists and would like to invite you to migrate it to the main userspace. I noticed that there was a "successful" AfD discussion on some version of the page once, but surely this will not happen again. Cheers, Colin MacLaurin 16:57, 31 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I do not mind if you clean it up a bit and bring it to a Deletion review. I know the page is significantly different this time, but its the official way if there has been a successful AfD. I havn't put much effort into compiling the resources that I found after the original AfD (which I missed for some reason). Ans e ll  08:51, 2 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Particularly, could you find an official founding date and reference before taking the page to review. Ans e ll  08:55, 2 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I have posted instructions on the talk page of WP:SDA. Colin MacLaurin 01:29, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Help
I am posting this at a couple other pages. I have to be careful and not break the WP:3RR on Seventh-day Adventist Church‎ because of some biased edits. I would like to ask a few of you to help monitor it. I've basically been following protocol of other pages I edit. The editors will not allow links unless they lend value to the article and I am sticking to this with the Adventist article as well. There is a current discussion, however two editors feel compelled to usurp the consensus and stick in their edits. If you wish to weigh in and keep control, I welcome it. I must step back as I wish to not break the 3RR rule. Thanks--Maniwar (talk) 03:26, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Deleting Categories of Jewish Athletes
Hi. I believe this is related to an issue that has interested you in the past. At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion#Category:Jewish_fencers some people are suggesting that Jewish athletes, beginning with Jewish Fencers, should be deleted. I do not think that is the correct approach, or consistent with wiki policy, and thought that others might want to weigh in on the discussion. Tx. --Epeefleche 13:39, 8 February 2007 (UTC)--Epeefleche 13:39, 8 February 2007 (UTC)--Epeefleche 23:49, 7 February 2007 (UTC)