User talk:Antaeus Feldspar/Archive 04

Please desist
Antenaeus, you took such a good deal of time to polish your response that you failed to address the issue at hand. The matter is being handled by David. Please consider it closed, as the deletion of our message to you ought to have suggested. Your "private&quot;;;; messages, as we stated prior, post to an entire network. Please desist. Thank you. -- unsigned message by 24.126.173.124


 * I don't know where you got the idea that David is the authority and that people like Uncle G. -- and like myself, when I don't tell you what you want to hear -- are merely "volunteers" to be arrogantly waved away. You simply cannot post articles about yourself on Wikipedia -- violating Wikipedia policy, as it has been explained -- and then instruct people the matter is "closed" to them.  That is not your prerogative to determine, and neither is it David's.  If you imagined that Wikipedia was a place where you would be free to advertise yourself to your heart's content and no one else would be allowed to say anything about it, then you are very incorrect; if you think that you can say things on Wikipedia when you think they'll get you what you want and then delete them without trace when it ceases to be convenient, you are again mistaken.  Perhaps you should re-think your behavior in light of these realities. -- Antaeus Feldspar 01:41, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Please desist
I think perhaps you ought to consider your behavior in light of this. -Rick


 * I think perhaps you, all of you, Jeanne-Marie, and "Shelly" who is using the IP address 24.126.173.124 at 21:47 to announce that it's her last posting and "Rick" who is suddenly using the same IP address at 21:56, nine minutes later, to continue the same posting pattern, should try growing up. -- Antaeus Feldspar 02:02, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Please desist
I think you should try growing up. -Rick


 * Thanks for your opinion. When I come to your place and start pretending that I know the way things are done there so much better than you and patronize you, then your correction will be well-deserved.  In the meantime, in the real world, you may (or may not) be multiple people behind that IP address but only one of you seems even close to realizing that you can't just waltz onto Wikipedia and take what you want (publicity and promotion) and thumb your nose at the way we do things around here. -- Antaeus Feldspar 02:26, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)

ISP Sharing
Isn't he aware of how many people can share a single network? --Irene

Bell inequalities vfd
Thanks for your input. I added a reply to Caroline Thompson's comments. Please have a look and also carefully look at the talk page of that Bell's theorem article. CSTAR 14:25, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Aphrodite
Well, look at it like this - if is wasnt for people like me who create articles, people like you wouldnt have anything to do, would they? As for reintroducing errors, as I created it in the first place and was still working on it, then I consider it gives me artistic licence to make typos. As for criticising my grammar...........languages evolve by distorting grammer, just go with the flow dude.

Lincolnshire Poacher

PS. I just read something on your user page:

'there is a place on Wikipedia for descriptions for television shows and video games and webcomics, but how much detail these things actually deserve is proportional to how much influence they have actually had on the real world.'

Wow, thats arrogant beyond belief!!! Who are you to judge how influential any particualr thing has been on any particular societal group? Are you an expert on EVERY cultural and Social grouping on the planet? I think not!! If so, I was born in 1954 and live in Lincolnshire, UK, so tell me what was influential to me, if your an expert? I think if someone wants an article on some obscure comic that influenced him so much he remembered it from childhood, and you've never heard of it, then that hardly gives you a valid reason to oppose it.

I read the bits above about this, and you either have an unbiassed encyclopedia that encompasses all knowledge, of you censor it to some arbitrary ruleset defined by some personal subjective worldview. Personally, I prefer the former.....who are you to censor anyone else?

I think you need to reevaluate your own importance to the planet, dude............


 * Thank you for your opinion. I'll give it the appropriate amount of consideration, based on your idea that people who create articles are some separate, superior class to people who actually work on articles that they didn't create, working on more than just the bits that are fun, and that merely creating an article on Wikipedia gives you "artistic license" to undo the work of others.  I'm sure you're just the person to tell me about who is arrogant. -- Antaeus Feldspar 18:35, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * By the way, if you don't think you can bear to read about my own philosophies, then you might not want to read that section of my user page, the one marked "Philosophies". Just a hint, to such a clever lad as yourself. -- Antaeus Feldspar 04:59, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Listign of purported hate groups
I understand that type of issue. It seems like the hate groups should all be in the list of purported hate groups, rather than the hate groups article itself. As it was, I only dropped one - the empty category of anti-cult groups. If it's important to have that or other unsourced hate groups then we could create a subsection for alleged hate groups that do not appear on any source list. Let me take another look at it after dinner and see if there's a way to bridge the gap. Cheers, -Willmcw 02:16, Mar 5, 2005 (UTC)

PS- I just checked the history of the Hate group article and see that, indeed, the listings were merged. Nonetheless, every single one that was included was supportable by citations from the ADL or SPLC. So although I changed the criteria, that didn't make any difference (except for the new, empty section "anti-cult"). So, I don't see an actual problem- but maybe I missed it. FYI, Rick Ross and the old AFF list "controversial groups" (not cults), which include hate groups and NRMs. So if we need to broaden the scope of sources, we should be able to find a citation to support almost any group's inclusion. We've got open arms for hate groups! It's a big tent. Cheers, -Willmcw 06:01, Mar 5, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for the correction on the Efuru stub. Clearly I need to not edit late at night. The lesbian 06:44, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * You're quite welcome! I don't mind doing spelling and grammar edits when I see them -- well, as long as the next person to edit doesn't erase them because he can't be bothered to edit an edit conflict...  9_9  -- Antaeus Feldspar 16:01, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Best wishes
Best wishes for a speedy recovery. Fighting for NPOV is not as fun without you around... :) --Zappaz 19:38, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * Thanks. -- Antaeus Feldspar 19:42, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Hey
Can you allow me to blank my user page? I threw all that stuff up on there just to see if it would work...I didn't think it would be attacked the way it was. I'd like to keep it blank from now on. Thanks. Kaneda 07:08, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * The reason I restore pages that are blanked during VfD (the reason the VfD notice itself tells you not to blank the page) is so those who go to check whether the content merits deletion will see the content that everyone else voted on. Since the VfD looks certain to pass anyways, I don't know that it makes a lot of difference. -- Antaeus Feldspar 15:19, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Belated thanks.
For pointing out that my scratch page was appearing in a category. Don't know how I missed this. Rich Farmbrough 14:06, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)

How to Heal Traumas
Thank you for your edits. I feel the book and hopefully the article will help a lot of people.--Jondel 00:05, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * You're welcome! I'm glad I could help out... -- Antaeus Feldspar 00:07, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Umm,as suggested by Plek and GeorgeS, I'm going to propose renaming to Waking the Tiger, removing redirects, create See-also links from articles of Fear, Trauma, etc. This fulfils my purposes. Sorry for your trouble. I may copy the whole thing or a complete write up. I don't feel the need to push for this article if the renaming or write up of Waking The Tiger is well done. What do you think?--Jondel 01:05, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Waking the Tiger
Hi Anteus. I've done renamed and tried to rewrite as best as I could. Now I'm asking for your help if you are interested. The Waking The Tiger btw has a new peer review request. The VFD has transferred to Waking the Tiger.--Jondel 05:48, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Anteus, you have a gift with words (reffering to assuming bad faith), nurture it!--Jondel 02:14, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

The article was restored! Open the champagne! Thanks for your help.!--Jondel 07:51, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * Congrats! -- Antaeus Feldspar 11:49, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Walker, Texas Ranger lever
Hey thanks for merging my Walker, Texas Ranger lever article to the Conan page. I didn't know it was listed on the Conan article and it makes more sense to be on that.

--Jedihobbit 16:30, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * No problem! I tend to be a mergist and so "part of a larger article" tends to occur to me as where information may belong -- or may already be, as was the case here. -- Antaeus Feldspar 16:41, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Rex
I have no problem with your having edited User:JamesMLane/Rexlog. It's still a draft and I'm glad to get anyone's input. (I'm especially glad to see you're fairly active. I hope that means good news about your health.)  Rex has also been stalking me, voting on a couple CfD's after I did. It's kind of funny that he stalks other people, given that he complained loudly when he thought others were tracking his edits. Once you're finished admiring the irony, though, is it ArbCom material? It's not a violation of any policy that I know of. I'm inclined to leave it out of a formal RfAr. I'd be glad to get your thoughts on the subject, though. JamesMLane 17:03, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * Well, if he takes it to the level that he did before, before his "leaving forever", it may rise to the level where it can be presented to the ArbCom as evidence of harassment. At the current time, though, I agree that it's best left out of a formal RfAr. -- Antaeus Feldspar 17:47, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * I've filed the RfAr. Thanks for your help in developing it. JamesMLane 07:07, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Links to 9/11 open questions
Deleting or redirecting links to a page being voted on for deletion is sabotaging the election process. As such it could be argued to be vandalism of the Wiki election process. If you see the Wiki deletion policy, it states that links to an article can be deleted and redirected to more suitable links after the article is deleted. I doubt anyone would condone doing this while the election is in progress. Please stop.


 * I see the Wikipedia deletion policy and I see no such statement as you claim there to be, stating that redirects to an article must not be changed while the article is in VfD. Even if 9/11 open questions were to be kept it would be absurd to redirect 9/11/01 to that article rather than to September 11, 2001 attacks.  It's not as if anyone would be searching on 9/11/01 to try and find your article  -- let alone that they would type in 9/11, an existing redirect which pointed to September 11, 2001 attacks, trying to get your own article, which you changed the redirect to.


 * Are you seriously suggesting that if I created an article called al-Qaeda is an awesome musical group and created multiple new redirects to it under every variant spelling that I could think of and changed redirects currently pointing to al-Qaeda to my bogus article -- are you seriously suggesting that from the moment my article was put on VfD, that no one would "condone" changing those redirects to a non-bogus target? because it might "sabotage" the VfD process? The suggestion is ludicrous and will be ignored accordingly. -- Antaeus Feldspar 23:18, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)

9/11
You edit summary read -''rv; please be honest and mark reverts as such in your edit summaries. And if "9/11" is too ambiguous, what sense does it make to redirect to "11/9"???)''
 * What do you mean be honest? How am I being dishonest by stating the reason why I am reverting this page?
 * What sense does it make to redirect to "11/9"? - 11/9 is a disambiguation page which lists the meanings of 9/11 and 11/9. I could duplicate this page in its entirety but why not use a redirect? I will duplicate the page to satisfy your requirements the next time.
 * A very long time ago, (in 2002 I think), this page along with pages like 10/12, 10/3 etc.. were created en masse. It was decided to delete all of them because while 9/11 means September 11 to Americans, for everybody else it means 9th of November.
 * Take a look at 9-11 - that is a disambiguatrion page. Why should this be any different? Jooler 09:00, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * I note your failure to address the issues raised here and on the relevant talk pages. Jooler 12:31, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * Yes; absurd responses such as "It also means 9 shillings and 11 pence" convinced me very early on that talk was wasted; that I was dealing with someone doggedly determined to revert this redirect, not out of ignorance that for every citizen of the United States "9/11" means "the attacks of September 11, 2001", but because that is an indelible association for Americans, and Americans need to be put in their place. -- Antaeus Feldspar 23:41, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * There is nothing "absurd" about 9/11 meaning nine shillings and eleven pence. This is how the value of pre-decimal British coinage was written. Perhaps you recall the Mad Hatter's hat from Alice in Wonderland where a ticket with the price of the hat at "10/6" remained tucked into the band - see . The point of saying that was to illustrate that "9/11" can mean a whole host of things other than the date, expressed in a particularly parochial format, of a particularly nasty incident. Pointing out that people from outside of the USA do not spell certain words the way they do; or call certain objects by another name; or do not believe in the same values, or wexpress dates in a different format is not an attempt to "put Americans in their place". Jooler 08:00, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * If I were to insist that Boxing Day be a disambiguation page, because in addition to being a national holiday for millions of people, it could be used by some people to refer to a particular day on which some particularly anticipated boxing match is scheduled to happen, it would be clearly ridiculous, because the national holiday is by far the more prominent and encyclopedic meaning. It is true that not everyone in the entire world calls the events of September 11, 2001 "9/11".  It is also true that if you say to any mentally competent American adult "9/11" they will understand immediately that you are talking about the attacks of September 11, 2001 and their aftermath.  In contrast, please show me the existing article that Wikipedia has on the subject of "nine shillings and eleven pence".  Or an article for any money amount expressed in shillings and pence.  Or an article for any specific money amount specified in any coinage system.  You can't find it?  Good; now you know why I called your suggestion that 9/11 needs to be a disambiguation page because it could mean "nine shillings and eleven pence", which we do not and never will have an article on, absurd. -- Antaeus Feldspar 22:30, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * That would be boxing day not Boxing Day. In any case we are talking about a redirect, so if you want to "fix" the redirect at "boxing day" go ahead. For the vast majority of the world that particular sequence of characters means 9th of September, but I am not suggesting that the page should redirect to that date. It should be a disambiguation page. I was not in anyway suggesting that we should have an article on the specific sum of money 9 shillings and 11 pence, merely that that particular form of characters can be used to express things other than the date. However there are many disambiguation pages which list meanings that do not require theer own article. See Jack Jooler 23:09, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Vaccines
Antaeus, your fair-minded dedication to NPOV might be put to good use on the vaccine article, which could use a good NPOVing by someone who is more of a stickler for details. Interested? Ombudsman 01:42, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * I'll look it over and see what I can do. Thank you for the compliment. -- Antaeus Feldspar 02:23, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Thnks. In striving for NPOV, a straight line may not be viable, much less optimal.  The ADHD article needed a good keelhauling, for reasons such as those eloquently expressed by *Kat*.  NPOV is in the eye of the beholder; perhaps perusal of the links at Keirsey will help instill an understanding of others and their perspectives on NPOV and ADHD. Ombudsman 05:00, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

New Freedom Commission on Mental Health & TMAP
(consolidation of Antaeus' thread, where a compliment on his differing reactions to two articles inexplicably turned to his analysis of two different "situations") copied from User talk:ClockworkSoul Would you mind taking a look at New Freedom Commission on Mental Health from a NPOV-maintenance perspective? It seems to contain a lot of the material that was cut from Texas Medication Algorithm Project, which needed to be NPOV'ed. -- Antaeus Feldspar 22:53, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * It is impressive to find a Wikipedian's adaption toward a consensus-driven mode, Antaeus, and your restraint this time around is admirable. Both articles were written as a starting point, obviously, and your modifications, rather than simple culling, are very much welcome. Ombudsman 07:33, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)

''copied from User talk:Ombudsman
 * Well, I believe that by "adaption" you must mean the different reactions I had to two different situations. In all honesty I believe you must look at the differences between the two situations:  one was an article that had been worked on by just one editor, and no one reasonably expects even the most fair-minded editor to produce something fully NPOV by themselves.  The other, however, while under the edit summary "cleanup of non-neutral bias", introduced copious use of scare quotes around words such as 'improvements' and 'authoritative' and 'problem', and bolding around phrases such as "almost all of the latest studies have been sponsored by drug companies" and "rates of diagnosis vary widely even within the U.S.  In some school districts as many as 60% of all children have been diagnosed with ADHD".  Even accepting your explanation that you only meant to put these phrases in italics, and the bolding is accidental, it leaves the question of why these phrases needed to be italicized at all.  What has not even been touched on yet is how this "cleanup of non-neutral bias" came to include insertion of so many statements either implying or directly stating malfeasance on the part of "the industry", as in changing "These questions cannot be answered unless one knows about the effects of these fatty acids on the dopamine system." to "These questions cannot be answered unless one knows about the effects of these fatty acids on the dopamine system, and the economic realities regarding who is funding studies attempting to debunk the correlation."  [italics mine] and "The process of obtaining referals for such assessments is being pushed vigorously by the pharmaceutical industry, in the guise of the President's New Freedom Commission on Mental Health".  Ombudsman, I am willing to assume good faith of your intention to work for NPOV, but I am afraid that that edit, especially under that edit summary, presents a lot of evidence to make me wonder if you have really thought through what it entails. -- Antaeus Feldspar 03:23, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * btw, the two starting points, sorry it wasn't specified, were meant to reference the differing treatments of TMAP and New Freedom Commission on Mental Health. Ombudsman 05:38, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * As I stated at your talk page, I admire your dedication to NPOV while wondering if you truly understand what it is. I don't know what "a straight line may not be viable, much less optimal" is supposed to mean; what I do know is that a great many editors think that when they have the article in a state where their POV is fully and sympathetically expressed, and everyone else's POV is grudgingly given an airing followed immediately by disclaimers that one would be a fool to believe such a thing, that this is NPOV because every POV is thereby represented in some form. -- Antaeus Feldspar 12:37, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Compliments & Complements
Just for the record, Antaeus, your hard work here at Wikipedia is valuable, though everyone errs at times. The application of your strengths no doubt provides discipline to complement the Kindness Campaign. The fact that you aggressively have defended an anonymous poster, despite evidence of mischief, including some you may have missed, shows just how kind you can be. It is hoped that you will, in general, treat extablished contributors with equal deference. You are, of course, a staunch defender of your point of view on NPOV and merging, and it is hoped you will tolerate differing perspectives on such matters, and also defend those whose views do not coincide with your own. It would be appreciated if you might contribute more to articles where you see deficits, rather than simply expressing your point of view about the edits of others.

Cheers on some of your recent spelling and gramming edits. I swear, since my word processor stopped working my spelling has gotten atrocious.D1Puck1T 17:33, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

RE Evangelion
The Lilith = 2nd angel is indeed Fannon, as is Touji's younder sister and Kensuke's hakcer status. Why did you remove everything? NovaSatori


 * Some of the items you listed may indeed be fanon. Others, however, have been confirmed by Gainax as official canon in sources such as the Red Cross Book.  Others are not fanon; they're just something that appeared in someone's fanfic.  In addition to these problems, when you're writing in an article, it's not a good idea to include notes to other editors such as "(someone check me on this one, because the wikipedia article seems to disagree)" -- the talk pages are how you should communicate with other editors, as that's why they exist.  For the articles, we should be aiming for a professional tone.  These are the reasons that led me to revert to the previous version. -- Antaeus Feldspar 22:56, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I was under the impression that Fanon adopted into canon was still considered fanon. In any case Touji's younger sister is definately fanon. NovaSatori


 * You might want to go back and check the definition of fanon a bit more carefully. Fanon is that which is believed by significant numbers of fans or treated by large numbers of fans as if it was canon, although it is not.  And as previous discussions have clarified, there's a difference between "it appeared in a fanfic" and "it's fanon". -- Antaeus Feldspar 11:42, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Removal of VfD notice by article's author
I have again removed it. Take it to WP:RFAr. ==SV 01:55, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

AMA_Requests_for_Assistance-==SV

Edit summary
Hello. Please remember to always provide an edit summary. Thanks and happy edits. Hyacinth 01:13, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Corax
I'll thank you not to censor my posts. I'll take my chances with the personal attacks policy. Adam 07:26, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * Don't thank me for something I don't plan to do. If you are going to throw libellous and baseless accusations of pedophilia I will feel free to remove them and I am not the only one who takes that policy on personal attacks. -- Antaeus Feldspar 11:31, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Citizens Commission on Human Rights
The anonymous user:192.104.181.227/user:192.104.181.229 does not seem to be willing to discuss his or her edits, and instead is just reverting without explanation. I've left a note on his talk page, a note in the article talk page, and several notes in edit summaries. I am not generally interested in pursuing minor violations, but do you think a 3RR time-out would bring this editor to the talk page? Cheers, -Willmcw 21:55, Apr 12, 2005 (UTC)
 * FYI, received a response at User_talk:192.104.181.227. -Willmcw 22:48, Apr 12, 2005 (UTC)
 * Given the tenor of that response, I think a 3RR time-out might be highly salubrious. -- Antaeus Feldspar 00:18, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Probably so, but since the last edit was more of an evolution than a revert, perhaps it is not needed. In fact, the article may have achieved a rough balance for the time being. Thanks for being on top of it. Cheers, -Willmcw 08:51, Apr 13, 2005 (UTC)

Yes, it was an attack
You wrote on m discussion page that you didn't mean it as a threat about the 3RR thing. If that were true, explain why you were intrested in counting up multiple revisions because the IPs were similar.

"I'm tempted to go back and see how many reverts 227/9 racked up in 24 hours... -- Antaeus Feldspar 02:14, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)"


 * Because you'd be surprised how many people are warned about the 3RR and violate it anyways -- thinking that "my reverts are 'good' reverts because I'm reverting to the good version of the article; his reverts are 'bad' reverts because he's reverting to the bad version of the article" has any relevance to the way the 3RR operates. Someone who responds to a heads-up about the 3RR with  irrelevant blather about "my reverts were good; yours were bad" and "your reverts are worse because they're blind/you didn't repeat your reasons" is missing the point, and this is an excellent predictor of who's going to violate it again even after warnings.  And someone who racks up almost enough reverts for two people (now that we know you and 229 are the same, unless you make a habit of answering messages to other people on other people's talk pages) is also quite likely to keep violating the 3RR even after being warned.


 * A threat would be "If you keep doing something I don't like, then I will inflict some consequence." My warning is "If you keep doing something prohibited by the rules of Wikipedia, then you may face consequences inflicted by Wikipedia."  You may not see the distinction, but that says more about what you choose not to see than about the distinction not being there. -- Antaeus Feldspar 11:48, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

SamuraiClinton
I have to tell you, I'm getting rather upset with this individual's behavior. Case in point: Candy Girl. I've voted to delete this on general principle. In other words, blow this thing out of the edit history and if another editor wants to write an article - a real article - on the Frankie Valli song, they can start fresh. Better we have a red link IMO. - Lucky 6.9 23:03, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Mark Geier
I see you have Mark Geier watchlisted. :) I'm going to take some stabs at un-POV-ing it, and it's good to know someone else with an outside perspective is sanity checking me. --TenOfAllTrades | Talk 01:51, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)