User talk:Antelan/Archives/2008/April

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Oops
Didn't realize it was a joke : ) -- Nealparr  (talk to me) 03:18, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, there was some sort of a phenomenon going on inside of my brain, but it wasn't externally funny. Antelan talk  03:31, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Not like my ultra-geeky WWKS? t-shirt idea, huh? : ) -- Nealparr  (talk to me) 03:44, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Haha, well the only problem with that approach would be a reduction in this. Antelan talk  04:59, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
 * If it needs mo' drama, they've got the wrong furry creature. They need this guy. -- Nealparr  (talk to me) 05:50, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Most recent Mannatech editor
"Shaunholmberg (Talk | contribs) (I am in the process of reformating the entire page. The final revision will have the old content and the new content includes. I am mearly reorganizing where it all is. Nothing will be left out)" Yeah, right: http://www.mannapages.com/sholmberg and http://www.myspace.com/ruach_hakodesh and http://www.thechurchboard.com/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=70&sid=d5a83706c4a97ec9d4161c471c429cf1

Jim Dunning | talk  02:20, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh. My. Antelan talk  02:27, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

If he throws another Censor tag on another discussion page, I'm going to scream. Does he think we're censoring him? Hell, I think we let him prattle on for pages. Argh!!!!!!!!!! But at least he's not a racist. Orange Marlin Talk• Contributions 00:47, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
 * What's not to love about racism? Antelan talk  00:59, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Prattle? Bryan Hopping  T  02:00, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Per the OED, prattle, v, 1. trans. To utter in an idle, garrulous, or childish manner; to tell (something) as gossip; to speak (a language, words, etc.,) in a foolish, inconsequential, or incomprehensible way. Orange Marlin Talk• Contributions 23:01, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * He's back at Doctor of Medicine, pushing the allopathy POV.  Orange Marlin  Talk• Contributions 01:05, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
 * "As gossip"? Bryan Hopping T  01:05, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't gossip dude. Antelan has probably reverted 10-15 of your edits.  I'm at around 20.  He and I have a special bond about this.  Two peas in a pod.   Orange Marlin  Talk• Contributions 01:10, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

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Discussion of Allopathic Medicine
Hi Antelan,

I figured we could continue the discussion of Allopathic Medicine here as to get out of the "hornets nest" so to speak. Maybe a good start would be to see how/if the word is being used outside North America. I can bring a CAM perspective (mainly chiro and naturopathic as I have friends who attend ND school in Toronto). I'd also like to hear out why you think the term should/should not be used and why. CorticoSpinal (talk) 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, I think getting out of the hornets' nest is a good call. Well, I'll use some Google Trends again, this time comparing allopathic, osteopathic, naturopathic, and chiropractic. As you can see, "allopathic" is virtually unused, despite it being a word ostensibly representing the major form of medicine in practice today. Any other good metrics that you can think of besides Google Trends? Antelan talk  01:45, 11 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Disregard my comments on allopathic medicine talk and you can discuss it here as it would be more appropriate, IMO. I'm not aware of any other metrics besides google trends... So, just so I'm brought up to speed (and I've quickly saw the controversy surrounding the use of the term and it's inclusion in other articles) is your position that the word not be used at all, favour its use with a qualifier (still considered perjorative by GPs) or feel that it's an undue weight issue?  Because, I want to be forthright, I have used the term at chiropractic talk, as a synonym for mainstream/conventional med, and have seen it used enough in the literature (indexed stuff at PubMed) to differentiate it from osteopathic and CAM.  I also have an exclusively North American perspective on this and he no clue about Australasia and Europe which is important in its own right as well to get the global perspective. CorticoSpinal (talk) 04:04, 11 April 2008 (UTC)


 * OK, well I responded to your question at that talk page briefly just before I got this. It's probably pretty tangential (unless someone can find a founding philosophy), which will let us focus our talk over here. I'll reply to this in a minute... Antelan talk  04:07, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
 * In reply: I don't personally care about benign usage of the word on talk pages, but I am concerned that we are driving, rather than reflecting, real-world usage of the word in the actual articles. Ignoring the usage of the term among the general population, which our only metrics show to be negligible, I still think the term "allopathic" has problems. (1) The term is anachronistic when describing modern medicine. Sure, it worked for describing the heroic medicine of Hahnemann's time, but it is historically inaccurate to use it now. I am more 'liberal' than some of my colleagues in that I will agree, for sake of argument, that drugs such as loperamide could be said to work by an "allopathic principle" (countering diarrhea by slowing gut motility). However, antibiotics certainly don't work by an "allopathic" principle, a "homeopathic principle", or any other sort of principle. Another example: Hypertension is a risk factor for aneurysmal subarachnoid hemorrhage. Treatment for subarachnoid hemorrhage, though, includes keeping the patient hypertensive. This certainly doesn't fit with an "allopathic" principle. (2) The term is considered offensive by many both in and outside of the US.
 * I think that the lack of general usage and the offensive perception of the term are the best reasons for using common terms ('medicine', 'mainstream medicine', 'modern medicine', 'physician', 'MD', etc) instead of uncommon ones ('allopathic medicine', 'allopathic physician') for describing modern medicine. I won't rehash the "Harvard Allopathic Medical School" arguments, but I think those are worth thinking about, too. Question for you - do you find the collective acronym "CAM" to be acceptable, and if not, what do you prefer? Antelan talk  04:29, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Doctor of Medicine
Hopping's back engaging in a edit war. I need to run, I hope you can help out. Orange Marlin Talk• Contributions 00:50, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Shoot, the timing is bad for me too. I just left town for the weekend and won't be back until Monday, so I don't know what I can do until then. If I can steal away and find a computer, I'll do so. Antelan talk  02:50, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I will stop by Doctor of Medicine and request that stuff be discussed thoroughly on Talk first. It might be time to bring this to dispute resolution as well as it seems like this has been occuring for some time.  I have an interest in seeing the MD article being as good as it can as I will be using it as a template to improve Doctor of Chiropractic in the future.  In fact, all doctor of... article should probably follow the MD template if there's already a suggested MEDMOS formatting and inclusion style.  Have a good weekend, Antelan!  CorticoSpinal (talk) 18:09, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks; hope you had a nice weekend yourself. Talk to you more soon. Antelan talk  06:44, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Warning
You have failed to get the joke. Failure to get the joke may lead to your being slapped with a trout, and repeated offenses could eventually result in your being set upon by a school of Chinook salmon. Additionally, a user who fails to appreciate irony, litotes, banter or other forms of wordplay may be considered a poopyhead. If necessary, pursue remedial training. Thank you. Raymond Arritt (talk) 18:01, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I am currently requesting block of User:Antelan for failure to abide by WP:CIV. Antelan talk  19:41, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

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Io io editor
Note this and this comment. Based on how it is received, I may start a post at AN/I. Figured you'd be interested. WLU (talk) 16:46, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Nope, looks like I'm going ahead. Will RFC/U instead, possibly tomorrow or Monday.  In the meantime, I'll be building a case here.  Feel free to add if you'd like, please separate into your own section though.  WLU (talk) 17:17, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

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Personal Attacks
Your recent edit here is a personal attack in that it misconstrues my edit as retribution. It breaks WP:CIVIL, WP:AGF and WP:NPA. Please refrain from making such attacks towards me. My warning was based on his involvement in a current edit war, which is an inappropriate use of TW. DigitalC (talk) 01:56, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * If you disagreed with his use of Twinkle, then why warn him about 3RR instead? You should lighten up on the alphabet soup in your first-posts to other users' talk pages, by the way. Antelan talk  02:08, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Is there another warning for being involved in an edit war? Users can be blocked for edit warring whether they have broken 3RR or not. I do not take personal attacks lightly. DigitalC (talk) 02:23, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * The first question you might want to ask yourself is, "Why am I using a template?" If you're talking with an established user, the template is probably unnecessary, and a personal note will almost always be received better. A templated warning for the wrong offense will almost certainly be received poorly. Antelan talk  02:27, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * While it is a 3RR Template, it does spell out that it appears that he is currently involved in an edit war, and that editors do not need to break 3RR to be blocked - so I'm not sure it is "a warning for the wrong offense"?. However, in the future I will take your advice and simply ask them to cease the edit war and refer to the talk page of the respective article. Thanks for your input and guidance - I am still learning the ins and outs of WP. DigitalC (talk) 02:59, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Digital C does the personal attack, and he accuses Antelan of doing the same. That's so laughable I wet myself. Oh, and editor whining about Twinkle should have their butts blocked. There are NO rules regarding the use of Twinkle unless there is some violation of Policies and guidelines. Get off your high horse DigitalC and don't make threats. They're unbecoming. Orange Marlin Talk• Contributions 03:05, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Reminds me of a classic (if base) pickup line beginning, "That dress looks becoming on you." You know the rest. Antelan talk  03:17, 28 April 2008 (UTC)