User talk:Anthony Staunton/Archive 1

Victoria Cross
There is a discussion at the moment on the best way to describe the award of the Victoria Cross for New Zealand to Bill Apiata on the Talk:Victoria Cross page. If you would like to share your views on the matter, you would be most welcome. Thankyou Woodym555 13:35, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

VC suggestions
I have replied on the talk page with some suggestions. Your input would be appreciated. Woody (talk) 16:29, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

VC talk page
By the way Anthony, you should never refactor or remove another editors comments from talkpages as you did with this edit. I know it looks untidy but we need to see how things have developed. I am working on implementing the suggestions now but am having trouble with the threading on the talk page. Woody (talk) 12:34, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I have now implemented the changes from the talkpage. I edited them for some grammar and technical fixes with wiki markup. Let me know if you see a problem. Thanks again for all your work on this. Woody (talk) 13:44, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
 * My apologies for removing comments. I was unaware of the protocol but I now appreciate why it was inappropriate. Thank you very much for your assistance. I am pleased to accept corrections to typos, grammer and technical fixes with wiki markup.--Anthony Staunton (talk) 15:14, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
 * No problem at all, I didn't think you would be aware of all the protocols which is why I left you the note. Some people can be quite tempestuous over it though, in this case, it seemed fairly ok to do it, and I have no problem with it so I haven't restored and threaded the comments. Thanks again for all your input. If you ever need any help, you know where my talkpage is. Regards. Woody (talk) 00:20, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

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MC
If you look closely at the url for a supplement and a straight issue you will see that they have different parameters. Within the template LondonGazette to get this change to occur you need to set the parameter supp=yes to get the correctly formatted url (and if you don't do this then the link won't work). This also adds the text (Supplement) after the issue number, possibly this is redundant, but it would be better to discuss this on the template talk page, rather than between ourselves here. Sorry about the page number - I don't know what happened there, I've fixed it now.

As to the dates, for reasons best known to itself, when something was originally published as a Supplement, the Gazette website indexes it under the date of the previous issue. If you search on the issue number you can see that the date is given as 20 October 1980, and if you open up the pdf, the navigation pane at the top of the screen also gives that date. If you search by date] on 21 October 1980, all the results relate to Issue 48347, not 48346. In some circumstances I've got round this by writing something like "published in a supplement to the London Gazette of date1 (dated date2), but that doesn't really work in this case.

If you look at the parameters which are used to create the url, you can see that the Gazette website itself does not really use the date at all, everything is driven by Issue number (which is of course unique), and page number (normally unique within a year, except for early issues, and Honours list supplements), so it's the issue number that really drives things (plus of course many supplements can be published on the same day, although the page numbering deals with that to some extent). Hope this clears things up a bit for you. David Underdown (talk) 09:56, 27 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the explanation and for fixing the page number.
 * I now understand why (Supplement) is after the issue number.
 * It is redundant and I agree it should be discussed on the template talk page.


 * I am keen to understand how to create a link but I am not across it yet. The LG has had a date problem since day one of being online so I understand why the wrong date is used in the link. However 20 October 1980 should not appear in the footnote since the date at the top of the actual page is 21 October 1980. Does 20 October 1980 after the link need to appear in the published footnote or can it be suppressed and that 21 October 1980 appear between the gazette number and the page number. I would much rather have 21 October 1980 and no link than a link if the price for the link is an incorrect date.--Anthony Staunton (talk) 14:30, 27 February 2008 (UTC)


 * It is (arguably) incorrect, after all it's a supplemetn to the issue published on the date given, but as things stand it's the date which would actually find the information on the gazette website, search on the date printed on the Gazette and you won't actually find what you are looking for. If you have the isue numebr, the date is irrelevant anyway, and you could in fact put whatever you liked there without actually breaking anything.  To some extent it's merely the convention I've adopted in adding many, many references to Gazettes over the past few months.  The dating is always a bit weird in the Gazette anyway, New Year's Honours list is always published at the end of December, but awards are date 1 Jan.  In fact I suppose that the issue over dating is themain use of putting (Supplement) in, it warns the reader that the date quoted is that of the original issue, not the date the supplement was printed.  David Underdown (talk) 14:41, 27 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree with most of what you say. I am not disputing that the link needs the date of the gazette rather than the date of the supplement. What I am questioning is why publish the date of the gazette after the link icon. To find the page required all you need to do is activate the link icon. When the link icon is activated the reader sees the date of the supplement and page number. So I would like a footnote to reflect what the reader sees when the link icon opens the page: London Gazette, supplement (if consensus is that it is necessary), date of the supplement, page number plus the link icon.--Anthony Staunton (talk) 11:07, 28 February 2008 (UTC)


 * But they do see the date I have given in the navigation section over the actual pdf document. To some extent either the date or the issue number is redundant, but what we are trying to do is give the reader as much information as possible in the event that the direct link breaks.  there are still a number of articles on wikipedia that contain links to the old version of the Gazette website (it was revamped in October last year) - and the same thing could easily happen again.  Using the template hopefully means we can fix all the references using it centrally.  Note that date is actaully an optional parameter, we don't need to give it in Wikipedia at all because the gazette website is actually driven entirely by the issue and page numbers.  David Underdown (talk) 12:02, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the patience. Your have been most helpful in allowing me to focus on what I want: London Gazette, supplement (if consensus is that it is necessary), date of the supplement, page number plus the link icon. However, to continue my argument I need to better understand both the template and the link. I think I need to play in the sandbox.--Anthony Staunton (talk) 23:08, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

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Useful resource
Anthony, you may be already of this, The National Archives has put British Army WWII recommendations for honours and awards (including those for Australians serving under British command) onlie, and they can be searched here http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/browse-refine.asp?CatID=22&searchType=browserefine&pagenumber=1&query=*&queryType=1 although it will cost £3.50 to download a pdf of the original documentation. I looked at couple for VCs earlier on today followign the discussion on the VC for Australia, and for the VC it also includes the necessary eyewitness statements and other supporting information. David Underdown (talk) 15:09, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for this. I was aware it was online and I have accessed the files in person at the TNA. I hope to spend a day there in February 2009 but would love to spend several weeks.Anthony Staunton (talk) 16:27, 27 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I sometimes wish my job gave me more chance to get invovled with original files, rather than things like the PRONOM technical registry, but if there's anythign I might be abel to help with in advance of your vist, do let me know. David Underdown (talk) 09:30, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Fishing for comments
Hi there Anthony, given your interest on Victoria Cross articles, would you mind looking over List of Crimean War Victoria Cross recipients. It is currently a Featured list candidate (found at Featured list candidates/List of Crimean War Victoria Cross recipients). Any comments on its accuracy, or on how to improve it would be appreciated. Thanks. Woody (talk) 16:32, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Very much appreciated, I have amended the list and left replies on the talkpage. Thanks, regards. Woody (talk) 19:29, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

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VC recipients discussion
Hi there Anthony, I thought you might be interested in this discussion about the recipients by nationality lists. Any input you have would be great. To be honest, I have been uneasy about them for a while, hence why I moved on to the more easily defined lists such as the conflict ones. I also hope you noticed today's front page article. If you are around the wiki today it would be helpful if you could keep an eye on it as main page articles tend to be hit hard with misinformation and or vandalism. Thanks and best regards, Woody (talk) 01:17, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Woody, thanks for the alerts. I made a number of changes to the VCFA page before I read your message. I would have held off otherwise. I changed the heading retrospecive awards to belated awards since all awards are retrospective. Although the Hansard references were correct, the content needed to be reworked. I hope it is now more logical. The link to the 2001 ALP platform seems broken. Anthony Staunton (talk) 05:13, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm afraid I changed it back without realising who it was who had changed it. I take your point, but it seems to me that the essence of the matter is that the proposed awards (significantly) predate the creation of the propsed award.  Retrospecitve aplies to that, rather than the awards themselves (and you seem to be quoted saying retrospective yourself..). David Underdown (talk) 17:32, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

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VCs by Nationality
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VC medal sales
I don't know whether you have seen my reply on the VC discussion page but I thought I would give you a bump on here. Essentially, feel free to go ahead and edit the page to what you discussed on the talkpage. I don't want to be seen to take the credit for your edits and I agree with what you have said. You have the best understanding of the issues at this point so you would be the best to edit it.

Also, do you have any further information on the Netley VC? QARANC's website seems to be a bit confused about whether it was the "first VC" or a prototype. Thanks, all the best, Woody (talk) 17:56, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the alert. I will have a quick look now. There is information in Crook on Netley which I will scan for you later today. It is 1.20 am as I write this. Anthony Staunton (talk) 14:20, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

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VC for Australia again
Anthony, a few questions have come up at the VC for Australia page which meant that I just wanted to double-check that it's true to say that all original VCs received by Australians were presented to them (or next of kin) by the Governor-General or the reigning monarch? David Underdown (talk) 13:16, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

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OzVC2
FYI: Your opinion is solicited at Talk:List of Australian Victoria Cross recipients. Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 04:47, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

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