User talk:Anto Ata

Welcome!
Hello, Anto Ata, and welcome to Wikipedia!&#32;Thank you for your contributions.

I noticed that one of the first articles you edited was Nadim Asfar, which appears to be dealing with a topic with which you may have a conflict of interest. In other words, you may find it difficult to write about that topic in a neutral and objective way, because you are, work for, or represent, the subject of that article.&#32;Your recent contributions may have already been undone for this very reason.

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on talk pages using four tildes ( ~ ); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place  before the question. Again, welcome! —C.Fred (talk) 20:07, 29 April 2018 (UTC)

April 2018
Hello, I'm C.Fred. I wanted to let you know that one or more of your recent contributions to Nadim Asfar have been undone because they appeared to be promotional. Advertising and using Wikipedia as a "soapbox" are against Wikipedia policy and not permitted; Wikipedia articles should be written objectively, using independent sources, and from a neutral perspective. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about Wikipedia. Thank you. —C.Fred (talk) 20:08, 29 April 2018 (UTC)

Hello, Fred. The previous version of the page had many mistakes as well as information which the artist, the person this article is about, wishes to either update, correct or remove, apart from updated info that needed to be added. I personally don't see how the text that I have added is promotional.

What do you see as promotional in this presentation:

"His artistic approach is deeply influenced by the many questions raised by the language and technique of photography. Having trained in still and moving imagery at the Académie des Beaux-Arts in Beirut and the École Nationale Louis Lumière in Paris, today Nadim Asfar creates works that explore place and time: where the intimacy of enclosed spaces and the intimacy of the outside world come together, a multi-layered universe. He reveals, simultaneously, layers both visual and acoustic, poetic, aesthetic, philosophical, anthropological, and geographical. An empirical photographer and filmmaker with an atypical background, Nadim Asfar was influenced by his time at the École des Hautes Etudes en Sciences Sociales in Paris (2011-2014) where he studied art and language. There, he honed his taste for research and for mixing up different disciplines. His work has been shown at many international institutions and events, including Paris Photo, the New Museum in New York, the Kunst-Werk Institute in Berlin, the Institut du Monde Arabe in Paris and the International Documentary Festival in Marseille. Part of his current activities include an extensive project that addresses the intricacies of Landscape in Lebanon, a first part of which was shown in the 2016 solo exhibition, "Where I end and you begin" at Galerie Tanit, Beirut. A work that aims to convey a sense of esthetic, historical, geological and political complexity of the studied landscape through photography, film and publication. He has recently been working with the medium of book-making, conceptualising and designing books that express in published form projects both old and new.

Please pin-point instead of cutting out everything.

Meanwhile, I've updated the objective info (exhibitions, publications, awards, etc.) that are just neutral facts, hoping they wont again be removed!

Anto Ata (talk) 20:33, 29 April 2018 (UTC)Antoine


 * The tone of it is promotional. It feels more at place at his website than at an encyclopedia article written about him. That's why Wikipedia articles should be written by independent parties and not at the request of the subject. —C.Fred (talk) 21:06, 29 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I agree with C.Fred. The above is chock-full of vacuous puffery. "His artistic approach is deeply influenced by the many questions raised by the language and technique of photography." - what does that even mean? What questions, specifically, are raised by the language of photography? What is the language of photography? How do those questions, whatever they may be, influence his approach, and why is this something specific to Asfar compared to other photographers? "Asfar creates works that explore place and time" - what does that mean? How exactly do his works "explore time"? I expect he doesn't construct time machines. "He reveals, simultaneously, layers both visual and acoustic, poetic, aesthetic, philosophical, anthropological, and geographical." - again, what does that even mean? What anthropological revelations has he made? "he honed his taste for research" - how, exactly? How did his taste for research differ after honing from his taste before? And what independent source confirms his change in taste for research? Same for his "honed taste for mixing up disciplines". "An empirical photographer and filmmaker with an atypical background" - what would be a typical background? How is Asfar's different? "that express in published form projects both old and new" - what projects, his own? What does it mean to "express a project"? That's every single paragraph of the above text, and it's not even an exhaustive list of problems. All of it sounds great but conveys no specific information. It's all unreferenced, too. Wikipedia is not the place for Asfar to promote his view of himself and his works. Huon (talk) 22:54, 29 April 2018 (UTC)
 * One possible solution is identifying one missing fact (or one mistake) at a time, and identify the best way to put it. --Gryllida (talk) 23:29, 29 April 2018 (UTC)

Answer
Well, when independent parties write things that are not accurate, incomplete and not updated, it is normal that the person the article is about asks for changes.

Should he have just kept looking at the article, hoping that maybe one day, someone will independently take the initiative to intervene on the article and correct it? That’s not logical.

And in any case, I am an independent party, it is not Asfar himself who’s doing the changes, I don’t even work with him, I’m just a friend of his he asked to intervene. He sent me links of his works (that I just didn’t have time to introduce as references, something I was planning to do today) and I compiled something. He didn’t even write any bit of it himself.

I will revise the text I’ve written, thank you all for pinpointing the problems. I understand better what’s wrong with it…

Just to be clear: it never was the intention to promote Asfar, he has a website and sufficient press coverage and art representation not to need a few lines on a Wikipedia article to promote his work. It was just a matter of making the article more accurate and updated.

In any case, as I’ve said, I accept the critiques and will rewrite it completely. I guess I’m overly used to work with artists and authors, which caused me to use a tone and writing style that is not appropriate for Wikipedia.

Huon, though your comments are useful, I just wish you had adopted a slightly less aggressive and less contemptuous tone. No need for passive-aggressive mockery and professorial speech in dealing with someone who’s obviously doing this for the first time.

Thank again anyways for the three of you. Hoping my next intervention will work out.

Anto Ata (talk) 09:38, 30 April 2018 (UTC)Anto Ata