User talk:Aoghac2z/Archive 5

Distribution of the Romani Lenguage
Hello, I am trying to change the destribution of the Romani Lenguage because it is not true. I look the surce and saw that the number of speakers of some countries was different so I changed it, but you rolled it back (probably because you think i vandaliced it, but i didnt, I just changed it with the right numbers from the same surce). Thank you and Im sorry for my bad English. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.173.156.70 (talk) 13:29, 24 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks. You're absolutely right. Your edits do reflect correctly what is mentioned in the source. Cheers.  Signed &#124;  Aoghac2z  &#124;  13:44, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Reply: Babel box for Konkani
Greetings fellow Konkani!!,

Thank you for reverting the templates back to English. For the record, those were in the South Canara Dialect; I am a Mangalorean. The view history part of those templates gave me the impression that they were created and forgotten; hence in English.

The idea behind the [|Babel language templates] is to suggest to another user a users proficiency in a particular language. Under this logic, it is only fair that the templates be translated into Konkani.

I suggest we call for a discussion on the verbiage to be used in the templates. I shall crank start the discussion on the [|Konkani Babelbox templates] page. I request you to suggest some phraseology there.

I see that you are quite proficient in written Konkani, shown by your discernment in choosing between ए and ऎ; a rare observance and something which I have been trying to get the Konkanosphere into practising.

मॊग आसॊ, Imp er ium Caelestis  03:12, 1 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the reply. Glad to know you're of Mangalorean descent... although based on your written description of the babel box, I figured you're probably North Kanarese. You are absolutely right regarding the idea behind the babel boxes. However, Konkani is not a standardized language and therefore it is a daunting task to capture an expression in one particular phrase that could be common to all dialects of Konkani. If you could dig the history of those boxes, you will realize that many people have tried to translate in their own native dialects whch have ultimately ended up being reverted by others (those to whom that particular dialect is not native). To prevent this kind of edit warring and reverts, it is ideal to keep it in English for now. Starting a discussion is a good idea.. I'm all for it. It would be good to invite all the Konkani Wikipedians to contribute and hopefully concur on a common expression for the Babel boxes.


 * I am indeed proficient in written Konkani and am certainly aware of different vowels. Thank you for your observation. However, the only place where Konkani is taught in a standardized and official form is Goa... and the sad truth is that they do not employ the ऎ vowel there. I realize you've been trying to educate other Konkani Wikipedians about the fine nuances in these vowels, but Goan Konkani remains the only standardized Konkani, and therefore it alone stands a chance to be documented on Wikipedia, as opposed to other dialects of Konkani. Wikipedia is a place where established and standardized facts are recorded. It is not a medium to perform original research or foster ideas leaning towards research. Your feedback will be greatly apreciated.  Signed &#124;  Aoghac2z  &#124;  03:44, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

You are right insofar as there exists a standardised Konkani. Let me share with you the Goa Daman & Diu Official Language Act, 1987 on Feb.4, 1987, by which the Antruz dialect of the Konkani language in Devanagri script was declared as the Official Language of the State of Goa. I have been given to understand that this dialect is unintelligible to most Goans.

Wikipedia language codes grew out of Ethnologue coded and cover thousands of languages. Nevertheless, Wikipedia accords the same status to iso-coded as well as non iso-coded languages. For the record, Canara Konkani has a separate iso code, kex. All in all the question, of only Standard Konkani being documented, should not perturb us. On a separate note, Konkani has been accorded minority language status in Karnataka and Kerala and Konkani is taught as a subject as well.

Our primary concerns as Konkani Wikipedians, I suggest, should be:
 * 1) Konkani (ISO 639-2 kok) currently has three codes serving it:
 * ISO 639-3 gom: Referred to as Goan Konkani.
 * ISO 639-3 knn: Referred to as Konkani (independent language).
 * ISO 639-3 kex: Referred to as Kanara Konkani.


 * Konkani Wikipedia, which is in the incubator, uses both gom and knn. The gom code is further sub-divided into gom, gom/dn and gom/kn for Roman, Nagari and Kannada scripts respectively.


 * 1) Grammatically incorrect and misspelt Konkani is written in a variety of mutually unintelligible scripts. I have seen articles where टुका is written in place of तुका and म्हणटा in place of म्हणता.

I am sure you share my agony. Let us at least give a head-start by translating the templates. That might, god willing, ultimately help in getting Konkani Wikipedia out of the incubator.

देव बरॆं करॊ, Imp er ium Caelestis  05:10, 1 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes, I do agree that the language codes should be merged into one. And yes, I do agree that there should some sort of standardization regarding written Konkani rules. However, that endeavor lies in the hands of literary organizations and sahitya akademis to unify the language. The manner in which Konkani exists today is indeed in a sorry state - scattered across multiple dialects and scripts. That being said, Wikipedia is NOT and should NOT be used as a medium to bring about unification among these scattered pieces. The purpose of Wikipedia is simply to record facts collect from reliable sources - and it stops at that.
 * And yes, I am certainly aware that Konkani is taught in South Kanara schools in both Kannada and Devanagari scripts. Also, I've contributed my bit to your Babel discussion.  Signed &#124;  Aoghac2z  &#124;  07:03, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

your Babel box suggestions are impressive. Kudos!! I have moved all template discussions to the discussion page of their respective templates. Imp er ium Caelestis  12:39, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

कोंकणी or कॊंकणि??
Konkani is written in the Kannada script as ಕೊಂಕಣಿ and in the Malayalam script as കൊംകണി. Both these can, in turn, be transliterated in Nagari as कॊंकणि and not कोंकणी, which would be ಕೋಂಕಣೀ in the Kannada script and കോംകണീ in the Malayalam script. As far as I know, Konkani has been a ह्रस्वांत (ending in short vowels) language unlike Marathi, which is a दीर्घांत (ending in long vowels) language. e.g. आम्मि (we), तुम्मि (you all), दोणि (boat), पॆसकाति (knife).

soliciting your comments. Imp er ium Caelestis  11:49, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Need Your Help
Mate, Due to a covert edit war against Canara Konkani by Nijgoykar I have started a separate page for Kanara Konkani. please go through discussions on my userpage and you will see that Nijgoykar has been an unrelenting jingoist. Please feel free to add data to the page. I am planning to enlist Canara christians and Nawayati wikipedians too. regards, Imp er ium Caelestis  13:28, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Reply: Using Reliable Sources
The mentioned websites are of the Indian census department, two e-books of Maffei and the Vishwa Konkani website, which comes under the Govt. of Karnataka. Could you please specify which sites from the addendum could be termed "questionable"

Imp er ium Caelestis  06:16, 3 March 2011 (UTC)