User talk:Appietas

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Your edits
Hi Appietas

I've just removed some stuff from the beginning of the article Publius Clodius Pulcher - it really wasn't appropriate there, as I say in my edit summary (and please start using edit summaries), you need to read WP:LEAD. In fact, you really need to read the Manual of Style and WP:How to write a great article. Plus, with respect, WP:OR. You obviously know a great deal about Roman history but I think you need some help in communicating it within Wikipedia guidelines and polices. Anyway, I think you will make a better editor if you read at least some of my suggestions -- let me know what you think after you've read them. Thanks. dougweller (talk) 21:15, 20 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi Doug


 * I'd agree I should be better informed on Wiki edit policies, and will read the pages you've indicated. However I think Clodius' importance merits rather more than a couple of lines introduction, and probably should include a short-list of his principal public offices, the dates of which are known and uncontroversial. I don't mind if my intro. blurb is removed, but someone should add something more substantial (the Wiki page says up to 4 paragraphs).


 * Additionally, it is certain that he was born 93 or earlier owing to his praetura candidacy for 53, and the intercalation of the pre-Julian calendar is also known exactly back to 57 BC, and therefore the exact Julian date of Clodius' death in December 53 BC is known. It is erroneous and misleading to equate pre-Julian calendar dates with dates in the Julian era BC.  I don't see how persisting with known errors enhances the topic.  See the good Wiki article Roman Calendar. . Appietas (talk) 22:59, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the response. I've put back a para, slightly tweaked. The rest of the stuff, properly sourced, should go wherever it is most appropriate but I think it is too detailed for the lead. I think the para I put back might be sourced also, it's got opinion in it and by our polices/guidelines it has to be the opinion of a reliable source, right? [Appius Claudius Pulcher (consul 54 BC)]] has some similar problems. It reads bittily for a start, and again some of the stuff in the lead should be integrated into the article, so the prophecy of his death is in the appropriate place, etc. Look at some of the other articles to see how they handle the sort of lists of titles, etc -- obviously stuff needs to be accurate, sourced, etc but it also needs to look right, flow, whatever. I'm away tomorrow but when I come back I'll try to find some good models if there are any, that is! dougweller (talk) 19:59, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Getting into arguments over the exact date under the Julian or Gregorian calendar is useless and a colossal waste of time. Wikipedia is a general-purpose encyclopedia, not an academic publication. All of the information in historical articles should be the same as what you would find in an ordinary book, and the information should be relatively uncontroversial. The uselessness of this "debate" is personified in the arguments over Cicero's birthday. I don't care what website you can link to. No one knows for certain that Cicero was born on January 3 by any calendar. Whatever contemporary book this date was based off of has been transcribed countless times over the centuries by hundreds of scribes. And no one can pinpoint to absolute certainty, to the day, what that date translated to in another calendar. I don't care how certain your professor thinks he is. This is an utterly arcane science, and that type of precision is impossible. Maybe his calculations are right, maybe they aren't. That is a purely academic question, not an ordinary, uncontroversial fact that should be shown on Wikipedia. If most books say that an event occurred on a date, then that is the date we use. We don't use your own opinion based off of some obscure professor's calculations. RomanHistorian (talk) 00:29, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

So say yourself. Full of error and assumption once more. What really matters in all this is your refusal to accept any reasonable compromise, e. g. Cicero born about January 106 BC, to which nobody could object. But beyond that, my removal of the terrible misinformation about Cicero not being Roman in the true sense, and the deep affect this had on his career. Which is bogus and seriously misleading nonsense. Additionally my rewrite cited the sources relevant both to himself, and his town. All of this likewise removed by yourself to resume the bogus tripe which is unsourced, because its fantasy. This is the way you operate, and it says all that needs to be said about what you are. . Appietas (talk) 10:23, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

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Roman edits
Many of your edits to Roman articles (such as Publius Clodius Pulcher and First Mithridatic War) make the articles extremely difficult to read. They are messy, disorganized and include a lot of material that is too specialized even for wikipedia. Quoting contemporary historians in the original Greek, for example, is by no means helpful. Almost no one on wikipedia can read Greek, and even fewer need that to learn about the topic. I think some of the information is useful, which is why I don't think the best option is to outright undo the edits. But these articles are nearly unreadable for the average reader, and someone needs to address this. RomanHistorian (talk) 00:17, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * The Mithridatic War pieces were virtually empty, so I threw in some stuff to edit properly later from various files I maintain. Obviously the Greek would not remain in a finished article, and I have proceeded differently in the 3rd Mith War article. However I can see its all going to be a colossal waste of time with a creature like yourself tracking down everything I write for removal while proudly holding fast to the significantly ill informed dribble included by yourself.  Enough already. Don't pretend you're some positive influence.  Just very creepy.  .Appietas (talk) 10:31, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

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Lucius Valerius Flaccus (praetor 63 BC)
Hi, Appietas. I stumbled on your draft for this L. Valerius Flaccus with a great deal of relief, as I had been intending to work on such an article and now feel free of the responsbility. (I've done articles on his father and uncle, and the other L. Valerius Flaccus who was consul in 100 and princeps senatus in 86).

I wanted to ask you about your source on the three-man delegation to Transalpina. I recall reading about this mission, but I didn't know they were the ones responsible for bringing about the declaration of Ariovistus as Friend of the Roman People. Would it be asking too much of a favor to have you drop a note on my talk page about your sources for this particular point? You'd save me a lot of time and trouble for something I'm working on.

I'm really looking forward to reading the finished article, as what you have already clarifies some things I've been interested in with this figure. I wrote a hasty little article on Decimus Laelius, who prosecuted Flaccus; the secondary source I have there argues that Flaccus was known to be guilty, even though he had the influence to get himself acquitted, and that this is why he never advanced to the consulship — a failure that is otherwise hard to explain. This is M.C. Alexander, The Case for the Prosecution in the Ciceronian Era (2002), pp. 80–97, with a limited preview online through Google Books. This trial, as you no doubt know, attracts scholarly attention in part because of the light (or not) it sheds on Jewish relations with Rome. A worthwhile article on the subject is Anthony J. Marshall, “Flaccus and the Jews of Asia (Cicero Pro Flacco 28.67–69)," Phoenix 29 (1975) 139–154. Cynwolfe (talk) 06:22, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

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Lucius Valerius Flaccus again
Hi, Appietas. I notice that you haven't worked on the article for Lucius Valerius Flaccus (praetor 63 BC) since June. I'm keen to get that posted, since I link to this figure often, and another editor has been going around changing my redlinks to Lucius Valerius Flaccus (praetor 63 BC) to link instead to the subsection of the Lucius Valerius Flaccus page, which is not what I would prefer. As I said above, I admire the work you've done on this article. I'm wondering whether you've gotten tired of it, or frustrated, or have no time to move ahead with it. If you feel like this is something you want to develop in your own distinctive way, and then post in its entirety, please let me know. I absolutely do not want to hijack your article, and I have plenty of other things to work on. If, however, you're at the point of saying "why did I ever start this?" and don't have plans to continue, I would be honored to finish the article for you, and would try to keep as closely to its spirit and outline as possible. I wrote the following articles on related Valerii Flacci, if you'd like to see whether or not my approach could serve your own: Lucius Valerius Flaccus (princeps senatus 86 BC), Gaius Valerius Flaccus (consul 93 BCE), Lucius Valerius Flaccus (suffect consul 86 BC). Also related articles on Decimus Laelius and C. Appuleius Decianus. Oh, I also addressed an inquiry to the Help Desk regarding the proper etiquette here, a link to which I provide for the sake of transparency here. I will also email you, as suggested there. Cynwolfe (talk) 17:18, 18 October 2009 (UTC)


 * It's a pleasure to hear from you, and oddly enough, I was just thinking about this article again a day or two ago. I'm aware of some discussions you've had on talk pages, and completely understand what you said about contributing. I started writing articles to force myself to organize my research for fiction projects; I can only imagine the frustration if I were engaged in professional scholarship. Because modern English biographies don't exist for some of the minor figures I write about, I often find it difficult to produce any kind of coherent narrative without filling in the interpretive gaps. Or to put it another way, when you put the material together, certain connections emerge. I like your work because it was written by a thinking human, but the ideal here seems increasingly robotic, as if articles should be no more than mechanical lists of facts. Anything interesting or provocative must be purged.
 * I'm particularly interested in the Valerii Flacci of the 1st century BC, and their ability to flummox scholars who want to slot them into "optimates" or "populares"; like the Licinii Crassi, they call the categories into question. (Or maybe I just think that because I live in the U.S., where "political moderate" is a species facing extinction.) Also the connection between Gaius's governorship in Gaul, and his nephew Lucius's dealings with the Gauls in the late 60s, and why Lucius seems to have had nothing to do with Caesar, though in regard to Gaul and Caesar's intentions there, there's an obvious link through the Helvian Valerii that Caesar's at pains to point out by mentioning Gaius's grant of citizenship to the family. If your work becomes available, it would be very useful for me to read it. Cynwolfe (talk) 12:20, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

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Flaccus again
I originally left this note:

''::I understood from our earlier discussion that you were disinclined to finish the Flaccus article. I'm thinking that with your permission, I'd like to move it to my own user space to work on it. If you've changed your mind, please feel free to move it back to yours. Cynwolfe (talk) 00:58, 19 August 2010 (UTC)''

After I thought about it, I decided that a better course might be to edit it where it is, in your user space, and please feel free to revert it all. I want to make sure the eventual article's edit history properly credits your role in its creation. Cynwolfe (talk) 01:05, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

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The Bugle: Issue LXXXV, April 2013
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The Bugle: Issue LXXXVI, May 2013
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The Bugle: Issue LXXXVII, June 2013
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The Bugle: Issue LXXXVIII, July 2013
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The Bugle: Issue LXXXIX, August 2013
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WikiProject Military history coordinator election
Greetings from WikiProject Military history! As a member of the project, you are invited to take part in our annual project coordinator election, which will determine our coordinators for the next twelve months. If you wish to cast a vote, please do so on the election page by 23:59 (UTC) on 28 September! Kirill [talk] 16:36, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LXXXXX, September 2013
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The Bugle: Issue XCI, October 2013
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The Bugle: Issue XCII, November 2013
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The Bugle: Issue XCIII, December 2013
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The Bugle: Issue XCIV, January 2014
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The Bugle: Issue XCV, February 2014
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The Bugle: Issue XCVI, March 2014
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The Bugle: Issue XCVII, April 2014
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The Bugle: Issue XCVIII, May 2014
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The Bugle: Issue XCIX, June 2014
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The Bugle: Issue C, July 2014
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The Bugle: Issue CI, August 2014
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The Bugle: Issue CII, September 2014
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WikiProject Military history coordinator election
Greetings from WikiProject Military history! As a member of the project, you are invited to take part in our annual project coordinator election, which will determine our coordinators for the next twelve months. If you wish to cast a vote, please do so on the election page by 23:59 (UTC) on 28 September! Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 22:15, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CIII, October 2014
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The Bugle: Issue CIII, October 2014, Redux
NOTE: This replaces the earlier October 2014 Bugle message, which had incorrect links -- please ignore/delete the previous message. Thank uou! The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 01:52, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CIV, November 2014
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Nominations for the Military history Wikiproject's Historian and Newcomer of the Year Awards are now open!
The Military history Wikiproject has opened nominations for the Military historian of the year and Military history newcomer of the year. Nominations will be accepted until 13 December at 23:59 GMT, with voting to begin at 0:00 GMT 14 December. The voting will conclude on 21 December. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 01:35, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CV, December 2014
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The Bugle: Issue CVI, January 2015
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The Bugle: Issue CVII, February 2015
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The Bugle: Issue CVIII, March 2015
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The Bugle: Issue CIX, April 2015
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The Bugle: Issue CX, May 2015
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The Bugle: Issue CXI, June 2015
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The Bugle: Issue CXII, July 2015
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The Bugle: Issue CXIII, August 2015
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The Bugle: Issue CXIV, September 2015
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WikiProject Military history coordinator election
Greetings from WikiProject Military history! As a member of the project, you are invited to take part in our annual project coordinator election. If you wish to cast a vote, please do so on the election page by 23:59 (UTC) on 29 September. Yours, Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 05:21, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXV, October 2015
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The Bugle: Issue CXVI, November 2015
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ArbCom elections are now open!
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:34, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXVII, December 2015
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The Bugle: Issue CXVIII, January 2016
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The Bugle: Issue CXIX, February 2016
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The Bugle: Issue CXX, March 2016
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The Bugle: Issue CXXI, April 2016
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The Bugle: Issue CXXII, May–June 2016
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The Bugle: Issue CXXIII, July 2016
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The Bugle: Issue CXXIV, August 2016
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The Bugle: Issue CXXV, September 2016
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The Bugle: Issue CXXVI, October 2016
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The Bugle: Issue CXXVII, November 2016
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The Bugle: Issue CXXVIII, December 2016
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The Bugle: Issue CXXIX, January 2017
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The Bugle: Issue CXXX, February 2017
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The Bugle: Issue CXXXI, March 2017
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The Bugle: Issue CXXXII, April 2017
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The Bugle: Issue CXXXIII, May 2017
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The Bugle: Issue CXXXV, July 2017
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The Bugle: Issue CXXXVI, August 2017
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The Bugle: Issue CXXXVII, September 2017
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The Bugle: Issue CXXXVIII, October 2017
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The Bugle: Issue CXXXIX, November 2017
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The Bugle: Issue CXL, December 2017
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User group for Military Historians
Greetings,

"Military history" is one of the most important subjects when speak of sum of all human knowledge. To support contributors interested in the area over various language Wikipedias, we intend to form a user group. It also provides a platform to share the best practices between military historians, and various military related projects on Wikipedias. An initial discussion was has been done between the coordinators and members of WikiProject Military History on English Wikipedia. Now this discussion has been taken to Meta-Wiki. Contributors intrested in the area of military history are requested to share their feedback and give suggestions at Talk:Discussion to incubate a user group for Wikipedia Military Historians.

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 11:30, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXLI, January 2018
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The Bugle: Issue CXLII, February 2018
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The Bugle: Issue CXLIII, March 2018
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The Bugle: Issue CXLIIV, April 2018
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The Bugle: Issue CXLIV, May 2018
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The Bugle: Issue CXLVI, June 2018
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The Bugle: Issue CXLVII, July 2018
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The Bugle: Issue CXLVIII, August 2018
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The Bugle: Issue CXLIX, September 2018
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The Bugle: Issue CL, October 2018
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The Bugle: Issue CLI, November 2018
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The Bugle: Issue CLII, December 2018
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The Bugle: Issue CLIII, January 2019
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The Bugle: Issue CLIV, February 2019
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The Bugle: Issue CLV, March 2019
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The Bugle: Issue CLVI, April 2019
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The Bugle: Issue CLVII, May 2019
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The Bugle: Issue CLVIII, June 2019
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The Bugle: Issue CLIX, July 2019
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The Bugle: Issue CLX, August 2019
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The Bugle: Issue CLX, August 2019
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The Bugle: Issue CLXI, September 2019
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The Bugle: Issue CLXII, October 2019
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The Bugle: Issue CLXIII, November 2019
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The Bugle: Issue CLXIV, December 2019
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The Bugle: Issue CLXV, January 2020
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The Bugle: IssueICLXVI, February 2020
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The Bugle: Issue CLXVII, March 2020
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The Bugle: Issue CLXVIII, April 2020
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The Bugle: Issue CLXIX, May 2020
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The Bugle: Issue CLXX, June 2020
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The Bugle: Issue CLXXI, July 2020
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The Bugle: Issue CLXXII, August 2020
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The Bugle: Issue Issue CLXXIII, September 2020
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The Bugle: Issue CLXXIV, October 2020
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The Bugle: Issue CLXXV, November 2020
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The Bugle: Issue CLXXVI, December 2020
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The Bugle: Issue CLXXVII, January 2021
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The Bugle: Issue CLXXVIII, February 2021
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The Bugle: Issue CLXXVIII, February 2021
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The Bugle: Issue CLXXIX, March 2021
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April 2021 WikiProject Military History Reviewing Drive
Hey y'all, the April 2021 WikiProject Military History Reviewing Drive begins at 00:01 UTC on April 1, 2021 and runs through 23:59 UTC on April 31, 2021. Points can be earned through reviewing articles on the AutoCheck report, reviewing articles listed at WP:MILHIST/ASSESS, reviewing MILHIST-tagged articles at WP:GAN or WP:FAC, and reviewing articles submitted at WP:MILHIST/ACR. Service awards and barnstars are given for set points thresholds, and the top three finishers will receive further awards. To participate, sign up at WikiProject_Military_History/April 2021 Reviewing Drive and create a worklist at WikiProject Military history/April 2021 Reviewing Drive/Worklists (examples are given). Further details can be found at the drive page. Questions can be asked at the drive talk page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:27, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

April 2021 WikiProject Military History Reviewing Drive
Hey y'all, the April 2021 WikiProject Military History Reviewing Drive begins at 00:01 UTC on April 1, 2021 and runs through 23:59 UTC on April 31, 2021. Points can be earned through reviewing articles on the AutoCheck report, reviewing articles listed at WP:MILHIST/ASSESS, reviewing MILHIST-tagged articles at WP:GAN or WP:FAC, and reviewing articles submitted at WP:MILHIST/ACR. Service awards and barnstars are given for set points thresholds, and the top three finishers will receive further awards. To participate, sign up at WikiProject_Military_History/April 2021 Reviewing Drive and create a worklist at WikiProject Military history/April 2021 Reviewing Drive/Worklists (examples are given). Further details can be found at the drive page. Questions can be asked at the drive talk page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:08, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CLXXX, April 2021
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The Bugle: Issue CLXXXI, May 2021
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The Bugle: Issue CLXXXII, June 2021
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The Bugle: Issue CLXXXIII, July 2021
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The Bugle: Issue CLXXXIV, August 2021
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The Bugle: Issue CLXXXV, September 2021
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The Bugle: Issue CLXXXV, September 2021
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The Bugle: Issue CLXXV, October 2021
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The Bugle: Issue CLXXVI, November 2021
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The Bugle: Issue CLXXVII, December 2021
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The Bugle: Issue CLXXVIII, January 2022
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The Bugle: Issue CLXXVIV, February 2022
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The Bugle: Issue CLXXVII, March 2022
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The Bugle: Issue CLXXVIII, April 2022
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The Bugle: Issue CXCIII, May 2022
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The Bugle: Issue CXCIV, June 2022
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The Bugle: Issue CXCVI, July 2022
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The Bugle: Issue CXCVII, August 2022
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The Bugle: Issue CXCVIII, September 2022
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The Bugle: Issue CXCVIII, October 2022
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The Bugle: Issue CXCIX, November 2022
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The Bugle: Issue CC, December 2022
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The Bugle: Issue 201, January 2023
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The Bugle: Issue 202, February 2023
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The Bugle: Issue 203, March 2023
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The Bugle: Issue 204, April 2023
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The Bugle: Issue 205, May 2023
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The Bugle: Issue 205, May 2023
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The Bugle: Issue 206, June 2023
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The Bugle: Issue 207, July 2023
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The Bugle: Issue 208, August 2023
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The Bugle: Issue 209, September 2023
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The Bugle: Issue 210, October 2023
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